Fights sleep

My Ds has never slept well, since 8 weeks anyway where he would scream if I put him in his cot. I ended up rocking him to sleep up to about 16weeks when I put him in his cot, let him cry but stayed with him the whole time and if he got distressed would get him up. I know it wasn't really gentle but I was leaning over the cot holding him but didn't pick him up unless I had to. It took about 3 days then he self settled. He was sleeping ok overnight too, wakign about 4 hourly. THis continued for about 2 months when he refused to go back in the cot again and to settle after being away. We have had problems ever since. I have ended up feeding him to sleep except this now doesn't work.

He really fights sleep, if he doesn't want to go to sleep he won't. Even if he is doing a double eye rub, grizzling, yawning the works. I can pat him or whatever till the cows come home he either grabs my hand and plays with it or pushes it away or gets upset and will not settle even when picked up. I will try to feed but he won't always take it.

I think he is just so interested in everything else he doesn't want to sleep as he might miss out. how can I help him overcome this?
We went through a week or so of a great routine where he would feed to sleep and was having longer sleeps overnight. We are now back to a fight to get him to sleep and waking 1-2hourly. He will only resettle with a feed.

I have brought the Elizabeth Pantley book - "No cry sleep solutions" and am just starting my nap log today. The thing is how I was getting him to sleep is not working and I don't know what else I can do. I have just finally got him to sleep after hours of trying. Itry the boob, offer a bottle to see if he is interested, put him back on the floor for a bit, Lie down in my bed with him, let him play in his cot, put music on, pat, cuddle and again lie down in my bed with him as he would not stop crying. Eventually he went to sleep with me singing.

I know he is overtired and I try to settle him as soon as I see the tired signs but he won't settle, just gets distressed. What can I do?

This probably makes little sense but I am a bit sleep deprived.

Luey - I'm chasing you round the sleep threads today!

We had great success with the no-cry solution early on, until things went to poo a couple of months ago (explained in that other thread....)
Now DS is sooooo much like yours. Sometimes, if he's absolutely knackered, he'll feed to sleep (but not without a struggle usually), otherwise only my DH can get him to sleep, and only then with a lot of effort. Sometimes, he just WON'T, just like your boy. He sleeps 40 minutes at a time max during the day, and lately only 1-2 hours at a time overnight (though we did have a much better night last night, though who knows when that might be repeated.)
He's exactly the same with grabbing our hands or slapping them away. Or he's scratching at the cot rails or thumping the mattress...
I know lots of people say you should avoid eye contact or smiles or whatever when you're trying to get babies to sleep, but for DS I think the opposite is true. Particularly if he's upset, we get him laughing first. Do the things he loves, so he's relaxed, and try again. Sometimes, once he's relaxed, something monotonous - like singing the same tune over and over or shhhing - will get him to drop off.
Sorry I don't have any real advice for you. The last time DS was this overtired we broke the cycle by getting him to sleep 5-6 hours a day by carrying him round in the HUB all day (or rather, my DH did). But not sure that we could do that now...
Certainly hope that things improve soon

Hi Guys,

Wondering how your bubba's are sleeping? don't have much advice to offer as I now lay down with DS for all sleeps & if I don't stay with him he will still wake up after 30 mins or so. We are now co-sleeping, not exactly ideal but is working, I don't notice so much at night anymore as he wakes, I feed him & he goes back to sleep.

Marcellus, interesting that you mentioned about laughing helping sleep.

Laughter releases various hormones in the brain which aid sleep, the hormone I'm thinking of is... melatonin. (Got there in the end!) We find that DS sleeps a lot better if we do loads of giggles just before his bath. And even during his bath sometimes, we have peek-a-boo with the shower curtain if I'm on the loo and rubber duck fights.

We also have songs. We have one song pre-bath, one for in the bath, another for when he's in his bed and lights off. The song stops him talking, which then means he can wind down (he just doesn't shut up!). The songs help him link in what's about to happen so he's happier. Oddly enough, he had one song (Strauss' Blue Danube... just try singing that!) for day naps but no way would he have that for a night sleep, he would only have the little song I made up for him when he was a tiny baby.

DS was a shocking sleeper at 7-8m old. Really dire. He'd be up almost every hour. I kept everything "night-time" and co-slept, which helped us a bit. His sleeping went downhill at 8w old, 4-5m was awful, 7-8m another bad patch, 11-13m wasn't too great but I think my expectations here were higher.

Now if he's really up and going in the middle of the night it's a one-off (it does end eventually!) so I let him play and he ends up snuggling up with me a couple of hours later and having a lie-in. But there is no way I'd have let him do that as a baby because he's not going to learn he can play in the middle of the night!

Rosehip Fairy - my DH 'swing-lows' DS to sleep. That's his special sleep song. Singing doesn't really work for me though (it relaxes him, but doesn't get him off to sleep.)
njd - I'm sleeping on a mattress in his room. As you say - much better now that he's right there. He goes to sleep very easily beside me and if he wakes a quick cuddle or feed and we're both back to sleep. I still try putting him in his cot - sometimes he'll stay there. We had 3 nights last week where he woke up only once! But otherwise has been pretty crap and day sleeps even worse - can't lay down with him as I'm working.
But yeah, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Luey - how're you guys doing?

