Year 10 Results & VCE

OK, quick recap on the background. DSD came to live with us from the States in Jan this year and long story short she'd had a very turbulent time there, hardly went to school and consequently failed every single subject.

When she first got here, her school report was pretty good.

The latest one has slipped and she's also missed quite a few classes. She's doing only averagely in all subjects and got a D in VCE Biology 1 & 2.

I know I should be asking the school this but it's quicker to do it on BB than find the number for the school coordinator and wait a few days of phone tagging to actually talk to them.

My question is, with those sorts of results in Year 10, how is she likely to do in VCE? I'm concerned that she may think that she can get into a course with a high ENTER score when maybe that's just not very realistic.

I'm not from Aus so the whole VCE/ENTER thing is a bit of a mystery to me. I just know if you were getting average/below average marks (so Cs and Ds) at age 16 in the UK, the chances of going to uni wouldn't be good. I know that the system is different over here and an average is just the learning standard they would expect so 'on track'. Didn't explain that very well.

Don't get me wrong, I don't see uni as the be all and end all - I just don't want HER having unrealistic expectations and she's a bit head in the cloudsy at the moment. She didn't even remember that she'd got a D in Biology when we talked last night - she thought she'd done really well.

It all depends on what she wants to do I suppose. Does she have any idea about what she wants to do at uni? Is it a course where there will be assumed knowledge right from the start or one where they start off as if everyone knows nothing. For example something like engineering requires a certain level of maths to have been studied beforehand whereas say a history degree doesn't usually require previous knowledge (exept for a level of written english)

My issue would be if she had thought that she went really well and she didn't is there some communication issue there? Or is she kidding herself or did the teacher muck up the marks - which does happen from time to time.

If she has a dream of doing something then there are always alternative methods of entry like doing a year of a "lesser" degree to prove that you can survive at uni - or doing bridging courses that loads of tafes and unis do.


Also, maybe getting bad marks now will be the kick in the bum that she needs to work harder for what she wants - if she knows - being 16 and deciding on your whole future is such a daunting experience - I'm twice that age and I am still trying to work out what I want to do when I grow up :)

Good luck - it sounds like at the moment you are one of her greatest assest - it is great to hear that she finally has someone in her corner willing to put in some effort - good on you.

Thanks Muppity.

She doesn't have a really good idea of what she wants to do as yet - which is no big deal, she's only 16 afterall. Great if she was specifically aiming for something but a lot of us don't decide until much later.

I guess my question though is - if she's getting average marks now, what is that likely to translate into as an ENTER score?

I found Year 10 to be the hardest year, and then there was a lot of work in VCE, but the work didn't get any harder IYKWIM.

VCE is really important. Not just for a TER score to get you into uni, but heaps of jobs want you to have finished VCE. It shows committment and a willing to keep working at something.

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Thanks Muppity.

I guess my question though is - if she's getting average marks now, what is that likely to translate into as an ENTER score?

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The ENTER score depends on the subjects you do as well as how well you do in that subject relative to other students.

OK, I think I found my answer on Wikipedia. Taking the fact that she's doing average in most subjects, it would be fair to presume that she'll get an average ENTER. I realise different courses have different weightings etc. but using 'averageness' as a rule of thumb, then Wikipedia says it's 53(ish). So I guess that's our starting point when she's beginning to look at careers.

And yes, hopefully she wants to do something with a higher ENTER and that will motivate her to pull up her socks a bit.

I teach in QLD so work in a different system, but here year 10 marks don't count for anything as far as uni entrance is concerned. Yr 11 and 12 are the important years. The problem with failing yr 10 is that it will make it more difficult for her to achieve high senior grades without the background knowledge. Not impossible though if she wants it badly enough.
Also, if you don't go straight to uni from high school they class you as a mature age student and entry is not reliant on high school marks anymore.

It is hard being a teenager... work on getting her attitude right. There are always alternative ways to get where you want to go, her future really isn't determined by how well she does at school.

I went through the NSW HSC system. I was also similar to your DD in that I had a fractured school and home life. I did very well at school until my parents divorced... usually in the top 5 students for any subject, except maths, which I struggled with. Now where I'm taking this is here: I was naturally bright but due to disruptive forces beyond my control I didn't do very well in high-school. I basically only kept my head above water. I got a few A's in subjects I didn't have to try with like Art, Agriculture and English.... but otherwise i was just managing to pass most subjects. This was how it was in year 10. But I went on to years 11 and 12. I only just passed my HSC... but I did well in English (in the top 15% of the state) which seemed to account for a lot. I got into Uni based on an interview and my portfolio... studied Visual Arts. Dropped out after 2 years (although I passed everything, the lecturers were creepy). Returned 10 years later as a mature age student, my life all peaceful, and completed a Fine Art degree here at Monash graduating in the top 5% of my course that year.... Distinction grade average in all subjects.

