Why does my 2 yo play SO ROUGH with other children?

My DD is getting progressively worse when it comes to her temper tantrums and playing with other children. She pushes, pulls, screams and throws herself dramatically to the floor if a toy she wants another child has. She will sulk around with a sullen face if I tell her off. I have been told this is normal behaviour for a toddler, but is it really? Is it normal for a toddler to hurt other children who are playing nicely? It makes me sad and embarrassed, its to the point where I dread mothers group or going to a friends place, for fear that my DD will turn into the bully child. What can I do, I am seriously at my wits end with her angry behaviour??? HELP

I just wanted to say I feel your pain. I jsut posted in the plat sect about this same issue (as well as the way I am treated about it!!)

I knowi t is normal, but it makes you feel bad doesn't it??!!

Yes it does, it makes me look like a mum with an out of control undisciplined child & that I dont care. While the truth is of course I care 100% & I discipline her, but to an extent, how do you discipline a 2 yr old who doesnt speak much or who doesnt seem to understand why she is in trouble? Apart from that she is a very spirited child, she doesnt need me to dote on her, as she is so independent. Some people see this as a bad thing. I am at my wits end with it, I love her to bits but I sometimes wish she could be more like other children, how terrible does that sound :(

Temper tantrums is just normal to toddlers but you should show him that what he did is wrong like you let him face the wall for 30 minutes after he acted that wrong behavior. This is how I disciplined my 2 and half year old daughter when she acted the same and it really works.

30 minutes, she wouldnt even stand still for 30 seconds. I use the time out method but it seems like every 5 minutes she is in time out. Its beyond a joke now

how our kids act is often a mirror image of how we act, perhaps she is seeing you as being a bully for putting her in T/O regularly. so she sees when she is a=in a positon with others the way to get what she wants is to be aggressive..
perhaps looking at other ways of dealing with her tantrums at home will help her to deal with situations out of the house..

I know my children often mirror my less desirable personality traits

I dont really have any advice but what Doudou said makes sense. Personally I wouldn't be standing her facing a wall for 30 min, thats a really long time. Does distraction work?

Good point, I am just wondering how else I can teach her that this behaviour is wrong, without smacking etc. Time out seemed to be the best option, I over eggagerate as I dont use it often come to think of it. I really only see this rough behaviour when she is around other children. I wonder if its something she has learnt through childcare. Sorry just grasping at anything here.

Oz - No me either, 30 mins is way too long. Supernanny says 2 mins for a 2 yr old. Distraction works but I am forever distracting!!!

I'm pretty sure even the most tough baby trainers only suggest a minute per year in age in time out.

I did a Triple P positive parenting course which suggested a minute per age as well.

MadsMum I find it completely normal for them to go through these phases. I generally ignore bad behaviour unless its hurting someone else, and then praise and praise when they play well with other kids, even to a point where they get a reward and heaps of attention when they do play well and happily. If they do hurt another child, I get down to their level and say "Ouch! It hurts when you xxx, you wouldn't like it if someone xxx you would you? You need to say sorry right now!" and then I move to another play thing and involve them in something else. It is HARD work, but it is effective and pays off in the long term, teaching them how to play is very important.

30 mins? is that a joke? i couldn't make my dh stand quiet against a wall for 30 mins, let alone a 2 yo!

hugs H xoxo

30 minutes is comepletely ridiculous and really wouldn't work. You would end up with a frightened and understimulated child.

With the roughness, you can fight like with like, but maybe not the way you imagine. Get her dad to have some more rough play with her (you can do it too) where you rumble, tickle, turn upside down etc. This will help her to learn about the limits associated with being rough, and when it's time to stop.

When she's upset about something, label her feelings for her, let her know that it's OK to feel that way, and give her some alternatives for her behaviour, e.g. "I can see that you're feeling sad/angry. When I feel sad/angry, sometimes I stamp my feet/squash some playdough/kick a ball/whatever"

When she wants something from another child, calmly tell her "X is playing with that right now. Maybe when she's finished you'll be able to have a turn." The distract.

