Should Working mothers be given preference at childcare ?? rant and healthy debate :)

So i have had this problem before with childcare and waiting lists etc and i have to say it is getting a little frustrating.

Having a work transfer 600km away and finding childcare for my DS has been a nightmare.
I have looked at over 15 centres which are fully booked and have placed him on 2 waiting lists - which i have been told will be available in 2013!

I have put my start date off at work another month in hope i get a phone call :(

I am wondering what is your views on the childcare system? Is it fair to working parents?

I pay full fees ($75 a day) and dont recieve any government benefits up front (we usually get a small bonus at tax time as i never know my earnings)
I have been forcced in the past to work only nightshifts and weekends (great for family life) as child care has been a nightmare to get a place.

I have been told by previous child care owners that there are people who dont work with this kids in (full time even), which i assume hardly pay what i would have to, and get full benefits from the government. But yet i struggle to get a childcare place so i can work and pay taxes to the government??

I do not and have not in the 5 years my beautiful child have been on this earth had them babysat, we have lived in 5 different parts of australia never near family , DH and i have just done it on our own, the only time i have not had my children by my side is when i have been at work (1-2 days week).

SO throwing it out there on your views on the current system?
Please keep it civil and healthy x

I thought they did? In the handbook we were given by day care it says working parents have preference. However, in practice I've no idea how that actually works.

We've been lucky in regards to day care days. We got the last Monday spot for DS's room.

Is there any family day care in the area? Though that may be the same if all the centers are full.

I know that our centre does give preference to working/studying parents and those on maternity leave who will be returning to work/study but there are also places specifically set aside for mothers who don't work but have needs that require them to have care eg. Have been assessed as having mental illness or have special needs children.

I think childcare centres should prioritise with respect to working parents especially if you have days that you are required to work. Non-working parents are usually more flexible and can slot into days where there are gaps. I don't think that they should be able to have full time childcare unless there are extenuating circumstances. Having said that it is hard to know who has these circumstances and who doesn't.

I am guessing not in practice :(
There are a few FDC but not as close as we need them.
As i work shifts DH will have to do a drop off or pick up of the kids (cc and school) and makes it hard when he starts at 8 and finishes at 530 - then has only 30 mins to get from work to both locations before close :(

Our centre gives pref to working mums too. I thought it was an across the board thing.

How would i raise it with them i guess is the next thing?
One has 20 children before DS on the list, i guess it is plausible that all 20 parents are working... but how do you ask that question

ANd i guess half the problem is once a non working mother has a place you cant take it away from them either

Definitely a tough one. I have always managed to get my DD a place when working, and once I stopped I promptly dropped her back to just 1 day a week. I'm currently working and studying and I get 2nd place priority over other parents for vacation care (DD is now at school).

I would perhaps call the centers and enquire into their policy surrounding this. From my knowledge when I briefly managed the office at one was:

1. Docs carers/circumstances
2. Working parents
3. Studying parents
4. All others

Generally you may find some of the parents who have their children in for just 1 day per week may swap to a day with more vacancies to help you, but definitely bring it up and just enquire to how they determine someone's priority and spot on the list (IMO 20 people ahead of you is a lot)

I was once told that there is a govt rebate for parents forced to utilize a nanny service to care for their children due to shift work. I don't know if there is any truth to that but it might be worth investigating. I never looked into it further as I did secure a position at my nominate child care venue.

When DD went to child care, we put her name down (literally) the day after she was born to secure a position because I didn't want to miss out. I've heard that the centre attached to my work (I work in healthcare) has a 2 year waiting list. I struggle to understand this as how can you know that you will need to use the nursery in 2 years time? I know a girl who put her daughters name down (12 months old) and didn't get an allocated spot for 18 months past that. By which time she had secured somewhere else!

I hope you can sort something soon.

The centre I had my kids at gave preference to working parents. If I was called in to work they would ask a non working parent to keep their child home for the day.

At my childcare - they do. . . Working parents/Children in need get preference over stay at home mums.

To the point it worked in my favour, when I walked in almost in tears because I needed to find a daycare fast (and the other 7 before hand didn't suit) The lady gave me the 4/4 days that I needed, and it did mean that she has to ask a few other mothers to swap their days around.

But with that being said I don't think stay at home mums shouldn't have day care - they need the break too... But I think working parents/children in need (abusive/neglect situations) should take preference.

All centres I've been to put working mothers etc first.

There is hardly any DC here at all, but I see alot of parents advertising on facebook buy & sell pages for a babysitter/carer for their kids, weather its full time, or just til a place is available. Maybe you could try that?

It can be in your home or theirs. What ever you guys feel comfortable with. There may be other mothers close by who would do it for a little extra cash, & they'd possibly be able to get your DD to & from school as well.

