Breech baby TURN!

Well I'm 35 weeks and I'm waiting for my baby to turn! Anyone else in the same situation?

My first baby was breech and she was a c-section. I am hoping this little girl will be different and turn before her time is up. Any suggestions?

Cheers
Cathy

I have LOTS but this is a no links site. Off the top of my head:

*homeopathic pulsatilla is excellent for realigning poorly positioned babies
*hand stands in a swimming pool
*your normal optimal foetal positioning which your CP should have told you about a long time ago and you should be pursuing as a lifestyle by 30 or so weeks
*ECV as a last resort
*a chiropractic treatment in case it's your pelvic shape that causes you to grow breech babies
*acupuncture
*board tilting
You MUST go to the spinning babies website which has HEAPS. There are also excellent websites devoted to breech babies which google will show you.

Breech is just another position and breech babies, like other babies, are easily born vaginally. I know many women who've birthed their breech babies easily at home. Did you know that RANZCOG recently changed it's policy on recommending c-sec for breech and now supports vaginal birth?

The UK AIMS journal has LOTS of articles on birthing breech babies optimally.

Birthing a baby by the breech at home.
Beech B. AIMS Journal, Vol 14, No 2, 2002, p4-5

Coroner's inquiry into a breech delivery.
Beech B. AIMS Journal, Vol 14, No 2 2002 p19-20

Breech Presentation - Caesarean operation versus normal birth
Lowdon G. AIMS Journal, Vol 10, No 3, 1998, p1-4

Natural, Active Breech Birth.
Lowdon G. AIMS Journal, Vol 10, No 3, 1998, p5

Keep Your Hands off the Breech.
Cronk M. AIMS Journal, Vol 10, No 3 1998, p6-8

Why are some babies breech?
Lowdon G. AIMS Journal, Vol 10, No 3, 1998, p8-9.

Turning Point for the Breech?
Thomas P. AIMS Journal, Vol 10, No 3, 1998, p12-13

Hi!

Thanks for that! I was told with my first baby that vaginal birth was out of the question as a ct scan of my pelvis showing an 11cm diameter (and I was told they like 12cm for a breech delivery in case the head is in a funny position coming out).

I will try some of those things and see how I go! If they don't work I will try ECV.

Cheers
Cathy

Cathy, have you checked out the sticky here with links and resources for breech babies?

HI there Cathy

I did have a breech bubba @ 36 weeks and absolutely freaked!!! I have to admit it really scared me that I might have to have a C/S...lol Just scared of the unknown I guess...I wasnt too fussed on ECV either as I had heard some bad stories???

So I tried everything i could to turn my lil princess and I have to say I beleive the handstands in the river did it...lol there was no way in hell I was going to a pool to do it in public so off we went to the river and then proceeded to have a handstand comp...I didnt think it did anything but lo and behold it worked \:D/ \:D/

I did a lot of research on ways to get them to turn and am sure I read that being in water helped us relax and also somehow produced more amniotic fluid which helped the babies turn...its worth giving a go anyway

Fingers crossed for you xx

There is ABSOLUTELY no way an x-ray or ultrasound of your pelvis has ANY bearing on your birthing potential. Pelvises are not fixed like fences, they swing like gates and babies mold. Even breech babies bums mold perfectly and so do their heads, they just do it in reverse. How your pelvis looks when you're lying down has nothing whatsoever to do with how it performs when you're brimful of relaxin and progesterone and in an upright open position with a baby being pressed down by a powerful uterus. Obviously breech babies can be born or we wouldn't keep producing them.

Hey guys

Thanks for the tips! I should try a handstand hey? I am happy to hear it worked for you!

Janet, I felt very much that the hospital staff were against breech deliveries, especially first babies. It does not surprise me. I think too many are worried about being sued if something goes wrong.

I have read the sticky on breech techniques. :) I just wondered if anyone had any personal tips to share!

See my dr on tue, see if she has moved yet. I don't think so though.

