Crappy Cot, Any advice -legal or not - so dissapointed

Hi girls,

Just wondered if anyone had any advice or experience with fair trading or what I can do in this situation.

In May I started looking for a cot and looked online as well as all the usual baby stores. I was so excited when I found a great special for a Sereno Baby cot for $190. I rang the number on the website and spoke to the girl who was lovely and organized for the cot to be sent down from Sydney (I'm in Melbourne), paid for it over the phone, nice and easy.
Anyway DH unpacked it yesterday to put it together and it had a deep scratch on the bedhead panel ? The more he unpacked the more scratches and dents he found.I was so disappointed, I rang them up again and told them what happened.
The girl on the phone (not the same girl I had dealt with initially) told me that the cot was well out of the return period and that it was a factory second so I wouldn't have been ale to get my money back anyway. I was very surprised because there was nothing on their website to indicate that it was a factory second, it just said "special". I told her this and that in all the conversations I had with the girl who organized the transaction, she never mentioned that it was a "factory second"?
Then the girl I was speaking to, told me that it was "clearly" marked and that this is why it was only $190 dollars because it was a factory second.
Should I have assumed that is was on special because it was a factory second? I was so confused.
Anyway she said I could call her on Monday and have it couriered back (at my own expense, again) and I could purchase a new cot from them but hat I couldn't get my money back?
I later jumped on their website again, Baby Savings Co and had another look to make sure it wasn't baby brain. So I went to products, then specials , then clicked on Sereno Cot and I WAS'NT losing my mind. Nowhere does it say Factory second, it just says "special". BUT then, DH had a looked and he clicked on "sleeping", then "cots" then "Sereno by love'n'care" and there it DOES say Factory Seconds but in smaller writing than where it screams, "SPECIAL".
My question is, Do I have a leg to stand on because I genuinely didn't see that it was a factory Second? I don't have a problem with Factory Seconds but I never would have bought a Factory Second unless I could go down to the factory to check it out.
I'm 4 weeks away from giving birth and I feel so, so disappointed and don't know what I can do? I don't know if I should spend more money on top of the money I've already spent or fight it because it just seems so unfair !
What do you girls think ?

I would ring fair trading and get their advice.
It should be clearly makred as a second, you shouldnt have to search the site for a hidden page that says it.
Id do it tomorrow too so that it hasnt changed before its look at if they investigate it.
I know in the past companies have been held liable for not clearly marking prducts - like when big name stores have 15%off everything then fine print that excludes X,Y and Z

You should probably also take some screen shots of the website in case they make changes. Definitely contact fair trading/consumer affairs.

Definitely get in touch with the dept. of fair trading - they may be able to help you.

Now having said that, even though I think you are in the right for this, be prepared for the fact that it is still unlikely to be resolved. Unfortunately, in instances like this, you are often left just to live with it, because the costs associated with pursuing any legal avenue often outways what you get out of it. Further to this is the time factor involved. Even if you do manage to get this resolved satisfactorily, then it is likely to take alot longer then four weeks to do so, given their current attitude.

Basically you need to weigh up how much and how far you are willing to pursue this.
I am not trying to discourage you, and wish you all the luck sorting this out.

Is there anyway you can fix the scratches?

Can you try again, ring the company or send them an email clearly outlining where they fell short of their obligations? State what you think it is worth and ask for a portion of money back, say 50%? I did this when a removalist took all day to move what was a 3 hour job, and they OFFERED me a refund of $300. It could be worth a try.

However, the website does say 'seconds' even if it is smaller than 'special'. I would probably do the same if I was advertising something; I would emphasis the positive (special) rather than the negative (seconds). The company might not be willing to budge at all because of this.

EDIT: I just checked out the site and it does say factory seconds quite clearly. I am not sure you have an avenue of recompense here. The only thing it doesn't say is what sort of damage there is.

You can always resell the cot on ebay if you really don't want it.

it does say factory seconds clearly..and to me..does stand out

Call around, you might have an avenue to get your money back

The website says they sell new, preloved and factory seconds but they don't label that cot as a factory second. I would be upset, and would dispute it as well.

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The website says they sell new, preloved and factory seconds but they don't label that cot as a factory second. I would be upset, and would dispute it as well.

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Actually it does on the page!

