time for a new deal

I've always comforted Yasin to sleep but it seems to be taking up a bigger amount of my evening than I'm comfortable with and if Imran is having a fussy night it just does my head in so I've decided that its time for a new deal with Yasin's bedtime. My main motivation for posting here is to get things straight in my head/think outloud and to get a bit of feedback and maybe some more ideas so........
The way I see it Yasin's needs are
*daddy time (impossible on the nights he's away) and one on one time
*a routine he's comfortable with
*a sense of security and safety at bedtime - to be happy to go to bed.
My needs are
*for Yasin to go to sleep on his own most nights (at the moment he goes to sleep on his own about 1 night in 10)
*more time to myself in the evening so I can unwind a bit

Sooooooo I need to figure out how to achieve this......

I'm thinking that I need to tweak his bedtime routine a bit. At the moment he has a bath then gets dressed, we read a book and then its lights off and anywhere up to 2 hours to get him to sleep (3 hours on a couple of occasions when him and Imran both fussed and took turns waking each other).
In order to meet Yasin's need for more time with his father and more one on one time I'm thinking that a new routine might be a bath, 15-30 mins chatting together in his bed, 2 books then lights out and Yasin can put himself to sleep. If he wants to play for a while first that's ok just so long as most nights I don't have to go back in after I say goodnight. On the nights that BJ is home he could do all the post bath routine (he won't bath him because he almost dropped him in the bath when he was about a month old :rolleyes: ) and when he isn't I'll do it (if Imran's awake it won't be one on one time but that's unavoidable).

In order to make him happier to be alone in his room and put himself to sleep I think I need to make some changes to his room. At the moment he's only in it when he sleeps and most of his toys are down stairs and I took nearly all the books off his shelf because I was sick of picking them up after he threw them on the floor every morning. Since he only sleeps in it I've let it become a bit of a mess so I need to get it really tidy again and put clutter away. I might also get some toys that are just for his room and put them on his book shelf along with a larger selection of books. Hopefully this will make his room more appealing to him. I might also buy him some new PJ's (he needs them anyway) and I need to get new batteries for his pooh night light.
Maybe if we do all this together with him over the weekend we can explain why as we do it and get him involved with picking PJ's and toys so that a change in routine isn't a shock to him and he feels more proactive/involved with it.

I'm wondering what I can do to encourage him. I thought that maybe a star chart and if he can get 5 stars for going to sleep on his own I could get him a torch to take to bed and play with in his room (its only fun in the dark after all) but then again maybe he's too young for the star chart and 5 sleeps might just seem way too long so it might be better to just spring the torch on him as a suprise after he's done it for 2 nights in a row.

I'm not really sure how to put it into action - some tears seem inevitable. I hate the idea of control crying and I feel nasty planning to do something that will upset my baby but I think that with BJ away up tp 4 nights a week its important for me to make some space for myself so that I can be calmer and more relaxed. He puts himself to sleep for his day nap so I know that with the right encouragement he can do it at night.
Part of me thinks that I should say that I'm going and I will be back to check on him in 5 minutes but from past experience I know that often if he is conent and he sees me or DH he will stop being content and throw a wobbly. If I tell him that I will be nearby and if he needs me he only has to shout that is inviting a shout IYKWIM. I geuss that maybe the best strategy is to tell him that I'll be nearby but not invite the shout. If gets upset I can calm him and leave again.

Thanks for listening if you've got this far. Any feedback would really be appreciated.

I hear you on the thing about it taking a long time to get Yasin to sleep. It can be that way for us, with Jacob too, although it's more when DH puts him to bed. Jacob rarely puts himself to sleep.

Perhaps another thing you could try is to play a few games in his room or read some books, play with toys etc in there during the day so he sees his room as a 'fun' and 'inviting' place to be IYKWIM? I know sometimes this can have the reverse effect though, in that then when you try to get them to sleep, they think it's time to play. So I'm not sure about that one entirely, but just a thought/different strategy to consider.

Maybe whatever new books you get can be dedicated 'sleepy time books', i.e. you talk to him about how they are special books that you only ever read together at sleep times. Perhaps you could even get some kiddie books that are about going to sleep etc (kind of along the lines of a book I got recently, that was about nappies/potties etc! Jacob thinks it's great even though we're not at TT, we thought it was a good book to talk about the 'issues' IYKWIM?)

Does he have a special toy to take to bed? Jacob has a Pooh Bear that he absolutely loves and takes to bed with him and it's part of his sleep ritual to cuddle up to him. We always say when he gets into bed "cuddle up to Pooh Bear" and he does it straight away and seems to relax. Perhaps something like that might help?

About the star chart - I have thought about using something like this too, for various different things, but I'm unsure as to whether he'd understand the concept of it right now? I'm not really sure......it's something that we need to think about a bit more, but I guess anything is worth a try (for us too - so the star chart is something I'm still thinking about and considering trying sooner rather than later!).

