I don't know what to do

I have posted bits & pieces from time to time about Evans behaviour.
Well I think I am at breaking point. I am sure the crap night sleep, the impending cold I have cought of Isla & being pregnant (hormones) is making it all seem worse this morning but I just don't know what to do any more, how to handle Evan's outburst.

A little glimpse of our mornings...
I got up & Evan was already sitting up with DH watching him play computer games (what DH does in the mornings before getting ready for work. Evan likes to sit & watch. I came out & said how I went to go get Evan up but it was Glenn in his place. Evan said nothing.
I then came out again asking what he would like for lunch, its canteen day, would you like lasagne? All I got in response was a shake of the head for no & nothing more. didn't reply when I asked what he would like instead, just sat there with a sour look on his face.

So I walked off & said fine, I will just make your lunch then. So I did that & then asked if was going to to catch the bus this morning. Again he said No. Normally when DH starts later it the morning for work, its his "special" thing to take Evan tot he bus stop. I was really wanting him to catch the bus this morning as Isla was up all night (as I) with a cough & was still sleeping, so if I could leave her to sleep I would.

I made him some toast & gave it to him & asked him to eat it then come out & get dressed for school. "whats that?, whats on it? Im not eating that!"
And so the fun really begins. I just walked off &left him to it. He later came out to the living room where I said to get dressed. This boy never gets himself dressed, he can, he just doesn't. Its easier to just do it myself rather then argue every item of clothing. When he wouldn't do it, I started to put his soaks on. He pulled them off. I put them on again & he pulled them off & threw them across the room. I told him he needs to get dressed & to cut it out or he will get a smack. So he starts trying to stare me down. He got a smack (not proud of that). He then still kept on with not getting dressed, kicked & hit me so I pulled him up & said fine you can go to school in your PJ's, there is your school bag, now off you go to get the bus! He yelled at me that I was a stupid thing! So I sent him to his room, well actually dragged him to his room then went off to sulk in my own.

Dh got him to calm down & have some breakfast & eventually get dressed. He also drove him to school, which will make him late for work but could see I wasn't in the mood to deal with him any longer.

I was sitting out here when DH came out & I said that there is something wrong Evan, this behaviour has been ongoing since he was about 3, maybe even younger.
Dh thinks its just that he isn't a morning person & that he is like me. Meaning that both Evan & I butt heads & both fly off the handle at the drop of a hat.

Now ok, I may react badly to most situations, which aggravate the situation but I HAVE tried other approaches. Nothing changes. I don't think its normal for a now 6 yr old to behave the way Evan does. I have seen this behaviour in older kids & kinda laughed it off with the parent saying how much fun it will be if it continues on. The response I usually get is the behaviour I am seeing in their 10 / 11 yr old is a new thing. All I can think is great & I have been getting it for bloody years already!

After Dh got back from dropping him off I said Its more then just him not being a morning person I am concerned that there is more too it & its not fair that DH is dismissing it.
He said well there are people I can talk to about it. Who? Who do I call?
I don't feel comfortable going to his teacher, I don't know if his school even has a counsellor. I don't want to break down in tears in front of someone I don't know. I don't want to admit to a stranger that I can't handle his outbursts & I don't know what to do.

I don't like that I sit here not liking the Evan I have at the moment. I don't like that I can hardly see the keyboard as I type through my blubbering.

I love Evan, of course I love him, but I don't like him at the moment. That sounds so horrible & is so hard to write/say. Maybe its not the right way to describe it but its all I can come up with.

Everything is a battle with him. From the moment he gets up to the moment he falls asleep its a battle over something. Breakfast, getting dressed, getting in the car, out the car. COming home from school it starts the moment he steps out of his class room, what did you buy me, where did you go, have you got something special for me at home, can I go to so n so's house, can they come over to ours.
All that before I even start the car! Get home & its I want this, I want that.
Dinner time is out the window every night, I hate dinner time the most I think. He wont eat anything I make unless its chips.
Getting in the bath, getting out the bath.

