Am I weird for not liking this termionolgy???

I have a bit of an issue with the term "natural birth" ...:redface:

I know it's silly but does that mean what what I had is unnatural??? Couldn't it be conventional birth or vaginal birth....

Hmmm... I am sure I am just being silly ..... but the look on people's face when they ask if I had a natural birth (not sure why they need to know in the first place):rolleyes: and then the look some people give you when you say you had a c-section.

I can't be effed going through my birth story with complete strangers or acquaintances and just let them come to their own conclusions about why I had a cesar.

Hmm... what do you think?

I don't have an issue with the term "natural" mainly cos I don't have an issue with a c-section being "un-natural" or whatever.

I mean, you can have a perfectly natural birth on your own - but I dont' think I'd be game performing a natural c-section at home on myself!!! lol

I dunno - I just don't see it negatively - its just a word. Doesn't mean we didn't give birth or that we aren't real women, but we didn't do it naturally cos we had some assistance (that was needed).

:hug:

:hug:

I personally can understand using the term natural, but i do know how you feel. There is that implication of c/s being 'unnatural', which I guess when you go down to the nitty gritty they aren't biologically natural... not to discount how you feel :hug: I also had a lot of issues with terms like natural, normal, real etc...

I always get (not so much now, as I avoid conversations about how Jazz was born) 'real' birth... oh well you didn't have a 'real' birth. Someone's going to get frypan over their head next time I hear that :(

Leash!! Thats terrible!!! Who would ever say its not real!?!? FFS.. we didn't dream it - we all lived it - its bloody real alright!!!!

Can I be wielding that frypan!?

:p as long as its cast iron!

Well, I guess it depends on how you feel about your CS. If you are satisfied with the reasons that you had it, then I think there is no problem with contrasting it against a natural birth; I don't think you can really call a CS a natural birth, but that doesn't make it any less important or valid.

For what it's worth, I object to hearing people talk about their "natural" birth that involved an epidural, and forceps. I wouldn't really refer to that as a "natural" birth either, although it is a vaginal birth. And once more, just because your birth wasn't natural and you had interventions, doesn't make it any less valid an experience.

I always look at the term 'natural' being used because people are uncomfortable using the word 'vaginal'. I don't think it's a comment at all on c-secs, or births involving drugs/intervention/surgery being 'unnatural', I think it's just that a lot of people are a bit squeamish about directly referring to genitals and reproductive organs and therefore use the term 'natural' to refer to a vaginal birth because it's 'impolite' to say 'vagina' lol.
I know I'm quite happy to say 'vaginal delivery' because hey, it's just a body part, but if a stranger or acquaintance were to ask me whether my kids were delivered vaginally I would probably be a bit :o for a second, it's so unusual to hear anybody other than doctors use the word, kwim?

I guess it depends on how you interpret "Natural Birth" . For me Natural Birth is a vaginal birth with absolutely no intervention whatsoever. Vaginal birth is obviously what it is but with some assistance drugs etc. Conventional birth - I personally hate that term :lol:
C-sec are normal these days but not what I would consider natural iykwim?? sorry no offense intended just my humble opinion.

I know the look you're talking about when it comes to C-Sec discussions with people and its none of their business. I just say for me there was no choice, birthing my baby the old fashioned way would have killed her - that often changes their tune.

But that's just me, and I also believe women should choose what they feel is the best way to birth their baby (bring their baby into this world).

:hug: don't worry about those people hun, it is none of their business :hug:

I am rambling

Yes I do think C/S is unnatural ;) And I had one. But its still birth. I had someone once tell me I never had a birth because my child didn't go through my birth canal thankfully they said this to me online, had it been in person I dare say they would have had a new birth canal themselves. Try not to look at the negatives, look at the positives. Natural birth is a wonderful thing especially for the select few that achieve it, and I don't want to take that away from them just because I have never had one myself. I got close with DS but I still had ARM at 7cms and Peth post birth. But hey I'm freakin' stoked about it. I could sit here and poo poo myself because I didn't have a zen birth but my birth was awesome and I loved it. And I can even say the same now about my daughter's C/S.

If we continually put ourselves down because of the pride in certain areas of birth/parenting we'll never be happy and we'll find guilt in everything. I try and think of it like this... If 3 people ran a race and someone came first does that person not deserve to be proud of their achievements. What about the guy who tripped after the first lap and snapped his ankle and couldn't continue racing, because of that should we then drop the term winner and lose the medals just because he's upset because the race didn't go the way he wanted it to and he had to bow out due to an injury. No of course not. Sometimes birth is very much like this. And sometimes there are casualties, we were those casualties we didn't get to finish the race but heck we still got to race even if it was 1 lap (well it was for me, I know for you it was about 9 which is harder to deal with I know!) but we did our best and that IS important.

But don't be ashamed of your c/s. And if you don't want to answer the question, just say "Thats a bit personal... Do you want to know how I poo too?" the shock should shut them up ;)

You are a beautiful birthing goddess, who had a c/s to birth a gorgeous little boy and that is wonderful. Yes its ok to care that you didn't get the outcome you wished you had, but don't let it consume you because its just not worth it. I've been there and it sucks. Bigtime.

