Controlled Crying is bad, mmkay?

So an article popped up in my FB newsthread today. Paraphrasing but the gist was 'Controlled Crying is bad, ok...why do parents think their kids should sleep through by 12 weeks... please buy my book....'

It got me thinking, firstly into how many blogs/articles are now written as if they are presenting research but then slide in 'if you want more info, please buy my book/potion....'

But secondly, So many writings on sleep/feeding/baby behaviours focus on the less than 6 month period, maybe up to 12 months and then after that you are on your own. I didn't have any illusions that my child would 'sleep through' by 12 weeks, but i would like it if he would sleep longer than 2 or 3 hours by now (13 months). I had a similar experience with my first, the first time we got a 5 hour stretch she was 15 months old. I was ok doing it with number 1, and had many explanations (she had a rough start, she needs touch, she is high needs, doesn't need much sleep...), but after doing it again with #2, and things have gotten harder with him rather than easier, i start to wonder maybe what i am doing is not working, and is not helping them long term.

Maybe if i tried harder to get them to sleep/in a pattern/ break them/whatevs when they were little instead of going with the flow/just surviving they would have the skills to settle and we would all be getting more sleep.

ETA - I think it is easy to say that responding to your baby is awesome, no CC, blah, blah if your kids learn how to sleep in the first year. When you are looking at 2 years, 3 years of kids that don't like to sleep day or night it gets harder to keep believing that what you are doing is good for them and good for the family.

I feel the exact same way. DD1 is 21 months and doesn't sleep well. I think a lot of it is to do with us having been conditioned to have the mindset that they 'should' be complying to our idea of good sleep by now. Of at least that's what I keep telling myself.

I think a big part of it is the child themselves. My ds needs sleep, I mean needs it. If he doesn't have it he is a whingy, grumpy child. Some kids don't need as much. Not that this helps your exhaustion. But I think a lot of the time there is only so much you can do.

Mind you I think my SIL encouraged bad sleep, because whenever her children would whimper she would tend to them. Hence waking them further, resulting in overtired children. Plus she would totally ignore tired cues. It's not about CIO, but it is about understanding your babies cries and cues. And this can go a long way in helping.

Just my opinion.

I think I May be ignorant lol, coz I only read parts of that article that interested me and not the book pushing lol.

I was just talking to a friend who will soon be having their first baby about sleep last night.

In my experience, I do feel that starting as you mean to go on really helps. We could just be extremely lucky, but we've got two girls that sleep REALLY well. DD1 only ever woke 1-2 times a night as a baby (2 was very rare) and DD2 is doing the same (last night we fed her at 9pm and she woke again at 4:30). We don't let our kids lie there and cry at all. What we have done is, right from the start, not fed to sleep (although there are occasions where they will fall asleep whilst feeding) and always tried to put them down in their bed when they are almost asleep rather than letting them fall asleep in our arms (again, yes this does happen occasionally, but we try not to so it all the time). I'm not saying doing other things are bad, this is just what we've chosen to do and it has worked for us. In my limited experience I've found that friends who's babies didn't develop these sleeping habits early on took longer to learn them as they got older (and I think that's when some have tried things like controlled crying).

I'm not saying babies should be sleeping through really early, but its obviously possible to sleep long stretches when being breast fed as that's what's happened here.

Both my girls have slept like angels from birth. Appropriate to their ages (eg 4 weeks old 5 hour blocks, DD2 is now 12 weeks old and sleeps 7-10 hour blocks generally). Once DD1 hit 6 months, it all went downhill. It was completely to do with her, not with the way she was put to sleep IMO (fed to sleep, or rocked, or hair stroked). I really think the majority is just luck. Having had one child who slept 11 hours without fail for probably 4 months, and then at one point was waking up 10+ times a night, I've been on both ends of it. Honestly, I fully expect DD2 to follow suit, I'm kind of just waiting for it. If she doesn't, great! But we aren't doing anything differently to what we did with DD1 - cosleeping, feeding to sleep etc.

