Should they be teaching racism at school??

DS goes to an independant muslim school.

Last night he asked me what discrimination was and i explained it to him.

He then said is it like that the muslims not liking the jews and the jews not liking the muslims?

I thought :wtf: where did he learn that from? I asked him and he said from school in religious education study.

I explained to him that there was no such thing and he said that is what the teacher told the class, so it must be right.

Since when did schools start teaching racism? It is so not on. Here are teachers brainwashing kids into believing such nonsense. He would grow up thinking that he needs to "hate" jews and that the jews hate muslims.

I'll be lodging a formal complaint in writing tomorrow about this. How much they take my complaint into consideration is another issue :wall:

What points should i include in my complaint. Any ideas are welcomed.

TIA.

I asked dp about it and he said that muslims apparently hate the jews because they claimed the same 'holy land' and that they claim that jews are the root of all evil. Dp is one of those people that seem to know heaps of random history it's disturbing lol you can pretty much ask him about any war and he'll tell you where it happend, specific dates and why. ANyway I digress.. I don't think it's right they are teaching that sort of stuff to kids

Kids aren't born to be racist, they learn to be. Very shocked that a teacher who is suppose to be teaching equality is actually teaching the opposite.

I am glad you are taking a stand on this.

Racism of any sort is just not on.

I was shocked when DS said what he said. I didn't even know that the Jews hated the muslims and vice versa until only a few years ago and for him to know this at the age of 7 :rolleyes:

It's amazing that they "hate" or dislike each other when our religions are so similar. i digress too.

It is just not on as to what has been taught.

If it's an Islamic school you can point out that not only are the beaking the laws of Australia but also the laws of Islam. The Quran is quite specific about the respect accorded to people of the book.
Instead of teaching this crap they should be teaching their students about the history of co-dependence and mutual trust and empathy between Muslims and Jews in places like Bosnia, Spain, Portugal and Gibraltar. There was a time that European Jews sought refuge from persecution in Europe by moving to Muslim lands and were welcomed for thier learning.

You might also want to remind them that Anti-Semitism is the flip side of the same coin as Islamaphobia. It all comes from the same place.

Love you Bron.

What you've pointed out is fantastic.

Can't wait to whip their a*ses tomorrow

it is funny that they hate each other when they are so similar.

Good on you for sticking up for yourself and the children of that school darl. Kids don't need to be taught about such hatred kwim.

:cheer: you go girl!!

Maybe clarify what was actually taught before unleashing on the school......

Perhaps they were describing what discrimination was; the radical view was given as an example. Perhaps it was lost in the teaching and explanation to the kids.

i went to a small country school and the racsim was bad as me and about 10 others were the only white ausies we coped alott of flack same with the aborignal students and when we asked the teachers why we were singled out so much the reply was u arnt ittalian

when did that matter its australia isnt it

with the jew thing i dunno why ppl hate them so much it seems to be a global thing same with iraq ppl listen to the media and blow it out of proportion

teachers should be teaching history not changing it to suit there views

It may not be the school policy, but one teacher's views. I had some way out there teacher's who weren't adhering to the stated principle's of the school/religion. Good idea to clarify what was said, and in what context, first.

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Maybe clarify what was actually taught before unleashing on the school......

Perhaps they were describing what discrimination was; the radical view was given as an example. Perhaps it was lost in the teaching and explanation to the kids.

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I would hope that it was something like this... but still if they are broaching the subject at all, then they need to be very clear about the message they are putting across. I know my own get the wrong idea about things all the time, but teachers should be aware of this & be a bit careful ...
Will be interesting to see what the school has to say today.

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Maybe clarify what was actually taught before unleashing on the school......

Perhaps they were describing what discrimination was; the radical view was given as an example. Perhaps it was lost in the teaching and explanation to the kids.

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Even so, don't you think there would be a more suitable explanation of discrimination? Rather than saying that the Jews hated the muslims and vice versa?

For example - the blonde headed people not liking the red heads or something to that effect??

Using that as an example is a little too much for a 7 year old to comprehend. Good luck with the school TD. Have you drafted a letter yet?

Nope. But i will be this morning.