:hug: xxx

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Yes its ok to care that you didn't get the outcome you wished you had, but don't let it consume you because its just not worth it. I've been there and it sucks. Bigtime.

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Ooooh yeah it sure does. I'm only just getting myself out of there :hug:

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For what it's worth, I object to hearing people talk about their "natural" birth that involved an epidural, and forceps. I wouldn't really refer to that as a "natural" birth either...

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I agree! I am fine with people using the term 'natural birth' if in fact it was a drug free birth. I do not like it when people say they had a natural birth which involved an epidural and forceps (as Michael pointed out), to me that is a 'vaginal birth'.

When I am asked how I will be birthing this baby (after a CS with DD) I say I am aiming for a vaginal birth and to have a natural birth would be an added bonus :D.

I am lucky I suppose that I have not had any negative comments towards having a CS, I think because DD was born very sick they realised that the outcome may have been very different (possibly alot worse that is) if she was born vaginally. Although I do still hate having to say that I had a CS and avoid it if I can, I am hoping that this time I can have a vaginal birth, I might then be able to the negatives of a CS behind me.

Thanks Everyone - some amazingly good points here!
I think a lot of it does boil down to me being uncomfortable about my c-section and the reasons behind it which I won't go into here.
I think this is something that needs a Dee attitude readjustment :)

It takes time :hug: Go slow and be gentle on yourself. xx

I agree - it definitely takes time. :hug:

i completely agree with gothmum.... nobody (besides maybe your doctor or partner) wants to ask you directly about your vagina and what may or may not have come out of it, so they tippy toe around it by saying 'natural' birth... i'm fine with it and i probably have said it myself to people i don't know so well if it came up.

actually as im considering having a c-section this time around (again), i find myself referring to a 'vaginal birth' as 'pushing it out', hahahaha... not very tactful but i keep finding myself in conversation saying 'i hope they (obs/midwives) don't try to make me push it out'...

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I don't have an issue with the term "natural" mainly cos I don't have an issue with a c-section being "un-natural" or whatever.

I mean, you can have a perfectly natural birth on your own - but I dont' think I'd be game performing a natural c-section at home on myself!!! lol

I dunno - I just don't see it negatively - its just a word. Doesn't mean we didn't give birth or that we aren't real women, but we didn't do it naturally cos we had some assistance (that was needed).

:hug:

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Couldnt have said it better!:dance::clap:

Have just had more of a think about this.... there are a lot of words that are negative if you think too much about them...

"failure" to thrive
"incompetent" cervix
"failure" to progress
inter uterine growth "retardation"
"Incomplete" m/c

And there are many more, but really who ever wants to be labelled with one of those statements....

Dee I have a bugbear about the word "birthed" eg so and so 'birthed' their DS/DD it's like nails down a chalkboard to me, but that's just me. What is so wrong with giving birth, I think that sounds much better.
In your case I think you're a freaking labour hero - 50 hours in a bushfire, I'm sorry I don't care that it ended in CS you've battled through a hell of a lot more labour than I did! Hope you can feel proud of yourself for that sometime soon. Next time someone asks just tell them you were in labour for 50 hours and leave it at that!

I agree with ThePixie Dee, your freakin wonder woman!! Alot of other people would have bowed out alot sooner (me included) but you kept going until it just wasn't a possibility anymore.
I'd be damn proud of yourself honey! A c-section may have been the last thing you wanted, but the end result was the same, you got your beautiful little Blue out safe and sound.

But back to the point of this post, I'll have to agree with GothMum and ThePixie (again!) different people have problems with different terminology. If some chick stopped me in the shopping centre and asked if i had a "vaginal" birth, and how my vagina was holding up since, i'd probably have a fake smile plastered to my face as i tried like hell to convey to other people that she's crazy and i need help without letting the Vagina lady know what i was up to... "mummy, why does that ladies eyes look like their screaming???"

But yes, for me, "Natural birth" is alot more comfy for me to say than "Vaginal Birth".

have you written a birth story? Would love to read it....seems you are quite the wonderwomen and have a lot to be proud of!!!

I am a purist, s i wouldn't call a c-section natural, but i wouldn't call what i had "natural" either because i used entonox and had sintocinon for the 3rd stage.

I do think it is amazing the lengths people go to to avoid saying the word "vagina" and figure that's what most people mean when they begin bandying "natural" "normal" "traditional" and "conventional" about. I try to answer by saying "vagina" as many times as possible in one sentence. :D

I am a nosy birth parker but i tend to ask "how was the birth?" because that gives the private mum a chance to say "fine" or "ok" or whatever without revealing any details if she doesn't want to and those who actually want to talk a chance to do so. I love to hear about births, all kinds of births, and would love to read your birth story too Dee - i can remember reading the announcement and thinking of you up in that hoissie with the whole mountain behind you on fire, labouring to get your baby out while the rest of nature ran for it. Such an exciting story to tell bubs too. You're certainly one of the many heroine's of the board hun.

