sleep is deterioating - need help!

My DD is 8 and a half months and has decided that sleep is not for her, and I am getting to the end of my wits with it - I am exhausted and don't know what to do.
Sleep has always been difficult but before xmas, we tried the No Cry Sleep Solution and all of a sudden she was going to sleep with no tears and back to only waking up once a night, and sleeping in till half 6 at the earliest. However, since the hot weather hit, even though its cold off again, sleep is getting worse and worse - not the going to sleep - that is fine, but she is waking at least 2 times a night, and since the weekend, she has been waking about 3-4 times a night, we finally give up about half 5 when she comes inwith us (which isn't ideal as we have a very small double bed). Some nights, she will go to sleep with no issues but wake up 5-15 mins later and need resettling. And she desn't just wake up grizzling, its a proper cry. Other times, she will got to sleep and then as soon as she hits the cot is awake again. I've tried to break the feeding to sleep habit, and she now doesn't need it to go to sleep initially, however on her night wakings, the only ting to settle her is a quick feed. I've tried putting her in her cot sleepy but awake and letting her go to sleep on her own, but she still wakes up 2 hours later. I was thinknig that it was teething but now i'm not sure - we gave her nurofen the other night and she was still waking up 3 hourly it could be a wonder week (fingers crossed, because then it will improve) but I am really not sure - she has started to cruise round the furniture so it could be related to walking. And now her day naps are gonig down hil - I'm trying to catch the end of her sleep cycle to help her stay asleep, but they seem to have shortened so I missed it the last 2 days.
Anyone have any ideas please! I am almost at breaking point with lack of sleep. DH is helping as much as possible but he is so snowed under at work that I don't like him getting up too much at night.
TIA, Sam

Oh hun

I have been there done that. AT this age most bubs sleep does deteriorate. Try and hang in there. WE ended up at Torrens House in Adelaide for sleep issues and was so worth it. They don't do CC but do do hands on settling. So bubs does cry but you are there and if very distressed can pick them up. I weaned my son as supply was a huge issue for us. There was just nothing there and going to TH has made a huge difference. He still wakes at night but will settle without a feed, jsut some sips of water and the dummy.

Suggestions:
*Hang in there it might be a wonder week.
*It may be the walking side of it as their brains are in overdrive. Try wrapping her again. That is what we do, suggested by parent help line and I was surprised at the results. We use a cot sheet.
*WE follow a strict routine and he now has 2 2 hour sleeps a day usually. I used to follow his cues but found I would put him down too early and wouldn't sleep as long as he would need. We do allow some flexibility but try to keep to it within reason.
I can post the routine if you would like.
*Rest when bubs rests.
*Can you get a friend family member to help out with food for a night or two?
*Make sure you get help and take care of yourself. Sleep deprivation is hard on relationships even though you try not to let it affect it.
* contact your CYH nurse for suggestions and if a sleep centre if you feel it is just not improving. It sounds like it has been going on for a while and I just kept hoping it would improve. It didn't for us but that is not to say it won't for you

Take care of yourself and feel free to PM me. Sleep deprivation is terrible

Thanks Luey - great to hear that I'm not the only one! If you could post your routine, that would be great. The last couple of afternoons I've lied down with her. In the afternoon the only way to get her to sleep now is a feed. None of the normal stuff works, so we just lie down together.

Did your DS fight the wrapping? DD weaned herself off the wrap at 5 months old - she would fight it every night until we gave up.

What sort of settling strategies did Torrens House give you? How do you get into Torrens House (we're in Adelaide too). Is the CYH parenting helpline worth a call?
I was thinking today that I might put her in her cot, and pat her, only getting her up if she gets distressed. I really don't agree with CC but I am almost to the point where I am willing to give anything a go. We were hoping to try for number 2 in June, but I really don't think I can if DD sleep hasn't improved!

I can so relate to where you are right now.
Torrens house was fab, I got a break and was very supported. They use wrapping, very tightly, and you stay with them patting the cot etc and SHH until they settle. You don't leave them to cry and you can pick them up if they get very distressed. They tell you at the beginning that you don't have to do anything you aren't comfortable with. I went with an open mind and met all my goals. I was at the point where I really didn't care anymore which was an indication into my mental state. They work with you to make goals in your time there. Iwish I had gone sooner but I didn't know enough about TH and thought it was CC. IT wasn't unti l Iwas about to do CC I called the parent help line to make sure the info I had in one of their old books was correct they said they don't reccomend that anymore. It is hands on settling. I bought the 'no cry sleep solution' book but never got it to work as I could not break the sucking to sleep habit as DS has a dummy.
Contact your local CYH nurse and mention your problems how it is ongoing and what you have tried. They may want to do a home visit first. The parent help line can't get you into TH but can offer suggestions in the meantime.

We stopped wrapping DS at 4 months as he would scream no matter what but started again about 8 months as would not lie still and was all over the cot. WE were even starting to leave him to cry as nothing else would work. We tried feeding to sleep for a while but then that stopped working. My DH was doubtful about the wrapping but the first time he was asleep within 10mins. Now he often self settles. Sometimes he does need some assistance to go to sleep but is so much better than before. Like I said he still doesn't sleep through but I have the skills to manage it and when he does wake I am usually back in bed within 10mins max. Last night he was awake a bit between 2-4 but I think it was teeth. IT's not perfect but so much better than it was.