Cheers
Cathy

Make sure you tell your doc you know that her own union has withdrawn it's recommendation on surgery for breech. Even in their original statement it said that one reason to not perform surgery was if the mother didn't wiant surgery. It's your body and your birth and your recovery period with another child to care for. The surgery is available if you really need it but if you're allowed to birth spontaneously without interference there isn't really a reason you'd need it. Unless your Ob is going to come to your home and help you in the aftermath of a second surgery, she needs reminding that you have needs which extend beyond your time in the hospital.

Thanks Janet! I appreciate your comments! And it is MY body, so it should be my choice.

I am going to go swimming this week I think..try some headstands/sommersaults etc. See if the baby likes that!

Cheers
Cathy

I just found out today at almost 38 weeks my bubs is breech will be confirmed tomorrow and will most likely be booked in for a ceaser next week and I am totally ****ting myself

Oh Becky. Sorry to hear that. Did she turn breech just recently then?

Have your dr talked to you about ECV? (external cephalic version?)

I went to see my dr today (36 week appt) and we are going to try turning the baby at 37 weeks. (friday week) I am still hoping she will turn herself sometime before though.

Cheers
Cathy

Well I don't really know Cathy I haven't felt him turn apart from at about 34 weeks but the midwifes didn't pick up on it don't really know why

He may have been breech all along. I sensed this was the case with my daughter Yasmin. I was told all through my check ups she was "Head down". And then an ultrasound (to check on 'small for dates' belly size) showed she was breech!

Even now, every dr I see thinks this baby is head down at first, and then they double check and are wrong. I have been getting scanned by a portable ultrasound machine every appt at the hospital as they just weren't sure!

Cathy

I reckon he must of been they just didn't pick it up they just thought he was being difficult when they tried to find the h/b but they were looking in the wrong spot!

There you go!

Cathy

Well I went for a swim today...it was lovely to feel so weightless. I did some handstands and sommersaults. Several actually. (luckily there were few people in the pool). I don't think it made a difference though. :( She is still breech.

Cathy

Hi Cathy
Hows that baby of yours?
One trick I use for breech babies is to get mum to rest on elbows and knees for 20 mins each day. You can do this on the bed, floor, lounge, anywhere that is comfy.
Something else I have recently read about is to shine a bright torch on the lower part of your tummy also get a radio and put it low down on your tummy with music playing

She still has plenty of time. I was 9 days overdue and turned vertex (head down) the day before I was born ;) As you may have seen in a previous post, RCOGNZ have amended their stance on breech birth and it is actually favourable in certain circumstances, which is a small step! The thing is they ask for average sized babies (not large babies but how do they guess that) and continuous monitoring etc... try and grab a copy of Breech Birth Woman Wise by Maggie Banks and / or The Thinking Woman's Guide to A Better Birth by Henci Goer.

A relative of mine was raved about in the midwifery profession when she rocked up (in NSW) to birth her baby and had an undiagnosed breech. The room filled up with staff and students who were dying to see this breech birth and all went very well. Luckily the head midwife on at the time had said, no, this baby is coming and we're going to do our best to help. This was mum's first baby so she was none the wiser. Baby (now a toddler) is perfectly fine and healthy!

Hey Alan & Kelly

Yes I have been trying the knee/chest exercise every day on the bed. Also shining the torch down low. I even tried using the frozen peas on the baby's head. No luck. Have to try the music yet (looking for headphones). I will do anything if it helps!!

The hospital has booked me in to turn the baby this friday....I will be around 37 and a half weeks. Do you think that's too early? I guess if I go into labour at 38 weeks it's not. My last baby arrived on his due date. But I guess you never know if you will give birth early.

It's nice to hear baby's can turn last minute. Though I think I will only be given up to the 39th/40th week for her to turn (not overdue) before they schedule a c-section. I worry about the risks of giving birth to a breech baby though.

I will see if I can get a copy of those books!

Thanks for the info guys!

Cheers
Cathy

It depends on the skill of the person doing it, some babies will just turn back again but some will stay vertex. Read into it, research and see how you go. Get hold of those books if you can though, they are ideal for your situation. Only 3-5% of babies come on their due date.

