Formula- Im at my wits end

Ok so im not sure whether anyone can help me, prob not but im at my wits end and i cant take it anymore so here goes.

DS was put on formula early, we had serious attacment issues and my emotional issues caused us to put him on formula early on and I believe that this was the right decision for us.

At first DS was great on formula, no issues, only reason he wore a bib was because of milk dribble. He started in s26 and we changed him to Karicare infant early on because he seemed to have a bit of trouble pooing but in hindsight it was probably due to his little guts getting used to it.

Anyway at about 2 months old DS started throwing up. Not huge amounts but as I couldn't stand the smell of Karicare we put him on NAN Pro. This was a disaster as he would throw up huge amounts of the formula, it didn't bother him too much but scared me due to the volume. Nan was alot more watery than Karicare so I thought this might be the reason so I changed to Karicare gold. DH is convinced that the fish oil etc will be beneficial for him so as he has had no constipation issues I thought it would be a good idea. Anyway, on Nan DS would take 180ml and as I said he would throw up but prob not more than maybe 20ml if that (this may be a huge over exaturation (sp?) On karicare he is lucky to take 150ml and he still throws up, not huge amounts at once but between feed he throws up maybe 5 times. One day I changed him 3 times before going out and he ended up with a bib on to catch the spew coz I had no outfits left. DH tried the Karicare and he said it was the worst tasting thing ever, is it possible that he doesn't like it? And his skin is so bad at the moment could that be why?

I hope this makes sense, I am so over this all and its getting me quite upset at the moment. Not sure what I am asking but of anyone has any advice on what im experiencing please let me know.

Oh i feel you pain. Check out my threads on here about Mia spewing. She drinks about 150ish mls and spews up to 100 back up. Shes now on s26 GOLD as the way i seen it, if shes going to keep some down i want it to be the good stuff IYKWIM. NAN made Mia break out in a bad rash all over her face too.. and so did Karicare, im not sure why. Mia doesnt have a problem with pooing on the s26.. she poos minmum of twice a day.

Have you had him checked for reflux?

Hi,

It can be very worrying and concerning, can't it? It sounds like you are having a tough time. 150 mls is A LOT of milk for a small stomach. Go to the fridge and pour yourself a 200ml glass of milk and drink it down in one go. How do you feel? a little "full" to say the least. Think about their little tummies - most babies can't comfortably take that amount of milk comfortably. Studies have show that breastfed babies take around 80-100 mls per feed - and feed 8-12 times in 24 hours - there's a reason for that. When they are in control, babies take as their tummy can cope with. Pysiologically, your baby is not different than if he had been breastfed. Many mothers find that smaller, more frequent feeds work better for babies like this.
You mentioned his skin? does he have a rash or eczema? Are their food intolerances or allergies in either side of the family?

Hugs hon- all the spewing is so hard to deal with!

It sounds like you really need to work out what the cause of his throwing up is. He could have reflux, he might not agree with the formula, or he could just be a chucky baby. Before you change formula again, I would try to eliminate the other two. As you probably know, changing formula is hard on their bodies, so leave that until last. I would do two things. First, having the dr check him out for reflux- if its bad, they can give him medicine for it. Second, I would try a little formula thickener. Karicare makes one and it just makes the formula less watery and can help babies who are just naturally chucky keep it down a bit better.

If you don't have success with either of these (and your dr/mchn has no other suggestions), then it might be time to look at a different formula. Maybe a HA one?? I don't know what would be the best formula- best to take advice from dr/mchn on that one.

Good luck and I sympathise with all the laundry you are inevitably doing!

He might be lactose intolerant. Get him checked out by a GP. Also any formula change should be done very gradually over a week or more. Sudden changes in formula brands in some babies can be the cause of vomiting and stomach upsets.

Yeh i see what barb is getting at. It is VERY easy to over fed a FF bub. Dont listen to the tin, listen to ur bub. I know knows Mia's signs when she has had enough, and she never been a big drinker.

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He might be lactose intolerant. Get him checked out by a GP. Also any formula change should be done very gradually over a week or more. Sudden changes in formula brands in some babies can be the cause of vomiting and stomach upsets.

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i thought LI bubs it comes out both ends quite drastically?? well that was my understanding.. i might be wrong..

Barb: The skin is baby pimples so nothing too serious. He has had it before when he was younger and on and off since but it has been especially worse since the formula change. Over the last few days he has prob been taking maybe 100mls at a feed so he doesn't usually get close to the 150mls, i dont force the formula down, I just let him have what he wants and he doesn't want to eat more than 4 hourly so thats what im doing. The morning feeds are usually his smallest and then at his last feed he usually takes the full 150mls before bed. DH and I dont have any intolerances or allergies.

I spoke to my GP about reflux however DS is not in pain when he spews, he said that if he had reflux i would know about it. DS was never a chucky baby early on he just has become more so with age.

DS weight gains have been great in the past, he was 7.05 kg at 3 months, his birth weight was 3.6kg. They have slowed down lately but I think that is normal as he reaches 3 months.

DS has been more fussy at the bottle lately, I thought this was due to him becoming more interested in other things but now im not sure. I am so sad about it at the moment, I dont know what to do but i think the first step is a visit to the gp. also maybe he isn't throwing up as much as I think??? Grrr im so confused, its been a really hard day with the feeding, the chucking and him being upset.

