It hurts!!

My nipples are so sore and I've only been doing this for 6 days :( It hurts.
Firstly I had a graze on the left side but then that got better and the right side got bad. I got onto it straight away and went to see a LC and she told me that attachment was perfect etc and it was probably just one bad feed or something that hurt my nipple and it will get better. It hurts a lot when she first latches on and then gets a bit better during the feed but I don't know how to tell if the continued hurting during the feed is because my nipples are already sore or because she's on wrong!! It always looks right, I can barely see any of my nipple when she's on there. I make sure she gets a big mouthful.

I just want to cry :( Everything hurts me. Firstly a really long painful labour, then a c-section, then the breastfeeding. When do I get to enjoy my baby without being in pain :(

Can anyone give me some tips on breastfeeding when lying down too? I can't get the hang of it. I need one hand to hold my boob, then the other one is kinda lying straight out iykwim but I can't reach her head/back to help put her on. I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me??

Ok, I think that's all for now, just had to get that all out. This is so hard!! I'm glad I have you guys to vent to and ask questions.

Hun, give the ABA a call 1800 mum2mum. They will be able to give you help with positioning, and also with attachment.

It will get better, and soon you won't hurt anymore, I promise. :hug: :hug: :hug:

oh hun. Hugs!! Yes it is painful to start with. I got to the point that I would cry just THINKING about Ashton wanting to feed. BUT it does get better :) By 3 or 4 weeks the pain had gone and I started to enjoy feeding.
The laying down think I don't hold my boob. I lay down, pop it out, lay Ash on his side in front of me and align him so he is attached but his nose is clear. One hand straight above him, the other holding his back and pushing him to my tummy. Did that make sense?

Hey Heaven... :hug:

Stick with it, I feel your pain, literally. Also had a long labour, no c-sect but an epi that got infected, and sore nipples.

One of the MWs in hosp said to me that it is expected to hurt a bit. I find when DD first attaches it still hurts a bit, and I know she is on right. I guess its just getting used to the constant pulling and sucking.

Are you onto the lansinoh? Leasha on here suggested that to me to help with the tenderness. Put it on after a feed.

With the feeding in bed, I'll have to write more later... DD needs a change!

i second janie hun and call the ABA, just giving you a big hug too :hug:

Janie- Can I ring the ABA even if I'm not a member? What do they do over the phone? I saw a LC this week and am going to see them again at the breastfeeding clinic on Monday to check again that I'm doing it right.

missymoo- that's what I'm like, right now I know she's going to wake up soon and I can feel myself getting all tense coz I know what's coming. Thanks for the info on lying down. I feel like I have to hold my boob tho otherwise she won't get on right. I will try, I'm just so scared to try and hurt it more or something but I'm going to give it a go. Would be easier in the night.

OP- The epi getting infected does not sound good. Believe it or not I had to have 2 epi's and then a spinal!! Nothing would work on me. Feels like everything that could went wrong!! Thanks, I have a small sample of lansinoh I'm using now!

AJP- Thankyou!!

Does it hurt like this for everyone at the start or am I doing something wrong? I can't figure out what and apparently the LC couldn't either!! But how does my nipple get grazed if nothing's wrong! When she comes off it seems more sore on the top of my nipple and more pulled out. I think it should look more even but the LC said the shape was alright as long as it doesn't look flattened or have a ridge or anything.

Thanks for the support guys. It's good to hear it gets easier coz right now I can't imagine it and I feel like I'm never going to be able to go anywhere or do anything.

sara i had sucking blisters on my nipples which hurt like buggery, but they have healed, i also corrected my attachment, so your nipples are symetric when she comes off, not almond shaped or mis-shaped at all?? has she been checked for tongue-tie???? if she has tongue tie she might not be able to get the nipple far enough back in her mouth

That's what it looks like on one, like a blister, it looks a bit white on the end when she comes off. No, it's not symetrical, it looks like she's sucking more of the top of my nipple coz it's pulled out more than the bottom. The LC said the shape was ok but I don't think it is. I don't know what needs to change though like what part she needs to get more of to make it more symmetrical. Nope hasn't been checked for tongue tie.
OMG she needs to feed again now off the sore one, wish me luck.