Mum always worked, but never used daycare etc for us.

They are trying to push for nanny's to be on the ccb but not happening as yet.
a few fdc do in home care but not in my area.
I saw both centres on friday just gone. and explained that i have pushed my start date back a month and we have no family and dont know a soul in this city, the only option is i forfiet my position or work nights and weekends until 2013. this would mean DH would have to take a week leave without pay for my to undergo inital orientation again which is our last resort.

neither centre said anything just that i have to be on the bottom of the waiting list.

Even when i initially looked at CC for DD who is almost 5 - i was told she would be on a waiting list until 2013 - go figure!!! luckily i was able to secure a kindy space at school for her.

it is ridiculous.

Cat - i agree! and being a part time working mum who has never had a day to myself in 5 years i would love to have my kids in care and rest, but unfortunately i need to work to afford the child care :(

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It can be in your home or theirs. What ever you guys feel comfortable with. There may be other mothers close by who would do it for a little extra cash, & they'd possibly be able to get your DD to & from school as well.

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I guess i have been living in this big city for all of about 5 weeks now, dont know anyone, and not comfortable bringing a stranger into my home to care for my kids.
I can hire a babysitter/nanny - cheapest is around $160 a day which is crazy!
TBH with all the drive by shootings and crime in the surrounding suburbs, i would prefer to hide behind my locked doors, but my job is part of my identity and i love it

Completely understandable, but I'm pretty sure you'd be able to ask for a police clearance & working with children check. Most of the people asking here are also new in town, but they are very small towns, so I guess having word of mouth, or recommandations makes it a bit easier. Harder to get in a city when people are more anon.

$160 is nuts... is that for live in?

Are there any BB girls close by who'd help you out?

I hadn't even been offered the job I applied for before I applied for 3 days a week at the kindy at my work. I basically told them at the interview that I could work on the days that my son could get into daycare. Because I was flexible with the days, the kindy was able to accommodate me.

Also, now that I'm going on Mat leave with #2 soon I have to keep DS in the kindy at least 1 day a week to keep his spot!! I know when I'm going back to work so I booked in #2 when I was 5 weeks pregnant but because I already had a kid at the kindy they gave me preference.

My friend who doesn't work was told that her 2yo DD could lose her spot at kindy with only a couple weeks notice if a working family needed the spot. My friend is 14 weeks pregnant with #2 and she has rheumatoid arthritis and horrible back issues so uses those days her DD is at kindy to get treatment, docs appt etc. I thought once you had a spot for your child they couldnt take it from you.

Bottom line is we need more Affordable child care places..

I think that working Mums (or Dad's) should be given preference. At our current childcare that seems to be the case (as far as I can tell). When I was starting there I needed 3 days a week and the director said that they would call some of the non-working parents to see if they could swap out of the 'full' days into one of the other days so that we could get a spot. They implied that this was their policy and that the non-working parents should know that this could happen. Someone must have swapped as we got our days.

i wonder why this isnt happening then?
What would i say i when i ring and ask,?

I'm guessing you are in Sydney???

Maybe the bet short term option is to look at council run FDC. You may need to travel a little bit (one of the joys of city life) but it will be worth it if you can work.

There is a FDC around. but if i finish work at 11pm, and DH finishes at 530pm and needs to travel home and pick up 2 children it need to be either near our house or near DD's school.
And yes sydney :(
He simply wont have time to get home, get the car, drive to chils care 20 mins in one directions then drive 30 mins int he other direction to oosh all within 1/2 hr.

I found the policy you are all talking about too, thanks for that - but tbh i would feel like a b$#%h if i said, i am a working mum make someone leave :( then would be worried about my child
http://www.deewr.gov.au/Earlychildho...eservices.aspx

http://www.mychild.gov.au/

check out this site - if you look at your area, it will give you all the cc's in the area - you can then opt to look for only those that have places available. there may be some on there you haven't checked out yet.

unfortunately, in a place like Sydney, there is a very real possibility that the bulk of the care places are being used for parents that are working or those with "at risk" children so even if you did try and refer them to that policy, they may be meeting it. there is also a probability that they prioritise full time needs over part time....

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ANd i guess half the problem is once a non working mother has a place you cant take it away from them either

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They don't actually take it away.. I have been asked in the past when not working to change my day as a working person needed that day.. I was fine to change as DD was only there to keep a place, rather than me needing a particular day.