So what I'm trying to say is... I think... assess her wholistically in terms of her intelligence. School grades are not always reflective of ability. My situation also shows how others things like motivation, persistence and other emotional intelligences will get you there in the end in terms of success.

By all means encourage her to do the VCE... but maybe focus on helping her to resolve any issues (as a foundation to success) before wondering how to get her results up. Some kids can get good results no matter what is going on in their lives, but from my experience, that's a rare kid.

It's great she has you on her side. My parents were both oblivious to my school life. My mother washed her hands of me after grade 4 wheh she realised she couldn't drill my times-tables into my head.... and my Dad just had his own life. My best friend made sure I got into uni by pressuring me to apply and go to the interview. Your SD is very lucky :)

It sounds like she is doing a VCE subject in year 10?
Both my DD's did this with one not doing that well. She also didn't have a clue what she wanted to do after she left school and is now at Uni 5 years after finishing VCE.
It is open week at the Uni so it might be helpful to have a look at them to see if there is something she might be interested in. This will also help her do the right subject as some courses need certain subjects to get into. Some sort of English is a must then the others are picked from the areas you think you will need to get into Uni.
It's a very daunting time both for student and parent/carer having to pick subjects to get into Uni a few years down the track.
After talking to her about what she thinks she would like to do talk to the careers person at the school as they are usually more in touch with what is needed for Uni.

These are just some of the things we did so I hope these ramblings help :)

It's funny, DD has gotten a D before and been happy about it. Cos its a PASS after all :rolleyes:

She does know what she wants to do after VCE and that does make it easier for me (!) when it comes to the guidance part of it...
There will be a few different open days coming up, you might like to go together and see what takes her fancy?
It might be good for clarity and inspiration, but you are right - at only 16 its pretty hard to know what you want to do. She might think about doing several DIFFERENT things, but that's ok, it just means to keep her subject selection pretty broad for yr 11.

I'd try to keep her there, average marks aren't bad marks and it's a big scary world.

We have the deal that I will support my DD through Uni (staying at home etc), low board etc, if she wants to leave school the rent goes up and she doesn't get school holidays. Oooh that sounds like blackmail doesn't it :lol:
But it's not - just the way it will be in the real world....

Is a D a pass down there? It isn't here, poor QLD kids. :lol:

Hardly any kids know what they want to do when they have to choose their senior subjects.
School has to be a little bit fun so even if she wants to do engineering or the like, encourage her to choose at least one 'bludge' subject. By that I just mean something she really enjoys and will find a bit easier than advanced maths and physics. :p I teach maths and science but really hate it when students are told they 'have' to do all maths and science to get a good uni entrance score. It just isn't true, and makes yr 11 and 12 difficult and stressful.

Yeah, it's a JUST pass at school - a grrrr at my house!

Her marks now are basically no indication of how high an ENTER she will get - AT ALL.

The only guage you have is her work ethic and her class attendance - because ultimately it is her attitude not her previous marks, that will determine her committment to the studies she is about to undertake.

WRT to her marks in her VCE Biol - the way the ENTER score is calculated takes int account a specific number of unit marks - ie - to gain a VCE you need only to have16 (in my day) units (1 + 2 and 3 + 4) So if she has this extra subject in year 10, and still completes 6 subjects next year and 5 in year 12, she will have the pick from the BEST scores of all her units.
That's not very clear lol. Essentially, if she passes all her other subjects (attains an S) then the results from Biol may not be needed to make up the aggregate that is the ENTER score.

Sit down with her and assess which subjects she wants to do, pull oput the VCE course guide from VTAC and work out what uni course she is interested in , its pre-req's and ENTERS - remember - the higher the ENTER doesnt necessarily = better courses, arts subjects often have more emphasis on interview and portfolio to get into uni.