We are having some better nights (only waking 2-3 times) occassionally but is still a battle to get him to go to sleep. The other day I dusted off the Fisher price swing and he slept for almost 2 hours:dance:. Hasn't repeated that but when he woke in the cot the other afternoon and wouldn't settle but was still tired we used that and he slept again.
HE will just fight and fight and fight. I just tried to put him down after him showing his tired signs but no dice. I left him in the cot to 'grizzle' it was more a noise . I know I know it's not gentle but he was happy when I left and never did he get distressed. Every time I went in I got smiles and laughs when I was rubbing his back. At the moment he is playing happily on the floor but it could all change in a second. WHoops just has. Happy again.

I can't wine though I pay attention to his tired signs and he doesn't sleep but last night when I didn't I think he got overtired and wouldn't settle either.

I have thought of putting him on a mattress on the floor. Possibly with me, not sure. Sometimes in the afternoon he will go to sleep with me but it takes a while.

Jsut really going around in circles here

Luey, our boys sound so similar - maybe we should start a club :wall:
When I first started trying to sleep with him, it didn't work too well - it was still hard to get him to sleep and he would wake constantly. But now that he's used to it, I feel so much better. We both sleep better. I have no real idea how many times he wakes up in the night cause I never really wake up fully. He now goes to sleep very easily beside me - often I don't have to do anything at all, just being there is enough. I still try him in teh cot to begin with - sometimes he's happy in there and will sleep well - but if he's waking constantly I take it as his way of saying "Mummy, I can't sleep on my own tonight" and we sleep together.
If you're comfortable with the idea, I really suggest you give it a go. Just be prepared to stick with it for a while cause it can be a bit of an adjustment for you both (as is anything). Otherwise, use the swing or whatever works! At this point you've both just got to get some sleep however you can.
Oh, and BTW, I've left DS in his cot to roll & grizzle & yell & "talk" before. Largely in the blind hope that he'll drop off to sleep. Doesn't work though (does it?), and he's always so glad to see me when I come back, though he never gets distressed about it.
OH, and have you read nighttime parenting? I've been skimming it last couple of days - it's making me feel better about the situation and my current 'solution'.

I have just started re-wrapping DS and not wanting to jinx myself lets just say I won't be discontinuing it. He will settle within 10-15mins with a hand on his chest and one on the mattress patting it with a finger. I am also getting him up earlier when he wakes 630-7 instead of putting him back to bed. Means I have an early-ish start but he has been back in bed about 9. Of course it will probably go pear shaped tomorrow but yesterday and today it was ok.

The second time I wrapped him for a day sleep he did cry but I was with him the whole time and touch wood he hasn't since. HE is not crying when he sees the cot anymore and I can put him in the cot wrapped without the dummy. I do put it in when he lies down but he doesn't fight being wrapped. He will also resettle with my help

Still a long way to go but I am hopeful but not wanting to get my hopes up too much.

Good news Luey!
Even just a few good days can really make all the difference. I do hope it continues though

Luey, do you want to hear our success story? I never thought our sleep issues would ever end with our DD.

Our DD co-slept with us from birth. She never liked the bassinette or the cot, just wanted Mummy all the time. This was draining on me when she was little, being a first time Mum and all, never knew what to expect and wondered if it was something I could control. She just never liked the cot.

From about 4.5months, she woke at night all the time and didn't sleep well through the day. Tried CC'ing, that was awful. Looking back now, I was sorry I put my DD through that crying. I was seriously sleep deprived and needed a solution!

I decided to just take DD to bed twice a day during her day sleeps or let her sleep on me in front of the tv. Worked well! Feared what it may do to her in the future and if she would ALWAYS depend on me but had no other solution and I wanted us both to be happy!

Then, just before she was 10 months old, we bought a toddler bed (as sleeping in bed with us was becoming difficult) and sold the cot on ebay (what a waste of money that was, never used and sold for diddly squat)!! Put her in the bed for day sleeps and night and she loved it!

She is still sleeping in it. Loves it, no problems at all. The transition has been excellent. So that's our success story, we thought she'd be sleeping with us until she was 6 years old or something!

I do remember our DD went through a similar stage at 8 months where she woke all the time, I put it down to developmental.

I hope it gets better for you soon. Sorry to ramble on, HTH because my DD never went in her cot.

My babies got a warm bath before going to sleep at night with mild massages. So in that way she'll get used to it. Anyway she'll feel more comfortable. With some music.

hmmmm sounds like it is a stage around 7 months. my bub was a excelent sleeper was self settling but the last 2 weeks she has been fighting her sleeps soooooooooooo bad.

Hi Luey

Our little ones sound very similar. I went through months of trying everything, looking for patterns and trying to figure out just how to get DS to sleep. In the end I think some of it comes down to personality, developmental times and then there's teething, separation anxiety - the list goes on.

About a month ago I was at wit's end - DS was waking every hour at night and napping for only 20 minutes in the day. I ended up having a consult with a sleep school. I was very firm about my parenting philosophy and not letting bub cry to sleep etc. They were very supportive and we came up with a plan that my DH and I were comfortable with. DS now settles himself to sleep most times (albeit with me going into his room to reassure him sometimes) and I believe that the talking/grizzling is ok - don't think you're not being a gentle parent for allowing him to get to sleep this way. This is miles away from letting bub CIO.

I know this probably isn't all that helpful but thought I'd share my experience with sleep school and I think when we're so sleep deprived then we have to consider options for changing our bub's sleep patterns, even though we'd all prefer to ride it out.

Hugs to you - hope you get a decent night's sleep tonight.