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Just wondering, after reading LimeSlice's post about EDDs, how many people would lie about their EDD?
By that I mean, if you knew when your LMP was, and knew what your 40 week EDD would be... would you lie and tell them you were due a week later? To save the hassle of inductions etc when you hit smack on 40 weeks?
What would be the risks of saying you are due later? Do you think you'd get the "oh you're big for x weeks" and push for inductions anyway?
Just wondering...
No I never would, I think its foolish to possibly endanger your baby but that is just me, I like my obs and I felt completely comfortable with him. I guess if i didn't feel confident about my care providers I might.
No way, just in case it endangered my bub some how. I would just try to be strong and refuse any kind of induction from the begining. I would just be honest with them. I think that's betterthan lying to get what you want!
no way as placentas dont keep functioning forever. If you lie and fo to full term on false edd and they let you go 2 weeks over you are really 3 weeks over and endangering babies life. If you went into labour before edd management of prem labour and drugs they give to stop labour or help babies lungs you would be having unnessary.
Silly and irreponsible for people to do that, if you are not 110% comfortable that care provider will do best thing for you then you need to seek alternative care.
No way. But I do feel very comfortable with my care provider, and trust him. What if the baby comes early, and has problems? Do you then fess up that you've lied all along? And what if you're someone who chooses to have scans, and they all show a different date to what you're saying? I know scans are not always correct, but I used to have long cycles, and I knew when I conceived. My Ob was happy to use my EDD, rather than working it from my LMP. And all four ultrasounds I had were within one day of the EDD I predicted.
So no, absolutely not. I think it would be more important to find a care provider you trust, than to start lying to one you don't.
I think if you have to lie - you need a new care provider. It is our responsibility to seek out a care provider who has values similar to our own. If it's important to you not to be hassled about due dates - you need to find a health care provider that has a similar approach.
It is NEVER okay to lie about your health to someone you are entrusting your health to. It is setting up a really negative energy around the birth.
There are care providers and models of care for everyone out there - and as a health care consumer it is our responsibility to find the right one.
I think that would be totally irrisponsable and selfish! How could you possible endanger the life of your unborn child!
Wouldnt people become unstuck anyway due to u/s datings???
:yeahthat::
Could not agree more.
Hmmm interesting. It was just a thought that lead from the other post saying how your due date is later than you think, I was just wondering how many people would say that that date is their due date IYKWIM?
Feeb, I think the point of the article Limeslice posted was that the idea of the pregnancy being complete, and therefore the placenta beginning to deteriorate is a myth. That a normal pregnancy does actually last 41 + weeks.:
Having said that, I agree with Flowerchild. If you can't trust your care provider to practice in accordance with modern evidence, even at your request, then you are better off finding a new case provider than lying. If that is not possible, them arm yourself with the knowledge and the evidence and stand your ground. But I think it's important to be honest with your provider.
I Cant get this outof my head now lol.
If I would have lied about M's due date and said it was later I would have ended up having a stillborn..I had to push enough to get him an early c/s as it was...and his placenta was calcified very badly
I have seen many placentas of prem babies or babies at term with pale, calcified, fatty placentas not all do last.:
Do we get to the point of saying you are not overdue enought keep going placenta will be ok and then end up with a stillborn?
As maz pointed out mother intuition that things are not right is very very important.
I wouldn't - you have nothing to gain and everything to loose. I think you would cop the 'big for dates' crappola and have to deal with that and it would defeat the purpose of the lie in the first place. I don't buy into the placenta thing, yep they do fail but I trust that the baby and your body knows what they are doing and labour will start. That's why you have women going past 42 weeks and birthing healthy and robust babies. The 'date' is only a mindset. Like Deb said, if you feel you have to do that, you're not in a healthy relationship with your care provider and I think it shows no respect to them that you would rather lie to them then tell the truth and work through any issues. If anything did happen it makes their job so much harder to treat both yourself or your baby - treatment decisions could be based on the fetal age of the baby and if they are earlier or later than what they think it is, then it can complicate things and I couldn't live with that on my conscience.
I wouldn't.
I have a great health provider though who listens to me. This time around I am due Sept 15-16 according to the dating scans etc... but I feel like I am due Sept 23 going by the times that I know I O'd and by when we DTD. My midwife agrees with my dates although we need to go by the scan dates anyway... but if I do go over, it isn't like it's not expected.
:hug: for all of those that had placental issues - I understand the fears there - when Imogen was born her placenta was an absolute mess - it was infarcted in multiple places and due to her lack of detectable movement and it's hideous state she had not long to go before it was too late... So I do get that placentas don't always last... :hug:
In a healthy mama, with growth = dates (obviously the correct EDD is needed here!) the "normal" gestation is 37-42 weeks + or minus a week! If you are from a scandanavian country or have this origin you statistically will gestate up to 2 weeks longer than your sisters from other parts. (I am one of those freaky folk who looove interesting stats! :redface:)
Movement, fetal growth an some pathology can help track how that placenta is functioning. In a well Mama with the aforementioned going well it is highly likely that your placenta is motoring along fine. This is why that recent evidence suggests that women should be closely watched post dates but not necessarily induced due to the very large variation in "normal"...
