VENT: my child talking about suicide on Christmas Day

i am two years separated, my child has never accepted moving away and living separately from her dad - they have twice weekly contact.

The last few months, she has been talking about "being no use of her being in the world", how she's "not important to anyone" etc etc. "no-one needs me". "no point of being alive". "if i wasn't here, you could use my room as a spare room". If i wasn't here, you and daddy wouldn't have to waste money on me".

It was a few times a week, now it's daily. Today she told me, she knew how to kill herself, i swallowed some air and tried to calmly ask her, "How?", as i thought i should know, and she said "easy, just drown myself". She wasn't saying it to shock or to get a laugh, but very straightforward about it. She is just turned six.

i feel sick. My gorgeous DD - i can't even type it out -

i tell her every day how much i love her, she is important to me, i do need her. I tell her people love her and need her, not for what she does, but just for being her.

I don't resent spending money on her, i do go without so she can have what she needs, but i don't resent that, i do it gladly. I never say "i can't buy X for me, cos i've just bought you school shoes".

So much of what she is saying, is like the opposite of the things i am saying to her, it's so confusing. She obviously is not believing or hearing me.

We have an appointment, an initial assessment session with a child mental health services person middle of January, i realise that's only a fortnight away, but right now, it feels a LONG way away.

I don't know how my bright, funny, happy child can suddenly be thinking such morbid thoughts.

Vent over.

i know i'm being silly, i should be glad we have an appointment and leave it at that.

After the initial appointment, i have no idea when they will see her next, if at all.

Wow. That's heartbreaking. I just don't understand how someone so young can think such thoughts :( as a new mum I can't even begin to imagine how you must feel hearing those words out of your child's mouth :( good luck with the appt, hopefully soon you can get to the bottom of what's causing her to think this way. Take care.

:comfort:
that sounds scary and heart breaking. I have no advice but here if you need an ear.

can u start a project to do with her? sewing, gardening, model making or something.
that would give you some positive together time and maybe help her change focus over the holidays

thanks, it IS heartbreaking Bella and BD. She spent quite a bit of today depressed. Very lonely xmas for her with no kids to play with. Her father had hardly any food at his home - very empty fridge, like he hadn't even done the weekly shop, it was a weird xmas. She liked her presents. The focus at xmas is being surrounded by family, different age groups (cousins, grandparents), sharing special food. She's very aware that's not our reality. She's all of a sudden very angry, about things like, not going on amusement rides at public events e.g xmas lights. This has been the same every year, and she's never made a fuss before. Now all of sudden, she's angry about missing out.

BD, we do projects together. She loves art and craft especially. We made xmas decorations together (paper chains and snowflakes), xmas eve we made gingerbread together. Tonight we started using the large french knitter i gave her for xmas, and she's keen to continue that project tomorrow morning - when i work out if i'm using it correctly.

So many things she got for xmas involve art, craft, beginner sewing. She loves drawing quite detailed pictures, drew some lovely xmas cards.

TOday we did her xmas jigsaw, opened a small Mecanno set (she loves using spanner etc), watched first part of Singing in the Rain (she loves movies with dancing in them).

we do these things, she enjoys them, but still comes out with suicidal ideation comments, in the middle of doing a project. Whatever i'm doing, it's not enough. All the hugs, kisses and i love you's from me, are not sufficient to make her feel loved and love herself. Not fishing here, just saying what i'm thinking and feeling.

Oh Gigi how absolutely heart breaking xox I have no words - I'm glad you can get her to that appointment and go from there.

Xoxox here if you ever need to vent/cry/etc

Can I ask why she wasn't around any other kids on Xmas day? Sorry, I don't know your situation at all, I'm just wondering why you would describe her Xmas as lonely?

In Gigi's family it's just her and bilby.

What an upsetting situation you are dealing with. It sounds like your doing so much to help your DD.
Would it be worth going to or going back to your GP since the conversations are now more frequent? Your GP may be able to suggest something in the meantime or pull some strings to get your DD seen earlier.

Gigi, first great bug hugs. Its not nice at all hearing your child express their feeling like this. Evan who is 10.5 has expressed this sort of talk since he was bilbys age. His anxiety teamed with aspergers is mentally crippling him. He is on anti depressents now. We had to hide the kitchen knives for a while there while adjusting his dose.

Just keep telling her that she is important to you and its upsetting to hear she feels that she is not. I had to be black and white with Evan about it, he would say if he was dead it would be easier for everyone. So I explained how he was wrong because of the impact his death would have on so many people. Siblings, extended family, school mates, even kids at school who are not his friends, teachers etc. They would all need to deal with the impact of his death. It seemed to make him think.