He wont got to sleep without one of us with im (DH at the moment) he doesn't fall asleep any earlier then 9.30 regardless of how early the bed time slot is.

Every moment of pretty much every day there is an argument about doing something, getting something done.

I just don't know what to do any more. Glenn & Isla don't carry on like Evan so it can't all just be my parenting.... can it?

Hugs FJ.

Sounds like our place 2-3 days a week.

DD can just be a little B**** when she wants to be. And for absolutely no reason, just "because". Usually its when she has been at her fathers for a weekend and hasnt yet been de-programmed, or if she has had a bit of a late night.

I think its all just normal - I know it can drive you absolutely up the wall but i am sure its their way of finding their boundaries.

I dont have any tips- just wanted to let you know you arent alone

:hug: Sounds just like my eldest.. All I did this morning was yell at him.. Get dressed clean your teeth \bla bla bla.. I even smacked him on his bottom as I had had enough...

that seemed to get his butt moving.. Dh just sat there.. He had just finished night shift but still you don't stop being parent just because you are tired from work (imo)

Maybe one morning if possible.. Say to him once only.. Time to get dressed and lay his clothes out on his bed.. Serve his breakfast and say it is here lets go eat.. Yo get dressed eat ect.. and when it is time to go he goes to school as is.. If he isn't dressed then so be it..

the threat of doing this to Ethan has been enough to get him moving..

I sometimes wonder if he gets jealous of his siblings not having to get up dressed and get out the door by a certain time

Another thing that irks me is our Dh's.. Mine likes to watch Tv in the mornings.. And thats fine but sometimes you need to turn it off to make the kids do things..

Like this mornin I didn't want it on but Dh did and of course as soon as he turned it on the kids turned into zombies.. Maybe you can get your Dh to leave the computer be in the mornings..

hope I am not over stepping the line here but instead of playing on the computer he should be up helping you.. I know I get very cranky when my Dh just sits there.. usually if he is home in the morning he has either just finished night shift or is on days off.. Otherwise he is gone long before the kids wake..

Also my other kids don't behave like my eldest either.. I have a feeling we have a similar age gap between our kids?? My eldest was 4 when we had our 2nd.. or is there only 2 years and a bit between your eldest and 2nd.. (maths is out of my head this morning lol)

Sorry for my ramble but I do understand your frustrations...

There is 2 years between all of mine. I don't mind DH being ont he computer. Its really his oonly "me" time. He usually gets up about 6 am & sits here till he has to start getting ready which is either before we all get up or when Evan has to get ready also.

The TV is a bit of an issue. I turn it off if it becomes too much of a distraction. Most mornings its just me getting them all ready as DH leaves before they get up.

We had issues about him catching the bus home as it takes 40 minutes when pickin ghim takes 10. But I thought it may help with his afternoon behaviour to let him have that extra time with is mates. You see I don't mind him goin gover or having friends over but other parents around here just aren't into it. Which is fair enough, they have older kids who have homework etc, Its not like its just across the road either. So I thought letting him catch the bus with his friends would help, It last about a fortnight before he said tis long & doesn't want to catch it. So thats out the window. Mornings he will catch now & then as it drops them at the school before doign the main part of the run.

I am feeling a little better now, the homrones have settled down obviously...

Its not admitting defeat to ask for help - its saying "I need more tools to handle this issue, so what have you got for me?" Its hard when you have a stubborn child - my second is like that (not to the same point that Evan is, but we butt heads ALOT) and you just have to stay one step ahead of them. Mine is worse if she doesn't get enough sleep at night, so that's one thing I wont negotiate on at night. Also in the morning the TV does not go on at all till I have put them on the bus. I don't have much that I can offer to help you, because our kids are slightly different so what works for me may not for you. I don't think that him not being a morning person is part of it - he can get himself up to watch his Dad play games. Maybe while he is watching he be getting dressed then. He seems to really love his Dad, so maybe if you had all his clothes out the night before it would be easy for you DH to give them to him and ask him to put them on while he is watching him?