Distraction is a great technique, especially if she's emotional. Be blatant if you have to "Hey, where did that dog come from?" and then when she looks, a quick "Oh, no, it's gone now." Not for overuse!

If she does hurt someone, get her to focus on the consequences of her action, e.g. "It hurts Jackson when you hit. That has made him very sad. I'd like you to sit here with him until he feels OK" If she is being rough but not hurting, say "Just touch gently. Show me gentle touching." Physically assist her to gently stroke the other child's arm gently so that she understands the term.
I personally don't like "sorry" at 2. They don't get it, and it leads them to think that sorry makes it OK, so will whack, say sorry instantly, run away, only to whack again later. If they are removed from play, and follow up on the consequences of the other child, it also helps to develop empathy and an understanding of emotions.

If you have mroe examples of behaviour, I can give more example responses.

Good luck!

Hi MM - perhaps you could do some role playing with dh and M. Play with toys and act out what to do when someone has a toy that you want - in this case your dh.
Have you spoken to her teachers at Daycare? Does she do the same thing there? I would say that she would definitely witness that kind of behaviour there.
This Mummy job definitely keeps us busy hey :)

30 minutes facing a wall is verging on child abuse! I wouldn't even do that to a child at primary school.

I too am the mother of "that child" (you know the one always hitting etc) I have actually modified DS's diet as per the list of additives and preservatives NOT to eat on the Failsafe website and have found that it made an enormous difference. I sure it won't work for everyone but its amazing the difference it has made to Riley so maybe give it a go.

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30 minutes facing a wall is verging on child abuse! I wouldn't even do that to a child at primary school.

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hmm i was thinking the same thing.

MM- i could have written your post word for word. Lu is always the roughest, she snatches toys, says "no, don't! Go away" If she wants it and another kid has it. I too get really embarrassed. I try distraction, i try explaining, i try timeout, i try everything. It has really been getting me down lately, i felt like it was a reflection on my parenting. But the truth is, i have come to realise, that she is a very strong willed, independent, spirited if you like, almost 2 year old. Just this week i have come to terms with it a little more and have gone more for the avoid approach. Not avoid the situation, but try and foresee an incident approaching and and avoid it. Then lots of praise when she is okaying well and sharing.

I have also told her that if she doesn't play nicely we'll have to go home. (i am still to decided if this a good tactic or not, happy to take constructive criticism from you wise ladies. ;) )I don't know about M, but Lu definitely understands this. And i followed through the other day and took her home when she kept taking all the toys off the kids and pushing. She has been a lot better the last couple of days, not sure if it a co-incidence, or if this phase is passing.

I don't have any answers, except to tell you that you're not alone, and i do think for some toddlers it is a normal phase. Let just hope it doesn't last too long, it's wearing me down.

My DS1 is the same. Sometimes I just feel like the most useless mum in the world. It actually makes me happy when other children throw tantrums in public... it makes me feel like I am not alone. ;)
Try not to get mad if she hasn't actually hurt anyone, simply encourage more gentle play. Don't threaten her with anything you don't intend to follow through with... if you say you will take her home then you need to take her home when it happens again. Definietly lots of praise when she plays nicely!
I have found that it doesn't work if I suggest that DS plays with something, like 'why don't you play with the trains instead?'. I have to actually shove something I know he likes in his face and get him playing with it.
Snugglybean's advice was really good. I am still not sure whether DS really understands what sorry means, I found it much more helpful to sit them down with the child they have hurt and make sure they are ok. Try to make it very clear what it was that they did wrong and why without yelling or smacking. They understand much better if they can see how upset the other child is rather than just being punished.

Falguni - the only thing with threatening to leave is that it can always backfire on you ;) I've used it before and had to leave when I didn't want too because I had threatened M with it. Because you always have to follow through with one of those threats.

You could have something that you use when out. Like piece of fabric they have to sit on for a minute or so in order to take them away from the activity. Generally at 2 years of age they can't remember enough to use stickers for good behaviour, or something like that but you can remember to reward them everytime they are quiet and playing nicely how wonderful they are.

