Pram / bicycle trailer

Morning all.
This is roryrory's bloke, Mick typing to you. The girl herself is at work and I'm home looking after the rugrat doing some research into prams. I like the idea of a bike trailer/pusher/jogger pram combination, such as one of the following brands, but I'm not fully convinced.

Chariot
Croozer
Burley
Pacific Trailer Runner
Kiddicarrier 202 - Alloy

The biggest drama here for me seems to be that they are designed first and foremost as bike trailer. The problem is that we primarily want a practical pram; the conversion to a bike trailer or cross country ski sled etc is a large bonus, but the majority of its life would be in and out of the back of the car going to the shops etc. I'd like to think I'd get out once or twice a week and take the kids for a ride, but the reality is it will spend most of its life as a pram.
Road rules (in Victoria, at least) require that trailer passengers must be under 12 and wearing a helmet, so these things don't seem to be designed with a fully reclining seat or some other contraption to accommodate a sleeping baby. Obviously, this would only be used when in pram mode. I can only assume that the manufacturers are perhaps worried about the "knuckle head cycling with a baby, baby is injured/killed in an accident, knuckle head sues" possibility if the reclining option is there. Along the lines of (if you can believe the Darwin awards - al la "it must be true, I read it on the internet!") the idiot that claims he thought the cruise control on his campervan was an autopilot, crashed, sued and won.

Anyway. I haven't actually had a chance to look at, play with etc any of the above to see what's what, but my wish list is for these points.
Low weight - easy for the lady to get in and out of the car
Suspension - seems to exclude all but the most expensive (of course!)
Two seats - all above have two seaters
Seats may be individually or both reclined - none appear to have
Rapid, tool-free folding/unfolding - have to look at each one to really tell, I suppose

The only reference to these things that the BB search function came back with was the post in this thread by Divvy:
https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...icycle+trailer

I would love to hear from Div or anyone that has used one of these things to see how good they are(nt?) in day to day life.

Mods, this is the real Roryrory here - I forgot to tell Mick to post this in the product discussion thread so could you please move it :)

Hi Mick/Roryrory,
I have the Pacific and you are right it is designed mostly to be used as a trailer. Although it does have the ability to become a stoller... a large one. It is easily folded but is still large and I don't think it would fit in to most car boots.

I find the belts are a bit of a hassle to figure out how they are supposed to be used properly, but they do the trick.

I have had both my girls fall asleep in the tailer even tho it does not have a recline option. I think for the recline option to be viable the seats may have to be backwards?? Not sure really.

That's all for the moment, sooking kids!

Tanya

Thanks for the feedback, Tanya. That your kid(s) sleep in one is a plus on the practicality side.

While I'm sure using one of these things as an everyday pram is definitely not for everyone, we would be prepared to put up with a some things to make it work. The general size of these trailer/prams seems to be on par with most side by side prams I've seen, so i think it really comes down to how well it will fold away (we drive a station wagon, so thats not all that critical) and how comfortable and practical it is for a newborn and toddler when used day to day as a pram. I couldnt give a toss about the asthetics (dunno 'bout the good lady) but some of them (from their websites, at least) dont seem to look too bad.

Thanks again, Tanya.
Keep it coming, people!

Oh, and the other thing I forgot to mention was load carrying capacity. At least one of them, (I forget which) appears to have some decent luggage space and this is a bit of a must in terms of fitting in shopping. Anyone tried pushing one of these down to the local ColesWorths or to the market? Good or bad in crowds, etc?

-Mick

Okay, Mick, here you are.
XH and I had (well he still has) the Pacific two seater. No recline option so we weren't able to use it until the kids were sitting up. So Alex used it from about 8 months, Ned from about 5 months. All those above are designed primarily for use as a trailer, rather than a pram.

From what I see, here are the advantages:
Easiest pram to push that I have ever ever used. Literally only need one finger to push it.
Great brakes. If the brakes are on, you can't actually move the pram at all.
Rain cover. Even hail and very heavy Melbourne rain doesn't permeate the cover (although the inside does get foggy after a while).
It's like a little cocoon.
Kids can't put their fingers/feet/arms/legs etc in the wheels.
You can go REALLY fast (if you're really fit) downhill (as long as you ignore the screams of joy from the back...)
You can roll back the rain cover for sunny days.
Alex and Ned still fit into it now (at age 4 and a very very large 20 months).
When used as a trailer or as a pram it FEELS very light.
You can attach lights etc to it for riding at night.
It's got some luggage carrying capacity behind the seat, enough for about three green bags full (YKWIM) or a rather large nappy bag and one green bag.
Easy to bounce up and down stairs, because the wheels are REALLY big!

Disadvantages:
Can't use it for a newborn. I have seen people put the rearward facing car seat into them and strap it in, however I do have some concerns about the safety of this, as well as the fact that the child MUST wear a helmet. Newborns shouldn't be wearing helmets at all, in fact the smallest available helmet, as far as I know, is 44cm, and babies won't necessarily reach this size until at least 4 months. We didn't put Ned into the trailer until he was 5 months, particularly because of this reason. It could have been used as a pram earlier, but I was concerned about him sitting up next to Alex (and Alex poking him etc!)
It weighs 19 kilos. If you're pushing it as a pram, you don't notice it at all. However, if you're collapsing it to put into the car, you definitely feel it. If you're pulling two kids, all their daycare gear and other stuff, it weighs about 50 kilos, which when you're on the bike, you DEFINITELY feel!
To fit it in our car boot (we had a Subaru) we needed to remove the wheels as well as collapse it. I don't think you would have that problem with a station wagon, but your rear vision would be an issue.
The handle (when used as a pram) is not adjustable. However, it's made for taller people so you and Rors would be fine with it. I found it a little too high, however my Dad who is 5'11" found it to be far better than any other pram, because of the height. So this can be an advantage or a disadvantage.
It's quite wide, so some supermarket aisles can be an issue. We used to shop at our local IGA and couldn't get it through the entrance, so would have to leave it outside. (Needed to carry a bicycle lock to lock it up somewhere, so some idiot wouldn't steal it!)
Non-rotational (fixed) front wheel when used as a pram.