DS poos have always been a little watery, not the plastecine consistency that they say they should have. could this be a problem too?

we had similar problems with our DS, and I found the only thing that worked for us was a plain and simple formula, alot of the newer formulas have so much in them now and sometimes I think the babys are just a little sensative to them, with DS my mum asked me to try Lactogen and I did and it worked brilitantly its just a plain basic formula thats been around for years its quite heavy so fills them a little quicker and quite possibly because its heavier it stays down easier, not sure if that is the case but it makes sense,

I also think perhaps smaller feeds more frequently will help, he may just be having to much and his tummy cant handle it, it sounds like his weight gain is good so I wouldnt think he is bringing up to much.

good luck I hope it all works out for you, it can deffinately be a stressfull time thats for sure

Gosh my DD must be a greedy guts. She was drinking 210mls at 3 and a half months.

I know what you mean about the Karicare being revolting - taste and smell-wise I couldn't stand it. My DD is on Nan and we've had no problems with it. She's chucks quite a bit but not enough that I am alarmed about it. She always was chucky though. The Nan tastes and smells much better than Karicare and S-26, I think.

A couple of simple things I would try if you aren't already...move him up to a faster flow teat; burp him half way through the feed; keep him upright for a while after the feed; don't try and feed him any more of the bottle if he seems to have had enough (I know you probably aren't doing this but it is worth mentioning. I always follow DD's lead and if she only wants half a bottle sometimes, that's fine). I also would try a plain, non-gold formula such as Heinz (my MCHN likes Heinz and Nan).

Is your DS a snuffly type of baby? DD is and we notice she chucks up a lot more when she has nasal congestion. We have to wash her nose out with saline when that happens and then she can feed and suck on her dummy better, poor little thing. The GP says as her face grows she should grow out of this...she does have quite a small nose. This is not formula-related though, she's been prone to enormous boogers since she was born.

I changed to Mam Ultivent bottles after I researched the BPA issue and DD had a lot less wind after the change of bottle. It had all these claims on the box but I didn't pay any attention to it, I was only interested in the BPA-free angle. But perhaps there was something in it...?

I think the poos sound fine, btw.

Hopefully there is something in there that helps!

ETA: Just remembered DD's chucking also calmed down (as well as general wind) when I moved her up to a medium flow teat...same time as the new bottles, so maybe it was just the teat. I have to admit I'm a bit of a fan of just trying a faster flow teat, I've seen it work quite a few times, especially with bigger babies. And my DD is a big baby like yours, 7.5kgs at 4 months and very tall along with it.

You can try a few things.

1. Slow down his feeds. Give quarter of a bottle at a time. Burb him in between and sit him upright.

2. Drop down a teat size

3. Keep bub upright for a good 20 mins post feeding.

If bub is happy then you may just have a Happy Chucker!! My friend had a bub who chucked up huge amounts and to be honest it was bloody awful. Poor bub just had to be upright constantly. Both my girls were chuckers and they did not improve until they were 3 to 6 months old.

Don't be overly concerned with the chucking up if bub is happy and not in pain. Just keep getting him weighed to check his progress.

Finally ....hugs

Curly: We moved ds up to the medium flow a few days ago so see how he goes over the next few days see if anything changes. At the moment we are taking it slow and watching him alot when feeding to make sure that he doesn't choke due to the faster flow but he seems to be ok with them .

Funny you mentioned the snuffliness as ds is a bit snuffy. Ill clear his nose tomorro and see how we go.

I def think I will go back to a plain formula, maybe go back to nan or try heinz if it doesn't clear up after he finishes his next can of karicare. If i have to smell his spew i would like it to at least smell a bit nicer than karicare lol. I think formula's prey on the insecurities of formula feeding mums, esp with karicares new pre-biotics in the gold which apparently support the babies immune system. I think thats what sucked us into the gold as everyone told me not to use gold formula.

What is the best way to introduce a new formula if we need to? Someone mentioned that we should not just change the tin, should we introduce a bottle a day till we change over completely?

I don't know about gradually changing over - when I changed DD's formula I just opened the new tin of Nan and away I went...oops. Maybe someone else can help there.

Just wanted to post that the Nan is a gold formula and I have never seen it in a non-gold version. One of my friends is a GP and she likes Nan HA but that is also gold (my DD is on the regular Nan Pro Gold). So if you are wanting a non-gold formula Nan won't be the one for you.

Good luck! I hope that something works for you. If it is the nose thing, I sympathise. Poor DD hates having the saline squirted up her nose and we are spending a fortune on saline at the moment (the Otrivin baby nasal saline ampoules or Fess) because she has a cold which makes it even worse. But I checked with the GP who said it was fine, it's really the only thing that we can do until she grows out of it...

Ok so I took DS to the gp today after a terrible morning feed. He thinks that he has reflux and has put him on losec for a week to see if it makes a difference.

I am relieved that we have an answer although I know that it may not be reflux at least we have a starting point. I am so upset wih myself for not taking him to the doctor earlier, for the longest time I thought he was just a grumpy bub and now it seems he has been in pain for a long time. :(

just remember... Losec doesnt help vomiting. Mia was on it for 2.5 months and i took her off it coz she couldnt keep it down anyway. I have put her on a homopathic medicine as she doesnt necesarily need to swallow it, it can be rubbed into her skin if need be.

Ill try anything at this stage to make him happier. TBH im not conviced that it is reflux. Grrr im doing my head in.

dont put yourself down. babies are hard to tell if they are upset, grumpy or in pain.

you ahev doen teh right thing.

we had issues with DD se didnt like nan or s26 but the heinze gold stayed down and she thrived on it. we also found the faster teets were better for her as she was sucking to hard on the slow teet and was causing gas build up so she would throw up after feeding.

hope the losec helps :D