Sometimes you do have to play the leaving card... because otherwise your whole time will be a fight. Whatever you can handle as a mummy on that day.

I too think that kids learn so much from childcare. Some of it is really good (e.g. my DD has learned counting - I didn't think to count with her until she started doing it at home! Now it is one of her favourite 'games' to do in the car.) They learn weird stuff (e.g. DD started growling one day. Apparently she trails after the older boys at CC and they play dinosaurs. She picked up on the 'growl-and-lunge' manouvre and does it at home! Weird.) Plus they learn some negative stuff too (e.g. DD occasionally pushes me and tells me to "move away". I never say this to her, neither does DH, so it has to have been another kid.)
Now, having said that, I think some kids are just more spirited and they know what they want and are less shy. It is embarrassing for us parents because we understand social customs. Kids don't.
I'll bet if you take a look around from week to week there wont be one kid there who doesn't act in an antisocial manner at some point (or the entire time). It's how they learn, and we need to try not to expect too much of them. That's not to say that we don't instruct them of the correct way to behave, but please understand its not necessarily a reflection of you, but just a stage in a kid's development. Robin Barker reckons its unrealistic to expect toddlers to play together nicely for any lengthy period of time. With playgroups and such, I wonder if we sometimes put too much pressure on our little ones to be sociable for a long period of time.
Sorry, I know I've waffled! But I really just wanted to reassure you that, yes, antisocial behaviour in a toddler is TOTALLY normal. It is something I have struggled with for the last year. Our struggle at this point in time is more about how she behaves for me than how she behaves around other kids...

Have you tried getting down and showing your child how to play nicely? (I know it sounds obvious but it isn't always) It's something I would often do with the kids that I could see were struggling with shared play (not just my own). It is hard as a toddler who doesn't yet understand or is very reactive when expressing emotion. However it is equally hard for those children around them(as you know and is probably why you are at your wits end). Try role play. Share with teddies, dolls be nice to teddies/dolls etc It really does help. At this age imitation is the best way of teaching when time out and "No" don't work (or even along side). And it doesn't reflect badly on you as a mother so please don't think that. Every child learns differently and responds differently, just because a child lashes out doesn't mean they are bad or should be punished in most cases they are often the children who need more nurturing as thats their way of showing they aren't coping in social situations as well as others are. And thats not to say that your child has a problem either, just that why help a child that obviously doesn't need it, a child that isn't understanding their own emotions or how to express them needs help. As do we all at one point or another. I went through this with my DS and sometimes still do. We've recently started hitting a pillow or throwing a pillow instead of throwing toys (as he would often go to his room and trash it when he got upset or didn't get his way) the pillow he can't hurt himself or his toys he can. And after he has calmed down he comes and sits with me and we talk through (he's 3 so easier to communicate with obviously) how he feels and why and what we can do to help him and help me. This gives him an outlet that is safe whilst he learns to express his emotions, and eventually hitting the pillow will be a thing of the past because he will have learnt how to express what he needs to with words.

My son is just growing out of this - it does happen!!!

Couple of questions:

* is she talking?
* is she communicating in other ways?
* is there something that she really, really loves?


When Pip got more words, his playing nasty reduced quite significantly.

In the meantime, I worked with the CCC with some strategies. All the children (and Pip) were taught to say "Stop! I don't like it!" and to leave that person alone. It really was something to work with everyone. Also using the Hand (stop) sign to stop the behaviour. That's really worked too.

When he started being obsessed with his Thomas train & track, we thought we'd withhold Thomas if he wasn't good. But attention span of a 2-year old isn't great. So we draw a picture of a train on a whiteboard next to his name, and tell him that if he's a good boy and the train is there when we pick him up, then he gets to play. And the first couple of times we would explain what being "good" was - no biting, hitting or thumping allowed.
After he *wasn't* good a few times, and saw the train being wiped off the board, he learnt the consequence. And it's instant, so it's a cause & effect thing.

I hope some of this helps - it's a horrid thing, and I cried more than a few times, specially when some of the other mums would say "its hard when your child screams cause they get picked on" and studiously ignore me.