I don't have kids this age and haven't been through it (yet, though I think I'm in for some challenging times already!), so I don't speak from experience.
But I agree with Nic. Say it once if he doesn't do it, he goes to school in his pj's, he goes hungry, he doesn't get the pay-off for what ever it is he's doing. How embarrasing to get to school in your pj's! I bet he'd only do it once. Then he'd do what is asked of him when you ask.
I also agreeon the no computer in the morning, or at least turn it off at what ever time will give you enough time to feed him and get him ready for school.
Tell him the new routine and be specific and explicit. The try to really stick to it. Like at 7.00 the computer goes off and mum will get you what you want for breakfast, you will eat it, then brush your
teeth and hair, pack your bag, get dressed and we'll go to school. If you don't you will go to school in your pj's/hungry blah, blah...
It's hard with kids who are unreasonable. I have one, but she's a toddler, so some unreasonableness is expected, LOL. A six yr old understands to some degree rules and expectations. If you think he needs it, I would go to the school councellor, don't be embarrassed. That's what they are there for, to listen to your trials with your children, and they'd have other resources for you to use in your area. Or maybe go to your gp if you'd prefer.Triple P have some good resources too, maybe look them up.
Good luck you sound like you're at the end of your tether. :hug:

I mainly just wanted to say have you tried vicks on the feet for the cough?? Apparently it works very, very well to stop a night time cough!
:hug:
Also if this kind of behaviour has been going on since he was 3 I would probably be getting him assessed for something...I don't know what :redface: Maybe you could go to your GP about it and see what they say? (there are some kids who genuinely have ADD and who really benefit from medication) Does he only do it at home? Is he a saint everywhere else? If yes then IMO you have a boundary issue, he knows you will get angry if he does or doesn't do....... he's got you. If no go see the GP and see who they suggest to see.
HTH
(I grew up in a foster family who dealt with a lot of 'problem' kids)

No his behaviour extends outside of the house. But its more with me then DH, but then that could be because he is more with me then DH as DH works. But Its not limited to the house or just me thats for sure.

I don't think taking him to school in his PJs would do much as he would happily throw a massive tantrum in front of his school. He has in the past. Makes me feel so small when he carries on like he does in front of the other parents at the school. Im sure im just imagining it but it feels like they all look at me as some hopeless mum who is pregnant again & can't handle the kid she has.

If I went to the GP would I take him with me? or just go & talk on my own( well without him, im never on my own these days).

I worry that DH dismisses the behaviour as nothing more then just him not being a morning person,, being like me etc because his parents are the kind to sweep things under the rug, out of sight out of mind. I mean DH grew up suffering with anxiety attacks (his earliest memory of one was when he was 8) & nothing being said or done to help him, when he was in his early 20's he went to a Dr who helped him see what was wrong & when he told his parents it came out that his dad is that same, his uncles, grandfather etc all the same. Its a known problem in his family yet NO one talks about it or at least did until DH spoke up & said I have an anxiety disorder.

We do think that Evan is showing signs of suffering anxiety as well & DH is helping him with that. But Again I wonder if DH is unknowingly dismissing it because thats how it was delt with when he was little.

It surprises me a little that DH is so casual about it. Maybe because he doesn't see the every day outbursts & behaviour that I do? Maybe its because he has been programmed that everything is "normal" if you say it is.

I don't want Evan on medications, if it came to something like that then I would look at controlling it with diet, but again that would be hard as the kid doesn't bloody eat with out a fight.

I appreciate the suggestions about DH & the computer games in the mornings but its really not part of the issue as DH is often up & gone by the time Evan gets up. Its only a rare thing that Evan wakes while DH is still on the PC or even home. Its only 1 or 2 mornings a week that DH is home before Evan goes to school that he can take him to the bus.

