Those who consider homebirth: Would you go underground?

I wanted to put this poll up to those who have had a homebirth or want a homebirth, if the proposed laws are passed and homebirth is illegal, would you still try to find a way to birth at home, even if t's illegal?

Also:

If you are from Australia and would go underground to birth should homebirth become illegal, could you please email me at my first name, @bellybelly.com.au with your comments and thoughts on this - it will remain anonymous if you wish or just first name (make sure you let me know). I want to try and get a media release going - we need to attack this on every level, and we need to let them know that we will do everything to find a way to birth at home, to have our choice honoured. Being one of the biggest independent family sites in Australia as well as being considered "mainstream" I think this could send a powerful message.

I have birthed all of my four beautiful children at home, and am devastated with the decision made by the government this past week. The ignorance and fear surrounding homebirth defies belief!

I voted for consider...

My stance on the new law is so much more about choice than homebirth.

As much as I want one - my last hospital birth was not traumatic, it was just the kind of birth where I may as well have been at home... and I wanted to for further births so it was about my family. I didn't need to take up room in a hospital and I think it's horrendous that a father can't stay with his newborn child as well.

Anyway, aside that - I would consider because I don't know if I would have the determination to go underground. Maybe if I had even minimal birth trauma it would more highly influence me.

I am impressed by any woman's dedication to take homebirth underground if that is what they so deeply desire. Good on you.

I have thought a lot about birthing my next baby at home, my first 3 were in hospital and 2 were ones I would rather forget.
If it is made illegal I would have no choice but to birth in hopspital. I wouldn't and couldn't birth at home without a midwife and risk my childs life. Where to birth is a choice we SHOULD have...

I wrote i would consider....why well its very hard. I have to take into consideration my DH feelings on freebirth.... As our last homebirth turned into an ooops freebirth which did scare him with the responsibility of it all....

My first 2 hospital births were perfect hospital births! But IT SCARES the living daylights having the thought to have to go back to one. We have moved and the intervention rate is SO high at our local hospital! like 70% c/s, ahhhhhhh

I would 100% birth at home if it was illegal IF there was a midwife willing to be there! But that wasnt an option on the poll.

For me, I chose consider... And there'd be a heck of a lot to consider... I wouldn't freebirth, i would have to have someone qualified there, so I guess it would come down to that... but then I would also feel a huge sense of responsibility to the midwife... if we had to transfer to a hospital, the midwife would be outed, and that would play on my mind and cause so much guilt I think... I dunno...

I chose consider, because I would, but ultimately i think I'd end up in a hospital, because so many maybes, mostly at the midwife getting in trouble.

If I couldn't have a homebirth I'd go to hospital with a BAZILLION doulas around me bearing arms against the hospital staff LOL!

we were discussing this last night, I'm going to be in my 40s when I give birth for the first time, so I am a little bit scared about risks etc. I'd love to be able to give birth in a totally natural environment, where I felt relaxed, calm and surrounded by loved ones.

i voted consider it.
would have homebirthed this time, but the cost is what held us back, which im now kicking myself about because now i may never get the opportunity.
my hospital birth with DD was a very very relaxed one compaired to some of the stories ive heard on bb. there was no intervention and i was told to follow my bodies lead, no directed pushing, which i believe helped my walk away without even a paper cut.
i know that this most likely has alot to do with the beautiful midwife i got on the night and if it had of been another it could be a completely different story.
rambling sorry, but just wanted to let u know that even tho i love the idea of homebirthing, sometimes hospital births arent that bad

I want to have my next baby at home. I wanted my DD to be born at home, but health issues made this impossible.

If we take away the right and the legality to birth at home, more women will have unassisted births, which in turn may increase the mortality and complication rate, therefore, making all the bigwigs who want to abolish it happy.

We NEED to stop this insane pressure to make it illegal NOW!

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My stance on the new law is so much more about choice than homebirth.

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I am the same - my stance on the new laws is more about people having the option and the choice rather than the actual homebirth (if that makes sense at all)

I am not sure that I would homebirth but I want to have the choice to do that if I decide to at the time.

