Advice please

Violence against children is a deal breaker for you.

Your husband has started smacking the 2yo because "they deserved it" (once for kicking, once for yelling in the babies ear, and the second time was a whack across the back of the head, which was heard from the next room).

He was always a very calm person, but doesnt seem to cope with the toddler being a pretty normal toddler, and is very 'shouty' for the smallest things, and punishes immediately (ie takes away a toy with zero warning, rather than first saying 'thats a very noisy toy, if you arent quieter with it, I will put it away')

What would you do?

Leave?

Insist on parenting classes and anger management?

Or just hope that he improves, and continue to parent in your own way?

If my DH hit my child so hard I could hear it from the next room he would be out the door there and then. He can go off and work on his anger issues and maybe, maybe, I'd give him another chance.

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If my DH hit my child so hard I could hear it from the next room he would be out the door there and then. He can go off and work on his anger issues and maybe, maybe, I'd give him another chance.

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This. I've got big issues with violence involving children.

see thats how I always felt, but I never ever thought hed ever hurt the kids!
His reasoning was that it was 'instinct' to protect DS from DDs yelling, and he couldnt control it.
IMO if he cant control his anger/actions then he needs help

I'm sorry you are having this in your life.
I would talk with him. Explain its not on and insist on some anger management classes.
To me that's a warning, for everybody. And if it happened again, then he could go cool his heels somewhere else.

Babys do bring out the most instinctive things in most of us, and I don't believe its an excuse for what he did, but a reasonable reason. Just lacking the adult self control to not hit a small child.
Yelling in babies ear isn't a good thing to do either :(
I hope baby and toddler are ok after the incident. Sounds like you could all use a big hug :hug:

I wouldn't leave - I would kick his butt out the door so fast he wouldn't be able to pack.

I can put up with a lot (I have) but not when it comes to my kids.

Oh wow. Okay, if it were my DH, after the issues we have had in the past (no violence but anger issues, addiction etc) yes, it would be the last straw. Hitting children is not on here, I'd be devastated if anyone hit DD so hard you could hear it from the next room.

You say you're surprised he did it. Are you really though, deep down? If he has all these self control issues (getting angry at a toddler for doing normal toddler things all the time is a sign he can't manage his emotions properly, namely frustration), and that he's irritable, shouts etc, it sounds like this is an unfortunate progression of his anger going unchecked. So for your situation...I'm not sure. I would want a pretty good apology from him, both to me and the kids. I'd be looking out for him to actually admit he was an idiot, admit WHY his behaviour was wrong and stupid, and HOW he could avoid ever doing that again. If he couldn't identify those things, and just came up with excuses, justified himself or said he wouldn't do it again with nothing else, yeah, he's be out the door. Maybe not forever, but excuses, justifying himself, even just being flippant or irritated when you bring it up are big warning signs that he hasn't learned from it and will do it again. The only appropriate reaction after doing something like that should be remorse, contrition and shame. Not anger. So yeah. That's my answer. I'd want him sorting out his anger issues with counselling once and for all too, because that's not just going to go away on its own, and as the kids grow they're going to become aware of that, and if he's not going to step up and make sure they never have to see that again, then you need to, for their sake.

I would give an ultimatum, that it was the first - and will be the only time! I wouldn't leave as I think parenting is a tough gig and we all make mistakes and he should be given the opportunity to change and redeem himself.

I would let him know it is not on and not in any way an appropriate way for an adult to manage their emotions, that he needs to do some parenting and anger management classes (which he needs to attend) and if it happens again you will be booting him out the door and having him charged with child assault.

i wouldn't leave or ask him to leave. i don't think classes are particurlarly helpful unless the person is motivated to look at themselves and make changes if necessary. i do think it needs to be addressed for you and your relationship, and for your babies.

i would talk to him, see what's going on, see what he thinks of what happened.

My first was a needy baby, but i was in a whole lot more of 'this is hard work' when #2 came along. DH walked around with earplugs in his ears (to dull the reflux baby screams) when he was around 2 months of age. I don't like it, and am working on it, but there is a lot more yelling in this house since #2 was born. And sometimes it is just because we are at our end and don't know what to do. Sometimes, having the other parent remind us of how we want to parent, and give support and acknowledgement of the difficulty makes all the difference.

I would be concerned about a child being hit across the back of the head, but if it was reflex and the person realised they were wrong (without being told it) my reaction would be different to if they thought the action was justified and wanted to continue doing it.

When your toddler hits or hurts your baby it can be really confronting, cos both of them are your babies but one is hurting the other.

It depends on his response. How does he feel about what he did?

My dh and I find ourselves grabbing toys and shouting at ds ever since dd was born and ds is constantly on top of her, pushing her over, hurting her. We have been struggling with our instincts to protect our baby, and I've come so close to smacking ds. Our once calm and peaceful family has been on the edge. All this has frightened us (I'm worse than dh, because he's not home as often) so I have been seeing a psychologist and am going to attend parenting classes. I feel, justifiably, like the worst mother ever and want to desperately change. I love my children more than anything and would die if dh took them and left me.

Does your dh feel he's done something wrong, or does he think it is OK? If he doesn't care to change then you should consider moving the kids somewhere safe until he realises it's not OK.

