Wind - how best to handle?

Bub has been feeding like a champ since he was born. The first few days in hospital, I don't remember winding him after a feed. I was concentrating on getting the feeding part right. It wasn't until Mum asked me do I burp him that I thought about it.

a friend then pointed out once when he was sleeping, that his upper lip looked blue an that meant he had wind. For the next few days, DH and took it in turns spending 40-60min burping bub after each feed until his lip didn't look blue. Given that he feeds every 2-3 hours, this makes for little sleep in between feeds.

I read in "Happiest Baby on the block" (at 3am one morning) that the best way to burp a baby was to sit him up, double him over and give his back 10-20 firm thumps. We also tried bicycling his legs, which helps him fart/poo. And we rub his tummy in circular motions.

the MCHN came Wednesday and said we should only be taking 10-20min to wind him. We need to hold his head up straight and gently tap him on the back a few times.

That's nice in theory, but if we just do that, then 10-30min later, he lets out a piercing scream and starts crying. We assume that's trapped wind of some sort as he often poos/farts soon after. The burps don't seem to hurt him, but the block before a poo often does.

then again, he could be overtired, uncomfortable, want cuddles. Sometimes we miss the "feed me" cues and think it's wind.

anyway, we're feeling pretty clueless as well as stupidly tired. He's doing his sleep/scream/poo thing in my arms now.

is this a variation of normal or are we doing something wrong? It's hard to follow my "Mummy instincts" when I feel so helpless when he's screaming like that.

the other thing he does when he's in pain like this is want another feed. I'm happy to comfort feed. I'm just worried that more milk will then start the wind/pain cycle again.

I found the best way to wind my babies were to sit them on my knee and put my hand under and around their neck and then bend them forward and back slowly a few times till they burped. However, this didn't always work. Both are refluxers (still at 18 months and 4 yrs old) and bad wind and reflux often go together. I found letting them comfort feed did make it worse, but I would do anything to help them feel better even if only for the time feeding.

I remember being completely useless at knowing the difference between tired/hungry/gassy. I sometimes tried burping DD but sitting her up, hand under her chin and rubbing/patting her back, but 9 times out of 10 she just didn't burp, and I'd woken her up for nothing when she'd fallen asleep on the boob. Either that, or her burp would be practically silent and easy to miss. So, I soon gave up on the whole burping thing, I felt like I was wasting my time. She seemed to deal better with farts anyway lol.

But, if lower wind is giving him issues I think I'd be more like you and want to get it up quicker. If it's happening during the day, could you maybe just hold him upright on you asleep for the first 10-20 minutes? I think you said you had a wrap, maybe just being upright and your movement will help? Other than that I'm not much help, but hopefully someone with good advice pops in :hug:

I've always burped my two when they were little by sitting them on my lap, and placing one hand under their chin, and the other one on their back so they're say completely upright. My midwives have said this is a good way to burp, and thumping often breaks up the bubbles and makes them harder to get out. Don't know how true that is, but it's an approach that worked here. DD2 had a lot of gas, and severe reflux, which as has been said, often go hand in hand.

The blue lip thing is an old wives tale. As is being cross eyed, blowing bubbles, having their tongue up.

Some people love burping babies. Some people obsess over it. Others never bother. For me, with my most recent and most screamy child, I just held her upright on my shoulder for 20 minutes and patted. Sometimes she burped, sometimes she didn't. I've long thought that it's the being upright that settles them, not the burping. So if you're really worried, pop him in the sling and go walking.

I'm not a big believer in wind itself being an issue for babies. More that the neurological stimulus of the wind feeling causes sensory overload, and that's why thy cry. So doing all the Happiest Baby things should help with that.

I dont believe i have heard actually 'burped' my babies...

sometimes i would sit them upright on my lap after a feed if they were fussing/screaming their heads off...change of scenery and all that jazz.

other times i would have them up over my shoulder after a feed because i needed to make a cup of tea.

Basically in my case, any burping was entirely coincidental. There may have been a handful of times where in desperation to quell the crying that i tried, but in the end i wonder if it was more to just change things up from whatever else i was trying.

Also, i daresay that there is a wonderweek creeping up on you...bubs generally around the 3 week mark tend to go a bit cray cray as they make a new leap in awesomeness.

I disagree on the blue lip thing being an old wives tale. My elder two had it and my newbie has it particularly clearly. Though for him it's the skin underneath his lower lip. It's pale when he had a burp and clears to normal colour as soon as the wind comes up. Love the burp indicator!

That said, I give burping a go (same method as PZ) and if it doesn't come up after 5 mins, max, I just leave it. With DS 1, I often found that leaving him to wiggle around for a bit on his back or slightly elevated if really full seemed to actually consolidate the air into one big bubble. Then I'd pick him up and kind of stretch him straight up over my shoulder, a couple of pats and buuuuuurp! And I don't do it because it causes discomfort as much as that it causes little (sometimes massive) chucks all over clothing and bedding and it can give them a big fright when they're gargling milk!

I agree that the lower wind seems to be the bit that causes the screamies, and whilst by cycling legs, tummy-rubs, changes in Mummy's diet all can help, that sometimes it is just one of those things. The product of an immature gut and nervous system and it makes them uncomfy, sad, and need lots of cuddles. I spent hours... No, probably days or weeks when you put it all together, fretting about and trying to address DS1's wind issues. And ultimately, (dairy-free diet aside... That did help), he was just a windy baby and cried lots when he needed to fart/poo.

I don't mean to be flippant. It's awful, awful. AWFUL when they're miserable. But I'm just as much trying to remind myself of this as I embark on this for the third time. Sometimes, all you can do is cuddle, offer a feed, cuddle some more, dance, sing... and then hand them to hubby while you do some serious deep breathing!