Hope it settles soon. Keep to the mantra "this soon will pass"

WOW thanks everyone for your great responses full of usefull information for me. I've been so down about this all day, I keep thinking somewhere I've gone wrong with her but maybe not. & yes 30 mins is way too long & over the top, & you'd be hard pressed to find a toddler who would stay put that long lol.

Falguni - Your post made me all teary. L & M sound exactly the same. M is also a strong willed little girl like L. Its just their nature & most mums sadly tend to compare her to the more placid children (which is everyone compared to M lol). Its so hard for us as mums & it makes me feel terrible. As for the 'we are going', yes I think that would actually work with M. Sucks though for us, I like getting out & having a chat with other mums, mind you its not so much fun when everyone is looking down on your child & parenting skills.

Rogue - Thanks for your input, I think I could definately get down with her more & model good play. I do show her how to care for her dollies, patting them & kissing & generally being kind etc, but I will make sure I do more.

SB - Thanks for that massive essay you just wrote for me lol. Full of handy information. Thanks so much, I've taken it all in. Yes distraction usually works wonders.

mrsmac - The diet info is interesting, I will look into it.

Christy - Thank you, I will give your ideas a go. I dont think that I really explain it to her well enough, I think its probably alot of my fault so I will work on explaining it to her more & why it hurt etc etc.

Thanks to everyone else, you've made me feel much better & given some great advice. Had such a bad day, I'm so glad to know that I'm not the only mum in this situation.

Gosh there's some good mummies in here...

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We've recently started hitting a pillow or throwing a pillow instead of throwing toys

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I was actually coming back to suggest similar ideas. It's really good for kids to have other ways to get out their anger - like dinosaur stomping, or kicking a ball, or pushing swings/toypram, or hammering, or pounding dough (use playdough or bake bread!) At work we actually have a punching bag.
Also, explicit demonstrations for items are good, e.g. "It's not safe to throw trains. Trains belong on the track. Throwing could break the train." For some reason, focusing on breaking toys (rather than hurting self or others) seems to work more. It must be to do with moral devt at that stage. I've never really worked it out though.

Maybe it's their star sign MM?? :lol: i totally understand, if it's making your playdates not enjoyable then going home is often a better option..... i guess the idea is that you don't have to always go, she'll hopefully stop the behavior when you say it!

A lot of you have reiterated that kids learn from imitating at this age, that's what contributes most to my embarrassment. She is not in child care so people must presume i must tell her to 'go away' but i can tell you i have never said that to her. But i know people think i do. :redface:

When i say i am using the avoid approach, that involves me sitting and playing (moderating ;) ) with the kids while the mum's are generally chatting amongst themselves. I don't mind, i would rather that, than she hurt someone. But it's not very relaxing or easy to make friends in a new town when you're hanging with the kids all the time. :p

Christy i know i have to follow through, and have only said it if i was actually going to, but sometimes i am almost looking for an escape because i am embarrassed!

i think i need to do more of the sitting with the hurt kid thing, give her more an understanding of her actions and their consequences..... thanks for that tip ladies. :)


Sorry to hijack MM, just want you to know you're not alone!

Snugglybean - I love your response! I tried to give you some rep points but apparently I have to share the love! :rofl: You must be full of wisdom at the moment that I'm tapping into! :D

Goodluck with this MM. I see a mum at playgroup with a little boy like this and she tries so hard and models behaviour and I can see that she gets embarrassed but is trying her best to be a good mummy. It must be hard!

I'm saving up all these suggestions as my 5 month old DD is already showing that she has a bit of a temper - comes out when I try to take away her empty butter container in the bath!!

The girls have given you some great advice. I just want to give you a massive :hug:. I know exactly where you are coming from as I have a bully 2 year old DD as well and completely understand how you are feeling. It is so embarrassing and frustrating. Good luck with which ever way you choose to go.

do you have Foxtel? Suppernanny is amazing!! I am arming myself with a big wepons ceche for the future if I should have to deal with a similar situation.

