What's your 4yo's bedtime routine??

DD is 4.5 yo and her bedtime routine used to be really good but she has gotten quite bad and I dread putting her to bed. I'm due with #2 in July and I want this sorted so its one less thing I have to contend with along with a newborn and also the disturbance to a newborn she would cause.

So I'm interested to hear your toddlers bedtime routine that works??

Our DD has the following:
Approx 5.30 - dinner time.
Approx 6.00-6.15 - bath or shower time, after bath she gets dressed, hair done and may sit and watch a DVD or the iPad for awhile
Approx 7.30 - Brush teeth and into bed

We used to be able to get her to roll straight over and we'd pat her back for 5 minutes or so and then leave. We'd get a "night night, see you in the morning, i love you" and that was the end of it - we wouldn't see her till the next morning. NOW though she fights getting her teeth brushed to the point it's usually done with her in tears, refuses to roll over, tries every trick in the book to delay going to bed (nned to wee/poo, itchy leg, sore foot, need a drink etc), tries to get stories read (which we've also tried as part of the routine and is really just a way of her extending her awake time), we end up arguing with her to get her to just lay down now. At one stage we had her go into bed earlier with the iPad and she'd be allowed to watch TV in the dark for a while and then she'd fall asleep and we'd go in and take the iPad away - I could handle that but after awhile she just stayed awake later and later and then when we'd go and try to take the iPad she would cry and cry about it. The last week or so I've been trying to only go in for about 10 minutes and if she won't roll over or doesn't do as she is told I'm just leaving the room which results in her crying and sometimes screaming. I thought this approach may teach her that there are consequences if she doesn't lay down etc etc - Mummy is going out of the room... If she comes out of the room which she has done often we lock the safety gate which we've reinstalled on her bedroom door - this was put back on about 2 months ago are endless nights of her coming out often - we initially used it as a threat and that was enough and she'd stay in bed - now we are having to actually use it. She ends up getting into bed if I tell her she needs to be in bed and quiet for 10 minutes before I will come back into her room and then she generally just falls asleep and I unlock the gate so she can get out in the morning or if she needs to come into us during the night which is rare. I don't like this current process but she just won't lay down herself anymore and is pushing the boundaries. On a bad night we can get her into bed anywhere between 7.30 and 8.00 and by 9.30 even 10pm she is still awake and carrying on. We had a few nights were we got her into bed at 7pm and had her asleep by 8pm but i think they were just flukes at the time. I don't know why she fights it especially when I can see she is exhausted and very tired. She needs her sleep - has slept 12-13 hours at night since giving up day naps over a year ago and was even sleeping that when she was having a nap during the day - she is much easier and relaxed when she has had her sleep but very different when she's not had enough sleep.

We've tried "these are the rules when going to bed" kind of scenario and she'll happily recite them back to you but ignores them. We've tried story time. We've tried sticker charts. She already has 3 stuffed animals she sleeps with so all good on that front.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

We do exactly the same as you. The only difference is we also read a book in bed.

Good luck

If she wants stories read in bed could you get her to choose one or two, brush her teeth early (say 7:15) and then go to bed and read the stories so she's still ready to sleep at 7:30ish? Perhaps if you can make her understand that she gets her special stories then its sleep time she might be happier?

No suggestions sorry Hun. I could have exactly written your pot in regards to my 4 year old. I'm hoping its a stage she will grow out of. If she is still a wake by 10.30( I'm usually exhausted and completely over it by then), ill bring her in to my bed where she will fall asleep and dh will move her back to her bed. Hope you an find something that works for you. Xx

DD is 5, but we've been doing this way for a while.

6:00 dinner
6:30 or 7:00 bath/shower
7:30 bed with 2 stories

I know you've tried stories before but is it worth visiting them again? I find on nights when DD is particularly zonked, she will fall asleep as we read. Also, with regards TV/IPad play time, could it be that the bright light from that is affecting her ability to fall asleep even though she is so tired? They tend to recommend that last hour before anyone (kids and adults) go to bed be devoid of screen time.

Try letting her brush her teeth, with you just finishing it off for her? Maybe it's related to that and then the follow up antics aren't really about sleep.

No bright lights or noises outside the bedroom that could be distracting?

Could you try and review the routine with her involvement? Talk about how she would like to go to bed each night, ask her why she doesn't like going to bed? There could be something fairly simple?

Just throwing some ideas out there, hope you get it sorted soon, we've had bedtime issues in the past and it can be so frustrating at the end of the day when all you want is some alone time.

With my sons the way to get them to stay in their bed is after we read them some books then I saw goodnight and leave my husband in there. Our new routine is that he gets them to lay down, turns the lights out and he tells them a story (makes one up). Sometimes they request a story about certain things otherwise he tells them whatever comes to mind. We find it makes them to lay down & listen and calm down. It seems to work plus they get extra time with Dad.