Well

When you go to specials it doesnt say

but when you go to the sleeping section it does... weird

Arent they legally ment to state what is wrong if its a second????

hmmm Ive had my bad share of cot exploits.....dont take it...if you dont agree fight it

I had a look too and it says:
Love N' Care Sereno Cot

FACTORY SECONDS

ON SPECIAL FOR $190.00!!
*price only valid for WHITE Sereno Cot

If this is the same one you purchased then yes it clearly says Factory Seconds....and you don't have much to go on....sorry!!!!!!!!

I think only way you would get around it is if you did say you only looked in the 'Specials' section as it does NOT say 'Factory Seconds' in the description (not that it even had any desciption in there..LOL)...but in the main 'Sleeping...Cots' section it does clearly say 'Seconds'.

So fight on that level...(Specials section)

I went through this EXACT thing with a major bed retailer - we bought a bed from the floor, inspected it at the time, but when it was delivered it had pen and texta marks, scratches etc.

Lonng long LONG story short - I got legal advice and found that if you are not happy with the condition of the merchandise, YOU are the one who determines the action necessary, NOT the retailer. Meaning that they can't say you can only have store credit, if you want a money back refund, that's what you get.

It took me MONTHS of emailing back and forth, and a couple of times I wanted to just give up, but once I found the above info, I emailed it to her, and said I would be pursuing legal action if she didn't authorise the refund within 7 business days. I got an email the next day saying something like, 'well we don't want to admit liability but to shut you up, here's your money back' :) :) :) :)

PM me if you need some help darl :)

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I think only way you would get around it is if you did say you only looked in the 'Specials' section as it does NOT say 'Factory Seconds' in the description (not that it even had any desciption in there..LOL)...but in the main 'Sleeping...Cots' section it does clearly say 'Seconds'.

So fight on that level...(Specials section)

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Yeah that's exactly what I did? I was looking for a white cot on special so I looked in the specials section and clicked on cots. If you follow the path I took and go to the specials page, it does not say Factory Second, at all ?

I didn't even think to search the rest of the website "just in case" it happened to say Factory second somewhere. None of the conversations I had with the sales girl indicated that it was a factory second AND I got three receipts on arrival taped to the box, One was my visa payment receipt, one was a written receipt that does NOT say Factory Second and one is a printed receipt that DOES say factory second?

Eurgh ! I will take a screen shot of the page an call Fair Trading tomorrow.

sunflowa_girlie I have PM'd you for any advice you may have, having been in a similar situation. Thanks......

take a screen dump of the page you went to so that they can't change it - then pursue it for sure -just make sure you have a copy of the page you were looking at so that they can't change it and say it had factory seconds on there when it doesn't

i'd also suggest you take the link out of your opening post cos it links to a sales site - you don't want to be infracted - just put in google terms for people to search for it that way...

I DO think you have a leg to stand on. The fact that you can buy directly from the page that DOESN'T say 'Factory Second' even though that particular item IS a factory second, is misleading. How are you to know that one listing that says factory second applies to another listing that doesn't? I would be pursuing it based on that. If you were directed to the factory seconds page BEFORE purchase, that would be different. Does it say anywhere on the receipt that it is a factory second? Or maybe an order confirmation email or something?

I would have assumed they were two different listings, if it were me. Yes they're the same price but I would have thought they were two different items. Definitely pursue it.

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Actually it does on the page!

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Not on the page where you go through the Specials link!

I went through the Specials link and found the cot. I also searched for "cot" and "sereno" using their search function (because i was looking for where it did say factory seconds for THIS item), and neither of these searches led to the item. A customer shouldn't have to do this extra searches, but even if you did you still don't get sent to the page where this descriptor is included.

This is their error in not having 'factory second' listed on every page that the item is advertised, and they should be addressing your concerns.

Thanks to everyone for your replies and advice. I have removed the link Briggsy's Girl (thanks for the advice :hug:)

I spoke to Fair Trading today and the lady advised me that I am in the right. She told me to write an e-mail to them about what happened and that I am entitled to a full refund. She also said it was not reasonable to expect a consumer to have to search the entire website to confirm if the product happens to be a Factory Second and that it should be clearly stated on EVERY page not just one. It goes against the Trade Practices Act , general fair trading and also Product Safety. It's not like the cot has a few scratches on it, they are deep scratches and the joins are sort of crumbly as well and wood is flaking off ???
So I'm going to take photo's, I have a screen print of the page and I am going to write my e-mail !
Thanks again and wish me luck girls :protest:

Good luck!