The same dr I am seeing turned my friend's baby at 37 weeks. And he stayed head down about 2 weeks, then turned back. She went into labour and ended up with c-section.

I'd be happy to try giving birth to a breech baby, though I've been told my babies have slightly larger heads than the average (though normal). So that kind of concerns me as that bit comes out last. I worry about compression of the cord etc too.

Cathy

I wouldn't let that bother you though, their skulls are not fixed but mould their way through. :) Do you know what position baby is in? If baby is frank breech this is the position they are most like to be happy with in terms of what they feel is safe. I know of mums that have had footling breech babies safely, one at home when labour happened way too fast! I think once you are empowered with information you will feel more comforable, having information and the right information in your mind makes SUCH a difference. Let me know if you can't find those books and I will see if I can help you.

Also this might help get an idea of the process:

:

---

As in labour with a baby in a normal head-down position, uterine contractions typically occur at regular intervals and gradually cause the cervix to become thinner and to open. In the commoner breech presentations, the baby’s bottom (rather than feet or knees) is what is first to descend through the maternal pelvis and emerge from the vagina.

At the beginning of labour, the baby is generally in an oblique position, facing either the right or left side of the mother's back. As the baby's bottom is a less efficient dilator than the head, the buttocks may remain high until late in labor. In order for the baby to pass through the mother’s pelvis, there is flexion at the side of the waist, so that one hip becomes the leading part.

The mother's pelvic floor muscles cause the baby to turn slightly so that the hips are born, usually one at a time, with the baby facing one of the mother's inner thighs. At this time the baby's shoulders are entering the mother's pelvis, and the baby's position adjusts again so that they are obliquely facing the mother's back.

The shoulders emerge as the baby’s head is entering the pelvis. The combination of maternal muscle tone and uterine contractions cause the baby’s head to flex, chin to chest. The baby's position changes again so that they are facing the mother's sacrum. Then the face emerges, and finally the back of the baby's head.

Due to the increased pressure during labour and birth, it is normal for the baby's leading hip to be bruised and genitalia to be swollen; this usually resolves shortly after birth.

Babies who assumed the frank breech position in utero may continue to hold their legs in this position for some days after birth - this is normal.

---

Thanks for that! I think they have told me a couple of times she is in the frank breech position, but I am sure I feel little feet wedged down in my pelvis (below the hair line) most of the time.

I'll see how I go with the books.

Cheers
Cathy

Just thought I would add, as far as I know, Breech Birth Woman Wise by Maggie Banks is only available from the acegraphics website... so just google the book and name and it should be the top link.

Ok thanks Kelly! :)

Cathy

Just want to say good luck, Cathy - don't let them scare you into having an op that actually scares you too!
I have read here and in other sources that visualisations (when using relaxation techniques) have been known to turn a baby. Even if you don't manage to turn the baby the other girls here are right, there is plenty of evidence to support successful vaginal breech births.
It's YOUR pregnancy and baby, not theirs - sometimes doctors need to be reminded that the hospitals and multiple medical degree'd people don't have a patent for this childbirth caper!
Many good vibes to you :)

Thanks IK! I will let you all know how it goes! :)

Cathy

Well I had the ECV today. It was unsuccessful. They turned her half way, but because she's frank breech, it is the hardest to turn. Later I felt her head up where it was before.

Midwife suggested I get some moxa sticks. Told me of a website I can get them. But they take 14 days to deliver. I don't have 14 days!! :(

I'm just so disappointed. I really believe she just doesn't want to turn.

Cathy

You could look up your local alternative therapists and ask them if they use the moxa sticks - my myotherapist uses them on me for an injured shoulder, so maybe an acupuncturist could do this for you? It'll take less than 14 days to find someone you could pay to do it (if you have health cover, it may cover this?)!

Yeah that is a thought. I was wondering what to do.

The midwife even suggested hyponosis. Dunno about that one though.

Cathy

Hypnosis is great! Not everyone is able to be hypnotised, but hypnotherapy at least gets you to go into yourself.
I've done it before and it doesn't feel like you're under someone else's control - it shouldn't feel that way. A good hypnotherapist will tell you this, and will put you into a relaxed state, but not sleepy - you don't want to fall asleep when you're paying for the time!
It's worth a shot, Cathy :)

Have you checked out the spinningbabies website? Well worth a read.