I was on a waiting list for 12 months to get 2 childcare places 5 days a week as a full time student, and I almost didn't get them. I was initially offered 3 days a week with the extra 2 coming up only weeks before my course started. I have been told that I was prioritised over non working parents on the waiting list, but not once a place had been given (is they wouldn't phone a non working parent and say sorry, your place is cancelled). However at another childcare place in my town I know they would do that as a student is able to phone up days beforehand and basically dictate the days she wants and they arrange to help her.

i thought as much BG - its a struggle against the government isnt.
They are all crying for us to return to work (although i only ever had my 6 months maternity then back into shifts when DH was home) but they dont allow for more options for working parents especially those of us not in 9-5 jobs.
Gosh i even approached the big bosses and asked for a shift to be created for 830-230 and was told no! fighting for change but no one listens to those who want to work. :(

For now it looks like i will be working nights and weekends until a place hopefully comes up in 2013, and DH may need to take LWOP the first week to get my checks out of the way (which is stupid cause i worked for the same company anyhow blah!)

that was lucky traveller!
i was studying part time and working partime and full time mum last year and still struggled to get days, i had to give up my study until my 2 are in school :(

BG - i have checked out the site and have been to all within our time frame of travel. we choose 2 to put our names on the waiting lists that supported our philosophies of care.
xx

i'm not sure what the FDC up that way is like, but down here, you can ask for children to be collected or dropped off - is there any way that you could use FDC and pay for the travel to get them to bring your bub home rather than DH having to travel all over the place? i know mum used to travel heaps to help parents out when she was doing FDC. it's not ideal, and does add cost obviously - but maybe it's an option...

i am waiting to hear back from 2 fdc so will askt hem that too thanks BG x

Keep phoning - I know round here waiting lists are a complete unknown - and the key to get a place is just to keep phoning - I never got called back for DD at some but I know people who managed to get places after. Is silly because people end up on 6 waiting lists and the lists then just become unmanageable.

PP our local childcare centre in Melbourne ran a government scheme called in-home care. We got one of their workers to come into our home to look after DD1 one-on-one. We were able to access this because DP was a shiftworker and we didn't need full days, just half days here and there. The way it worked was that we would let the centre know on the Friday before what hours we would need for the next week. There was a four-hour minimum block and the cost was something like $22 per hour but childcare benefit plus the childcare rebate applied (unlike for nannies).

I don't think it's very widespread but given that you live in a big city, I would think that a centre in Sydney would also run that scheme.

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PP our local childcare centre in Melbourne ran a government scheme called in-home care. We got one of their workers to come into our home to look after DD1 one-on-one. We were able to access this because DP was a shiftworker and we didn't need full days, just half days here and there. The way it worked was that we would let the centre know on the Friday before what hours we would need for the next week. There was a four-hour minimum block and the cost was something like $22 per hour but childcare benefit plus the childcare rebate applied (unlike for nannies).

I don't think it's very widespread but given that you live in a big city, I would think that a centre in Sydney would also run that scheme.

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hi fionas, they had this up in coffs harbour where i used to live, here i can find one from the city - but it doesnt mention travel out to where i am. i have emailed them though and will be waiting ...

The law states that preference must be given to working families over a number of other considerations. However, I have never been in a situation where I have needed to deny places to non working children - I have in the past, asked families to change their days to accomodate the needs of working families though.
I am not sure how full centres manage this one.

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What would i say i when i ring and ask,?

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It's called priority of access - did you receive a centre handbook when you enquired? It should have a clear section about this in it. I would ask them, what is their policy on priority of access and do they have families who aren't needing care for work reasons that could be moved to accomodate you.

I've heard the preference-to-both-parents-working/studying thing too, but I've never seen it happen, especially not in FDC where the carer pretty much suits themselves as to who gets the places.

This is an issue especially for Defence families who move a lot and therefore face an awful lot more of their share of waiting lists then they ever should have to.

FWIW I think there needs to be a better provision for families where a parent is dealing with serious illness. I was having chemotherapy and struggled to get places for the days when I was actually having the treatments as well as the days afterwards when you're sick in bed. That's all kinds of wrong.

MD that is very unfair.....actually in that case SCCB could also be offered.....the system is very flawed in more than one way!

Keep ringing the ones that you like PP. there are waiting lists and then there are waiting lists iykwim. In the city I live in it is not unusual for the waiting list to be 2 years long (there are currently 700 kids on the wait list at my DD's centre and that was culled after they sent out a letter asking people to confirm that they still needed a place - there were over 1000 before that ) but I jumped the list a bit because I just kept calling and visited a couple of times.

Good luck :hug:

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I am not sure how full centres manage this one.

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Non-working families just don't get in in the first place. And if they do end up that way (another baby comes along and parent stops working) they get asked to drop down to one day, and they don't always get to choose the day. I was pretty ruthless about it when I was director of a place with a 300-kid waiting list. I had a mum get really flustered with me because her child might have to give up library day to change days - but then I'd have a wanting-to-work mum crying down the phone to me at least weekly.