LOL would it be bad to have Evan sleep in his school clothes? LOL save a lot of hassle in the mornings thats for sure!

I might build up the courage to talk to his teacher.

I think it would be a good idea to talk to others who spend time with him, like his teacher. There could be underlying problems. There is no need to feel embarrassed or self concious. Everyone has troubles with things and needs help at times.
Maybe it would be good to talk to the gp with your DH if you can. And without Evan, or if you can swing it, any kids.
Being pg certainly wouldn't help with your emotions to deal with his emotions too. I know how hard it is to deal with an irate child and being hormonal. There has been many a time I have had to walk away from DD and ignore whatever she's doing just so I don't go mental at her. And she's only 15mths!

hey FJ,

Teleah is very similar to Evan behaviour wise.

my tips are,

even though Glenn and Isla behave, no TV turned on at all in the mornig til everyone is ready.

If you say you will go to school in your pjs, follow through (take a bag with his day clothes with you ) but do it.

Diet control is a massive key... start out trying to cut out as much sugar and food colourings as possible makes a huge difference


And def discuss any worries with your family GP


good luck and hugs

I'd go to your GP and ask for a referral to see a childrens psychologist.

It wont hurt to get him assessed at all. They may say he is fine or has issues with some things.
You will know where you stand and you will have someone else that is able to explain to your DH that it isn't just because he is not a morning person, that he behaves the way he does, for a reason, he may not be able to help it.
Going to get him assessed isn't going to hurt him at all and may give you the piece of mind you need as well as some tools to deal with his behaviour.

Good Luck

..Laura

Got a minute or so while the eggs cook...

I've been through a bit of this when my DD was 6. I returned to study and the mornings became a bit more hectic. At that point DH drove her to school and they were always locking horns about being late. One thing I do remember (she is 13yo now) is that she largely dressed herself. I would brush her hair and do the final touches. Routine is the best solution to school mornings... it really helps is everything is done in the same order at the same time... kids are like horses (those holiday farm trail ride ones) and function best when things are predictable. I recall making a very simple written list and sticking it on her bedroom wall at her height:

7am Get Up
7.05 Come out for breakfast
7.20 pack bag
7.25 brush teeth
7.30 Get dressed

They had to leave at about 7.45 to be at my DD's school at 8am (she went into Before Care).

She had a digital clock in her bedroom. It was at about this age that she could read well enough to know what the list said... at first I had to help her.

Since then I have been doing less and less for her. As my study commitments increased i parented in a way that left her to her own devices in the mornings... by 7 she was making her own breakfast and by about 8 she was making her own lunch. By 9 I was doing nothing except making sure her uniform and shoes were clean and signing forms and checking homework. By 10 she was walking to school by herself. Personally think most kids are capable of this process.

Just a suggestion but maybe step back and do as little as possible. At the moment the struggle over putting on socks is unnecessary. Who puts his socks on at school when they need to remove their shoes? I bet his teacher doesn't! ;)

I'm not saying you are parenting poorly. Only you know what is necessary for your child. Most children will try to manipulate their parents into doing as much as they can for them. it's a form of negative attention seeking behaviour. What you could try is "catching him being good". make him prefer good attention. Ignore the bad as much as possible. If he does one thing each morning without having to be told them praise him for it... if he eats his toast without argument say "that's great, you've eaten your toast would you like a milkshake?' spring a few treats in there so he tries doing the right thing more often. But he can't demand treats... say they only happen when he does the right thing without you getting cross. And they don't always happen, just sometimes....

Accept that nearly ALL parents find themselves at their wits end like you do :hug:

better go get the eggs before they boil dry!!!