:hug: it's the peak of nipple sensitiveness for you ATM! Even us "old hands" get sore nipples with newborns cos those tiny little mouths are so strong ;)

Take it one feed at a time and keep practicing the lay down feed. Also try the footy hold one to change the angle of where bub is latching on.

Gotta go BBL...

Oh hun HUGE hugs!!! I also had the sorest nipples with 'perfect' attachment. For me the first 10 seconds were AGONY and then it would pass...I would cry every time. This lasted about 2 weeks I think. For me it was my nipple tissue stretching. I had pretty flat nipples IYKWIM and it took a while for the tissue to stretch to form a good "teat" (lol).

With lying down, I would just wait a little while yet. It takes a while to be able to get the hang of it, and it sounds like you need to concentrate on getting the attachment right every time. My baby self attaches now without me doing anything, and it wasn't until then that I could get the lying down thing happening (at around 3 weeks I think).

My LC said to me..its ok to be a learner. Before long you will be able to breastfeed walking around the house doing the washing. And its true. In these early days, try and take every feed as it comes...one day you will be feeding and realise "Hey it doesn't hurt"...

Lansinoh was my saviour...I definitely recommend it also.

I found it easiest in the first week or two to get Shel to help with attaching. I just couldn't coordinate it all, especially after the c/s, I just couldn't get the hang of it!

I would position my boob and make sure I was ok with the wound etc, I'd hold Jazz and Shel would help get Jazzy's head up to the boob (chest to chest, that is the key in the first few months!) and make sure her chin was flush to the boob and her nose was clear.

It's pretty normal for it to be sore though :hug: :hug: :hug: I can guarentee that it DOESN'T last forever. The first 3-4 weeks are the hardest in terms of nipple sensitivity. They aren't used to being stimulated constantly, I guess its a bit like when you get new shoes. They rub in new places and it hurts the first few times you wear them but after a while your skin gets tougher and the shoes don't hurt anymore. LOL funny analogy but its so true!

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it looks a bit white on the end when she comes off. No, it's not symetrical, it looks like she's sucking more of the top of my nipple coz it's pulled out more than the bottom

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Oh, like a lipstick??? My DD did that to me too (and still does when she's lazy). It could be an issue, but it could also just be your bub's technique (as the case with me).

For me it was because she was trying to cope with the flow, so she'd go on perfectly, then when the milk come down, she'd kinda pull off and then only be on the end of my nipple so she didn't gag on the milk. She still does this, the only difference is my nipples are tough as nuts these days.

Hang in there is all I can say!!!! Be really kind to yourself and get lots of support from anyone you can.

You're doing a fabulous job!!!!

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Does it hurt like this for everyone at the start or am I doing something wrong? I can't figure out what and apparently the LC couldn't either!! But how does my nipple get grazed if nothing's wrong! When she comes off it seems more sore on the top of my nipple and more pulled out. I think it should look more even but the LC said the shape was alright as long as it doesn't look flattened or have a ridge or anything.

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It hurts at the start for me.

My nipples are exactly like that when DD pulls off! Doesn't sound wrong to me...

Does Grace ever pull back on the nipple, then start sucking again? Or make little kissing noises?

Sometimes Isabel does that - it means she was attached correctly but has pulled off a bit, I have to take her off and re-attach.

ETA: Lying down was tricky for me too, it tended to pull on the wound and make the whole experience more painful. But once I could move a bit easier by myself, laying down and feeding was so good!