I would be calling and using a nice voice ;) to ask in exactly what context this was talked about because like you said, he's only 7 and that's a pretty huge concept to be talking about with kids that age and I think it would have been too heavy a subject for them to fully understand anything but the very very basic concept of muslims hate jews and visa versa. Then if you find out that it was something not nice, then let her rip.

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Even so, don't you think there would be a more suitable explanation of discrimination? Rather than saying that the Jews hated the muslims and vice versa?

For example - the blonde headed people not liking the red heads or something to that effect??

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:yeahthat: and it's obviously not been discussed in an age appropriate manner because it's quite clear that the 7 year old mind has taken that away from it kwim? I just don't think it's absolutely necessary and I hope it is rectified this morning.

Ok. i called the school as i first wanted to find out the context in which it was said in before i wrote my letter.

The receptionist was just as shocked as i was when i told her what DS had told me. She said it was totally wrong in whatever context it was told in.

I said that the teacher may have said that the muslims hate the jews and this is totally not on but what my DS has taken out of it is that the muslims hate the jews and vice versa.

The receptionist will speak to the primary co-ordinator and then get back to me.

Glad to see that they are shocked so far. And I certainly hope that it is taken care of. Not only just to you but the teacher needs to sit the class down and explain himself/herself. I didnt even know they taught that sort of stuff in school, but I havent' been to a muslim school, so im unsure of the curriculum. I would imagine that they would teach alot of history from their own background/culture

I haven't seen the curricula either, but i'll be more interested now in exactly what DS is taught in RE.

They shouldn't be taught this in any school including islamic schools. I don't want my DS to be raised as a racist or a bigot.

I would have thought that a better way to explain racism to primary students would be that people are afraid of groups that are "different" to them (whether that's skin colour, religious beliefs, the kinds of food they eat etc) because they don't know enough about them to see the similarities between the two groups.

Or is that a little too hard to grasp too for primary aged kids?

I would assume at the age of seven that is alot to expect them to grasp. I didnt start doing "history" until I was like grade 6 for crying out loud. And it was more just the "basics" which war started when etc etc

Since your little fella is of the bright type, I think he may even be interested in the history of religion from a historical standpoint? Maybe later dunno - I find it really facinating myself.

xoxo

It IS really fascinating. If it's taught appropriately I guess. I am looking forward to seeing how this all pans out though.

It's good you're getting to the bottom of it. Hopefully the school can use it as an opportunity to talk about discrimination and racism and educate about equality. One very powerful tool that can be used in schools is "Blue Eyes, Brown Eyes". I've seen a doco on it and it's truly extraordinary. Here's some links:

http://www.positiveschools.com.au/Fo...%20Elliott.pdf
A DAY WITH JANE ELLIOTT
Jane Elliott - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

totally agree kirsty. History was more like high school stuff if the muslim-jew r'ship was given as an historical example.

Lulu - i am sometimes amazed at the things he thinks about and tells me at dinner or some other quiet time. So wouldn't be suprised if he wants to learn about the history of religion. I don't push him to read anything he doesn't what.

Plus, he said that he learn this last term! It's not a recent learning. So, his brain is still working on things he learnt sometime ago. I guess he fully wants to understand stuff if he's thinking about things he learnt last term.

He never ceases to amaze me.

Good on you for standing up to this TD :hug:

It definitely sounds strange. But it is possible that there is some mix up.
A bit OT but last night in the bath my 2 yo DS was asking me if I have a penis. I said no because I am a girl and only boys and men have penises. He then said - "do you have a taco?". LOL. ummmm sorry? Turns out he had totally switched topics to food but you can imagine I was a bit taken aback!