I am going through EXACTLY the same thing with my 6 year old.
The day starts with her yelling that she's too tired to get up. 99% of the time I say 'well you should've gone to sleep earlier'.
Then I go & make her brekky.
After she has eaten & needs to get dressed she starts wit the 'I'm sick & Mrs Meers said I'm not allowed to go to school when I'm sick. After a while of pointing out why she's not sick there is about 20 minutes of me saying 'hurry up or your going to school in your undies'.
Eventually we get there.
After school is just as bad. Bedtimes were hell, but getting better.
I wish weekends would disappear. Especially when its too cold to send them out side.
I know exactly how you are feeling. I feel exactly the same. I love her & would still protect her with my life, but its really hard to like her.
We are seeing a child psycologist. Its helped the bed times get better, but thats it. She still trashes her room every weekend playing.
We have a deal with bed times. If she goes to bed, no arguments at 8pm, she can go to bed when she likes on weekends.
It's the only way it works for us.
Is he having any problems ay school? Socially or acidemically? They could be contributing.
Are there any problems at all in the family? Things that happened years ago could be affecting him.
My MCHN was the one who I talked to & the one who organised the psycologist for me.
I hope it gets better for both of us soon.

FJ, I would say start by being firm & making a NO TV/ Computer policy before school, make him sit up at the table with the family to have breakfast 7 if he chooses not to, he gets NOTHING, but MUST get dressed, brush his teeth, whatever other things have to happen before school, if he doesnt...
Dont ask, remind or nag him etc... These should be what he does everymorning before school, he should know the routine... Then without clashing or butting heads when it's time to head to school (if that means, bus, driving, walking or whatever make sure he knows if he needs to be ready earlier etc) Then head off to school, if he has had no breakfast & still in PJ's it's not your fault, its' his MAKE HIM ACCOUNTABLE!!

He will hate the embarassment & will start getting ready!!!

I dont think your DH on puter helps, but I understand that it's his time, but I'd make him aware of thr ules & that it's MORE helpful fo him to not be on it!???

BTW - Our tv is never on in the mornings.

Our routine before school
7.30 wake up, have brekky
7.55 get dressed - yes breakfast takes a good 20 - 30 minutes.
8.10 do hair, clean teeth, pack bag in that order.
Out the door for the bus by 8.25.

I know this isn't practical but often children are MUCH better behaved if a member of the extended family pulls them into line. I don't have the best relationship with my mother but I know that when she is staying with us that my kids don't act up quite as bad. Gaurenteed if a grandparent was sitting at the table having a cuppa my 6yo DD would have more likely to do the right thing... all it would take would be for Nana or granDad to say "Listen to what your mother is saying" for them to comply. Sadly this is where the modern nuclear family really suffers... kids are just tuning out... mum's voice just becomes a background hum... too constant... too predictable... broken record mum. Sometimes doing something out of "left field" can work to keep their attention. Say things a bit differently... whisper instead of shout... say something ridiculous "And when you have finished brushig your teeth go and check if there is an emu in the backyard". Say it dead pan. It's a common teacher strategy ;)

I like that idea Bath!
& I agree about the extended family. DD1 is definetely better at my mums place. They live 10 hours drive away though. :( DH is considering us moving back up there. He's just starting to get how hard it is for me with no family support at all.

Hey FJ :hug:

It sounds like you're really trying and doing a great job, so don't doubt yourself.
I'm not a parent (yet) however to me, it sounds like perhaps he's just wanting attention unnecessarily... perhaps the new baby on the way is creating some anxiety for him? He feels perhaps once again he'll be replaced by another baby? Sometimes older siblings have these feelings anyway i've heard.... my sister (she is the eldest) was the most trouble for Mum and Dad aswell. Mum thinks its cos she wanted all the attention on her and when me and my younger sister came into the picture she found it harder kwim??
May not be that but just a suggestion. :dunno:

Can you and Evan spend some quality time together just the two of you? Go to a park near you and just play on the swings etc together without the distraction of the other kids around? Would that help? Allocate 'Mum & Evan' time once a week even just for 1hr. When DH gets home from work so he can look after the kids?

Hope he calms down soon for you....maybe seeing the teacher might help.... good luck hun.