Hi heaven
I have a great DVD on breastfeeding I would be happy to lend you a copy if you want. Also If you are not too far from me I could come and see you and perhaps give you some help. (No charge)

Thanks so much everyone for all your advice!!
The last feed didn't hurt as much!! Hurt when she got on but then stopped!! omg breakthrough, lol. I tried giving her more of the bottom of my nipple and less of the top. I think I was giving her too much of the top bit maybe and then she had to try harder to suck it up to the roof of her mouth, hurting the top. So when she came off this time it looked a lot better shape. And after feeding my nipples have still felt so sore and stingy and they're not now. Maybe I've worked it out, I shall see what the next feed brings! lol.

Umm....I can't remember who said what.

Yes, the lipstick shape, that describes it! But it wasn't as much this time. And on the bad side it has like what looks like a white blister on the end, ouch.

LOL, yes, I have to get DH to help, her hands go everywhere and he has to hold them for me. But the mw told me to feed her unwrapped.

Alan- thankyou, what is the DVD, I may have already seen it, my mw lent me two good ones! Thanks so much for your offer, I live in Brissy though, a bit far!!

Thankyou so much for all your support everyone, it was really getting me down and I was feeling like I couldn't do it but I feel better already :hug: I will persist and it will get easier!!

another thing, I didnt do the laying down for a few weeks. Ash would have been almost a month old before I started doing that, once BF was well established.
I have also hear people reccomend nipple shields. I haven't used them but you could try if it gets too much.
Hugs!! Glad the last feed was a bit better. Now Ash just gets on and off himself and it doesn't hurt at all :) There is a light at the end of the tunnel!

sara your right seh needs more of the areola where her bottom jaw is if that makes sense, make sure her head is tilted slightly up/back too.
i had to feed lying down for the ffirst 24 hours and it is harder!!!.
you'll find once you get your attachment sorted the sucking blisters heal very quickly, id also rub some breastmilk on your nipples too after a feed

Mel- Thanks! So it won't be this awkward forever, she will eventually be able to do it herself! Thank God for that. There will be no breastfeeding in front of anyone else atm, lol.

AJP- Thankyou, IKWYM. I was putting her around to the side too far. I was reading something on the ABA website and it said my nipple should be in line with her nose so I'm remembering that. Yep, am putting breastmilk on them and letting them air, hopefully no unexpected visitors, haha.

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Now Ash just gets on and off himself and it doesn't hurt at all

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Yep, Jazz can do it all herself now, since about 2ish/3ish months, just turned her head and latches on. You're both still got your 'L's in this, so its ok to not have it 100% fluent and efficient!

You're doing a great job hun. The others are right, it does get easier. I really wish someone had told me at first that it's only the first few weeks when attachment is so hard. Before long they open their mouths and attach perfectly without any help. And that pain will stop too. It's so much harder when their mouths are tiny and you are both learning.

The lipstick shape means there is an attachment problem, so that could be why you've had so much pain. It's great that you have worked out how to prevent that. If that's the only problem you will be pain free in no time.

Hang in there hun, it will be better really soon. You have done really well to have bfing going so well already.

yep the lining up with nose was what i was forgetting too!!! sorted all of our issues!!!!
remember that and chin on boob and your set!!

SJ, you've been given some great tips. Yes, it's important to line her nose up with your nipple. Also as AJP said to tuck her chin into your breast. And to be chest to chest ie. make sure she is facing your body, not tilted back looking at you etc if that makes sense. You see older babies being cradled and leaning back looking up at mum, but it's not good for newborns learning to attach well.

ABA counsellors can do alot over the phone, that's what they're trained to do ;) They'll certainly be able to help you with attachment, and describing how to feed lying down comfortably. You can definitely call without being a member, though being a member is great ;) :D

Glad you had a breakthrough feed before, it will definitely get easier over time!

SJ, it sounds like you're having a bit better time now. That's great.
I'm another one who took a few weeks to feel comfortable, even with no consistent attachment issues. I had a couple of grazes too, probably from 1 or 2 bad attachment feeds. I found after a few weeks things really settled down. But yes, those first few weeks were really tough. I found even the spray from the shower on my nipples made them sore. But after a little while you will look down one day and realise you are not in any kind of pain and you are both extremely good at it :) It will happen for you, mate. Hang in there.