I think it is easy to say your technique/parenting is correct when you get the desired outcome. I am awesome at toilet training cos that was part was really cruisy for us, but in reality i know my DD was just ready and picked it up easily. I am awesome at breastfeeding cos i had few issues with both my kids, but i know that them being healthy, full term and willing to feed and having support at home were also major factors. So, am i dodgy at sleep because they aren't big sleepers, or is it a combination of things again?

I guess i am in a questioning time, i have been here before and probably will be again. My DS was a 'better' sleeper as a young un than DD, but is probably on par with her at this age. Has he just grown into his genetic sleep cycle, or is it something else?

Do i need to do 'something' or do we just ride it out until things change again....

I agree that it's the child, not the way you put them to sleep. I've always put DD to sleep the same way, but she's been all over the sleep spectrum! From sleeping through, to waking every half hour all night; from going to sleep in minutes, to struggling for hours.

She's now 21 months and wakes anywhere from 1-3 times each night, and on Friday night it took a long three hours to get her to sleep. I'll admit I didn't expect this. I thought after 6 months all babies slept through, and it didn't help that my Mum kept saying "don't worry, just wait til 6 weeks, that's when they sleep all night" (ha!!). The thing is though, even though she's older now, I still can't do any form of controlled crying. If I were to put her in bed and just leave she'd follow me. If I shut the door she'd cry - and not just a 'bugger, now I have to sleep' cry. She makes it very clear that she needs me to go to sleep, and even when she's struggling she's ten times worse if I leave.

I do leave and send DH in if I've had too much and need a break, but she just doesn't handle just being left. Overnight is different, not every noise or cry means she's awake - I only go in if she actually calls out Mum.

The thing that helps me is knowing that this is normal until around 4 years. I figure 4 years is a short time in the grand scheme of things, and I'd prefer to give her what she needs than listen to her crying while I do the dishes or something.

I am not an advocate for controlled crying at all. I co slept with DD and she moved into her own room when she was almost three. I was also blessed that she never had sleep issues. I cannot remember one time when I was up during the night with her screaming (don't hate me!!!)

That said, when she moved into her own room, there were nights she wasnt happy about it. I settled her for hours, but as soon as I left she would be wide awake and screaming. There were times I did let her scream (not for a prolonged period). Then i would go into her and reassure her. She learnt to self settle and sleep on her own (which, dont hate me, I think is important).

I think there is a difference HotI between infants, toddlers and pre-schoolers and how we parent them, as long as the constant behind that parenting is love and security. I think some of it is luck (having a good sleeper, etc) but I also think some of it is conditioning.

I think you only need to do *something* if *you* feel your current techniques are no longer working for *you* or your family. As you said, ppl will use techniques and say they worked for them because the desired outcome was achieved?

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The thing is though, even though she's older now, I still can't do any form of controlled crying. If I were to put her in bed and just leave she'd follow me. If I shut the door she'd cry - and not just a 'bugger, now I have to sleep' cry. She makes it very clear that she needs me to go to sleep, and even when she's struggling she's ten times worse if I leave.

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I closed the door on DD for the first time when she was around 2, cos i just needed a break. The next day she learnt how to open her door! So, my one technique that i had been keeping up my sleeve only lasted one day! :wall:

I also agree that to a huge extent it is the child that governs how sleep goes. My first two didn't sleep for the first few months. Hours and hours of walking floors with them, rocking them, pushing and shushing them. I've never done CC'd crying and I copped it from anyone and everyone that I was spoiling my girls and making a rod for my own back. Then at about 3 months DD1 started sleeping through - 8+ hours at a time. DD2 took until about 5 months but then she was on the sleeping bandwagon too. Now at almost 5 and almost 6 they are still awesome little sleepers.