Rustygirl - YES I do have foxtel and I am loving supernanny. Just about to watch a taped episode now. Love her tips she is fantastic.

Falguni - No not at all, I am so happy that I am not the only one, as horrible as that sounds. I know what you mean about feeling embarrassed that people think you must treat L that way at home. I know you are not that kind of person, I'm sure other people who know you in person can see that too. I too definately dont treat M this way at home. I know daycare must have a huge impact on her though. Its so hard as well because I think its sometimes just in their nature, L sounds like M with being a miss independent, no one can help her & everything is 'mine'. So dont worry I know how you feel & I'm glad you spoke up because maybe now we can swap ideas/stories in our belly buddies hehe.

SB - You are a champ, full of beans on this subject arent you?! Thanks so much really appreciate your tips.

Kazbah - She has a few words, but no she isnt really talking, as in stringing together sentences. She also isnt yet able to really tell me how she is feeling/what she needs. I think sometimes this is why she gets frustrated and I am hoping as the language comes it will all get easier. The 2 year old we played with today has very good language skills and she is able to tell her mum what she wants, and due to that she rarely reaches temper tantrum stage iykwim. Bring on the talking!!!!!

Thanks girls for all the support, its so darn hard. I am just saddened that my DD is being labelled the 'bully child' & that people think I cant handle her.

Falguni, I too only ever make promises I have to keep. And if that means I miss out on coffee with friends so be it. My primary job is to teach my child all that my child needs to learn I come second because this time of learning lasts for such a short time. However if I'm somewhere I can't leave (can't think I've ever been in that position) then I don't make that threat LOL!

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My DD is getting progressively worse when it comes to her temper tantrums and playing with other children. She pushes, pulls, screams and throws herself dramatically to the floor if a toy she wants another child has. She will sulk around with a sullen face if I tell her off. I have been told this is normal behaviour for a toddler, but is it really? Is it normal for a toddler to hurt other children who are playing nicely? It makes me sad and embarrassed, its to the point where I dread mothers group or going to a friends place, for fear that my DD will turn into the bully child. What can I do, I am seriously at my wits end with her angry behaviour??? HELP

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You have just described my 17 month old. I'm going to subscibe to this thread.

Madsmum, I think you are probably right to assume that language has alot to do with the rough play. I am going to guess that your DD is quite advanced with her motor skills too. My DS is very big compared to a lot of other kids his age and is very physically capable so has often prefered to play with the older kids who can communicate better than him. As a result he has wants to show how good he is at other things... like pushing and climbing and jumping. Recently, as he has started to talk more, he has started to play better, especially with girls. Earlier this week I was very pleased to see him just tag a friends daughter while playing chasey, rather than shove her on the ground when her caught her. :lol: We are getting there. You will too. :)

I really would like to think that other mothers haven't labelled your daughter, though it hard not to feel like they have. I can always see the frustration on mum's faces when their child is doing something naughty... i know it isn't what they model at home. Keep your head up!

Berrme - Thats a good point because yes she does have great motor skills, she is the child climbing all over the play equipment like a little daredevil while the other mums look on in horror lol. I am glad to hear that your DS has improved with language, thats what I'm hoping for too & it makes sense doesnt it? Thanks heaps for your input

Went to toddler gym today and DD played so well with the other children. Had a couple of temper tantrums but nothing that we couldnt get past. I praised & praised her 'nice gentle playing' with her friends. Also this arvo I am planning on doing some role play with the dollies to demo nice play.

MM:
1. You are a fabulous mummy. I know this from reading how you are with M and how much you care for her and even the fact you are so concerned about this. Dont ever let something like this make you feel like a bad mum
2. I am sure this is normal - she has excellent gross motor skills and wants to try them out. she cant express herself yet so she is frustrated. she is a toddler... all valid reasons for her to be how she is at the moment
3. I am sure this wont last - it isnt her personality or temperament - it is a stage she is going trhough as she learns - and you are doing a great job at teaching her how to be...
4.Dont feel that others judge you, or dont let them judge you, we all worry about diff things with our kids. For example, Noah is not like this at all - he is v verbal and not v physical. if i was out with you and didnt know you i woudl prob be sitting there wishing N had a bit more oomph to him physically like M. so i;d be so caught up in my own dialogue about my own child to be judging you! and we all have our little 'sensitive points' with our kids if we are honest...