Thankyou for all the tips guys!!!! It really helps.

Can anyone tell me how often and for how long she should be feeding atm?? It feels like she is feeding constantly and it's all I do!! Sometimes I can't believe she can fit that much in, it's unbelievable!!!! And how do I know when to change breasts? How do I know when one is empty. I think she would just keep going back on the same side if I kept giving it to her...

In the early stages Ash would feed anywhere from 10 minutes to 45 minutes on one side, then burp and top up on the other side. The top up side was usually 5-15 minutes and he would fall asleep feeding. I would burp him again and put him down or in the sling or whatever. The next feed I gave the same boob that he has topped up on so this one got emptied properly and the top up was the other one. That way they are rotating :)
Now he is on and off in 10 minutes tops ;) Once she gets more efficient at feeding you will find you wont feel like you are feeding constantly... until they go through a growth spurt and that is a whole OTHER fun time lol

Oh and also remember she is trying to built up your supply to her needs. It really is early days. Take it easy, offer the breast when she wants it, and rest while she's feeding.

Hey Sara :hug:

You are doing a GREAT job - this breastfeeding stuff sure is challenging and something that takes time and patience (as I've found out!). You will get there, just keep persisting and if it doesn't feel right, then it probably isn't right. That's what I've learnt.
If it hurts, try to change her position, even if you have to take her off and attach again. All the girls have given great advice.
Keep that LC close by to you like I have done with mine. It's the BEST thing I could have done was hire an LC... money well spent! I was just about ready to give up BFing 2 weeks ago but with the help of the LC I have come along way with Ava.

As you know (from my BF thread) I've had so many problems with BFing, attachment issues, low supply due to Ava not sucking effectively, painful cracked sore nipples to the point I couldn't breastfeed anymore from it :( and took 5 days to heal it and only just today am I using it again :D

I have to hold my boobs too as they are so big, it does make it difficult but it will get easier.... soon you'll be a pro ;) It's only now, for me, after 4 weeks that I'm only JUST getting the hang of it!!! And yes, I too felt like I wasn't able to enjoy BFing too because it was so painful every time she attached, I would cry and get so tense and stressed it was awful....

eta - with nipple shields it's best to only use them under the advice of an LC as they "can" effect your milk supply I believe. I don't use mine. Yet others use them and don't have problems.

As for how long they feed, try to follow your baby's lead. Watch her face as she feeds. If she looks like she's ready for a burp and starts to kinda pull off a little bit perhaps bring her off gently and give her a burp then offer the other side if she was on for long enough on the first side. Again, check with your LC she will tell you what's best for you and your situation... I agree it sure does feel like all we ever do is sit on the couch or lie on the bed and feed!!!
Lying down position can be good for sore nipples i found.

SJ, you'll be wanting to feed her at least 8 times in 24 hours, and probably more. She may take a while to feed at this stage, but as Barb pointed out in another thread, they are also just enjoying being with you as well as feeding. So little Grace may take longer to feed even though she doesn't need to as such. If you feel she is finished drinking and is just having a suck (like if she's taking over an hour to feed) then you can take her off if it's bothering you. But its really normal I think for them to take ages at this stage. They do get heaps more efficient as you go along, and also heaps more wakeful. In a few months time you will be getting frustrated because she's so easily distracted from the breast!
IRT knowing when your breast is 'empty', personally I never knew. I just fed Natty from one breast until I thought she'd had enough. Like Mel said, if you think she needs a top-up you can offer the other breast. Thing is, your breasts are never truly 'empty' - you will keep making more as she's sucking.

Oh the whole "empty" thing got me in the beginning too. I kept obsessing about "emptying" the breast, but I always seemed to have milk. My little one would only ever feed from one breast and only ever for 10mins (she still does). In the first two weeks (actually first month) I was feeding anywhere from every hour to every 2.5 hours. I never figured it out...I just accepted she would want to suck all day and run with it. Even now DD pulls off and my breasts still have milk...

