Help with tantrumming 5 yr old

My DD has been super obedient and is very well behaved. However, I now have a 5 year old who is going through a big independant streak - which is great, so she should!
But She is tantrumming again!! What's that all about?

It's the old "can I have..." "
No I'm sorry you can't because..."
"YES! I WANT IT NOW! and you are going to give it to me! (NOT!)
She actually even jumps up and down like a toddler! Or is sften she will be quite rude, in her replies.
I feel like we've been here, done this.

Same if I ask her do something, she will often do it, but be rude as she is doing it. Clarification - what I call rude is "Hmpph." crosses arms and says something like "you are a very colly lash mummy" ok. colly lash doesn't mean anything, but the tone is pretty clear from the way she speaks. She makes up words as she doesn't know any rude ones I suppose!

I know I'm very strict compared to a lot of parents but I think attitude is really really important? But I want to recognise that she is also frustrated at having to do something she doesn't want to do (gosh, know how she feels!)

What do other mums do?
HELP! Should I separate the obedience and the attitude? How should I help her deal with being frustrated?

For background, she is very obedient, ie. if we say "timeout, off to your room" she goes nearly straight away, just screaming on the way there which is fine as she's angry. Do I just ignore the throwing things (tantrumming again?)

Toddlers were way easier than this!!

Nickel, I hear you! dont have any suggestions to offer, but like you i'm very strict with Ashlea and her attitude and can't stand her speaking rude to anyone, esspecially me

She does exactly what your describing. When you work out how to sto it be sure to let me know, but for now, hope it helps knowing your not alone :)

Argh don't tell me toddlers are easier!!! Wah!!!

;) *mwa* big hugs matey

Nickel - she sounds just like Chelsea. I too am fairly strict about how she speaks and what she says (she is 4). We use the naughty corner (like supernanny!) and it works so well. She gets one warning, then off to the corner where she stays for 4 minutes. After that I go and get her and ask to apologise, then ask her why she is apologising. I want to make sure she knows why - and she usually does. She says sorry, we hug and we say, we wont be doing that again. She is pretty good most of the time but she does the crossed arms thing and tells me to be quiet as I am annoying her! Or I am being too bossy! I would ignore the bad behaviour, they usually are doing it to get a reaction anyway. I am sure you will find something that works.

I love the newborn to 12 mths stage - no back chat, just lots of smiles :D

Sorry christy - maybe not Matilda's toddler stage....!

THANK-YOU - it sounds like it's a definite phase for girls around this age? So I haven't suddenly slipped up somehow??
What do you do if the tantrumming involves throwing things or hitting (to get attention)? I feel like I'm starting to load up all the punishments, you know time out for #1, then time out for throwing, then time out for hitting and yelling, then...
Do you think the bad behaviour in response to the discipline should be ignored? as it's just anger and frustration?

Nickel - If I put Chelsea on the naughty corner for say talking rudely, I explain that to her and put on in the spot. She has sometimes screamed and cried and carried on because I put her there! I just ignore her while she is there - she is usually trying to get my attention anyway. I wait for the 4 mins, then go over and ask for the apology. The screaming etc has lessened now and she just sits there. The whole idea is too ignore them while they are there, unless the get up and try to move away, then you have to put them back. Chelsea hasn't yet try to get away, I don't think she realises that she can LOL!!! Good luck, its such a challenge as they seem wise beyond their years sometimes.

Where I work (child and adolescent mental health), we generally have the "rule" that time out time doesn't start until the child is relatively quiet...(well at least not screaming and throwing things)...

Even with kids with severe behaviour problems, this worked quite well...although it requires alot of patience and stamina from their parents!

Doesn't everything require stamina and patience from parents??!! LOL

Nickel, my Erin is the Queen of Tantrums and is a rather stubborn and sometimes insolent child. I have found the best way to tackle the problem with her (and she starts out the same way as your little girl - demanding something) is to tell her she can't have it and why and then ignore her if she starts to carry on. This avoids me having a conflict with her and the problem escalating cause she will back off and walk away. When she has gotten over it, we do talk about it. It is not something that would work for every child and there are probably a heap of books to tell you not to do it that way, but it does work quite effectively for us.

I agree with Monnie totally,

I've worked for many years as a nanny and in preschools and time outs can be very effective (on a chair, small rug, etc) but not if the child screams all the way through it and/or continues to carry on like a pork chop afterwards. Much of the point of it is for the child to realise that rotten behaviour is not acceptable and there is a consequence (having to sit still and perhaps reflect on it).

Giving a time out in a non-angry, matter of fact way and having a brief debrief afterwards is the best way I've found to modify unpleasant, tantrum attacks, and I've had a chance to practice on a lot of different kids of different ages, personalities and cultures.

Also, I find that timeouts in a fun place (like a bedroom) work less effectively than a time out in a restricted zone (like sitting on a chair or a small floor rug. One method I've used in the past with kids around 3-4 years is to sit them quietly and calmly on a small rug with a book or a toy car (just one thing, not a lot of choices) and it's up to them to sit quietly and not leave the rug for the 3-4 mins. If they do carry on, scream, leave the rug, throw things; the time out starts again. The child is not physically restrained and can walk away at any point but teaching/learning self control and consequence from the actions they choose is in my opinion, one of the most important aspects of time outs.

wow this sounds like akira who is 4.

Oh jeez - I just put my bag of rats to bed after a fight, and I was thinking how good it will be when I can reason with him.

Cue: BRAW BROW (wrong answer sound on "Temptation")

Don't tell me it gets HARDER - LOL!!!!!

My grandmother (evil b!tch that she is) had a clever way of stopping me in my tracks - she would show me my sulky face in a mrror and say look at your fish face, you look so silly! My mum similarly used to say "oh goodness me, everyone must be saying what a silly bad behaved girl you are - look, all the people are looking at you" (this esp works in public).

Not sure if you want to develop a social stigma complex in your kid (are you looking at me??? huh! are you talkin about me??) but it all helps, huh?

Ahh, us Junies are a fun lot, aren't we Nickel (mwah!)

We also use the naughty spot. It does seem to work very well. More so for my DS but it seams to be working for my DD now too (she's a little more full on). If they scream why they are on the naughty spot they come off to say sorry for what they were on there for in the first place and then they go back there for another 5 minutes (in my DS case) for screaming, they then come off and say sorry for screaming, this works very well and they now very really scream on the naughty spot.
Yesterday when I talked to my DS on the phone he told me he was naughty because he hit his sister on the head, but he then said that he was good because he put himself on the naughty spot and mummy didn’t tell him to go there. He can be such a darling, he really is such a soft hearted little boy (generally anyhow)