Anyway I think you are absolutely right to follow it up and hope you can get it all sorted.

hahah LOL @ Taco. I would of been like WTF

Its a bit off topic but if you google Jane Elliot's "blue eyes brown eyes" experiment you will find out about a primary teacher in the 1960s who was appalled at Martin Luther King's assaination and decided to teach her class about the effects of racism. She has the brown eyed kids discriminate against the blue eyed ones. This is from Wikipedia

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Whether she planned the exercise previous to April 5, 1968 or not, on that day she implemented the exercise (also called an ?experiment?) for the first time. Steven Armstrong was the first child to arrive to Elliot?s classroom on that day, asking why King was murdered the day before. After the rest of the class arrived, Elliot asked them what they knew about Negros. The children responded with various racial stereotypes such as Negros were dumb or could not hold jobs. She then asked these children if they would like to find out what it was like to be a Negro child and they agreed.[2]

On that day, a Tuesday, she decided to make the blue-eyed children the superior first, giving them extra privileges like second helpings at lunch, access to the new jungle gym and five minutes extra at recess.[2] She would not allow blue-eyed and brown-eyed children to drink from the same water fountain.[4] She would offer them praise for being hard-working and intelligent. The ?brownies? on the other hand, would be disparaged. She even made the brown-eyed children wear ribbons around their neck.[2]

At first, there was resistance to the idea that brown-eyed children were not the equals of blue-eyed children. To counter this, she used a pseudo-scientific explanation for her actions by stating that the melanin responsible for making brown-eyed children? also was linked to intelligence and ability, therefore the ?brownies? pigmentation would result in lack of these qualities.[2] Shortly thereafter, this initial resistance fell away. Those who were deemed ?superior? became arrogant, bossy and otherwise unpleasant to their ?inferior? classmates. Their grades also improved, doing mathematical and reading tasks that seemed outside their ability before. The ?inferior? classmates also transformed ? into timid and subservient children, including those who had previously been dominant in the class. These children?s academic performance suffered, even with tasks that had been simple before.[4]

The following day, Elliott reversed the exercise, making the brown-eyed children superior. While the brown-eyed children did taunt the blue-eyed in ways similar to what had occurred the previous day, Elliott reports it was much less intense. At 2:30 on that Wednesday, Elliott told the blue-eyed children to take off their collars and the children cried and hugged each other. To reflect on the experience, she had the children write letters to Coretta Scott King and write compositions about the experience.[2]

This exercise changed her life, both as a teacher and personally. Her reflections on what she had witnessed would influence how she would approach race relations and teaching. ?She had not told her pupils to treat each other differently, only that they were different; and yet they developed the characteristic responses of discrimination. Jane Elliott felt that they did this because they had already absorbed discriminatory behavior from their parents and other adults.?[4] Their willingness to accept the inferiority of a group of people was no small part due to the fact that children believe what adults, including teachers, tell them and follow their example. However, the brown-eyed students who had experienced discrimination on the previous Friday, seemed to modify their behavior when it was their turn to be ?superior? on Monday. While they did exhibit some of the same discriminatory behaviors, they were much less intense supposedly because they already knew what it was like.[2] The exercise seemed to suggest that black underachievement was a product of ?white-dominated constructions of reality?. [1] She believes that what has been taught in schools (1968 to the present) conditions students that whiteness is the objective. Schools teach virtually nothing of what people of color have contributed to humankind while most people would have little trouble naming 10 white males who have done so. ?That?s called racism, people,? according to Elliott, as she believes it is racism to deny or ignore what other people contribute. Elliott believes that teachers perpetuate racism by how they interact with their students. Teachers will call on white boys first, then white girls. They also establish a hierarchy based on who they pay attention to, where students are seated and how groups are formed.[3]

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You can buy the video/DVD from ABC shops if you are interested in showing your kids....

Thats interesting, thanks Rory.
I vaguely recall hearing of this before... I might have a look for that DVD.

TD when are you likely to hear back from the school?

I've read about this Rory, so thanks. I was told about it this morning when i was discussing it with a fellow colleague at work. Very interesting indeed research indeed.

Krys - Even if DS did switch topics from discrimination and its meaning to muslim-jew r'ship without me noticing, i still find it odd that he knew what he knew and that he was taught this at school in RE.

But that is so cute Krys - tacos :lol:

Hopefully today jasp, but they are slack. I will call them again in the morning if i don't hear from them today.

Perhaps the teacher didn't bring it up. You can't control what kids are taught in their own homes - one of the kids could have said "jews hate muslims" and the teacher may have responded even with something like "in some parts of the world it is sad that there have been fights because of jews hating muslims or muslims hating jews but that is not the way it should be - we are all equal" KWIM.