Is it possible she is feeling like a burden on her dad? Empty fridge etc, is it possible he is saying things that she is inturpreting as blame on her?

What does dad say about it all? Does she say the same things to him?

With getting upset on missing out on things, I think that is just her age, becoming aware of what others have and do.

Hugs Gigi,
So sad to hear what you and your DD are going through.
It's great to hear that you have an appointment for her in the new year, but it doesn't hurt to ask for any help before that!
I also live with someone who talks of suicide often (although in our case it's an adult)
Does it make any difference if you say to her how much you would miss her if she was gone? How you need each other?
A friend of mine had a similar experience with her kids when her marriage ended, but once again they were a bit older. She kept reassuring them just how much she loved/needed/would miss them. It seemed to be better after they saw a psychologist.

Wishing you the best.

That's so sad Gigi, your DD is so beautiful. I am also wondering if her father has been saying anything she might be overhearing etc about her being a burden and the like?

Gigi, I'd give Beyond Blue or Lifeline a call and see if they can give you some advice on how to deal with this ((hugs))

bilby's dad's fridge was very bare, i suspect more to do, with his lack of planning, (used the day before xmas to do things that really could have waited, rather than doing the weekly food shopping - which was sorely needed). He kept giving her white bread rolls with cheese on them every few hours, so she technically was being given food - but wasn't eating it. I can't understand why he would invite us over (bilby's desire, was to have xmas with both of us), with so little food in. I felt embarrassed once i realised. Went home last night with bad hunger pains.

i do go thru with her - if you weren't here, i would be devastated, daddy would be devastated, list off all the people who would miss her. List all the people who love how she draws, mention how many people love her just because she is her, not because of anything she does.

We are alone at xmas because bilby has one little cousin, same age, who lives interstate. There are no grandparents. One auntie, who has gone on holiday. That's it. Bilby is alone most of the time. I will attempt to arrange some playdates during the holidays (inbetween 12.15 VACswim lessons). All her classmates live 30mins away (near her school). One mum wanted us to go iceskating with her and her DD, but i declined, we need low cost playdates. Bilby is very social, loves being with other kids. I struggle with being able to provide her with that. Our neighbourhood is very dodgy, so she is not playing with the other kids on our street.

thanks for listening to my vent. i just want to make it better for her, and obv i can't. Doesn't stop me desiring to fix it for her, irrational i know.

I think it would be worth talking her Dad about his priorities. I would suspect bilby is reading into things & making her own judgement on them. For example, he had other things to do the on christmas eve. When he could have been shopping.
Bilby may think he did not think SHE (and you) was not important enough for him to think about going shopping for, so you had a nice meal on xmas day.

He simply didn't think & Im sure it wasn't a case of not caring enough. BUT Bilby would be taking everything to heart & then letting her self believe its her.

Sit her down & talk to her about yesterday & find away to explain that her Dad can be a little absent minded sometimes & it is in no way a reflection of his love for her or her importance to him.

When someone is depressed, those thoughts seem rational. Whilst telling her positive thoughts are important, it wont necessarily fix things. An appointment with a child psychologist or psychiatrist is important.

I know it's tough dealing with someone who is angry and depressed. :hug:

hun can you contact your local church regarding a youth group for her to attend, im sure she'd love it and would be low cost or free
xxx

huge hugs Gigi :hug: as others have said, suicidal thoughts seem rational when someone is depressed and it is very hard to find a way through that. I'm so glad you have an appointment with mental health services and hopefully they will find a way through to Bilby and help her see her true worth. Can you include her dad in this so that he can see the impact that his lack of planning has had on her? Not to make him feel bad but so that he can ensure he is supporting her recovery too.

This link may help:
http://www.kidshelp.com.au/grownups/...cs/suicide.php

Many :hug: to you and your little girl.

Regards,
Dianne

:hug:
Beyond Blue have a youth section with a 24hr support line too.

oh Gigi how heartbreaking for you :hug: i hope the appt helps set up a course of action for you both. as others have mentioned Kids Help Line or Beyond Blue might be a good place to start for between now and the appt :hug:

Its great you do so much craft etc with her.That will be helping her feel secure and safe with you and I would say thats why she feels comforatble telling you the things she does- shes not attention seeking just sharing. That shows what a great job you are doing!
I agree that her daddys lack of thought and planning would have a huge impact on what she was feeling yesterday. Is it often like that with him?