As i understand it, the laws won't make it illegal to birth at home, they will just make it illegal to have the support of a midwife to birth at home.

If you want to birth at home (without the support of a midwife) you don't need to go underground, you just don't go to hospital and have your baby at home.

If you want to birth at home with the support of a midwife, you need to find a midwife who is prepared to go 'underground', ie to assist you without legal backing.

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If you want to birth at home with the support of a midwife, you need to find a midwife who is prepared to go 'underground', ie to assist you without legal backing

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I think thats the point of the question - going 'underground' by finding a midwife who'll support you.
I'm not sure there are too many woman willing to freebirth!

Freebirth is just a new term. Homebirth did not use to require a health care provider to be there.

I think using correct terminology is important. Giving birth at home is not becoming illegal, just the health care providers are no longer being covered to assist women to do this.

I am really against the laws that they want to bring in. But also don't want people who would like to freebirth believe that what they are doing is potentially to become illegal

I will PM cos don't want to go off topic here.

After my last hospital birth I just couldn't face it again. Hospital is just not an option for me, even though it was modelled as a birth centre. I will birth at home no matter what, if the need arose I would call an ambulance to assist me towards the end of labour.

I am not 100% sure how one goes underground properly in the current system. I mean, you need the forms and thus need to present at a hospital to get them one way or another. So obviously you'd be going in saying you freebirthed or accidental home birthed. Just would be fair obvious you are telling porkies I guess.

I would go to a hospital. As much as I hate the environment, I would not ask anyone to put their career - and possibly freedom - on the line for me.

free birthing is birthing without any professionals, no MW or doctors, a lot of freebirthers also don't have any medical checkups during pregnancy.

Homebirthing is birthing at home with a midwife or doula.

Or at least that is what I thought???

By making it illegal to practice homebirth without insurance (the midwife) and no one will insure them, thus making it illegal to homebirth.

A homebirth with a doula is also a freebirth because doulas are just a support person and aren't responsible for any of the medical aspects of childbirth.

ahh ok cool :) I thought they were training MW's lol

Shows what I know (or don't :P)

Hi,

I think I am past childbearing....but should I be so lucky I will find a way to birth at home. It's my right. I know I will find a midwife to be with me, law or no law. I am sick at the though my daughters will have to give birth in a hospital. And sick to death for fighting for my right for a normal birthing experience.

skybie: i liked your ticker so much I had to get the same for myself, I hope you don't mind!

I would really prefer homebirth (and waterbirth too).

BUT, what I've read is that the midwives charge thousands to do a homebirth, and being in a rural area too, it seems out of my reach for that reason. I've heard of women using the baby bonus to pay for the midwife, but we need that money to get us through the early months as I'll have to have a few weeks off work, and once I'm back at work, reduce my hours to outside of my partner's hours till our baby is old enough for the local childcare.

I'm also a first time mother, which makes the docs say I can only birth at a bigger hospital, b/c first-timers are high-risk already without doing anything! Plus I'm positive for anti-cardiolipin antibodies too, with a history of finding it difficult to fall pregnant, and one possible miscarriage as a teenager, never confirmed. So they tell me I've absolutely no chance at all of even the bigger hospital 60km away, (forget the local one) and I have to go over 100km and go to major hospital like Bendigo, Ballarat, Horsham. So there's no way in hell that I'd be able to be allowed to have a homebirth.

But.....

If birth comes on really quickly at home, and you have to accidentally birth, with ambulance called at the last minute, what would they do? Prosecute you? Some babies do not even last the ambulance trip, they arrive on the side of the road!

On the same philosophy, water birth seems still frowned upon by the hospitals, you can labour in the pool, but you must get out to birth. If you don't they pull the plug! You have to sit on the plug to prevent this! They don't like you to do it, but what do they do afterwards, ban you from having a pool anymore? Too late, baby is already here.