Don't forget they get a lot more than just milk from feeding, they get your undivided attention, warmth, security and lovely feeling of being with mummy!

Feeding is a relationship between you and bub, and every single one is different. I would say offer the breast whenever you want to and she seems keen. Breastfeeding isn't really established until about 3 weeks, so just look on it as special bonding time and practice.

A bit of a ramble, but I DO remember being where you are now...take care of yourself!

Heaven she should be feeding 8-12 times in a 24hr period and some babies are better at feeding so it will depend on her whether how long she is feeding for. Maybe try and do some lying down Bfeeding when no one else is in the bed, can be a bit hard trying to push the other person off the bed in the middle of the night LOL!
Will get easier, i also found the lanolin creams weren't helpful if you are using disposible breast pads....the stuff wound stick to the pad and it was like glue trying to pull a breast pad off, i found the express breast milk just alone much better!

The DVD is called ?The first Week? and another one is called ?Getting it right?. Let me know if you want me to post it to you.

Hunny! First of all CONGRATS!!!
You have done so well already!!

Now, about those boobs...
When they say it shouldn't hurt, its not right...DON'T LISTEN!
Sure, in some cases, it starts great, goes great & ends great, but not for us normal gals ;)
Pain is the first sign of poor attatchment, but not in every case.

Have faith...it DOES get better. It may hurt at every feed, but I promise it'll get easier.
I was there.
DD1 - I quit feeding at 6 weeks coz I was dreading every feed.
DD2 - only made it to 4 weeks, then got thrush, which made things even worse.
BUT, I had no support...You DO!

Try using Lansinoh, put it on after every feed, no need to wash it off.
You can put a warm washer on your nipple just before a feed. It helped me alot.
Get your boobs/nipples out in the sun. It'll help toughen them up.
After a feed, let your nipple dry in the fresh air. Air them out heaps. Express a bit of BM, & rub it around your nipple & let it dry.
Remember to change pads after every feed to keep them as dry against your skin as possible.
RELAX!

You could also get some bepanthen. You put it on about 10 minutes before a feed, leave it 5 minutes, then wash it off then feed. It has an anaesthetic in it & can help reduce the pain. Just remember to wash it off, coz it can make baby's mouth numb, not a nice feeling ;)

You can get some nipple sheilds too. I had thrush & cracks & just used them for a day or 2 while I healed. Never any longer, but they gave me a break while I got better.

My nipples are small. (Well I think they are compared to average.)
I only think that coz when I bought the sheilds I got the average size & they were huge on me.
So I think thats why it wasn't pain free for me.

Feeding for me is still slightly uncomfortable/annoying, but the pain is gone.
It took 6 weeks for me to work it out. Even then there were good & bad days, but the worst of it was over at 6 weeks.

You are doing so great & should be so proud of yourself!
I am!!

Sounds like you are getting it all worked out!

oh guess what I discovered the other day ... bonjella numbs the nipples lol Ash was carrying on cos of his teeth and would feed so I put it on him and stuck him straight on the breast and they went numb. Maybe you could try that? Don't kill me if it hurts though!

Skye is right. It's not ALWAYS poor attachment. Ashtons attachment was fine, it was just my nipples were sensitive and not used to being sucked on all day every day... who's are?! They do toughen up!

Look, it may well be that some mothers have pain when their attachment is correct, I'm sure that's so. And there can be other reasons for nipple pain when BFing. But SJ already said that she had a feed today when the pain went away, so that shows that things are improving for her, that the pain she was having earlier wasn't normal .

I think it's counter-productive to suggest that it's okay to have pain, that it's normal, when in fact for most breastfeeding mothers it indicates a problem with attachment. Yep, it might be okay for some, but for the majority it's not. And they could be reading this thread thinking that it's okay, they don't need help, they just need to persist through the pain. And then they end up with badly damaged nipples :(

Sorry to be a downer (and to hijack SJ) but I thought that needed pointing out.