You are a terrific mum - you are aware what you need to work on with her and are doing so! be kind to youself.

ps hope all that made sense! xxx

Well said pap - i totally agree - she is a great Mummy :)

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MM:
1. You are a fabulous mummy. I know this from reading how you are with M and how much you care for her and even the fact you are so concerned about this. Dont ever let something like this make you feel like a bad mum
2. I am sure this is normal - she has excellent gross motor skills and wants to try them out. she cant express herself yet so she is frustrated. she is a toddler... all valid reasons for her to be how she is at the moment
3. I am sure this wont last - it isnt her personality or temperament - it is a stage she is going trhough as she learns - and you are doing a great job at teaching her how to be...
4.Dont feel that others judge you, or dont let them judge you, we all worry about diff things with our kids. For example, Noah is not like this at all - he is v verbal and not v physical. if i was out with you and didnt know you i woudl prob be sitting there wishing N had a bit more oomph to him physically like M. so i;d be so caught up in my own dialogue about my own child to be judging you! and we all have our little 'sensitive points' with our kids if we are honest...

You are a terrific mum - you are aware what you need to work on with her and are doing so! be kind to youself.

ps hope all that made sense! xxx

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Couldn't have said it better!!! Well done!
I really agree with "don't let others judge you" After all the only way they CAN judge you is if you let them!!!

Ohhhh PAP thanks SO MUCH!!! I know what you mean, I've had a whinge to DH on more than a few occassions saying I wish M was more chilled and placid like other children, to which he says the other childs parents are probably wishing their child is more like M. You cant win! They are all so different. Its just hard when other mums dont understand as they are so used to their quieter child iykwim.

Thanks Jazmum, I must say I think you are a great mum too. I love all your pics of the girls, they are always having fun & you look like such a fun mum yourself.

Had a play at the park today & again M was so good with the other kids. I think also it comes down to what mood she's in.

Thanks all for your valuable input!

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Maybe it's their star sign MM?? :lol:

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ha ha ha! i was thinking similar things LOL! leila has the 'reputation' at MG of being the ring leader... setting all the other kids on a path of bad behaviour. all the other mums think it's funny to say that....i dont. ah well.

leila tends to get into barmy's all the time. she snatches, and yanks and yells, 'no, stop it', or 'go away' etc. it aint pretty but i dunno, fairly lucky that our group is fairly laidback so they dont totally freak out when the kids have a freakout ITMS. my strategies thus far are to either:

A) if it isnt that bad and looks like they can resolve it themselves i leave it to them...sometimes with a quiet 'play nicely' or 'no snatching Leila'. i do this from my seat or wherever i am standing and i try to make eyecontact. this way they can work it out for themselves but know that there is back up if need be ITMS.

B) if it is beyond simple confrontation (ie snatching/physicalisation) then i tend to intervene (if it is my daughter causing the havoc...if it is another child i wait for the other mum to intervene...and if they dont i just quietly remove DD from the situation). usually this means i use distraction by getting down on their level and talking in a calm 'happy' voice to try and find alternative toys to play with.

C) if DD is determined to be forceful and wont listen to me and sees through my distraction i remove her and tell her rather because she wasnt playing nice she can sit on my lap for a bit. sometimes that time on my lap (like even 30 secs) is enough for her to refocus...

some weeks are going to be doozers no matter what. usually when DD is tired or getting unwell...and on those weeks we keep the visit to MG short and sweet. i get bummed that i miss out on the contact, but then again dealing with an angry toddler is far worse imo LOL!...especially when they take to spraying the walls of the cafe with sugar (sorry tom!) :rolleyes:

great strategies Clare!!!! Both L and M are such gorgeous characters - may not alwaysfeel that way to you guys but I see it from here. YOu are bothbringing up gorgeous girls and doing a fab job of it. xxx