Leasha - the key to a fabulous birthing experience is to engage a practitioner that you trust, who can educate you, who you can learn from. You are having a baby - the relationship needs to be very very pure for the best outcome.
Misleading a care provider is disaster - you need a clear relationship. There are fabulous models of care and practitioners who trust in birth, women's bodies and marry this with awesome knowledge and professionalism...
If you need some names - I'd gladly steer you in the direction of homebirth midwife or obstetrician who would honour your values in the Sunshine Coast area... :hug:
I wouldn't lie, but my own Ob told me he would go by the date that allowed me to go longest over (it was only a week) and interestingly DS was born the day before the longest EDD. He would have let me go 42 weeks but with monitoring from 40 weeks. So I don't think I would have been in any danger.
But I agree if one feels they need to lie, then IMO they shouldn't be with that carer. I would never allow myself to be pressured into an induction though, so maybe I feel more secure because of that?
I agree, but given that you are seeing these on premature or term babies, then it suggests that the problem is with the placenta, not with an overdue pregnancy. In particular with prem babies, knowing the EDD would have made little to no difference, because their placenta had started to break down before they even reached it, whether you called it 40 weeks or 41 weeks.:
No, I don't think we should, but once more, what you are talking about isn't really related to EDDs. Detecting an early placental breakdown comes down to good antenatal care and assessment, and that should be happening no matter whether you are 20, 30, 40, or 40+ weeks.:
Mittendorf's Rule is based on evidence and is well known (although sadly not universally accepted) to provide a much better estimate of EDD and a better yardstick to base decisions around induction, etc. than Naegele's rule does.
I agree wholeheartedly.:
Couldn't agree more. With a history of delivering 10 days post dates, one of the reasons I am with my ob and not the midwifery clinic at the hospital is his views on induction.:
I think if you have to lie - you need a new care provider. It is our responsibility to seek out a care provider who has values similar to our own.
I wouldn't lie about my EDD. This time around having no idea about our dates, I've found it doesn't matter, they'll find an EDD to work with anyway.
I felt I had to fight to get my GP to believe me when I said I knew my EDD - he went from LMP but that put me due early August as I have long cycles due to PCOS. I knew when I had ovulated as I had been charting, temping etc but they wouldn't believe it - they go from LMP. I requested a dating scan and what would you know it came back as one day after my predicted EDD. My obs never questioned me as he knew I had PCOS (he was managing it) and with my history had a chuckle at the EDD my GP gave - he said a date from LMP for me would have caused all sorts of arguements about being overdue when bub would not have been anywhere near finished baking.
I have spoken to my Obs and he has said we will talk about it more later but he is happy for me to go over the EDD - not sure by how much just yet - provided that there are no apparent risk factors etc.
For me lying was never an option - I was truthful to get them to believe me that I knew my cycle
I have to ask now as we are evolving into it (well sort of) is an u/s able to pick up calcifications and complications other then blood flow to it?
Makes one's mind boggle to doesnt it..........what the hell did we do in the 'old days' :think: before technology
Maz, thank god for technology thats all I can say.
With my DD I wasnt 100% on my dates, but I did have a fair idea when my LMP etc was, so I figured I would be due Sept 20. However the dating scan came up 6 Oct as my due date. I knew deep down this was wrong, I knew that date wasnt possible. However I went with the flow. A scan further down the track picked up that yes my edd was more around 22 Sept, however for some reason my doc still wanted to run with 6 Oct. I was so worried about this knowing that placentas wear out, so I changed doctors at 30 weeks & she went by 22 Sept & told my hospital to change all my dates. DD was born 5 days late & she was a porky bess. So I knew then that I was right on my dates. I know its not a huge diff between 22nd Sept & 6th Oct but it could have just been enough iykwim? Go with your instinct ladies.
Maz it will show up calcification on the u/s as white spots I think? It does show up on it. and depending on the quality of the u/s machine, they can do a view of the blood flow through the heart and the umbilical cord. I guess back then you just had to take that chance that everything would be alright. I think it's a tough call though to refuse medical care during pg like some women do - you really need to have a strong resolve to be able to deal with any consequences of not having a scan or care. I don't begrudge any woman the right to refuse care or a scan if she wants to do that, but I know I could never live with the guilt of having something happen if it could have been remedied by a simple u/s. Even up to 25 years ago women were only having scans done if there was cause for concern or if you were a high risk pg. I think out of all of us Mum only had 1 scan for 5 pg's - and that was only done because she had some pretty heavy bleeding at 7mths with her 3rd pg. The first u/s machines were so rudimentary that they wouldn't have picked up much anyway.
When I had Alister I made a point of getting them to show me the placenta in detail as I had never really seen it with the first three and I knew it was my last chance. There were a few gritty areas in it, which was possibly due more to the sheer size of him, as he was only 4 days past dates (and I knew exactly when I o'd and conceived him). I don't know what that would have meant if I had of gone further past that date though. I have some pics of his placenta that I might post later, but I don't think they show the gritty areas all that well.