HTH

I think I should have worded my question a bit differently. I'm not overly concerned about her school performance nor about her lack of direction. She has many great qualities and while she could do much better at school than she currently is, I have some strategies for encouraging her and I think things will work themselves out in the end. She's the sort of kid who will find her way and TBH after getting here as someone who didn't attend school, had taken drugs and was being taken off for weekly drug and alcohol tests, whose boyfriend was a drug dealer and who was very close herself to being put in juvenile detention ... I think she's doing pretty well and keeping her safe and out of trouble matters much to me than her being a stellar student.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm used to grades A-E being given throughout high school. That makes it pretty easy to tell how you're child is tracking. These days they're only given a Satisfactory or Not Satisfactory until they do a VCE subject and then it's A-E.

So Satisfactory or Not Satisfactory doesn't allow me to gauge very well whether she's in the top bit of Satisfactory (As and Bs equivalent) or the average/below average (Ds and Es). My interpretation from having looked at her report and taking into account the only A-E score she got (ie. the D) is that she's doing averagely. That's really all I'm after - help interpreting her results so that we have a realistic view of how she's going. I mean, look, I know that she's not going to get into medicine/law etc. that's commonsense but, not having been through the Australian school system, I had no idea whether average VCE results would get her into uni. Nor am I hellbent on getting her into uni, if that makes sense, I just don't want her to be thinking for the next two years that she's going to uni if she's way off the grade. It's really about giving her a realistic view of how she's going so SHE can understand what's going to be required of her. I think looking up the average VCE score (53.9) has helped me get a handle on it - that would basically mean that she would struggle to get into a lot of Melbourne-based unis and TBH that might be the greatest motivator I could ever use. If she knows that she might have to look at going to a regional uni, I think we might see a significant extra effort being put in. She won't be keen to leave the bright lights of Melbourne!

How does everyone else work out how their non-VCE child is doing? How d'you tell from the report? Or d'you base it more on what the teachers say?

So far her report - which continually says she doesn't keep up with her homework :rolleyes:.

Talking to the teachers is still a good idea if you can swing it. Thats how I learnt that DD German teacher actually WAS a total biartch...and her maths teacher was quite a kind and helpful man...

I reckon talking to the teachers is the way to go even if it takes a while to organise, as you'd hope they'd have a good idea.
From my understanding, A levels are significantly tougher than VCE exams.

Gee, I was annoyed when we stopped putting plus and minus on the report cards. How can the parents possibly know how well they are really doing if it is just S or U on the report?
Sounds like you will have to speak to the teachers if you want details on her progress. Make sure you call either before or just after school or during lunch breaks so you are most likely to catch them, otherwise ask when that specific teacher has their spare lessons and call then. In my experience, as long as you aren't calling to abuse them about something then most teachers are happy to talk to you. :p
Do you know if there is a year level coordinator? Sometimes parents can just contact them and they can get all the teachers to give them the info you are after and get it to you.

Yep, it's a little frustrating because I don't go to the parent/teacher nights. I feel a little like that's overstepping the step-parenting boundaries - like I'm checking up on her, if that makes sense. So DP goes on his own. The teachers basically tell him that she's capable of good work but is easily distracted. Basically when she hands homework in, she does good/very good and when she doesn't, she does poorly. Not rocket science!!!

As I said, I've got a few things up my sleeve for encouraging/supporting her with the schoolwork side of things but I think she really needs a simple explanation of how she's going and I don't think the school is giving that to her. I've tried explaining the ENTER thing with a gymnastics analogy (she does gymnastics) - if you choose to do a vault with a triple pike and double somersault then that's a hard vault and even if you don't get it quite right you'll get a higher score than someone who attempts an easy-peasy vault but does it perfectly. Anyhow, I'm getting off-track - what I'm saying is that I think she's confuddled about the ENTER thing and I don't think she has any idea about what sort of ENTER score she's likely to get if she carries on with mediocre grades.

D'you think it would be accurate to say to her that if she gets Ds in all subjects, like she's currently doing in Biology, that she will find it very tough to get into any uni course? And that to be safe and to be able to keep her options open, she really needs to be aiming to lift her grades to more like a B for a 70 - 75ish ENTER?

I don't trust the school to be able to convey this to her simply in language she will understand which is why I'm trying to do it myself!

That (TER explanation) sort of makes sense in a very basic form. It changes from year to year as it depends what everyone else gets. When I did VCE, I got 87 with a B+ average.
I would say it anyway as motivation for her. Even look up the TER scores for the areas she thinks she may like to study and talk to the teachers (DH can do it) about what sort of grades shes looking at to get in to that sort of course