Not sure if any of this has helped......I've just prattled on really! LOL

Jenna is usually pretty good at going to sleep nowadays - although in saying that it could all change overnight.
We are quite structured with her at night time. Bath no later than 7pm, and in bed by 7:30pm. We will usually turn the TV off so the house is quiet before her bed time, and I'll say to her "right - choose your books, and off to bed".
So we go to bed, and she has a couple of books that we read - usually one about a teddy bear going to bed. She loves it! At the end of it, all her toys have to kiss the teddy and her and us goodnight, and then its bed time. we put on her music CD, and she knows its sleep time.
I know when she will go down well cause she is saying bye to us, and basically wants us gone. But some nights we have a harder time, and she wants more and more books, the beds not right, or she wants her milk or something like that.
Some nights she has to kiss the cats goodnight, and we just gowith the flow. They will suffer it. Very seldom do we have to let her cry - maybe only once every 3-4 days or so?
What if he became part of a household routine. Like say putting his toys away, turning off a certain light, saying goodnight to a photo or something like that?

The new toys you are suggesting could be special toys that he only gets to play with in bed - then he associates them with bedtime IYKWIM? Also you could try the start chart because if he is starting to talk in sentences now, he should be able to grasp the concept that good behaviour = special toys/treats.

Thanks for your input.
He's already got a duck and a teddy that I put in bed with him so I might start saying goodnight to them too. I like the idea of spending a bit more time in his room that isn't sleepy time - maybe tidying up together over the weekend could be a start with that (gotta remember to make it fun).
We already have Hairy Maclary as his special bedtime book for his day and night sleeps (oh boy am I sick of it LOL) and I was going to get Green Sheep as well so maybe we can read one random selection and then the special sleep books. He has books downstairs so I think I'll try and keep some bedroom books in the bedroom.
I've thought about getting a CD but the big problem with that is that he thinks that all discs are DVDs and he gets quite aggro with them and really annoyed when I won't play them for him. Maybe I could just play some music through the computer in another room. Then again he laready has a dummy and a blanky and I don't want to create a situation where he needs a suitcase full of accesories to go to sleep IYKWIM. I've always left the TV on if I was watching it, because I thought that if he can still hear all the usual household noises it reassues him that everything is normal but I might try turning it off and seeing how it works.
I'd best have a look at Lucy's star chart thread and get some star chart ideas.
I like the idea of special bedtime toys. He's car crazy at the moment and keeps taking the cars his grandad gives him to bed with him (they don't seem very cuddly to me but he freaks if I try to take them away so I don't bother) so I might get him some bed cars. I wonder if they make sheets with roads on them that he could 'drive' his cars on.
Thanks again for your help.

Jacob has a soft toy car that sits on his bed that we found in a Best & Less shop down here. He doesn't play with it too much, but he likes having it there IYKWIM? I've also seen similar ones in Spotlight.....

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I feel nasty planning to do something that will upset my baby but I think that with BJ away up tp 4 nights a week its important for me to make some space for myself so that I can be calmer and more relaxed.

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Hi, please don't feel bad about this! You do need to have the time and space for yourself, and as long as you do it in a caring way, Yasin will be fine. He's not a tiny baby who will feel permanently abandoned when you leave him to go to sleep - he's old enough to understand that you're still around when he can't see you.

George was almost 2 when we decided to sleep train him. We were very sad about it as we had always intended to parent him to sleep for as long as he needed it. But at 9 months pregnant and him still needing me for up to 4 hours during the night, I realised that I could not keep it up once we had a new baby also needing attention through the night. I went to our parenting centre and told them I needed a solution but I would not do control crying. We discussed a couple of techniques and decided to to the calm putting back to bed routine. Normal evening and bedtime routine, say goodnight and leave, wait for him to come out of his bedroom and gently but firmly put him back. I still remember the first night, when he came out 163 times! But in under a week he was self settling. No crying was involved. Ever since then he has gone to sleep without hassles except for very occasionally when he's been sick. We put him down at 7 and he stays in bed alone until 6 (although he looks such a little angel asleep that we usually peek in on our way to bed just to look at him).

Anyway, our method won't necessarily be right for you - but I just wanted to tell you how relieved I was and how wonderful it was to have got to that point. And of course, the children will reap the benefits of you being less stressed and tired.

Dont they just look gorgeous asleep in their beds. We always sneak in and look at Jenna, and at night she is becoming a much heavier sleeper so if we do disturb her she usually pops right back off.
No such luck during the day though!!

I obviously don't have any experience with this myself as my little tike is only a few months, however on Opera a few weeks ago they had a couple with a similar problem, their 9 month old would not go to sleep and would wake during teh night and call for them. Anyway Opera sent them the sleep lady who recommended the following:
First 3 nights: Mum to sit next to the cot (ALL night) to help baby go sleep on its own and so anytime baby would wake she would be there.
4th night: pull chair away from cot (eg: middle of room) and sleep there
5th, 6th night: pull chair to door (and sleep there)
all though the night, if the baby woke she was not allowed to go to the baby but was allowed to say "its OK, go back to sleep" or whatever.

I think by the 7th night she was allowed to go back to her own room and the baby self settled and did not wake her during the night.

Now I'm not sure if this will help? But it seemed a way to ensure mimimal tears for a change in routine?

Good luck!