:
I think a lot more mummas and bubbas didn't make it :(
I think if you're thinking of lying about your EDD, maybe you need to find a care provider you trust ...:
Maz - in answer to your placenta question... It is difficult to predict the state of a placenta by u/s alone. The best predictor of placental health is growth. Dopplers can be done to show blood flow - another good predictor. PAPP-A being low is also a possible predictor of poor placental health. Movements that a strong, forceful and regular are one of the best and non tech methods too!
Whilst my situation is different - just for some awareness.... As you know I was hospitalised at 26+4 weeks with an autoimmune response. I was transpported to a tertiary hospital. I was u/s frequently. Imogen's movements during her last 3 days inutero were undetectable to the point that I really thought she was dead. I had convinced myself she was gone. No movements in more than 24 hours.
Anyway - dopplers had been fine and the placenta looked fine. When she was born she was significantly smaller than u/s predicted and the placenta literally fell into threads. The surgeon showed me - knowing I was a nurse... No u/s had detected the dreadful state of my placenta. Immy was on borrowed time.
Placentas can show up some calcification and still be fine - placnta s are a large organ and adept at sustaining life. U/s though is a poor predictor of placental health (though of course helpful) - from the words of the top dog in Fetal Med at RBWH
T
I wouldn't lie about my EDD. I have considered lying about my LMP though, but didn't in the end. I have had to chart to fall pg everytime because my cycles are so irregular and as this is my third baby, I know the drill and the stunned looks I get from medical professionals that my LMP could be that far out from my dating scan. In some ways, I think it would be easier to lie about my LMP and avoid the fuss, lecture and concern on behalf of the medical profession that should know that LMPs are not ALWAYS 28 days precisely, especially when the woman is breastfeeding. Argh! Anyway, vent over . . .
As for lying about EDD, if your baby is small for dates and you lie and say that your EDD is a week later, it will take them a lot longer to pick up that baby is not growing the way s/he should - not worth the risk in my opinion. Probably better to plough through having to explain yourself and your situation over and over again with the truth than having to fight your way out of a lie when the time comes.
Interesting thread though ;)
I haven't lied to my doctor or the hospital about my dates but I have insisted that they use my own EDD instead of my LMP date. I have long cycles and I don't O until day 21, which makes my EDD and the date going by my LMP a week apart.
My doctor insisted on using my LMP date but my first dating scan showed an edd of 16 July (which is my date). However my 12wk scan gave me a edd of 10 July (my lmp date) and then the 20wk scan suggested that my edd was 16 July.
I took all these states to my midwife and she agreed that my EDD would be closer to the 16th of July. She has been monitoring my fundal height and I always seem to be right for dates going by my edd.
I really want to avoid induction so I felt it necessary to insist on using the later EDD
Personally I would not lie about my EDD.
At my first appointment the MW put be a few days further back, (based on one cycle that went a couple fo days longer than normal. But when I had the dating scan, it went back to the date based on my LMP.
Having had a prem first time round and having a 50% chance it will happen again there would be no way I would consider lying about dates. Due to fast pregressing labour (7-8cm by the time I got to hosy), it was too late for steroids for bubs to develop her lungs prior to delivery. If it happens again and we can get there quick enough to stop labour progressing I would be much happier for bubs to have received the steroids than not IYKWIM.
It may also change the course of care for bubs when delivered.
Actually if you look at actual figures and don't sucumb to scaremongering you find that the vast majority of stillbirths occur between 38-40 weeks gestation (partially because once you hit the 41 week mark you are subject to a lot of monitoring unless you refuse).:
I have seen many placentas of prem babies or babies at term with pale, calcified, fatty placentas not all do last.
Do we get to the point of saying you are not overdue enought keep going placenta will be ok and then end up with a stillborn?
Should we attempt to avoid those by inducing early?
As for whether I would lie. No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be with a care-provider that didn't share my views on pregnancy and birth to begin with.
FC - honey thank you so much for sharing that info with us......im totally blown away :o, a placenta falling into threads..OMG
I know we were u/s to check blood flow ( which was very slow at the time) but that was I was fobbed off and told to wait until my scheduled c/s date.
Sorry to go off track....
Ive been reading peoples post's in here. Its so good to see that woman are taking a stand and listening to their inner mum ;) before their babies are actually born
I wouldn't lie but having said that, I deliverred a baby at "37 weeks" who was most definitely a little bit prem and i delivered my daughter at "43 weeks" who was most certainly not post dates so i would keep in mind that for me personally a 40 week pregnancy doesn't seem to work.
Yu know leash, most independand midwives will not pressure you once you hit your edd ;)
I'm in a similar position to TK199.
With PCOS and long cycles my EDD based on the dating scan is a whole two weeks later than if I went on my LMP. I'm so glad I had the dating scan cos otherwise I'd be faced with inducing and 'undercooked' baby :(
How many women have long cycles for whatever reason anyway? They'll all be going 'past due' and facing unecessary inductions. They really should scrap the 28-day LMP method and replace it with you usual cycle length and/or dating scan (I know that's not entirely accurate also but a helluva a lot better than the current method!)