Yes I would go underground, providing I could afford the midwife, as things get more expensive when they become illegal due to the risk.

slightly off topic for one second...

phynna, just thought I would clarify that first time mums are not automatically high risk... there many be other factors that may make a first timer high risk but it simply being her first child does not automatically mean she is high risk

Back on topic...

thanks TK, it's good to hear that actually, seems the local docs here are only about mis-informing me, or not-informing me, resulting in scaring me out of my wits! Once again, I learn more online than I do from my "supposed" doctor!

I was going to say the same tk... someone is spinning a web of crap there!! The other things are understandable (although I dont know what anti-cardiolipin antibodies are...) but first timer, yeah right?!!!

I definately want a homebirth for my next baby, but I'm not TTC so I wont be having a baby before july 2010... If its still illegal by the time my next baby is due, I would still go looking for a midwife who was willing to be be there to help me birth my baby. If I couldnt find one then maybe I could just stay at home for my whole labour and call an ambulance at the last minute, then refuse to get in the ambulance and insist I give birth at my house, lol!!!!!!

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If birth comes on really quickly at home, and you have to accidentally birth, with ambulance called at the last minute, what would they do? Prosecute you?

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It's legal for you to have a birth at home (or anywhere else!), it's just that if you have a private midwife with you, SHE is breaking the law (you're not though). So while you wouldn't get prosecuted, your middy, if you had one, would get a $30 000 fine.

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It's legal for you to have a birth at home (or anywhere else!), it's just that if you have a private midwife with you, SHE is breaking the law (you're not though). So while you wouldn't get prosecuted, your middy, if you had one, would get a $30 000 fine.

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Important point.

So, its not really the birthing mother who has to go underground, but the midwife. The midwife is the one who takes on the risks. I think it is easier to say (as a prospective birthmother) 'absolutely, i would go underground'.

If i was a midwife, i would want to be absolutely confident in the trust between myself and the client that they would protect me (if that was the agreement) for the whole time. I also think (if i was a midwife!) that it would be more difficult to remain committed to the homebirth experience when things got a bit difficult, with these laws hanging over you head. If something happened, you could be risking your house and livelihood ($30,000 fine) plus the effects on your professionally.

One thing Shel said last night which made me think...

If you got a midwife who WOULD go underground, you would need to 110% sure that they would transfer you in case of emergency. Because they would get in trouble, so does that leave it open to the possibility of midwives taking more chances, so they don't get in trouble? You'd have to discuss that possibiliity of what if. Of course, if something DID go wrong, they'd be in trouble anyway, but would some (SOME) be more likely to leave it to the last minute.

Not that I'm saying midwives are all about themselves, but its their livelyhood and $30000, so would things that may be problems be overlooked possibley or played down ...? Of course, the answer owuld be to find a midwife you completely trust, and sure thats a great answer, but ... you'd never know?

Just to clarify a couple of things. If after July 2010 I attend a homebirth I can be fined up to $30,000 and face 2 years in jail. But also the woman who employed me to attend the birth can also be fined $30,000 for encouraging a health professional to practice outside the law. After saying this I will still be offering to attend homebirths for women still willing to take the chance of a very hefty fine.

If the proposed laws are passed (horrendous thought) I think we will see a lot of 'free-birthing' - which I do not think is really a desirable outcome. The Government are really being so dogmatic and arrogant in assuming that taking women's free choice away will have a positive result.
I am determined to have a midwife-led homebirth for my third child, provided all goes smooth with my second labour, so I would be sorely disappointed if this option was not available to me in the near future. I guess I would be forced into choosing my second most favourable option - birthing in a midwife-led birthing centre.

Alan, the thing that worries me is that there are so many opportunities to get the midwife found out - what will happen with the birth certificate? I mean from the example above about the transfer, I would assume you may be able to say that the birth happened very quickly or you planned to freebirth? I dont know but I do know that I will find a way. I might be calling you Alan lol :) Its unlikely I will be able to make the July 2010 deadline but yeah after that time concerns me. It's my dream to have a homebirth in water after two hospital births... I am not going to finish on a bad note.

ETA: Maybe we shouldnt discuss loopholes on a public forum LOL.

If homebirth is made illegal it's enough make us consider moving back to NZ!