Yes I have checked out that site and so many others. I do feel though that this baby just really wants to stay head up. I think maybe my placenta being low is a factor as I had the same thing with my daughter.

She turned from trasnsverse back to breech almost immediately after the ECV. She's one determined little bub.

Cathy

Hi Cathy, another Cathy here! I was wondering what ended up happening in your story?

I am currently 35 weeks with a breech. Have been to acupuncture and have been using the moxybustion stick, but no luck yet. Am due for ECV this Wednesday 19th April.

Would love any info/advice you can share, esp as to how you found the ECV. I know it was unsuccessful, but wondering how painful etc it was?

Cathy

Hey Cathy

I had a baby girl last week! (April 7 8.54am at Logan Hospital)

I also tried moxibustion and ECV. Both were unsucessful. ECV is VERY uncomfortable (you will feel some pain briefly), but it does work for some people. Worth a try if you really want to avoid a caesarean. Anything is worth trying to avoid an operation hey?

In my case I tried just about everything. Exercises, ECV, etc..and my hospital would not allow a breech birth, so I had an elective caesarean. As it turns out my baby girl was a big girl (4kg) and long as well..57cm!), so maybe she just grew too big to turn around. Probably hogwash, but I am happy she was born healthy. At the end of the day that is what counts.

Good luck! Let me know how it goes!!

Cheers
Cathy

Thanks so much for your quick reply Cathy!

I'm so glad to hear you ended up with a big and beautiful baby girl. Are you recovering from your c/s alright?

Thanks for all the info. Yeah I'm quite keen on a natural birth, did have dreams of having a water birth even, so it's a bit dissapointing if I don't get to try that.

Not looking forward to ECV next week, it doesn't sound pleasant. I read on another forum a girl got an epidural to cope with hers so that got me really worried!

I think I mentioned it earlier but I was born 9 days post dates, was breech until the day before I was born. I was also over 8lbs but not sure exactly.

If anyone has a breech bubs I really recommend reading some great books like 'The Thinking Woman's Guide to A Better Birth' by Henci Goer which gives you lots of tips and also information about breeches and also 'Breech Birth: Woman Wise' by Maggie Banks. You wont get better on the internet...

To the 2 Cathy's - I too have a breach bubba. All pregnancy it has been transverse then at 24ish weeks it has been head down ever since. I had to have a scan the other day due to the bad bleeding and clotting I had at the start of my pregnancy, and that indicated bubs has gone breach. Little begga did this overnight, as the gyno appt was the day before and gyno said he/she was head down. So I am 34 weeks, and guess I still have a bit of time, should I be trying some of these remedies now, or just wait till my next appt when I will be 35 weeks 3 days? I am dead against having a breach baby and the hospital won't allow you to go breach with your first baby. I am not real keen on the turning that they can do, I worry about that god dam cord. My SIL just recently had a breach baby and they only found it in the last 5 days, so it was too late for her to try anything, whereas I guess I have time on my side. As it turns out the cord was wrapped around his head twice, so it was a true blessing. I am not keen to have a ceasar only I would love to be given the opportunity of a vaginal birth first, but am happy to use caesar as a second option as at the end of the day I want a healthy safe bubba. Any comments ladies???

Thankyou for your reply Kelly O:) I do have the Maggie Banks book (lent to me by my midwives).

Sheree definitely start the practices now - my primary midwife encouraged me to do the "poses" from 30 weeks, and when I went for acupuncture the practioner said she had to see me before 35 weeks.

A lot of people say it's too early to bother starting to try to turn baby before 36 weeks, but my midwife said as it's my first baby, and my tummy muscles are quite tight, that by 36 weeks it's going to get difficult. And really, at 34 weeks, only 5% of babies are breech, so it's not like its common.

I guess the good thing on your side is that your baby was head down, so hopefully he/she will remember how much better that felt if you start doing the head down bum up pose.

Let us know how you go!