I went straight to the specials page, saw the cot and nothing mentioned about factory seconds. I definitely think you do have a leg to stand on. Definitely screen dump and stand your ground until you get what you want.
All the best hun :hug:

Good work and good luck following this through! :thumbsup:


Reminds me of a situation my DH experienced earlier this year. He noticed that a previously vacant shop on Collins Street Melbourne was being used by shirt makers Rhodes & Beckett to sell shirts at heavily reduced prices (just shirts on trollies, no carpet or decor, just a temporary set up). So he went in and bought two of them. Then he came home and proudly showed me and crowed about how much money he had saved. The sale continued the next day... he told a few of his colleagues.. who went and had a look too. Then he had a meeting with a client... and I could be breaching confidentiality here but lets just say that DH then found out that the shirts that he had bought were infact factory seconds!!!! The client said; "so have you discovered what the faults are yet?" DH was horrified! I went over the shirts with a visual fine tooth comb but couldn't see anything more serious than a loose button on one and a sewn in fleck of something brown (looked like a splinter, it was tiny... it came out). So no harm done. But there was definitely no reference to the sale being factory seconds! :( So caveat emptor (buyer beware) and be highly suspicious of heavily reduced items! If it didn't happen months ago i'd probably follow it up with Fair trading too.

:o :D :dance: Quick update to those who have been following my post on the Sereno Cot by Love n Care purchased online, paid for over the phone to Baby Savings Co in NSW... Which arrived in terrible condition !....

I sent an e-mail yesterday to Baby Savings Co outlining my dissapointment and intentions to go to NSW Fair Trading if this matter could not be resolved at no further cost to me. I also e-mailed photo's of the deep scratches, dents and where wood and paint was actually flaking away at the joins as well as well as a scanned copy of the receipts.
Well ! I am so relieved ! I just got a phone call this morning from the girl I spoke to when I discovered the crappy cot that had been sent. So she starts off by letting me know where she's calling from and asking if I had received her e-mail? I said I had not had a chance to look this morning and my stomach kind of got nervous cause I thought, here we go, what excuse am I going to get here?

But no, she started of by apologizing for the crappy Cot and that she did not realize from our conversation on the phone the extent of the damage. She said usually when customers complain, they are complaining about superficial scratches and that's why she kind of dismissed it and said it could be spray painted over. She also apologized for this assumption too.
She said she had looked at the photos I sent and she was absolutely shocked and usually the factory seconds they get sent from Love n Care are superficial scratches but that his was far more than superficial. I agreed and explained that, that's why I sent photo's because it was really terrible and unsafe to even consider putting a child in (flaking wood and paint). She agreed and then said, that she had called Love n Care and told them what had happened and that they have ruined the reputation of Baby Savings Co by dispatching a product so below standard to them, to ship out. She went on to say that she would choose another cot with no markings and that if she finds that all the Sereno cots are Factory seconds then she would upgrade to a different cot and have it shipped out by Friday at the expense of Love n Care !!!!! yay! :leap:
I am so happy and I told her I appreciate her resolving this situation so quickly and thanked her. She said "No that's ok, thank you for being understanding". She also said the crappy cot would be picked up by the courier at the time they drop off the new cot also at no further expense to me. ( I did say in my e-mail that It isn't reasonable to expect that I should have to pay for shipping twice and therefore be out of pocket $88 for their mistake)....
So the conversation was finished very pleasantly and she apologized again and said she would have a cot to me by next Monday and that she understands that thhi is the last thing I need, being not far away from being due.
I thanked her and said that I appreciate that, and that was it !
I just had a look at the e-mail she sent me and it says

"Hello Jane,

I have just viewed your email and the images if the sereno cot, from our conversation on Monday I was not of the impression of the extent of the condition of the cot. I am mortified of the condition. I did state during our conversation that it was outside of refund terms and did suggest that we contact the supplier Love N Care to see if they will fix the cot by re-spraying "scratches". The factory seconds cot were discounted as they have superficial scratches. The photos you have provided are more than significant scratches. I will be in touch with the supplier to rectify the issue immediately. I will be in contact with you tomorrow afternoon.

Regards Alex
BabySavings Co"

In addition to the conversation I had with Alex this morning, I am happy to say that I am very happy with this outcome and I just also wanted to thank everyone who contributed their point of view and shared their experiences in terms of this situation.
Here's hoping I get a nice new cot as I originally intended.....

