VCE ... need some info

OK, DSD is pretty sure she wants to do VCE here rather than finish high school in America.

I went to school in the UK, so I don't know much about VCE and don't want to spend ages wading through Department of Education websites when I can just ask you girls instead!

So ... I guess a few questions that spring to mind are:

Is it as hard going as everyone says?
Can you make up grades if you have a flaky spell?
Approximately what proportion is based on assignments vs exams?
If anyone has experience of the Australian vs American systems, is it harder than the US?
What happens if she's doing badly at the end of Year 11? I think I've heard that some schools encourage badly performing students to leave so as not to affect their statistics?

Any info would be appreciated. I'll make an appointment with the school too at some point but just want some preliminary info.

Hopefully someone will be able to help you more than I can.
I did mine just as they were phasing out the old system and bringing in the new system, so it was a combo of both. The new system (from what I remember) is based on these things called sacs. I can't remember what that stands for but they are like these tests/exams which are done in class. it is hard if you are not used to exam type situations, but year 11 is not worth as much as year 12 so it's kinda a practice year.
I didn't find it that hard, I got pass marks but didn't put in a lot of effort (never seemed to study as much as my friends, but did almost or just as well). I would have done a lot better if I had put in a bit more effort. IMO it is hard if you want to put the effort into getting amazing marks.
I don't think they particularly care about spelling, so long as they can understand what you are trying to say.
HTH a little :)

I did the VCE - i also did the change over years, but I did subjects with both....that was 8 years ago, and I think they have made some little changes again, but here goes.:

Is it as hard going as everyone says?
It is hard work - it isnt supposed to be easy!! But with good teachers and hell of a lot of work, it is more than doable. It is a state wide comparison though, so their scores are ranked with all other students in the state - you are competing with everyone. The final ENTER is a RANK.
The teachers are on the students sides though and there are several different testing methods designed to make it just as acheivable no matter how you perform in exams vs assignments, iykwim....

Can you make up grades if you have a flaky spell?
The VCE is a combined effort over 2 years of school - 1 Unit per Term, so four units per subject. You have to successfully pass a set number of UNITS in order to gain your VCE, over both years. So it is about application. You can make the grades up by virtue of the fact that the testing is ranging and varied, and is conducted through out the year in a series of set tasks, tests or exams called SACS these are usually completed in class time, with or without 'cheat sheets' or input from teachers, other students...you will be able to get the structure info from the website (though it is not as complicated as it would seem)
There are still final exams each year for most subjects, performing and visual arts subjects have practical based assessments as well as theory.

Approximately what proportion is based on assignments vs exams?
Again, find this on the website. When I did it, there were 3 SACS per semester and 1 final exam per semester. that may have changed by now. The proportion of the scores was varied depending on the subject stream, again find it on the website, or school - I cant remember exactly and dont want to mislead you!

If anyone has experience of the Australian vs American systems, is it harder than the US?
NFI - sorry! lol

What happens if she's doing badly at the end of Year 11? I think I've heard that some schools encourage badly performing students to leave so as not to affect their statistics?
Your stats still count, even if you leave and take it up again later (I did this due to family reasons)
Each Unit has an end value score but also a "S/N" component - ie SATISFACTORY or NOT lol Some work is graded purely on whether or not it is handed in....all requirements must be completed (ie submitting work and SITTING the exam) for you to receive an S for the subject Unit. So even if she fails the exam, SAC, she can/must still have an S for that subject in order to call the unit complete. This is relevant to what I mentioned about about the requirement to have certain numbers of units 1 2 3 AND 4 completed.
NB Unit 1 and 2 (Year 11) can be taken as individual units so you can do Literature 1 semester and Drama the next , but Units 3 and 4 must be taken together - the whole year and some subjects (maths, languages, etc) will require all consecutive units to be completed and to have other pre-req's.....if that makes any sense!! lol
So in short, she can and SHOULD still progress to year 12 no matter her results, she may need to choose different subjects, and she must still complete the required number of Units from year 11AND 12 with an S to be allowed to pass her VCE in the end of year 12. (she can graduate year 12 and not gain VCE (without being awarded an ENTER)...unless that has changed)