Just saying it might not have MEANT to be racist - my parents were always very open with me from a very young age about what racism is (including what was happening in Rwanda at the time) and how I might come across discrimination against certain races (yes they gave specifics) and how it was not on and God was impartial. It was just as well as from Kindy there were derogatory terms etc used by certain classmates against those of certain backgrounds - racism is one of those things which is usually picked up on from parents so kids will reflect it from a VERY young age if they've been exposed. Guess it's a bit off point because that's home education which obviously you teach your kids yourself and don't want teachers doing for you - but just saying, perhaps the teacher had good intentions?

This makes me so sad.
I was always taught never to blame a race for their individual's actions and I've never disliked anyone based on race (I'm probably the only Jew in a reasonably Moslem area)
I hate the idea of perpetuating such unnecessary and futile hatred.
So glad you're challenging what ds is being taught, I think a lot of people would just shrug it off, especially since it sounds like it happened a while ago. I'll be interested to hear how it pans out x

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Perhaps the teacher didn't bring it up. You can't control what kids are taught in their own homes - one of the kids could have said "jews hate muslims" and the teacher may have responded even with something like "in some parts of the world it is sad that there have been fights because of jews hating muslims or muslims hating jews but that is not the way it should be - we are all equal" KWIM.

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I really find it hard to comprehend that kids that age would be speaking about world politics to one another in the playground.

He specifically said that his teacher said that to him and the class.

DS came home from school today and i grilled him. I asked if he was pulled up by any teacher asking him about the complaint i had made today. The school's psych had asked him if he believed what he had heard from the teacher, that the jews hate the muslims and vice versa and DS replied that no he didn't it. No he didn't because mummy explained to him that there are the good and bad in all races and religions and not to stereotype. He was also asked which teacher told the class this.

i haven't heard from the school as yet, but i will call in the morning.

My DH tells me to get over it and that i was taking it overboard :rolleyes:

Wow, your son's school has a psych on board? That is bloody awesome!

I haven't had time to read all the posts but hopefully Im not repeating anyone, sorry if I am.

As a teacher I can tell you that as a parent you have a right to have access to the curriculum your son is being taught from. As part of your complaint ask the principal to provide you with information on exactly what subjects are being taught in religious studies, how they are being taught and by whom. Not all parents know/feel comfortable doing this but schools are accountable and it is your right to know this information.

Good luck I hope it all turns out ok.

In my memory, I still recall my prep teacher telling me that the kids in Ethiopia get big tummys because they don't have enough to eat, and if they still don't get enough food then their tummy's pop and the kid dies.

I went home and told Mum, who said i must have got it mixed up, but one part of my brain still reckons it happens.

Kate - see, just what i mean. You have learnt something in prep and still remember to this day. I'm just afraid that DS will take this in and remember until he becomes an adult and doesn't want to interact with Jews.

My DS is a funny character as he also has a social problem too, not being able to make new friends etc, believes in EVERYTHING, doesn't really get it when he is picked on (he thinks the kids are tyring to be his friend).

Kirsty - yeah the school has a psych a good for nothing lady. I question what she does. My DS is in a year above his normal grade and has socialising probs. I would have thought that she'd help us on this one. I have asked her numerous times to speak to him when she does see him in the yard and to ask him if he's having any probs as DS doesn't tell us much as to what may be bothering him. Don't think she's asked ever.

Still waiting for a phone call....

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The school's psych had asked him if he believed what he had heard from the teacher, that the jews hate the muslims and vice versa and DS replied that no he didn't it. No he didn't because mummy explained to him that there are the good and bad in all races and religions and not to stereotype.

My DH tells me to get over it and that i was taking it overboard :rolleyes:

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I don't think you're taking it overboard by following it up - because if the teacher has those beliefs and was trying to impart them - then you are looking out for the welfare of his other classmates whose parents may not have imparted the values you have and could be influenced into cultivating a prejudice themselves based on what this teacher said. And if it was a case of the teacher just misguidedly and inappropriately trying to explain existing prejudices as part of say teaching tolerance of other religions etc - than at least the school will council the teacher on being more careful in what he says realizing he is talking to little kids so it doesn't happen again.