Maybe she wants some extra attention and is acting up to make you give her some?? I would recommend no iPad before bed and maybe some special cuddles & a book then a story. Also when the baby comes he/she can come in and 'read books too' which is what we do with our baby. We hold him if he is asleep or lay him on the bed and they like including him in story time.

Good luck!

We also need to stay in the room with the boys until they are asleep about 80% of the time.
I will lie on the bed and talk with them, then they have a story each, lights out and my waiting begins.

I hate it, but short if them sleeping in my bed, its the only thing that works for us

I too would suggest no ipad after dinner. I think she wants extra time.

We do dinner at 5pm, bath around 6pm and then stories around 6:30 lights out at 7pm. I too lie with dd until she falls asleep.

We have also had increasing defiance about baths and teeth cleaning and lights out. It must be a stage. I would discourage too much iPad time. We have found it makes dd grumpy and difficult because she can't switch it off and wants more and more.

Books are less stimulating I think. You could also try sitting in her room and reading aloud from your own novel until she falls asleep. That's what my mum used to do.

I would avoid punishing her and locking her in her room because bed should be relaxing, not stressful.

Ditch the iPad before bed. We got our DS an iPod touch for Christmas and have learnt to let him use it sparingly as otherwise he'd be glued to it 24/7. Children tend to watch endless tv /computer etc and I think it does wire them up. All good in moderation but best not to use devices in wind down time

I say ditch the TV and iPad after bath. After 6:30 is quiet time in my house, though they get TV its in the night garden. Then at 7 brush teeth and bed. My 4 yr old started to try and extend bed time but we put out foot down. We read or tell two stories once she is in bed. Cuddle kiss and lights out leaving the room.

If she is silly at teeth time and takes to long then she gets one story.

If your 4 yr old is playing up for the iPad etc. I would ban it all together till they are doing what they are supposed to. It's a privilege to have such things. In our house there electronics are the first thing taken away for bad behavior. It works great.

I'm really interested to see the advice in this thread - because I am up several times in the night bfing, I have been playing iphone games or reading ebooks to keep me awake while DS feeds. But I've found that I often can't drop back to sleep afterwards, and have been wondering if there's something in the screen lights that affect my sleepiness. If I read a real paper book, I can usually drop off much more quickly again.

So if screen time affects me, an adult, that much, I can imagine how tv and ipad before bed/in bed might affect a 4 year old!

My only two questions are what time does she wake up? And is she getting enough mental and physical exercise during the day?
My DS goes to sleep at around 7.30 but he wakes at 5.50ish every day. He has just dropped about 30 mins from his old sleep habits (used to sleep at 7pm).
He is also a bit of a handful if he's had a day of little exercise (both brain and body).

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If she wants stories read in bed could you get her to choose one or two, brush her teeth early (say 7:15) and then go to bed and read the stories so she's still ready to sleep at 7:30ish? Perhaps if you can make her understand that she gets her special stories then its sleep time she might be happier?

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Chody: We've tried this before and some nights it worked and others it failed miserably. She isn't happy to just listen to the stories, she wants to have a turn at reading as well and it ends up an argument over who is reading the story.

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No suggestions sorry Hun. I could have exactly written your pot in regards to my 4 year old. I'm hoping its a stage she will grow out of. If she is still a wake by 10.30( I'm usually exhausted and completely over it by then), ill bring her in to my bed where she will fall asleep and dh will move her back to her bed. Hope you an find something that works for you. Xx

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BrightSparkles: Ah glad I'm not the only one.. *hugs*

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I know you've tried stories before but is it worth visiting them again? I find on nights when DD is particularly zonked, she will fall asleep as we read.
Try letting her brush her teeth, with you just finishing it off for her? Maybe it's related to that and then the follow up antics aren't really about sleep.

No bright lights or noises outside the bedroom that could be distracting?

Could you try and review the routine with her involvement? Talk about how she would like to go to bed each night, ask her why she doesn't like going to bed? There could be something fairly simple?

Just throwing some ideas out there, hope you get it sorted soon, we've had bedtime issues in the past and it can be so frustrating at the end of the day when all you want is some alone time.

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Cally: As I said above to Chody, the Story time is an argument as she won't just sit and listen to a story, she wants to read it herself and will fight me for the book. When brushing her teeth, she does have a turn first but again she will sing songs, or dance around and not actually brush for a good few minutes even with warnings etc and then we end up taking over. The nights she does cooperate and brush herself first we then finish it off so not sure how much I can change in that scenario. At the moment playing a game of "what food can Mummy see coming out of your teeth" seems to be the way to go. I know what she has eaten for the day so I just pretend as I brush that I can see those foods coming out on the toothbrush.
No bright lights or noises near her room, she has a small night light which is very dull and does not have a hall light on either.
We talked tonight and had a better night but has been great to get some ideas from everyone so thank you. :)

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Maybe she wants some extra attention and is acting up to make you give her some?? I would recommend no iPad before bed and maybe some special cuddles & a book then a story. Also when the baby comes he/she can come in and 'read books too' which is what we do with our baby. We hold him if he is asleep or lay him on the bed and they like including him in story time.