You are right Janie...it generally is a poor attachment issue. I think it happens to us "perfect attachment" girls when the baby goes ON correctly, but kinda pulls back when the flow gets too much (as was the case with me). This is how I kept getting the "lipstick" shape. The solution is to take bub off and re-attach.

In the end my nipples toughened up on their own so I don't need to re-attach her myself, she just sucks the nipple back in her mouth again.

Ah..time heals all ills it seems, but in the meantime, you are right. You have to take care of those nipples and re-attach, re-attach, re-attach....so it stays correctly in her mouth.

I think you know yourself if bub is attached correctly, there is a difference between poor attachment pain and just nipple sensitivity. As you said Heaven you had a feed with much less pain, so you are on the correct road there. Also someone else said about the football hold, that could be good just to try her attaching onto a different part of the breast.

Yes obviously as I said, pain is the first sign of poor attatchment.
Sorry if it seemed like I said pain should be normal, or that you should ignore it.
I just wanted to point out that pain can be normal for some.
I stopped feeding my first DD coz I was told something was wrong & everyone kept drilling it into me that the pain wasn't right. I didn't want someone else giving up before they were ready.

I'm glad things are better so much quicker & easier for you SJ & that you are working it all out.
Sounds like you will do great.
Good luck.

Thankyou so much for all your tips, advice, and support girls!!
I think my nipples are slowly healing, today feeding has been less painful. That bit at the start where she sucks it to the back of her mouth still makes me cringe but then the pain eases off and it's almost enjoyable when I get it right. Unbelievable. It's hard when she's really hungry though and crying so I'm trying to get her on as soon as she wakes up and it doesn't hurt me as much coz she's not so frantic!!

I think it is the milk comes a bit too fast sometimes too. Esp at night time when she sleeps for longer and my boobs are more full. She keeps going on then pulling off a bit, then I have to take her off again and try again. And she starts crying. Not fun, but I'm getting there.

I'm feeling so much more positive today :grouphug: thankyou everyone!! Going to the breastfeeding clinic in the morning so hopefully they can check out what I'm doing and correct anything that's wrong.

Sara,
That's great to hear your nipples feel better today :hug:

I just thought I'd mention a cream I have for my nipples.... well mainly because one was so damaged and cracked to the point it was bleeding and I desperately needed it to heal.... but my LC got me onto this cream called "Kenacomb Otic" its an ointment used for healing something to do with ears generally GP's prescribe it for but she gets her clients to put it on their nipples and it truely helped me! So if you do find your nipple is a little grazed or damaged or cracked (hopefully they don't get as bad as mine did!!!!) then remember that cream and get your GP to write a script for you.

eta - Bonjella numbs the nipple.... that's a good one!! I was desperately in need of something that would numb my nipple at one stage when it was so bad and was even considering using ICE before a feed to numb it with.... but I didn't think Ava would appreciate that one ;)

Hi,
I just wanted to let you know that I had horrible nipple damage on one side (which was so badly cracked it got infected and mastitis etc) and experienced general SORE tenderness on both nipples for the first 3 weeks too, and the midwives kept saying, she's attached fine!!! I had to express of the bad one for a while and it took a couple of weeks to heal, BUT importantly once they healed they don't hurt AT ALL, not even a stinging or tingling or anything, and I have papery thin nipples - SO, if you persist it WILL get better. But if it gets to the point where you are so dreading the feeds that it inhibits your letdown or your bonding, trry nipple shields for a couple of days, or even expressing for a couple of days hwile using some serious ointment before you consider giving up.
I actually think the problem with my bub was the way she sucked, so sleepily and lazily but strongly for my poor nipples, and miraculously when she was a little older she was suddenly a pro at it - attachment never changed that much, but suddenly - no pain. Good Luck with it, it's so great that you're still breastfeeding because I know a few of my girlfriends gave up after only a few days of pain and tenderness, and it seems like the general vibe most people gave to me (except on this site) is 'oh, if it's a hassle or hurting, there's no harm in turning to formula', which can make you give up too soon IYKWIM.