help....no routine!!!!!!!

How do I get my 3.5mth old into a routine??? He is all over the shop. He has a routine for about 3 days and then changes and keeps the next one for 3 or 4 days and so on and so on. It is driving me bonkers. He is so hard to put down for a nap during the day and when he does go down it's only for 20 mins or a max of 40 mins.
He won't sleep if I notice his tired signs and put him in the cot...he will just scream and scream. it's even gotten to the point where we have started putting him in our bed so we can all get some sleep. i don't want that to keep going on though. i don't know how to go about it all. if anyone has been in the same situation your feedback would be gratefully appreciated

My 4 month old won't usually sleep during the day if I put him in his cot either - but on the floor with a relatively boring toy seems to work better...
He'll also nap better if we are out and about - either in the carseat, pram or sling. He seems to find shopping centre chaos soothing!
I just try to give him opportunities to sleep during the day - by going for a walk or playing on the floor. If he's really tired he takes them. But he will rarely have a big sleep in the day.

I find that they change their sleep/waking patterns really frequently. Once I see tired signs I put DD in her cot even though she won't sleep- it is her down time and mine. I leave her there for about an hour as long as she is only playing, not screaming. Work out how long your DS needs to sleep (there are charts in books etc that are only guides) in 24 hours- say 16 hours, for example. Then if he has 12 hours at night, he needs 4 during the day. Divide these into 3 for a morning, midday and afternoon nap and put him down at set times eg 9am, 12pm, 3pm even though sleep may not happen. He may be overtired if he is screaming when you put him in. Could you feed him to sleep until he gets back into a napping pattern? If putting him inyour beds works foryou, keep doing it. There is no harm. Don't worry too much about routine. As I said, it will change again anyway and will do so for the next year maybe.

Go and get yourself the book, save our sleep by Tizzie Hall. I had the same problem with my DS. He was driving me insane. I ad the book in the cupboard from my first bub, and didnt really use it as she is such a good sleeper. I have had my DS on her routine for the past 3 days and now he is sleeping two large sleeps during the day and at night he goes from 7.00pm to 7.00am. The routines have to be followed to the dot, but its well worth it!!

Good luck... The book save our sleep has a website so you can download a routine for a small cost online. I got the book, it has lots of tips and advice.

most babies don't come with a routine.... they are little individual creatures and not something you can make function based on a clock. in all honesty my dd's days didn't start resembling anything like a routine until around 10months when her sleep started settling down.... there's nothing wrong with taking each day as it comes and following your baby's lead each day, in fact i would recommend it. in my personal experience of spending the first six months obsessing about getting my baby into a routine, they are absolute BULLS#%T!! i wasted a good deal of time trying to force her to be predictable, which i now realise was a completely unrealistic expectation... if your baby comes with some predictability then great, what a bonus, but if not (like most) i certainly wouldn't worry about it..... (now that i know better!!).... just enjoy the freedom of not having to watch a clock!!

Hello
Some babies thrive on routine, others don't seem to.
I've found with mine the best thing I can do is just try to be consistent.
No matter how much sleep they've had the night before, I get them up at 7:00 and start over.
Jordan's usually ready for another sleep by 9:00, and from then on around every 2 hours, with a micro nap while he's feeding around 4:30 - 5:00, and then down at 7:00 again.
My eldest still wakes around 7:00 on her own, has a nap at midday and is down again at 7:00 at night.
hth

thanks for all the replies. I guess I would just feel more in control (bit of a control freak :rolleyes:) and find it a little less daunting going out if I knew what i was in for, but as it is, it's different every time I step out of the door. I never know what is going to happen. I suppose I will just have to take it like it is and not fight it cause it seems to just be making matters worse.

Hi Rustygirl,

My DD who is about the same age as your DS does the same thing. I recorded her sleepig and eating pattern and as soon as i thought she had a routine she changes on me!

She still doesnt sleep through the night and feeds twice during the night. I asked the nurse about that and she said 1 out of 20 babies sleep through the night, so BB is perfectly normal.

Her day sleeps are like 20 - 30 mins then she wakes up and wants to watch tv on my lap !!

I know what you mean about trying to get into a routine as it will be so much easier to plan things. Hopefully, they will develop a routine as they get a little older. For the mean time hang in there and enjoy staring at those beautiful wide awake eyes =)

Hi RustyGirl,

Big :hug: to you all! being a mum is a pretty hard job, full of challenges, love and desperation!

The joy of sleep is such a distant memory in those first 6 months...but it does get better!

