Crying it out...is that what I am doing?

My son is 4 mths and old after a recent holiday is totally out of wack with sleep. He sleeps well when he goes down which is around 7 pm and has two overnight bottle at 10:30 and again between 3 and 4. I have inadvetantly made him dependent on rocking to get him to sleep and three days ago started putting him down awake in his crib to learn how to self settle. The first day it took him between 45 and 30 min aprox, yesterday it took about 20 -30 min and today anywhere between 15 and 30 min. He doesn't cry as such just the occasionaly loud 'waa' with pauses. If he startes to creams or sounds like a wet cry (a continuos cry with tears) I go in straigh away and bring him back out.
So my question is it ok to leave him on his own to settle if I know he is clean, full and not in any trouble? Some of the reading I have done lately says it is and it is making very confused.

Seth used to grizzle, but a cry is way different to that. And if he was unsettled but not crying I still would stay with him till he was calm before I left the room. Some babies do have a bit of a grizzle but so long as its not a big cry I would say no its not CIO.

I leave Jesse to grizzle. If he's still grizzling after about 10 minutes I go in.
If he starts to get upset I go in.
When I go in, I re wrap him give him a cuddle & the dummy if just the dummy doesn't work, then put him back down & do it again.
Right now he's been in there not making a sound for about 10 minutes - refuses to go to sleep tonight. He's just started talking/winging. I'll give it til he's just winging, not breaking it up with talking to go in.
There he goes. Off to try & sleep.

sounds like you are doing a great job....

look i don't think there is a definitive right or wrong, yes or no answer.... everyone has their own opinion, but you just have to do what works for you and your baby, and what you feel comfortable with.... if you feel comfortable rocking him in your arms for half an hour before bed then that is fine, or on the other hand, if you are comfortable with teaching him to self settle in his cot with a bit of waaa-ing or grizzling, then that is fine too.... its up the the individual, and what works for some babies won't work for others... you're the mummy and you have to just trust your instinct and do what you deem right for you and bubs, ignore everyone else (!!!)...

my two cents is, its important to give bubs the opportunity to self settle, a bit of protesting and grizzling is fine and certainly isn't going to harm him, a serious cry though, at this age, i would be consoling and soothing him..... i do understand though that self settling wont work for all bubs and i honestly think our expectations on babies are way out of control (i wish i didnt expect so much in the early days, maybe i wouldn't have been so disappointed?)... on the other end of the spectrum, i have left my dd to cry it out for longer periods, because anything i did to help her ONLY MADE IT WORSE.... i think its all about flexibility and doing what is right at the time.... it will continually change.... once they learn language it does make it a heap easier, as you can explain that its time for bed, so they know whats going on.... until then try to be predictable and have a mini routine before each sleep or nap.... for us its usually a bottle, say goodnight to the fish in the fish tank, cuddle teddy and into bed...

good luck xx

Thanks for the suggestions ladies. I do have to say I have noticed an improvement. Today he went down for two naps happily and did not protest. I gave him his dummy and blanket and off he went. When I put him down tonight he waa-ed for about 10 min and then sleep. This is much better the 3 days ago when he was on and off for ages. I think we might be starting to get there.

That's great that what you're doing is working Macca.

FWIW, I chose a middle ground which was rocking DD to a relaxed, sleepy state but never putting her down asleep. If she got upset, I would either just start again or after a few goes, I would get her up. I think that taught her to self-settle and now she's a fantastic sleeper. Tonight she WAVED to me and gave me a big smile when I put her to bed!

I could never quite believe it when people said they could put their babies down without doing anything and they would self-settle. But DD did gradually get there and I'm glad I did what I did.

Thats what we did too fiona. We did a combination of both, I would see if we could settle in the cot first by shhhing and gentle stroking of the face. If not then we'd pick him up till he calmed down and try again. Its such an awesome feeling watching it work and seeing him get better at sleep each day. And it was a lot less stressful than trying to put up with screaming of overtiredness (in my arms) or in the cot (as we had tried with Paris).

Well I really hope I can get Jesse back to that stage when he gets over his flu.
He was an excellent sleeper for the first 10 weeks, but not since. We were getting back there til he got a sore throat. He cried for 3 days before I got him looked at.
I really hope he's better soon. I haven't slept in so long.

Sorry to hear your little man is unwell Skye. I hope your able to get some sleep soon, I know how hard it can be when you can only get an hour here and there. :hug: for you and your little man.

Thanks Macca. We're getting there. He woke for feeds last night, but slept all night.
He was easier to get down tonight too. So hopefully its finally getting better!
Glad things are better for you guys too.

My take on it is if the baby is "talking" (ie the odd "waa" but not upset) then that's not crying it out. If the baby is crying and distressed than that's "controlled" crying.

With DS, we wait until he's crying rather than talking and if he still won't sleep and we get frustrated then we let him cry for a bit. He knows we go to him as soon as he needs us... but also that we're human and have enough! We leave him until we're calm (usually 2-5 mins) and then go back and he settles a little bit more quickly - but not enough so we're tempted to let him cry!

Sometimes he talks himself to sleep, sometimes he cries for ten seconds then sleeps, sometimes he wants us to hold his hand, sometimes he wants patting... I just wish that it was consistent and he'd do it all by himself every night!

Thaks for clearing that up for me Rosehip.
I tried to work out the difference in another thread & it ended up turning into a big 'discussion' about control crying & weather or not its any good. I never actually got an answer.
I was told that cc was cc no matter how you look at it???

I think it's controlled crying - if your baby isn't crying then how can it be controlled crying?

I hate letting DS cry but I know that it isn't controlled: either he isn't or I'm not, and if I'm patting him I need to be in full control. I'd rather let him cry for a minute or two (or just the fifteen seconds it takes to change parents) than beat him up for not sleeping.

Yeah, well I've found that if I try to pat/rock/walk Jesse its harder to get him to sleep.
I fI lay him in the cot & go back & forth with the dummy at the end when I pick him up he will settle, but he needs that time in the cot first to let him know its time for bed iykwim. Otherwise he thinks its playtime & won't settle no matter how dark & quiet it is.
& if I'm in the room & he can see me it's harder too.

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Yeah, well I've found that if I try to pat/rock/walk Jesse its harder to get him to sleep.
If I lay him in the cot & go back & forth with the dummy at the end when I pick him up he will settle, but he needs that time in the cot first to let him know its time for bed iykwim. Otherwise he thinks its playtime & won't settle no matter how dark & quiet it is.
& if I'm in the room & he can see me it's harder too.

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That's exactly like my little man, I really enjoyed rocking him and holding him till he went to sleep, but, now he flat out refuses. He squirms and twists until I put him in his hammock. Sometimes he will fall asleep as soon as I put him down or sometimes he will lay there and "talk" for a couple of minutes or grizzle untill I put his dummy back, but he always puts himself to sleep now. He has done this since about 10 weeks when I got the hammock. It's a godsend!! I do miss cuddling him to sleep though, so now at his early morning wakeup i feed him then have him snuggle and sleep in bed with me.

Macca, you are doing a wonderful job, and letting baby have a little grizzle is not controlled crying. Remember babies do get a little restless around 4 months as they usually have a little growth spurt.

Actually bjrose that was my comment about CIO and I wasn't talking to you specifically. I was referring to another comment (not about whinging vs crying), if you wish to discuss anything with me feel free to talk to me anytime :)