Good luck Hun. Here if you need anything. More than happy to compare newbie stories and offer any help I can. (ie. I'd LOVE to meet him, give me a buzz when you're up for company :) )

I've never heard of the blue lip thing, so I believe that Luna Moth is right and that it is just an old wives' tale.
I also agree that not all babies need to be burped and that often holding them upright, e.g. in a sling is sufficient to settle them.
Having said that, it is not uncommon for newborns to have wind, as many mothers have an oversupply of milk in the first few weeks, as well as a strong letdown, which means that the baby is drinking really fast and hence gets air trapped inside. Most babies grow out of this as the mother's supply regulates and as the baby grows bigger so the letdown is not so overwhelming.
So - from what you describe your LO is normal and you're not doing anything wrong.
Some mothers find that either holding your baby upright when you feed him, or laying on your back with your baby on your front (so that he's sucking against gravity) helps to reduce the amount of air that they baby gulps, which reduces wind any any associated discomfort.
You can also call the ABA helpline for some more suggestions. GL.

we did the sit them faceing outwards supporting the head and rubbing the back (outwards due to Dj's reflux and vomit on the floor is always better) or another way my uncle did it was to lay bub over his forearm faceing down (like tummy time) and rub their back; again spew on the floor.

Hi, _ It’s all so confusing, isn’t it? Does it really *matter* what colour his lip is? People tend to worry about things a lot, but if he’s asleep - does it matter? To be honest, I think being prevented from sleeping and having your back continually patted could be a whole lot more irritating than just having a good fart or poo when you need one. It seems to me that you didn’t really have a problem until people you told you you had a problem. What do you think. I think as others have said, the whole wind issue is a bit *overblown* so to speak

If he sleeps well and seems content and comfortable then don't change a thing!

I reckon if they need to burp, then they do it regardless, and otherwise, as you say, you're eating into precious rest/sleep time.
He's brand new and getting used to being on the outside, pooing is still a new thing. He might reckon it's weird. Some will say those signs of discomfort before a poo (or even wee) are your baby's way of telling you they need to go, "so pop me over a potty". They get used to nappies and stop doing it after a while. But I'm not you so can't speak for your baby obviously.

It is totally normal for them to feed for non-nutritive reasons, yep, it's an integral part of normal development.

I know you feel like you don't know anything, but you know him like no-one else and this useless feeling as you try things and figure it out is precisely how you learn to hear and follow your instincts and develop your skill as a mother.

Thanks for all the responses.

I believe I have a fast let down. Often when bub first latches on, he pulls back choking and then gets a fountain of milk in his face. I try to manually express some off into a breast pad before he latches on, but I usually forget at 3am.

MadB - interesting point about the potty cues. I'd like to try EC, but wanted to get more comfortable with breastfeeding first.

I must read up on the Wonder Weeks too. I just need the energy to read....

I guess my main concern is how best to comfort him through the screams before he poos. If lying him down on his tummy will help prevent or deal better with the pain, then I'll do it. If feeding him through the pain helps, I'll do it. I just don't want to do something that makes it worse.

Oh sorry L&B I misread your first post, so he does seem uncomfortable? It may not be wind, which isn't really a helpful contribution. I mean it could be but from you've described it could just be a newborn trying to find his way in a new world, needing comfort for no other reason than being a newborn! Or he might be hungry, could be anything and nothing. DD was notoriously hard to wind, she just wouldn't burp! It does help to simply keep them upright for a short while after a feed, and even just gently jiggling/rocking/bouncing them as you walk or sit with them. This helped DD more than than any of the failsafe burping techniques we were told to try.

How do you hold him when he feeds? Laidback nursing is great for fast flow - you recline, make yourself comfy, he lies on top of you working against gravity to draw up milk. Feeding lying down in bed can also help with this.
Feeding does help with discomfort, that's why they ask for it. Watch him, listen to him, he knows what he needs and it'll all come to you with time. Just try stuff and see. :hug:

I've started reclining more with him lying down a bit more. Completely not what the MCHN said to do.

i should clarify - it's not burping that seems to be a problem. It's farting/pooing. However, a friend said that is an indicator that the burping isnt working and air is getting further down, becoming a fart problem.

I've also read that patting them on the back can help the bubbles rise, or make it worse....has anyone actually done a study on the flow of air in a neonate's intestinal tract and whether or not tapping etc actually works?

What we do know is that he loves to sleep on someone's chest. He likes the hammock, is starting to hate the bassinet, settles using the 5S's, prefers to be swaddled and doesnt like pooing. He's putting on weight like a trooper, has lots of wet/dirty nappies and is becoming more aware of the world. He generally feeds from one side at a time and takes 5-20min to do so. He feeds about every 2-3 hours, except today when it was more like every 90min.

DD1 was shocking to try and burp. Didn't matter what position we tried, she just wouldn't burp. She'd get upset and uncomfortable. I remember feeling so helpless. And then sometimes the simple task of passing her over to DH would create a burp. DD2 was a simple rub on the back. I'd have her high on my shoulder so she was almost leaning over me, then rub her back and burp! It's nothing that you're doing wrong, there might be a position that works beautifully for him, there may not.

There is a wonder weeks app that is fantastic. While it's not as detailed as the book, I found it incredibly helpful as a quick resource with DD2.

There's no 'correct' way to breastfeed - if your baby is feeding well and you're comfy then you're doing it right.

Anyway, sounds like he's going very well! So you're obviously doing a good job :)

So I'm thinking maybe you're a researcher and overthinker (Which has always been my problem). Sometimes it's good to try and switch off your thinking brain and just be with your baby, it allows your instincts to come to the fore. There is actually no book that can tell you what to do.