Registered nannies can get you CCB. Problem is that it's minimal, and because there's extra paperwork involved for the nanny, they usually charge a bit more (I certainly did) and it cancels out any benefit that you get.

It's definitely worthwhile to call and ask - ausgirl has given good advice. And do keep calling - in theory it doesn't work, but in practice it does.

i have been calling fortnightly - an DH has thurs/fri off this week and so i physcially walked in with him (as i wanted his views on the centres too). and i told them that start date was monday (tomorrow0 but i have pushed it back another month (they only do orientation once a month).
One (1st choice) said can you leave them with family.. and i told her our closest family was 1200km away but didnt offer up any info on wiating only that we werent forgotten about.
the 2nd choice wouldnt give me booklets etc to read through until a position was available. The room leader told us she had space in her room but the owner said there wasnt... so who knows.

MD - it is terrible! is there anything available at the ospital for this kids when youa re getting treatment? i know that most public hopsti;al offer a home help for patients, i would ask about it from the discharge planning teams. Not just for care but for home help with chores etc - many people never know they can get it

I spoke to my centre about this. The problem they have is privacy. Whilst they state priority of care, it is hard to enforce, as they can't really ask for proof that a parent is working. I have been on both the working and non working with childcare. When I was not working, it was stressed to me that I may have to change a day, or drop my spot for someone else. I did have some priority at the time due to being new to town (no support) and pregnant. I had two days then, but lost a day with the change of year, I was offered it back a couple of months later.

When I did start working though, I had a hell of a time getting the days I needed. Different centre, but run by the same council (so same upper management, policy, shared staff etc). I had to really push for days and when I did question the priority of placement, then I was told about the privacy issue. I know many of the kids, the parents were not working and could be flexible with days (they were school mums who I spoke to, I kind of knew their schedule). I would never have asked for them to completely lose their place, as I do understand the importance of it, but all I asked for was some flexibility with placement.

There are "Priority of Access Guidelines". I have just had this battle as both my partner and I now work and need Jazz in for the three days where over working days overlap, and had a hell of a time! Director told me I could go on a waiting list, which I did but I kept thinking... if non-working/non-studying mums are using those spaces, couldn't they just change days? It's not like I can change days, as it was my boss told me I could have Jazz there temporarily, but I know mysef that I can't really do my job if Jazz is there. I looked this up (Priority for allocating places in child care services), and brought it up with the Director. Low and behold, I got the extra two days I needed. I'm not against non-working parents. We've always had a non-working parent here, and my partner also studied but she did it at home so we quite happily changed days last year for a working family who needed the day we had, no drama, I mean, my partner was studying from home, very flexible, so the day we had was inconsequental.

Edit... should read the rest of the post first, sorry. I empathise with you, I was stressing thinking I'd have to leave by 6am to drive Jazz half an hour away in the wrong direction and then half an hour back, and factor in traffic and drop off, just to go to work by 7.30am... YUCK! And then same again in the afternoon. BLEH!

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the 2nd choice wouldnt give me booklets etc to read through until a position was available. The room leader told us she had space in her room but the owner said there wasnt... so who knows.

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Honestly this would concern me, how are you to make a fully informed choice if they are unwilling to provide all the information available to yourself? How are you meant to know what their policy and procedures are if they wont tell you until there is a position? It would seem to be wasting everyones time if you are waiting on a list and calling in the hopes of getting a position only to find out later that you dont really want your child in that environment anyway. But maybe thats just me?

Ive been both, Ive been the SAHM with a spot, asked to leave FDC not because they needed the spot but because DS ended up with allergies and landed himself in the too hard basket for the carer. And Ive been the working and studying (at the same time) mum, who found ourselves without a placement (again due to DS allergies - this time the centre was at fault incorrectly feeding him and a whole harrah of other issues there) and back onto a waiting list, between a rock and a hard place which almost cost me my job. We called our chosen centre every other week. Our centre also has a policy (which we were informed about on placing on the list) that if you didnt keep them informed every 6 months then they would take you off the list. All the centres and pre-schools here have a list. Im fairly certain that due to our circumstances and continuing to show interest over the entire time we were on the list that our manager tried very hard to get us our spot even though it still took some time and no doubt lots of shuffling. (Or maybe she just wanted me to stop calling? lol) I will be forever grateful either way. That said there weren't 20 odd families etc on the list with us either. Keep calling, you never know and at least when you do get in, you will be really familiar with the manager lol.

Thanks again girls.
Abigail - i am sorry to hear your experience too. I feel like that nagging mother ringing all the time lol.
but yes i thought it was weird but again the owner had broken english (which is very common in our suburb) so not sure if she understood what i was saying :(