I left it with XH when I left, however I still maintain it's the best "pram" I've ever used. Only issue was that I couldn't use it for a newborn.

Thanks for that one, Div.
Did you and XH go tyre kicking of any other brands than the Pacific? In which case, what did you like about that over any others, or was that the only one you looked at? I've seen an older pacific (maybe 5 years old) and I dont know if the design has changed since then, but it looked like there were several stages to folding/unfolding (not ideal) and the fixed front wheel (probably the same system as on your old one) didnt look too handy for close quarter manoeuvring.
Ive had a good look at and play with a Trek branded trailer. The seating and harness system on that was pretty much the same as the Pacific trailer I saw, which is to say very basic. However, the Trek manoeuvres far better than any pram I've pushed so far, (It has two fully articulated front wheels like a wheel chair and is very stable) including the current model Valco something-or-other twim pram. The Trek folds in one move, not three like the Valco and the 3+(?) of the Pacific trailer. The Trek (at 11 kg) is also substantially lighter than the Valco and Pacific. It also tows beautifully behind a bike and the boy LOVED being in it for the short test ride I was able to do, but pram functionality is our most important concern.
I was expecting there to be more in favour of a 'real' pram over a 'compromise' solution like a bike trailer, but the 'only' thing I can see that the bike trailer doesnt do as well or better than a conventional twin pram is the harness system and seat 'reclinability'.

These are generalisations I know, but here is what I've found at the moment:
**Dedicated twin pram benefits
Similar or narrower width
Better Harness
Reclinable seats - better suited to newborns

**Well chosen Bike trailer benefits
Lighter
As, and probably more manoeuvrable
Easier to fold and pick up
Much better weather protection
More storage space
(And of course, you can tow the kids behind a bike)

I have been told there are trailer brands out there that now have reclinable seats and/or are suitable for newborns as well as toddlers (when in pram mode, not while towing) which, with the benefits of trailers mentioned above, would be our ideal situation.

Any further thoughts on this would be much appreciated, people. :)

Thanks again, Div.
-Mick

Agree about the folding. It is a PITA. XH did most of the "looking" at the time we bought it (Alex was about 6 months old, so nearly 4 years ago now). I believe he had a really good look around what was available at the time, and couldn't find anything that reclined at all. Also the helmet issue with young babies was a big concern. Not so much as a pram, but definitely as a trailer. And you can't really put a newborn sitting up, they can get a lot of issues with their back, insides etc.

I've never had an issue with the harnesses with the Pacific. (unless you count Alex putting his own on, which could be an issue!)

I bought the Swallow Limo Lite tandem pram, for when Ned was newborn, and it DIDN'T suit at all... I've made other comments about it elsewhere, but wouldn't be recommending it.

Anyway, off to do the kinder run. Regards.

Just thought I would post an update - we bought the Trek bike trailer as a pram and Flynn LOVES it!! It is so easy to handle and at 27 weeks pg I can still lift it to get it into the back of the wagon without any dramas. Every time we take it out we get comments on how groovy it is LOL!

Now I just have to wait for DH to re-engineer the seating arrangements so it can take Flynn and a newborn - will post pics once its done.....

Ooooeeeeer... well done :D Can't wait to see how you get a newborn in!!

Tanya

Cool, Rors, well done Mick. Would love to see piccies when you get a chance.

just out of interest i was wondering what age you could put a baby/child into a bike trailor to use with the bike.... or one of those special seat thingi's that attach to your bike?

Rory - just wondering where you bought the bicycle trailer from? And (if you don't mind me asking) how much it was? DH and I are looking at getting something for DD....

TIA

MG

Howdy!

Emma I missed your post - kids need to wear a helmet when being towed behind a bike so I reckon they would have to be fully sitting up with head control before it was safe.

MG we bought the Trek from our local bike shop for $700 (rec retail was $900 but it was "new old stock" someone had ordered it a few years ago and didn't pick it up).

Trek trailers are the "poor cousins" of Chariot trailers. Chariot make bikes and sell really snazzy versions of the Trek as well as harnessing and seating systems for newborns and real young bubs - I am not sure if they are compatible with the Trek though. We looked at the Chariots but preferred the folding and brake mechanism on the Trek would you believe. Nice when the cheaper option is "better". Treks are now about $900 to $1000 but comparable Chariots were at least $1500 and the baby seating systems were extra on top ($100 for the "baby bivvy" and another $100 for the harness).

The Chariots, like the Trek, can be prams, joggers (with a single front wheel) or hitch to a bike, but also have attachments for cross country skiing and cross country running (where you hitch it to your waist like a rickshaw).

I think if you were prepared to spend the dollars a Trek (or Chariot, if it floats your boat) are really worth it, partly for the ease of movement, partly for the versatility, and partly for the weight - at 32 weeks pg I can still lift the Trek into the back of a station wagon without too many problems!!! Show me a twin pram that is that light!

Thanks heaps Rory! I had a look at it on the website and it looks great. I will have to show DH once he gets back on Sunday. Thanks for anwsering my questions!

MG

If anyone is interested.. Kmart has a product very similar on sale this week. I am going to check it out on Saturday as it is well and truly more in my price range. under $150 I think it was. It holds 2 children as well...