Bx

I hate "natural" birth with a passion. I have a "natural birth" box ticked on my latest smear test - I gave the nurse a glare when she asked if I had a natural birth until she changed it to "vaginal".

If what I had was natural I don't know how you others had anything worse!

BTW, I can say "vaginal birth" but when DS pointed in the bath last night and asked "what's that?" I was happy with "nipple" and "belly button" but vagina? That had a big um and er in front of it. I have no idea why I'm not comfortable with that word as with talking about birth I'm fine with it! But to a toddler... shouldn't be weird, should it?

I am a bit literal so I think of natural birth as birth free from any intervention, drugs etc. I had a vaginal birth and would correct anyone if they said I had a natural birth given I was induced and had an epi. I would say not natural but vaginal yes.
Natural does mean "produced by nature" so I wouldn't say that being induced meant my birth was produced by nature..unfortunately.

I too would love to read your birth story!!!

Ryn as few weeks ago DD told an elderly lady on the bus that "when i came out mummy's tummy it was ok and the doctor didn't have to cut because i came outta vagina". I resisted the urge to say i was a babysitter...lol. This was all off the back of a friend showing me her c-section scar and us talking about our births together when we thought the kids weren't payig any attention.

Is it maybe because he's a boy? I taught DD all te "correct" words as part of my mission to protect her from sexual abusebut i admit it did squick me out a bit hearing her say "penis" the first few times (not that we say "penis" a lot in my house!).

Bx

No, I don't think you're weird Dee!

The thing is that, by implication, using the term "natural" implies that anything else is "unnatural" and I don't know anyone who would instantly choose "unnatural". Natural = good, pure. Unnatural = not good. That's just the way language works.

Having said that, I also think it's natural after a very long labour to want to try/do something else.

I would challenge anyone to have my labour (or yours) and NOT have an epidural or other interventions. I really would. I guess that's why I actually feel very proud of my labour. I feel like I did an absolutely tremendous job and I don't think that someone who had a 12 hour drug free labour can really compare. But that's the whole point - we shouldn't compare. We can't and we shouldn't.

As I've said before, my obstetrician told me that it's the length of the labour that determines whether a woman has interventions. Not her pain threshold, not her determination, not her willpower ... simply the length of the labour and we can't (really) influence that.

Wow.....wow....wow

For once I am lost for words .... doesn't happen often :rofl:

I don't even know where to start - I am so floored by the posts here and the overwhelming support -got me all teary....

I have a birth story posted .... but don't know how to post a link but it's in there somewhere.... if someone can tell me how to post it I will for anyone who wants to read it....

Thankyou to you all - your all freakin amazingly wonderful
xoxoxoxox

Here ya go Dee

Dee's birth story

Thanks babe - glad your a bit clueier than me :)

Dee I just read ur birth story..what an amazing story..yes certainly not boring!!!! How tough are you!!! And I think (if you wanted to) you could use the term natural when talking about your birth. You went into labour "naturally" and laboured "naturally" for a long time!!!! I would say your labour/birth would be more natural than mine which was medically intervened with from the start!!

I agree with GothMum - I think people are afraid to use the word vagina :) TBH, I didn't consider my c/s as "unnatural" until I read this thread, I guess technically it is, but I'm ok with it. Mainly because the reason I had a c/s was placenta praevia and there was no avoiding it.

I must admit, I enjoy people squirm or look uncomfortable when they ask me "So, are you having another c/s then?" and I say "Nope, vaginal birth". Then they look at me like I'm a crazy woman and I leave it at that.

So, Dee, I don't think it's weird at all and your birth story is lovely. Seems like you had plenty of natural elements in your labour :)

TBH i had people ask me when planning a homebirth what i had against "doing it the traditional way" - i.e. in a hospital apparently (guess which "tradition" has been going longest :think: ). And in response to my actual birth i get everything from snapped "aren't you smug then!"or shocked "weren't you scared one of you would DIE!?" to being treated like the Madonna herself.

For every person you come across who is crazy in one way you'll find someone who is crazy in another. "Natural" is so vague too. I mean don't ALL mothers want to have their baby healthy and safe? Isn't it pretty natural to have a cs when one is needed then? Don't ALL mothers want what's best for their child? Isn't it fairly natural to go with what you're told by the person who is supposed to know what they're talking about then, even if it later turns out to be bad advice from a shoddy doctor or midwife? Women NATURALLY want to do the right thing by their child, and sometimes that desire is going to mean a csection happened.

Bx

I don't mind telling people (if asked, I don't just volunteer the information!) that I have had vaginal births. The technical term, according the terminology used in my file, is SVD - or standard vaginal delivery. I don't feel overly comfortable with the term "natural birth". First, because *technically* a natural birth is one that starts spontaneously and continues without any intervention whatsoever - including the gas. And I suppose second, because of the insinuation that anything else is "unnatural". If you by the technical definition, none of my births were 'natural', but at the same time I am uncomfortable with the insinuation that therefore means they were somehow unnatural. So I am happy with 'vaginal' - it's accurate and inoffensive (unless you really have a problem hearing the word said, in which case you shouldn't be asking me about my birth in the first place!).