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If homebirth is made illegal it's enough make us consider moving back to NZ!

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lol i would consider moving there too :)

but if push came to shove and i couldnt have a "friend" present................ i would labour at home and call the ambos. if all was well they would have a hard time getting me to the hospital!

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If homebirth is made illegal it's enough make us consider moving back to NZ!

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Yes, we need a Govt' health system like NZ. Where the midwife follows the mother to wherever she wants to birth. Be it at a hospital of choice, a birthcentre or at home.
Hopefully we will see the range of our own maternity services broaden in the public hospital system. We've graduated to birth centres and know your midwife programs, surely it can extend to community/home midwifery models of care too.

This whole situation makes me so sad. Shouldnt womens rights be getting better not worse in this day and age?

what will be next they will be telling us we all need c section so it can be as clinical as possible :(

I hope the new regulations are not passed and women ahvea right to choose to birth where they wish!

I have had one hospital birth and one homebirth, i will NOT go back for another hospital birth without a GOOD medical reason, they scared me, they terrified my mother and my husband, they interfered with me, they nearly killed my son. As far as i am concerned, hospital is more dangerous for me than freebirth. I will make sure i have good prenatal care and appropriate tests, i will book into a hospital just incase but i will birth at home with my husband and my mum, and maybe a midwife that i know who attended my last birth even though she wasn't registered, i have jumped through the hoops of not having a midwife present at my birth in regards to birth certificates and centrelink and i will do it again.

I would be more than happy to discuss this further with anyone :)

edja84, are you me with a different username?

If I'm denied any help with a homebirth, I will cancel all further appointments and freebirth without stress. Having said that, a freebirth was my preferred option with Liebling and hospital records show that when I was left alone, head round the door every hour, my labour was "perfect". So I'd be an ideal candidate for just calling in a midwife just before I want to push apparently.

Unless Alan fancies travelling halfway around the world, any future baby is going to be aiming for a freebirthed baby.

I would freebirth if i could not homebirth. More likely i would invite a friend who happened to be a midwife (with their agreement of course!) over to assist and if anything went wrong i would call an ambulance and have her out of sight when it arrived. Trust is not an issue for me. If i trust someone with my child's life, pretty obviously i trust them to do their best not to get us both fined $30000.

Midwives in the US face this dilemma every day and still homebirths are done, and attended, whether it is legal or not. Eventually politicians will realise that you cannot effectively enforce laws governing birth any more than you can make it illegal for it to rain.

Bx

I would like to encourage every woman out there to never let cultural norms, the economic climate, politics, laws, increasing technologisation of family life, beliefs, misinformation, scare tactics, expectations from family, friends, society or government, lack of freedom, the failure of democracy, oppression, persecution or ANYTHING else prevent you from choosing the safest, gentlest, wisest way to give birth, for the sake or your well-being, your baby's well-being and that of you family and everyone in it.

It doesn't matter what the law will be from next July onwards. We need to see the bigger picture. Right around the world, natural values and feminine wisdom is being denigrated and marginalised. In every society where technology is advancing, natural living skills are being lost, sometimes irretrievably. In countries where this is not a mutually honouring balance between the wisdom of the masculine and the wisdom of the feminine, you see the feminine being dominated and vital wisdom and skills being trodden under foot.

Every woman knows deep in her heart and soul what she is capable of and what she needs to give birth safely. You can't look at what is available, what is "allowed", what is even "legal" and then try to work within that. You need to start with your own deep wisdom, your own vision of what you know is right and safe and good for you when you are birthing. And then - choose that. And do whatever you need to achieve that.

Underground or not, we in Australia are part of a network of women and men in every country who are clinging onto the remnants of natural wisdom and knowledge, to preserve the love and gentleness and compassion needed to nuture our unborns, birth them safely, and parent them gently and kindly.

Don't give up and don't let any authority of home, church, state or peer group, dictate what is accepable for you. Access your own inner wisdom, then reach out to support, and feel the support of, women all around the world who instinctively know these things are too precious to lose and cannot be wrested from our possession so easily.

(Paradise I LOVE your last sentence, especially.)