Why Don't We Know Anymore?

Am I confused and missing the obvious answer? Has my brain been baby-fried?
Why don't western (and who else?) women know when our babies need to go to the toilet?
I am sure our Grandmothers knew how to do this. I know why my Mum doesn't know, and that is because her and her Mum didn't communicate about growing up and maturing, babies or anything. How long ago did women know this?
And why should we keep our babies in nappies 24/7 until they are 3 or 4 years old? And even older for nights?
I am babbling. Sorry. Anyone's thoughts and opinions much appreciated. Just wondering.

Sorry, but I don't get the question. Am I suppose to know when my dd has to go to the bathroom? Do you know when you are going to go to the bathroom before you need to? I mean I don't wake up and think, mmm ok - today it will be 10, 13, and 17 bathroom time. I just don't know how we, as mum's, would be able to do that.
Think about nature - dogs also don't know when their pups need to go to the loo, they mess all over the place. Sure when they are little they are cleaned by the mother, but she does not pick them up and take them away from the bed if they need to toilet later, they just squat and wee.
Am I understanding you right?

I think it has a lot to do with disposable nappies. The children just don't feel wet with them so it is easier to just wee in them. I asked my mum about how old myself and my siblings were when we were toilet trained. She told me that my 2 brothers and sisters were trained by 18 months and I took a bit longer, nearly 2. She used cloth on us.
I don't think we can know exactly when they will go to the toilet but we can watch for the signs and try to learn them. I started doing what I believe is called toilet timing from when DD was about 10 or 11 months. Just about all poos were in the toilet and most wees, which saved heaps on washing. She is now making the transition from timing to knowing when she wants to go. I also used cloth nappies, don't know if this made a difference.

When DS is naked I know when he's about to urinate/defaecate... but as he urinates so frequently (at least once an hour) and I don't want my house messed up, he wears a nappy. Not hard to tell, a little hole opens up and 5 seconds later the mess starts. I'm sure if I were to not use nappies I'd look for other signs (there are some, but hard to read as I don't read them all the time).

DS isn't going to be in nappies until he is 4. I'm probably going to start introducing a potty next summer at the latest, but next summer for actual "if you need to go, you go here". Otherwise it will be sitting on the potty around poo-time and praises if he does anything in it. But he will tell me when he needs it, I won't tell him when he needs it. That sort of defeats the purpose, to my mind.

No, I didn't mean should we know before they do, I meant should we be able to read their signs as easily as we might sometimes be able to read their hunger signs. As in, yep, there's the sign she/he needs to go, and its off to the potty/toilet.

Captain, I was thinking that about the disposables. I think a lot of what I have been reading about TT is with cloth nappies.
Ryn, that was quite along what I was thinking (I think) about introducing the potty.

Thank you for your thoughts. I think I was over tired when I was trying to think last night. :redface:

I was thinking along a similar vein the other day as I know when DD was a newborn she seemed distressed at having to go in a nappy but I think because we praise so much at nappy change time (talking in a high pitched voice etc) they come to think that going in the nappy is praiseworthy. However I don't see nappies as a step backwards as they allow us more time to spend with our children in other ways

I think that if i wore my DD unnappied in a wrap on my back LITERALLY all day and slept with her LITERALLY all night as people did, of COURSE i would be able to predict when she would pee and poop! It would be a relevant part of her care, just as my breasts began to spray when a feed was due when she was tiny. We have "switched off" out attention to that detail because the nappy catches it.

I apparently TT at 11 months, but my dad confirms that i went on have a regular (4 or so a week) number of accidents until was 18-20 months old, so it's true IMO that kids aren't able to control before then. I don't even own a potty! DD gets put on the loo sometimes....that's it. SHe's never gone there, but when she's naked she often pees on the floor and i say "did you go weewee?" as she comes to the bathroom when mummy goes weewee and knows all about it ;)

I'm sure if you stop using nappies altogether Netix you will know when bubs needs to go pretty well all the time within a month or so.

Bec

Thanks guys!
I think I will just keep going as we are, lots of praising at nappy time too and that sort of thing. I don't really feel like having to continually have to run around with a mop, and I must say I'm not overly sold on the idea of going in public places.

I know it's been a while since this was posted but I thought I'd comment on what shannon and netix said about ec.

no, you do not have to sleep with them, and no, you do not have to be with them 24 hours a day. I take my dd to the toilet, have since 10 days old. I only co-slept for 15 days, just to get her used to the world, and I leave her with mum or DH, both of whom potty her almost as successfully as me. it only takes a day to tell the signals if you watch properly - then you can just tell everyone else what to look for if they are minding them. my baby is nappied almost all the time, but I let her have some nappy free time about 15-30 mins a day. I have never ever had a mess in teh house. I also don't let her pee in shrubs etc. Those who do let their babies do this probably find it more convenient, but I take my baby to the public toilet and she has learned to wait this long. I also take an ice cream container with a lid on it for a "porta potty" and I empty and clean it before I pack it up inside its plastic bag to take home. We have a container at mum's too, and I will use a laundry tub downstairs if I can't be bothered going upstairs to the potty. I figure I'm cleaning out pooey nappies in it anyway! I don't let her poo in that though- I can tell the difference. If I was stuck for a loo, of course I woudl let her use grass for a pee - people do that as adults sometimes! But a better solution if you want is to open up a disposable nappy and put it in a plastic bag or something. Let them pee in that then chuck it - better than doing it while the nappy is on and un-learning something.

I don't take her to potty too often (3 times in every wake period of about 1.5 hours, plus after a sleep and a car trip) and I often only have 3-4 wees in nappies a day. And our EC is quite successful at night too - sometimes completely dry all night. I will not take her during the night unless she's up for a feed which is rarely. She can hold it, or wet the nappy- her choice - but more and more she is dry in teh mornings. Without co-sleeping. Pottying is easy!

I think it is a cultural thing now, in that it is the norm for children if they are not toilet trained at a young age. Physically, most children are able to recognise when they need to go to the toilet by 18months, before that they are usually unable to control their bodies and are unable to recognise the cues. Of course there are children who are either side of the 18months age who can toilet themselves before or after but this is the general age when most children *should* be able to do it.
With younger children there are cues that we as parents could watch for and take them to the toilet, but TBH I just don't have the time to be constantly, closely watching my 5mth old to give me cues so I can take her to the toilet in time.