But if he knows it was wrong and is riddled with guilt and wants to change, then stand by him and give him the support he needs to find the right parenting program that will teach him the tools he needs to learn how to handle those tricky situations.

I'm with Nai. Set out the clear boundaries of what is ok and what is not ok and what his actions will mean for the harmony of the family. Draw a VERY clear line in the sand on acceptable and safe behaviour.

I have heard of some great and empowering parenting classes about how to manage yourself in intense situations. it is something that is generally done as a couple (as all parenting should be a joint effort if there are two of you in the home ITMS).

It may be worth considering getting in to see someone as a couple too. Sometimes after the birth of a baby there are alot of unsettled emotions that may have triggered deep-seated anxieties, memories etc. See it as an opportunity to clean out the closet and take a positive step forward for the whole family.

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i wouldn't leave or ask him to leave. i don't think classes are particurlarly helpful unless the person is motivated to look at themselves and make changes if necessary. i do think it needs to be addressed for you and your relationship, and for your babies.

i would talk to him, see what's going on, see what he thinks of what happened.

My first was a needy baby, but i was in a whole lot more of 'this is hard work' when #2 came along. DH walked around with earplugs in his ears (to dull the reflux baby screams) when he was around 2 months of age. I don't like it, and am working on it, but there is a lot more yelling in this house since #2 was born. And sometimes it is just because we are at our end and don't know what to do. Sometimes, having the other parent remind us of how we want to parent, and give support and acknowledgement of the difficulty makes all the difference.

I would be concerned about a child being hit across the back of the head, but if it was reflex and the person realised they were wrong (without being told it) my reaction would be different to if they thought the action was justified and wanted to continue doing it.

When your toddler hits or hurts your baby it can be really confronting, cos both of them are your babies but one is hurting the other.

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I agree with the 100%.

Since having DS, a lot has changed in our household. We both have a strong need to protect him so if DD hits him during a tantrum she is punished, we don't her hurting him at all lightly and we have resumed with smacking as a form of punishment as we have found she will just continue to try hit him or even hitting him which is not fair on him at all.

I do think you need to sit down and address this, find out what is going on as obviously if his actions are out of character then there is an underlying issue.

Sounds like you're very distessed about this. :hug: It is very hard when parents are not on the same page.
It is really important that he understands how you feel about this. But equally, perhaps, it's important to find out where he's at and how he's come to this. Maybe he does need help, but perhaps it's something you can figure out together if you talk it through.
I hope you can figure this out

I don't agree with smacking DS. DH doesn't agree with smacking DS either. No physical discipline/punishment is a wonderful principle and we 100% agree with it.

Guess what - due to the way we were raised, it was a major tool in the parenting toolbox. One we choose to ignore most of the time - indeed, one we thought we'd thrown out. Oh gosh, turns out when we're sleep deprived, frustrated, stressed with workload, money troubles, a young child continuing to push all our buttons means we do things we are not happy about (although Liebling has been smacked and apologised to less than a dozen times in his life, which I am happy about given how we would have parented had we not thought about it first).

We talk about stuff as a family, but IMO I wouldn't throw my DH out for smacking DS. I think "wow, I wouldn't have smacked for that" - but then DH has more on his plate than I do atm. I'll talk to DH when DS is in bed and we agree other strategies and that works for us. The new strategies are used. These strategies involve me changing my parenting as well so Liebling isn't confused as to what is and isn't allowed. Most of the problems we have as a family is when I think one thing is OK and DH doesn't.

By all means, parenting/anger management classes. Or maybe ground rules for the toddler, your DH having time at the gym and you babywearing when your DS starts to get tired and "mean" to the baby.

he has asked me to go to parenting classes (123 magic and ppp) with him, so a great step forwards

That is great.
I'm sure you both will work through this :)
These are the kind of things that really test what we are made of. And really you have lovely family.

Firstly :hug:

Secondly, I agree wholeheartedly with what HotI said. Some sage advice there...

Thirdly, good for you both in going to 123 classes. I used that method with DS1 (before I even realised that it was a thing to do and you could take classes). And, good for him talking to you about it.

But... is there something else that is stressing/worrying your DH? If this is out of character (which I'm assuming it is) can he be over-reacting due to some other issues that he doesn't feel he can burden you with. I know when my husband is keeping something from me he goes quiet and withdrawn and will overact (in my opinion) to fairly insignificant things.


As an aside, I thought I'd share two examples from me when I've smacked a toddler.

DS2 got a smack yesterday. He was jumping on the dogs back and we told him to leave her alone. He went back. Took him away. He went back. Dog yelped. DS2 didn't stop when told. DS2 got a smack. DS2 apologised to Lucy (the dog). Did I over-react? Probably (in some people's opinion). But I would rather a smack on the bum from me than a nasty bite from a bullmastiff because she'd been pushed too far.

At DS1's first birthday party I put him down in his cot for a sleep. I found a friend's toddler (probably just over 3) in the room holding a pillow over DS1's head. I smacked him. Case closed. He didn't fess up to his mother when she asked why he was crying and I don't know if he ever did (little turd). But, in my opinion, he deserved it. I'd rather a smack on the bum to a toddler than a smothered baby.

Oh my! that's so scary!
-may I ask why you didn't tell the mum?

sorry-ot

I too would suggest dh is dealing with something if this is out of character for him