I hope some of that helps!
VCE requires discipline....as the subjects are elective, and most uni courses will have certain pre-req subjects to enter that stream in Uni, it is important that she has some direction at the outset, so she will have the drive to stay the course. 2 years is a long time in high school and the way it is set up it does require that concentration.
Having said that, and having done 1 year at private and 1 year at public schools, I personally would say to you that the choice of schools is VITAL - she has to get along with her teachers for the most part, or at least be able to get the most out of them. The school also has to be equipted to teach the subjects she wishes to study (especially performing and visual arts classes) so once you have all decided that she is going to do VCE sit down and discuss her preferences for career, uni courses, and subjects, then look at the schools if you can. If she needs direction and to discipline, then private schools are fantastic...a public school will generally be a lot less likely to chase her up and apply the pressure and support needed to complete it if she is having troubles....if that makes sense! If she is independent and able to work very well independently then public schools are fantastic as she will have the freedom....and that is ace, if she can handle it :)

Which school will she be going to do you know?...

HTH...sorry if its a bit of a ramble! lol

Lex :)

Hi fiona,

I don't have any experience about VCE. I did QCS which I think is different to the VCE and HSC system.
You could try this page... info collected all on one page which might help... Victorian Certificate of Education Index - VCE - VCAA

I just wanted to contribute to this part of your questions....

:

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Can you make up grades if you have a flaky spell?
What happens if she's doing badly at the end of Year 11? I think I've heard that some schools encourage badly performing students to leave so as not to affect their statistics?

---

Ok, I struggled in my Year 11 and 12, a lot of different stuff happened and I put school at the back of my mind. Without the support of my school I don't think I could have completed Year 12 and got my certificate. It's really important that if your DSD is having some trouble with school or outside of school that you both go to her teachers and the guidance officer, make them aware of it, and get her support. If they don't know whats going on for her, then they might just think she isn't committed and they won't put the effort into helping her IYKWIM? Let the school know. They want your DSD to pass, and they will help if they know how.

You all might not want to share some info with the school, but the more they know the more they can help and allow her special consideration if its warrented. At least, they can give her extra help to pass. As long as she really wants to do it.

The others have answered most of your questios so I'm going to just be brief.


Can you make up grades if you have a flaky spell?
Not in the sense of make up tests or extra credit to improve your grade. Because the score you get at the end of the year is a rank you can only be assessed on the same assignments and exams that everyone else taking that subject in that did. (which is weird with english when different schools study different books..)

Is it as hard going as everyone says?
It depends on the subjects chosen and on the aptitude and application of the student, but the workload is very high. I was doing at least 4-5 hours of study/homework a night all year, and with assignments and exam time that just increased. But I also chose to do 6 subjects that year when most kids do 5 and the minimum is 4.

WRT schools asking you to leave at the end of year 11 - this is a Private school thing, and its not necessarily all schools that do it. It definitely does happen though - I know 2 people who were 'encouraged' to change schools because the school didnt think they would pass VCE and wated to keep their 100% pass rate.

As was said before, if she wants to go to uni, then you need to start there. Find out what the prerequisite subjects are and make sure that the school you choose offers them. Same applies if shes not sure what she wants to do but wants to study in certain subject areas - not all schools will offer the same subjects, or have the same facilities.

Thanks for all your advice everyone.

Look, I really hope she proves me wrong but I think she will struggle with VCE because she's not motivated and doesn't like school. So even if I wasn't very philosophically opposed to private schools (JMO), I don't think sending her to one would necessarily help and based on her previous grades I think we may be faced with a tough job getting her into one. Having said that though, she's had a very unstable home life for the last couple of years to-ing and fro-ing between the US and here so I think that has a lot to do with it.

Our local public school has a very good reputation and she attended there last year but mucked around a lot.

We've already had lots and lots of discussions about the importance of doing your best at school so as to keep as many career options as possible open, but I'm hoping that if she comes here for Year 10 that will give her enough time to settle down before applying herself for VCE.