I hope today you both have a better day :comfort:

i don't do as much craft with her as i should, but i made extra effort for xmas. I have to push myself, do prep and practise first.

Bilby's dad has had planning block for as long as i can remember, it often impacts on other people, including bilby and me, even though we are spilt up. Nothing that is said at mediation, about the importance of routine (e.g eating and sleeping routines) has any effect on him, it's water off a duck's back. We have had numerous health professionals say the same thing, bilby's dad will either nod or say yes, but not do it in practice. He will make her wait for lunch until 2pm then wonder why she's ratty - she has very poor appetite, if you miss her "window", she refuses to eat at all. Sometimes even if you DO catch her window, she will eat very little. He puts her in front of tv/movies on a big projection screen, in spite of being told how detrimental that is, to her and her desire to eat.

everything in his life, apart from work, seems to be chaotic. He has no ability to see how it effects others, even if it is pointed out to him. I have done that, out of love, out of frustration, out of being in debt due to his inactions on tax returns, out of anger - nothing has any effect. He refuses to co=operate about his will, his insurance, his super etc, so if he got hit by a bus tomorrow, bilby would get nothing, in fact, i think it would send ME bankrupt, as there would be no-one else to pay for his funeral but me. ANything to do with acting responsibly - acts like an ostrich.

we are meant to be working co-operatively, so that bilby has both of us as parents and gets as much stability as possible, clearly, it's not working. The day before xmas, his first day off, he chose to drive all over town, hand delivering cheques, that COULD have been mailed, to people who won't be able to deposit them in banks for days, INSTEAD of getting ready for xmas with his little girl. i just mean, having BASIC foodstuffs in the home.

i had no high expectations of xmas lunch, i didn't expect roast and trimmings etc, i just thought there would be at least enough food in the house for sandwiches, at least. I knew, the most important thing was, that bilby got to spend xmas how she wanted, with both parents present.

that's very frustrating. has he been checked for a disorder or depression? sounds like he could have something. His inability to do these simple life things are a worry.
I don't understand how a parent would have such disregard for a child's well being after being told by many.

I have a craft lover too so I know how much work it is and when my 3 all want to do different stuff it gets overwhelming lol.

She is lucky she has such a caring, giving mother :)

Gah if it wasn't for Bilby wanting to spend time with her dad, I would be cutting all contact. He needs a slap to (or as BD has pointed out, some professional help) realise the impact he has on her.

I would go as far as talking to Bilby & telling her that he is sick, or some other wording to help her understand that it is NOT her. That he has some problems planning etc.

We have known each other online for as long as our little girls have been here. Gigi, you are an amazing person who despite your own personal challenges have overcome so much & are providing Bilby with everything you can. You are the poster child of good mothers.

I sure hope you are able to get the right help and answers. I hope that Bilbys dad is able to get some help too.

I was just thinking along similar lines.
I think I would explain to her a bit more about daddy and how he operates. explain it has nothing to do with her or how much he loves her, he just isn't capable of looking after a child or another person. it can be done in a way that's not biatchy just sharing things with her.
I am assuming this is part of the reason you aren't with him?

I would also write down the min standards and requirements he needs to meet to have her vist.
so he knows. its not hard to do a delivery order at the supermarket online (if you live in a city). he's gotta lift his game up.

Are you anywhere near the western suburbs of Melbourne I have two little girls, a five year old and a three year old and they would love to have a play date at a park if you are near us?

thanks "in love", my DD would adore to play with yours, but we're in another state. DD "adopts" other people's little siblings, she would LOVE to be the Big Sister!

ex just picked up bilby, for the weekly "daddy night" where they have dinner together. I asked if he had been food shopping, and he hadn't! I pushed a carton of milk and a dozen eggs into his hands, he took off telling bilby, mummy is cross, yes, i did raise my voice, i coudln't believe i gave him all today to go buy some food and he still chose to do something else. reorganise half his home, in his words "looks like a bomb went off" - so there will be nowhere for bilby to sit and eat. ARGHHHHHH. He wanted to see her today and i said last night "have today to yourself, so you can get some stuff done e.g housework and food is what i was alluding to, as i thought, maybe he is exhausted from work and hadn't had any time to get basics done - so here is a day - to get basics done. THEN spend time with bilby.

i knew today would be dodgy for finding somewhere open, to buy food (which is why i thought people stocked up, on basics, half a week before a run of public holidays. He has a big big fridge, plenty of space to store foodstuffs. I am the one with a small fridge, can't buy the "cheaper if you buy two loaves" bread, cos i have nowhere to store the 2nd loaf.

