At the end of our rope. No2's in a 4yo

As the title suggests I have come out of BB hibernation to ask for some advice.
the back story:-

Miss4 (nearly 5) started TT when she was 3. Success fairly quickly with wee but then got really sick and regressed. After much trial and error we got that under control again. We have never had any success with bowel movements. She has done it on the loo every so often. As with every other milestone it is a case of "Done it now don't have to do it again". For ages she would take herself off and put on a nappy pant to do poo. She was always encouraged to sit on the toilet. I took a little positive in at least she knew she needed to do it and took hope in the fact it would come in time. (Some of you may remember previous posts about it)

Fast forward to this year. She is is 4 and regularly spoils herself. She doesnt even try to go to the toilet. She will quite happily sit in her soiled clothes all day if I let her. It is a struggle to get her to sit on the toilet to try. She will go and wee no worries.

Talking to her about it is like a never ending loop. Yes she knows she has to go, she can feel it, she is scared, yes she will come get us if she needs to go, she will try harder etc. When you ask what she is scared of it changes everytime. We have tried to be calm, sit with her, positive reinforcement. She has had a reward chart, 1 stamp for sitting and trying, 2 if she does something. She saves up her stamps and gets something with them ie 10 stamps for one ride on the carousel in Geelong.

I have had her checked out at the doctors, stool and urine samples. Nothing detected. She is not constipated, we have increased water and fruit consumption.

I know when they are scared it is very hard but does anyone have any advice??? any tips?? She is due to start school next year and I am worried this wont be resolved by then. The thought of her being teased at school just has me in tears.

Hi Donna.

We had this issue with Liebling. Toilet-trained himself age 22m, decided he preferred nappies. At age 3.5 he decided he wanted to use the loo, so we did that. Big issues with poo. It took an extra 9 months for him to use the loo for that. He just liked using his pants and not telling anyone and being really filthy. I made him clean himself up and his pants and his trousers once he turned 4, that seemed to help. (And DH told him that he was starting school soon and this was not acceptable behaviour, how dare he do this? etc - not sure which approach worked but Liebs got both the laissez-faire and shame reactions, depending on who dealt with him (mostly me).

When we moved house, DS was bang on 5 and had trouble with poo again - didn't want to go so it all got a bit painful from holding it in (not constipated, just refusing to let it out). We sat him on the loo and did his favourite relaxation activities for up to an hour at a time to get him going again. He knew he had to go but couldn't articulate his fears, so I just dealt with it as best I could.

HTH.

Possibly very different but my DS4 had terrible issues with poo. He however was constipated. He had severe toileting refusal due to the pain association.

We ended up doing behaviour modification, so after every meal he was made to go sit on the toilet and we would read a book, play a game, sing a song etc for no less than 5 minutes at a time. If he sat he got a reward (sticker/stamp/small treat, whatever his currency was at the time), if he did a poo, big or small he got an even bigger reward complete with song and dance. The key was not to mention poo! At all! We weren't there for poo, we were there to hang out and see what happened. Eventually he did a poo in the toilet, then another and another. Not once did we mention that we were going to do a poo though, as soon as you did that he would refuse to go near it.

It has taken well over 18 months to get DS to the point where he will poo on the toilet willingly. He however still won't poo in unfamiliar toilets, he will and can hold if he has to. =/

DD1 was exactly the same and only stopped doing it when DD2 toilet trained and she saw her getting treats and praise for doing the poo in the toilet and not in her pants.

So I have absolutely no advice, just wanted to let you know that I understand your frustration :hug:

Both my kids have been very thingy about their poo. They are possessive about it and scared about letting it go. Both mine toilet trained by 2 with wee and it took another few weeks with poo, but here is what worked for us:

Don't talk about her toileting for a week. Just relax and ease the pressure off. Give her a nappy and praise her for doing a poo.

Start talking about her poo after she has done it in a really positive way. Poo is great and interesting. Did you know it's made from the food you eat etc.

Talk about your own poo. Do one in the toilet and call her to look and say wow is t it interesting (this was aimed at a 2 year old so not sure if this appeals to you).

Then comment on how easy it is to just flush away. Bye poo, love you see you next time kinda thing.

Kids fear letting go of their poo because its part of them. Flushing it away is like flushing away a part of yourself. It's scary.

Try to understand her fears and be objective. She will get through this. Don't let your own stress influence her progression on this. It will be easy to solve once she understands toilets and poo are great and positive and meant to happen.

I would avoid any negativity about her using nappies. It's better she actually goes than holds on.

Poo. :hug:

First up, relax. Chill out a bit. This has been a long road, you've done all the right things, and at the end of the day you need to remember that she won't be wearing a nappy at her 21st. Forget about her age, or school, or anything. Let it go. Take the pressure off. Off you, off her.

Second, look at the rest of her life. The non-poo stuff. I have seen (childcare) lots of kids go into regressions for all kinds of random reasons, and really needing some help to come out of it. Is there any source of stress in her life? Even getting the hurry along to finish breakfast, or being told she can't do XYZ because of some reason that is quite logical and rational to grown ups but ridiculous to her. It could be something really little. So do some emotional nurturing, not related to poo.

Get her on a probiotic. It can't hurt :lol: It's my answer to everything poo related!

I think I had more ideas, but I forget. You're doing a great job, and this will all end up okay eventually. Good luck!

Gah!! My ds has been exactly the same.
Even now, at 4.4 he will often have to be led by the hand with his but cheeks clenched together to the toilet because ha just won't take himself.
It is beyond frustrating.
As much as it pains me to do it, we have found that he only thing that truely motivates him is payment :/
Chocolate is the currency of choice here.
Can you up the reward ante?
At first, I had a whole prize box going on , with cars, smarties, poppers s d cuppa chips.
That really kicked things off, now I can get him to go for as littles as 3 smarties lol.
Also, if we are going somewhere really exciting, I tell him we can't leave until he does a poo, that works too.
It's crazy hey ?

Thanks for the advice. Still no luck but she will sit on the loo to "practice". small step forward