Good luck!

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Milka: I don't think it's an attention thing, I work from home most weeks with only the odd day or two every fortnight or so that I'm away from home and 99% of the time those days coincide with days she is at preschool anyway. My husband is also home by 2pm most days so she has plenty of time with us. I think she is just trying to stamp her independence as she is adamant that "i dont want to go to sleep" and "i'm not tired, see I'm not rubbing my eyes"... etc etc.. The ideas have been great though and have tried some tonight as I'd honestly just tried everything I could think of lately.

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My only two questions are what time does she wake up? And is she getting enough mental and physical exercise during the day?
My DS goes to sleep at around 7.30 but he wakes at 5.50ish every day. He has just dropped about 30 mins from his old sleep habits (used to sleep at 7pm).
He is also a bit of a handful if he's had a day of little exercise (both brain and body).

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Lenny: She usually wakes up between 7am and 8am and sometimes later, she has always been a long sleeper and generally needs a good 12-13 hours sleep or the 4yo tantrums raise their head during the day. When she is getting the right amount of sleep she is an angel. She attends preschool 3 days a week and the days she is at home we play outside, she plays continuously with our dog, she loves drawing, painting, any type of craft. We have half a dozen other children in our street around the same age which she also plays with so I think that she is ok in those departments.

Thanks EVERYONE for the feedback. Good to get some ideas on what to try tonight.
At about 6.45pm I got DD in the bath with bubbles (I worked away from home today so didn't get home till 6pm), she played for about 15 minutes and then got out. I sat down and told her about bed tonight and explained that we were trying something new. I told her that soon she would have to get dressed and that we'd go in her room and she can pick 2 x books for Mummy to read at bed time. She spent about 5 or so minutes going through her books, i turned off her DVD played which she was watching Bananas in PJ's while she ate her dinner. She ended up picking two books plus an activity book. I told her if she was a good girl and brushed her teeth like I ask that she would get some stories before bed. I explained that if she didn't brush her teeth there would be no story time. I said once I was finished the books that it was going to be sleep time and that the rules were "no getting out of bed, no crying and no screaming." I said if she was good and followed the rules that in the morning she would get a sticker on a new chart and that once she got 10 stickers she would be allowed to pick a "special treat" at the shops (a donut or something like that). She was excited. She brushed her teeth and let me finish them off, she went the bathroom, we went into her room and i turned off her light, we coloured in together for about 15 minutes and then I said it was story time, she didn't want to stop so I told her that if we kept colouring in she would only get 1 story read so we got in bed and read the stories, after much argument over who was going to read. After the stories I gave her a hug and kiss and said I'd pat her for 1 minute only. She wouldn't roll over and got straight out of bed pushing past me. I gave her 2 warnings which she ignored and so I left the room. She cried for about a minute and then silence. So although not perfect it is an improvement on the 1+ hrs it has taken to hear silence in the past month or so. Not perfect but it's a start. Fingers crossed.

Can I ask why you argue about the reading? Can you let her read to you instead or make up a story? I wonder if that would help her to settle

We tend to read our books then they can read them themselves afterwards alone. Sometimes they will read one to us before hand then it's our turn, then left with a book or two for themselves. Our kids also like the books on CD where they can listen and turn pages on their own like grown ups.

Sounds like a definite improvement. Just wanted to add that my dd plays this game and it sends me nuts. If she has been particularly difficult over a few days I bring her bed time earlier as well. She can't tell the time yet so doesn't realise it's earlier so I have her in bed by 630 and if she still takes an hour to get to sleep she is still is getting an extra hours sleep anyway - if that makes sense! Obviously if she can read the time it won't help but if not at least she would still be asleep by 730 rather than 830...the reward chart works really well for this as well - may dd responded really well but it did take a few shots so definitely persevere!

I'm not sure how you have been going, but it sounds like it was all positive the other night until you got to the rolling over/patting part. Is it possible she doesn't need/want you to do that anymore? Maybe that's just dragging out the process? We just give him a kiss, say goodnight, turn off the light and walk out. It's all calm, and brief - the longer we stick around, the more he gets over stimulated and plays up.

I agree with the others that have said no iPad before bed, and also if he wants to 'read' the book 'by self', we just let him. The less arguments at bed time, the better.

You could do a roster, one night you read the next night she reads. We do this. I just give her a handful of books and the lamp on then leave the room for ten minutes. When I come back we put books away in the book shelf in the room, kiss lights and I also put on some relaxation music then leave the room. Sometimes she cold out for more cuddles etc and she went through a phase of coming out of her room crying. I just continued to lead her back to bed over and over again until she fell aslepp. I think that lasted 2 nights then back to normal.