Yay..what a great outcome!

That's fantastic and admirable that you both ended the conversation on good terms :thumbsup: I know too many people who would have been indignant to the very end despite the apologies and ended with something like "Well so you SHOULD be sorry!!!" I always cringe when I hear that :( But you have done so well and it now sounds as if this girl is going to do everything she can to make it all better! :clap: :clap: :clap:

:clap: fantastic hon!!!! SO glad that she saw that you weren't an over the top pg woman and that you were speaking the truth :)

NOw you know you have to share pics when it arrives and is set up

Yay! That is brilliant. I think it is fantastic that they resolved it in the way they did.

haha! Thanks girls ! Yeah I'm really glad that it has been resolved he way it has. No point in being nasty.My e-mail was to the point and firm but I saw no reason to be rude. I think people get their backs up when you're rude and that doesn't help anyone.

I will put pictures up MAZ, not quite sure how to do that but I'll work it out.

Thanks again to everyone for their support :grouphug:

Thats awesome! I'm so glad that it got sorted out in the end :)

Ok sorry if this is dragging on, but I'm just so grateful ! I got a call from Alex from Baby Savings Co again today and she said that Love n Care were proving to be quite difficult to deal with but that she wanted to resolve this issue and make it up to me as soon as possible. Soooo, she said she sent me a photo of the Rosella Cot by Mother Care to see what I think? She said it is a new cot which they sell at $279 but that it would be at no extra cost to me and that she could have it shipped out and the crappy one picked up by Tuesday or Wednesday next week. I am so ecstatic ! I said I would have a bit of a look at the rosella cot and the details and feedback from people who have bought one and get back to her.
Well it checks out fine and I just rang her back and said that was fine and so I should have a brand new cot by mid next week.

I also sent her this e-mail....

Hello Alex,

Thank you for your promptness regarding the issue of the Sereno Cot by Love n Care. I look forward to receiving the new Rosella cot in white in the next couple of days, as per our telephone conversation , and finalizing this matter.
I'd also like to say thank you for reacting in a manner which has restored faith in me as a consumer with your business.

Sincerely
Jane

So I guess it is worth believing in yourself and speaking up when something like this happens. Thanks to you girls too, I felt really supported by your understanding and empathy with this situation.

:loveshower: :hooray:

Oh that is fantastic! It seems that because you have been so gracious despite being inconvenienced Alex is really going above-and-beyond what she has to do to satisfy a customer that she obviously feels so sorry for. That's the tricky thing when making a complaint: it's dead easy to crack it and vent your spleen at staff... that will probably get you "justice" ie in this case Alex would have seen that you got an exact replacement although it might have taken a bit longer. But it's a bit harder to complain yet let the staff know that you have nothing against them and acknowledging that to a certain extent what happened was out of their control. So because you did this Alex is extra keen to help out this very understanding customer... and she has sought to not only make sure justice is served but gone that little bit further and made sure that you have come out a bit better... well A LOT better in this case! A brand new cot of higher value but at no extra cost delivered asap! I would be thrilled too! :dance: I hope everything continues to work out well... and you know what? If after the cot arrives and you are completely happy I would go as so far as to write a letter to the manager (Alex's boss) to say how professional and understanding she was. I believe that would really motivate the company to maintain the highest standards of service... and who knows, you might have further dealings with them and be grateful for their help again. Looking forward to an update on delivery of your cot! :)

Ooh, can't believe I missed the update - congratulations!!!

Yay! a win for the little guy!. Nice going lovey, goes to show that it does pay to put your hand up when something doesn't seam quite right...:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Ok so I got my new cot..... not totally happy with it ?? It's supposed to be a new cot but there's a scratch on one of the panels? I just got DH to get some touch up paint to paint over it because I can't be bothered sending it back and all the rigmarole so I'm just going to leave it at that...... ah well not long to go now......

oh what a bugger!

Oh that sucks.

oh well, proves you almost always get what you pay for I guess.... but how is the cot structurally and functionally? Despite the scratch how do you think it will work for you? Maybe gain a bit of comfort in the fact that in about a year your cot will have a row of teething bite marks along the side rail. I sanded and painted my white cot before each baby to freshen it up but each child did this this biting thing... drove me nuts.