The routine they follow strictly:
6.00-7.00am - awake and breast/bottle feed
7.30-8.00am - breakfast
9.30-11.30am - sleep
11.30-12 - lunch
1.00-1.30 - breast/ bottle feed
2.30-4.30pm - sleep
5.00-5.30pm - tea
6.30pm - breast/bottle feed
7.30pm - bedtime
10.00- 11.00pm - rollover feed, breast/bottle feed

I usually give my DS breakfast first as he won't eat as much after a bottle. I sometimes let him sleep until 7.30 (and consequently I get a sleep in). I often give DS lunch at 12. I do vary it a bit but to start with follow it strictly, within 15mins or so.

Go to the CYH website and look up torrens house there is info there. They also have info on the wonder weeks too.
google wrapping techniques. I have tried to describe how I was shown at TH.

To wrap use a cot sheet. Lie bub one third along with the top level with her eyes. Put her arm down by herside and bring the short side accross and tuck under her body and around her legs. Brign the other long side accross and approx 10cm from the top fold it down so it sits flat. Wrap the remains of the sheet round and round the body tightly.

It can take a while to get into Torrens house so get your name down ASAP. You can only go to TH until bub is 12months old so time is of the essence. Things may improve by doing these things or stuff suggested by your CYH but don't expect it to jsut get better.

Also do you think it could be a supply issue? A lot of what our problems were started because of supply issues I think. Plus he had colic and reflux so never learnt to sleep properly.

Good luck, Feel free to PM me.

Thanks Luey - that wasa great reply. I have an appoitment on Fri at the CYH clinic, so will see what the nurse says - I'll ask about TH.

From what I've been reading, I mashed together a few different ideas and theories, and have come up with a routine pretty similar to the one your using, apart from the roll-over feed. I've also decided to do a pre-bed routine to see if that helps, and then putting her in her cot awake and patting. The parents helpline suggested wrapping but she just screamed when I tried it for a nap. I'll see if I can get her to settle in her sleeping bag, if not I may have to persevere with the wrapping. We haven't actually started the new routine stuff yet as Sunday she came down with a cold.

I'm getting close to the CC stage - which I never ever wanted to do, so am prob in a similar head space to what you were. DH trys to help but because I do most of the nightwakings plus he leaves for work at half 7 - when she's just woke up and feed so really happy and then he doesn't get home till its pretty much her bedtime, so he doesn't really understand what the daytimes are like. His attitude has always been it will be alright, doesn''t matter if she doesn't sleep, but its now at the point where it does matter because it leaves her grumpy and out of sorts if that morning nap is not good. And I really think her lack of day sleeps is affecting her night sleep.

Anyway, once she is over her cold, I'm going to give the new routine a go, and see what happens Friday.

Thanks again, Sam

Ahhhhhhhhhh It always happens that way. Jsut as you want to try something new they getsick. My DS was sick about 5 days after returning home from TH with a fever. I tried to keep to the routine as much as possible but still let him sleep a bit more too.

Good luck.

Ithink you need to talk to your CYH nurse about how you are feeling too. It might get you on the wait list/ more strategies in place ;). Sleep deprivation and a grumpy baby is crap, it takes its toll especially when your DH works long hours. Mine does too in a demanding job. Day sleeps do affect night sleeps and vice versa.

I have been there and although it is a long way from perfect we have improved a lot. Tonight he woke after 2ish hours, resettled with dummy. Woke 30mins later, rewrapped, water, and pat. Out in about 10mins? He has stirred but I think self settled. BEfore it would have been at elast 30mins without a feed, more likely an hour. My DS may not sleep through until he is older but if I can keep the wakings to a minimum and he sleeps during the day it helps.

Can someone give you a break in the meantime? It is hard when they are sick though. MAke sure you rest up.

I can deal with one or two night wakings, if I'm back in bed within 10 mins - which is what they used to be - last night for example it took 45mins to re-settle her and that was with a feed! DH had already been in earlier in the night and resettled her within 15mins but he doesn't do it all the time. I was on the phone to the helpline again tonight as I tried the patting in the cot they suggested last time, and just ended up with a very distressed daughter. The nurse suggested to get her mealtimes sorted so she is eating more - so a solid meal first and then a breast feed straight after. I think because she started waking up more at night she's less hungry the next day, and so feeds more at night and so on! I'll give that a go tomorrow, and then just wait till Friday. I am hoping that I will at least get an appointment quickly at the day service.

Thanks for the advice! and listening - no one else seems to understand! Only 1 of the mums in my mother group has had similar probs and they went the CC route, which worked for them, but I'm not sure I'm ok with it, although if things don't improve within the next month or so, I might be at that point.

Anyway, thanks again

Not a problem, I know it helps to have someone who has been there done that and who has similiar beliefs to you. I live in the country and the number of people who suggested I just let him cry. NEver wanted to do that and I just don't think it would work. We tried CC a few times but had less sleep of would take 45 mins for him to get to sleep. But it all depends on what you beleive in and how involved you want to be in the settling. There are some who love the 'sleep doctor' in adelaide who advocates put them in their cot and leave them till the morning. We tried leaving DS for 15mins one night and had to go in as he was bashing his head on the cot and just getting more and more distressed. A friend who did this felt bad one night as her DD woke and was very distressed they left her for a while then eventually went in to find her lying with her neck at an odd angle against the edge of the cot. She now leaves the door open and checks on her.

Do you pat your DD or the cot? My DS hates being touched but patting the cot helps and initially I found patting faster and louder helped. Really loud, banging on the cot got him to stop crying and eventually settle. Obviously you slow it as they settle.

Good luck tomorrow.