I think the best bit of advice i was given with DD was that no matter what you do, be consistent and persistent. the same way your bub gives you tired signs, give them bedtime signs. this might be swaddling, feeding (i know many might say this is a no no, but hey, if it works for you run with it!), massaging, bathtime or a nursery ryhme. it is something they learn, and after awhile, they realise that they have nothing to be worried about, they know you are there and will be there when they wake up.

for us personally we tried not to fret too much about the daytime sleeps (esp when she was in the first 6 months). we would go out during the day (she slept well in the pram from the movement). and if she only had 40 minutes that was fine (basically, 40 minutes is one full sleep cycle...ie passing from light REM to deep sleep and 20 minutes is just the REM). i figured that as long as she got some the deep sleep then she would be ok. if you're finding bubs is waking after only 20 minutes, try to get them back to sleep, otherwise in 30 minutes, you've got angry pants on your hands! LOL! try to go through your sleep routine with them...this can be easier said than done!

as for night, we were a bit more firm and had a consistent pattern for her (which we still follow!). basically come bedtime (for us is 6.30) we start the sleep routine of bath, massage, pyjamas and a feed (when she was younger and still swaddled we did a loose wrap while she was feeding so when we put her in the cot we only did minimal fussing!). we did this in her room with the lights really really low. then popped her into bed. if she cried, we would go in and pat or cuddle her, but always put her back into her cot. if it went for an hour we would get her up, and start to resettle, nappy check, feed and swaddle. and this generally did the trick. it didnt take long for her to realise what we were doing and since then, she hasnt been frightened of going to sleep. it is amazing what these bubs are capable of understanding. they love knowing they are secure, and it's just a matter of finding a way to make your bub feel safe...

As for the tired signs, they can move soo quickly from being signs to just being plain tired. sometimes, (as i found with DD) it would be just a matter of her looking to the side (ie not making eye contact) and by the time we got the 'grizzling' or 'jerky movement' stage it was too late and she was overtired.

HTH.

P.S. if you are getting really exhausted i recommend ringing a sleep school. many of the mums in here have been to them, and they have really turned their (sleeping) lives around! places like tweddle use gentle (ie not control crying) techniques that might suit you. some places also run day schools. i went to one of those when DD was 6 weeks old and helped me out no end

Cassius, It was so refreshing to read your post. Thanks for the kind supportive words.

It made me feel better about what I am doing at the moment re Cohen's sleeping habits.
We used to have to pat or rock Cohen to sleep and it was just taking up so much of our time and then he'd wake up anyway because he fell asleep in my arms and woke up in his cot. Well as of the other day I decided that it was time for him to learn to go to sleep with out the patting and rocking. He already had a bed time routine (Bath, pj's, bottle, wrap and then we'd pat him to sleep) The other day I introduced him to music while he sleeps and everytime he went down for a nap I'd play it. So now the whole routine goes:
Bath, Pjs, bottle, music on, wrap, put him in his cot, dummy, a little stroke on his forehead (he loves it) kiss goodnight and I leave. It has taken a couple of times of me re wrapping and putting his dummy back in, but it seems to be working so far, and yesterday and today for his daytime naps, he has had about 3hrs all up on both days!! Woo hoo! Like you said Cassius, consistency is the key. I just have to keep it up and I think that he will get used to it and one day won't need me to keep coming in and helping him a little!

Oh RustyGirl that is awesome news!! wow 3 hours!! You go Cohen, you little champ!

and yeah, once they get the hang of what's going on, they do learn really fast. this is not to say that they aren't going to test us every inch of the way!! but as long as we are consistent they cope really well. and the end result is a happy gorgeous (unbiased mummy opinion alert! LOL!) bub!

The music idea sounds good. lots of bubs just dont like the quiet environment...in SCU where leila was when she was born they had the radio going 24/7, and at the kindy they have music going constantly in the nursery where the bubbies sleep...so there must be a reason for it!!

And you're right. one day he will probably just nod of to sleep and you'll be left standing there going "hang on"!! LOL!
With Leila she eventually learnt to 'self-settle' (and it didnt take long...). she now goes into bed awake we tuck her in and i say 'night night' or something along those lines and close the door. 99% of the time she nods off...that said, there are the occasions when (usually during the day sleeps), being like the rest of us, she's like: 'yeah, i'm tired, but there is sooo much fun to be had'....i have found this to be particularly true since she hit the 6 month mark and discovered the joys of sitting up like a 'big girl'.

Good luck with it all. and remember to give yourself a break! make sure to have a nice quiet time in a big bubble bath while someone (DH, DP, mum or MIL...) watches Cohen for 30 minutes. (i chose to have 'me' time during the arsenic hour of 5-6pm while DH went for a walk with Leila...he he he).