Failing that, we'll just try and get her interested in SOMETHING whether it's retail/hospitality/whatever and encourage her to get a part-time job so she can see if she would like to pursue that when she leaves school.

hi
i only did my vce about 2 and a half years ago.
it is really not that hard i dont think.
depending on which subjects she chooses.
um if she is doing badly well she has the choice to leave, but most schools encourage the student to get outside help (eg tutors) or some teachers are even willing to give up their spare time just to help out.
It all depends on which school you pick.....

Oh, I just wanted to addone more thing..... students can study a traineeship/apprenticeship while also studying the VCE, and it can go towards it... its called VCE VET.

I was about to say that too Leasha, in NSW and I guess Vic you can do VET courses as part of your VCE/HSC in things like hospitality, childcare etc.

Thanks Leasha - I think something more practical/vocational might be the go. I just don't want to be one of those (step) parents who despite all the evidence to the contrary maintain an unrealistic belief that their child is going to blitz their VCE.

fiona - I can understand what ou are saying abut a vocational avenue probably being better, based on her past performance...But I just wanted to say that those vocational avenues generally require just as much, if not more (quite frankly) applicatin and especially passion as an acadenic /university stream. If you want to keep her options open you would be better (imo) to steer towards Arts....it will give her options, and something non-specific to focus on.
It is EXTREMELY difficult for apprentices if they are not passionate about the stream....I can only talk from the hospitality POV, but apprentices who are ther purely cos they couldnt think of anything else to do dont get very far and honestly arent wanted by most employers anyway. I have seen sooo many kids think that doing a chefs apprentice or a hairdressing apprenticeship will be easy, they can leave school and get a job and everything will be wonderful, only to see them pull out, crash and burn and not have any options left open to them. Even if she doesnt go to uni, having a VCE is HUGE plus, even in a vocational path post-VCE...

Good luck!! :)

I'm inclined to agree with limeslice. VET is a great addition to VCE but a lot of apprenticehips and traing courses require a VCE pass as well as a pre-req. now.

I also think you are right about trying to get her over here for year 10, to see how she settles down to being in the one place for a full school year. It must be incredibly difficult to be back and forth, with all that disruption and uncertainty that that brings.

I know what you're saying Limeslice and I agree with you. I didn't mean to imply that vocational stuff/apprenticeships are easy. Not at all. But they may suit her better in that she can immediately see the link between what she's learning and a job rather than more academic subjects.

I'm hoping that we can encourage her to get a part-time job in Year 10 and if she loves it, great ... and if she doesn't she'll see what sort of job she'll be in if she doesn't finish VCE.

We're not trying to force her down a certain career path now and have told her that if she's not sure what she wants to do, that's fine but the best thing to do is do well at school and leave as many options as possible open. That message just isn't working unfortunately!

We're going to get her to have a chat with her cousins (closer to her age group) - some of whom did fairly well in their VCE and some who didn't do so well and are now in their 20s, still living at home and drifting. Hopefully that will give her a few things to think about but at the end of the day, there's only so much you can do isn't there?

I'm quite prepared to give her any assistance possible. I'm not going to do her homework for her (that's just cheating in my book) but I'm happy to guide her where I can. But nor am I going to force her to do homework; she has to have the motivation and self-discipline to do that herself.

It's difficult for me because I was a very high achiever at school despite coming from a household that had no books and parents who encouraged me to watch TV rather than, "having your head stuck in those books." So while I'm willing to encourage and assist, I think of all those other thousands of kids out there who do not have people around them to encourage and assist them. It seems mightily unfair to me that some kids have all the advantages and supportive parents and others don't have any of that but still manage to have the get up and go to do it on their own. I would hate to think that if I spent hours and hours on homework with her she is actually taking away the uni place of some poor kid in a housing commission flat who's just come to Australia and is managing to do their homework unprompted despite sharing a bedroom with three other siblings and missed out on a uni place by a few measly points. Yeah, I know I'm just a bleeding heart. Anyhow, I'm off my own topic and will get off that little soapbox I made for myself now!

Maccas may be a good place to start when looking for a p/t job for her. My aunty is a careers adviser and she says that Maccas experience looks great on your CV and they also put kids through the VET hospitality course (DD is doing it ATM) it can also lead to a career with them in management if she wants as well. I kow people slag them off but I have been so happy with them as an employer for DD. They even have paid for a maths tutor website for all employees to access free.