Oh wow Gigi, how upsetting that must be!
I think with something like this it might really be necessary to seek professional help

That's really quite larking Hun for a 6 year old to be saying these things let alone having a plan. What's her dad like? Mentally stable? I'd be questioning him and working together to find out what's going on. Most times kids have picked up on what one parent has said. Maybe he's said a few things to her in passing and she's flown with it thinking she's a burden to you both. It is especially alarming with him picking her up today and saying to her 'mummy's cross with me'. She's a kid and doesn't need to know these things, he should be promoting a positive relationship with you.what else is he saying to her? Separated or not you guys are still both her parents and need to be a united front with regard to your relationship. Good luck Hun, you sound like you are doing and saying all the right things.xo

Does he know she's saying these things?

Look, we're all amateurs here, but I would suspect that she's picking up on him saying similar things. You're obviously doing all you can to instill a strong sense of self-esteem in her, the only other thing I can think of is some activity that makes her feel she is useful to others whether that's gong to feed the ducks (the ducks need us to feed them to survive) or visits to an aged care home (you can't die, Mrs X needs us to go and have a chat with her) etc. etc.

DD1 had a phase where she talked about death a lot - didn't want me to die etc. etc. I know it's different, but I emphasised how neither she nor I were going to die any time soon because we were far too busy and talked about our future plans. That seemed to calm her down quite a lot and the phase has passed.

Huge hugs. I don't know where her dad has some sort of disorder or is just a lazy turd. Either way, not on to have a child on a custody visit and not have food in the house.

The next time he turns up & tells you he has not done any shopping. Don't let him take her. Its not acceptable. Nothing has been signed & agreed to so you wont be breaching any visitation rules etc.

i don't know how to disappoint her, she is all excited to see him, every wednesday night. He turns up, she is bursting out the door, i don't know how to say "no, you're not going now" when she's so gee-ed up. I felt like cancelling it all around 4pm, when ex and i spoke on phone and he sounds exhausted, i tried to say, you're sounding very tired, how about you see her tomorrow instead, and he vehemently denied being tired and said it would all be fine.

At that stage, after hearing about the "changing the back living area around", i knew that would take up the whole day, so the chance of him having gone food shopping was virtually zilch. bilby came in, listening to my phone conversation, so i felt locked into the existing plans. She is angry enough at me already, because i am stopping her living with daddy.

He's gotta lift his game up.
you can always use- if the child welfare agency went to your house and found it in this state and no food...

sounds like you need some real help with him.
maybe centrelink would be a place to start or whatever the child welfare agency is. Im sure they can point you in the right direction.
this situation isn't good for any of you :(

in comparison with what other single mums go through, having to send their child (court ordered) to stay with dads who have sus people in the house, no bed for child etc etc, i realise i am in a better situation than many. At least i know she is not in danger of drugs/alcohol/etc when in his care, so i'm in a much better situation, than many other single mums out there - who are rightfully worried out of their heads. Child Services would not attend to this, she is in no immediate danger, she does get fed, even if it's poorly by my standards. No-one is abusing her, she has a bed, she has her own room. Child Services is so over-stretched in this state, they cannot attend all the Priority One cases.

What he does - poor planning, inability to prioritise, lack of judgemental re age appropriate information, it's all a grey area. Nothing concrete. I've been told so many times in mediation, i do not get any say, on how things function in his home when she is there.

You are all lovely, but no-one can fix the unfixable for me, i just needed to vent. Jan 16 roll on

and if you have a lovely partner, be grateful, they are a rare and special breed.

Yes Butterfly Dawn, the patterns of behaviour now, also contributed to me having to leave, two years ago.

sorry I didn't mean to offend you :(

your right she is a lot better off then many.
its really sad that there's no help available to those in disparate need and those like yourself who could do with a hand of giving a partner a wake up call.

the system needs help and many of us need resources to call on at times.

:hug: I really didn't mean to offend or sound judgmental. was just running through ideas.

Hi Gigi, It must be very upsetting to hear your DD speak about her feelings of worthlessness. I hope your appointment in January is positive and gives you some direction in how to best help Bilby. :hug:

On a practical front, could you send with your DD whatever meals she will need whilst she is with her dad? A sandwich for lunch, a bowl of pasta for dinner...? I realise you shouldn't have to and that he should be capable of providing her with food, but if you send meals at least you will now she is fed whilst she is with him. Would he accept the meals if you tried? She could have a special lunchbox for when she is with daddy and you could make it something she looks forward to.