Then along comes DD3. She is an absolute angel from two days after birth. 5 and 6 hour sleep blocks all night every night. No settling issues either - she'd wake, I'd feed her, she'd be asleep within a couple of minutes. Then she hit 3 months and that all went out the window and I now have a 9 month old who except for one cruel week recently where she teased me with the hope of getting some sleep hasn't slept for longer than 1.5 hours at a time since 3 months. I do nothing differently with her - I've tried sooo many different things now and after visits to sleep school the only thing left is their advocated crying it out (I was told to just put her in her cot and simply not tend to her AT ALL when she cried so that's not going to happen). I'm just hoping that sometime soon she will find that magic sleep button her sisters have found.

and i think there is a need to be firm as well especially at the 4 yr old mark....as my kids are all great sleepers once they get to sleep.... sometimes it is the old fashioned 'im going to be naughty as i know it is nighttime etc etc' and it is hard work but im talking 8 30pm and i have been trying since 7 30pm.... and oh routine is get home from daycare/kinder play/tv dinner bath and bed with the toilet cuddles love you's and then there both out for the count BUT when the 4 yr old wants to play up he plays up and thats when the 'control crying/whinging/ grizzling' comes into play at my house !

Teeki, just wondering if you "worry" it won't stop at four years of age?? I know plenty of people who have their 7, 8, 9 year olds crawling in to bed with them every night. I just couldn't function like that, which is why I knew I had to help DD learn to self settle earlier.

Another one who believes it is the child and not the technique. From the day he was born Moo has needed help to sleep, he is now 3.5 and stills needs help occasionally and still wakes in the night due to nightmares. He is also an early riser and nothing we have tried has stopped that.

Now Buster. I did exactly the same things as I did with his brother, he started sleeping through very early and still sleeps a lot. He is also a very chilled out bub, opposite to Moo.

Agree that it's the child, not the technique. Mine mostly self settled until the 7 month mark. Then they needed help (the type of help changed a number of times) until they were 2 1/2 or 3. So we've had what others would call 'terrible' sleepers. DD2 seems to be following the same pattern, so I'm kinda holding out hope we only have a year to go before she starts sleeping through and needing as much help :)

I think your own mindset plays a huge role too. We rarely fight our children with sleep (occassionally we'd be fed up and cranky at having to sit stroking their arm or whatever for an hour or more! LOL) but in general we've just accepted that this is how it is with our kids and we get through it. If you're constantly thinking they should be doing something different and trying to teach them, that's got to be stressful. i certainly don't have the energy or inclination to get up and pat a baby for an hour so they can 'self settle' when we can both be back to sleep after a 5 minute feed.

Our kids have always been welcome in our bed through the night.. and that pretty much slowed right down as they slept through more regularly, 3 or 4yrs old. Towards the end of that tho they were just coming in and we wouldn't even realise until we woke up to them in the middle of the bed LOL. You can definitely encourage independent sleeping tho without it being stressful. i think the more you insist they sleep on their own, the more likely they're going to feel like they need you. We just went with lots of praise for staying in bed, welcoming them into our bed if they needed it. It didn't go forever... and it's actually something you look back on fondly if you just go with it.

I'm interested in all these opinions - I'm fascinated by all of the posters who say they did exactly the same thing with their second as with their first... Really? Cos I have done a dozen different things already with my first, and he's only 6 months old! I'm pretty sure I will not repeat some things, do some of the same things again, and a whole bunch of different things with my second (God willing there IS a second.)

Does that mean that you think you got it 'right' first time? But not all of the first bubs were 'good' sleepers. And if the outcomes were different (thus justifying the conclusion that it is the child and not the technique) why NOT try different things with the second?

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i certainly don't have the energy or inclination to get up and pat a baby for an hour so they can 'self settle' when we can both be back to sleep after a 5 minute feed.

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That has been my philosophy, and i guess it worked for DD. But at least one wake at night for DS involves him kicking, climbing on, jumping around the bed, screaming...... for up to a couple of hours. I can handle the feeds back to sleep, i don't know what to do when the hugging, feeding etc doesn't work.