Can I do this? Is this mean?

I need your professional help ladies!

We have arriving on Tuesday a very beautiful chocolate & white Border Collie pup named Banjo.

We have been on a waiting list for 6 months for a pup from this breeder & he is a very much planned for & much wanted family pet.

But, here is the deal, we plan on taking him everywhere with us that is possible, but of course, there are time when he is going to be left home alone (albeit these will probably only be a couple of hours at MOST & probably only happen 2 - 3 times per week, you know - swimming lessons, Kindergym, etc...). So, for these occassions when he is going to be left, I was planning on putting him into the playpen/exercise pen that we have for our bunnies.

It's actually a big hexagonal play pen (prob a little bit bigger than the baby playpens they sell in the baby stores), big enough for my 2 girls to get in there & freely run around chasing the bunnies in & it comes up to about the top of my leg, so I know that it won't be long until he figures out to how to jump over it - being the smart cookie he is going to be! ;)

I would of course have it under shelter, have fresh water available, all the works, but my SIL told me she thinks it's illegal by RSPCA standards to do this? & that she thinks I am being mean to the pup, that he should have ownership of the entire back yard?

I'm only planning on doing it for his own safety & it will only be until he learns which are his toys & which are human toys - you know, outdoor furniture, sprinklers & that kind of thing, & then of course once he realises he can jump over the top - that will be history anyway.

IMO he needs to learn rules & boundaries of what he can do - like shred his toys & what he can't do - like chew my outdoor setting. All the smaller things, like the kids bikes & things are going to be placed up on the ledge of our barbecue so he can't get to them, until he knows what are his things & what are ours.

I'm definitely not doing it to keep him confined, he NEEDS to be able to run around the entire back garden but while he is a pup I was going to put him in the playpen while we went out, so that he is safe & our belongings are safe.

Any help would be appreciated!

Do you think this is mean? Or would the RSPCA not be happy with this?

Cheers,

Jayne xx

There's actually a well documented training technique used with pups called "crate training" which is highly effective. If you look into it, you'll start using your play pen a lot more ;)

Its not mean, in fact if you do it correctly, you can see that they will respond a lot better in obedience and house training.

Of course it doesn't mean they are in there all day, but that they learn how to be left alone in their space. I used crate training with my lab when she was a puppy while I was studying dog behaviour and it was awesome.

A friend of mine had a play pen inside for her dashund when a puppy as she didnt want her outside as was so tiny would get cold or get through any tiny gap. She put her in here when she went to work.

In play pen she had toys, water, biscuits, bed, newspaper.

I think that you're being a very responsible person to plan for this! It's what I've done with all my dogs, and most people do it with theirs. The alternative is to crate-train the puppy which would be even less room for him.

So no, I don't think its cruel and I can't see the RSPCA having a problem with it. Although beware, our lab didn't even last a minute in the playpen until she worked out how to escape it!

It sounds like a reasonable enough idea to me, but then I've had to to to the extreme of putting one of those shock collars on my Jack Russell to stop her barking her head off at *everybody* that walks along our fence. So, I'm no expert. But I don't think putting a pup in a large playpen for a little while as part of training etc is going to hurt it :)
Enjoy your new pet!! :)

When my cavalier king charles spaniel was a puppy we left her in the house while we went out and found that she was very overwhelmed by the space. She actually preferred to be confined to a smaller space when we went out and left her - I think she was less scared. She was our second dog so it was convincing our older cavvy that being in a fenced off area was okay when he had been used to having rule of the house when we were out.

Cavvies are a bit smaller than border collies, but I imagine that puppies are all the same and like the security so a small space that is his might be very helpful to him feeling okay about you leaving him.

Here is a link to the RSPCA website with a heap of fact sheets about puppies. RSPCA Australia knowledgebase / Puppies If you look at the one called 'What should I do when I bring a new puppy home?' there are some suggestions for things you can do to get your puppy used to you leaving them at home on their own. Hope that helps.

Enjoy your new puppy!

I think its fine, although i don't know what the law is but its better than him escaping your backyard and getting run over.

Whenever we had puppies my mum kept them in the laundry with their bed, toys, food and water. They normally just slept.

sounds fine. as you say it's not like he's going to be left in there all the time. and he will probably be quite comfortable in there, a big bacyard can be quite overwhelming for a little puppy. i think thr rspca have a lot more to worry about than that, which i think would be a non-issue anyway as he won't be in there 24/7 and will have shelter and water. i wouldn't worry hun, just enjoy your new addition, he sounds gorgeous!

Sounds like a good plan to me Jayne! It sounds as thought you've thought it through well, don't worry about what your SIL says ;). Crate training has lots of benefits, which you can always research and tell her about :lol:.

Have you done any obedience training before? I ask only because I hadn't when we got our puppy, so I went to a training school and it was the best thing I could have done. We ended up staying there for over a year, and going through a few levels, because I could see how good it was for our dog (for socialisation too), and because I learnt so, so much. I only stopped when I was pg with DS and too sick to go anymore. DH grew up around lots and lots of dogs and puppies (his parents bred them), but he found it very useful too, once we got past the beginner stages. I would really recommend it to anyone getting a puppy, particularly if you have kids :). Our dog would have ended up walking all over me had we not done it, and as a result probably ended up thinking she ruled the kids in the household too. She certainly knows her place now though!

How exciting Jayne, I can't wait to hear all about Banjo!

I used a dogie pen, kind of sounds the same. I was advised to by my vet to use it while they are pups. Helps with training. He said they like it.

With my first doggie we used it more and she is perfect!! The second one we didnt use it as much and well she doesnt listen.. lol Might have to do with it being hubbies dog. lmao

Eng funny you say 1st dog is better than 2nd as our 2nd doesn't listen!!

When ours were pups they were locked in laundry when we were not home and were happy in there.

Thank you so much ladies. I felt very, very, very responsible about this idea but then SIL went & shot me down.

This is my second dog actually. Very miserable experiece with our first dog, which is why this dog has been planned to the enth degree & has caused so much deliberating, anxiety, etc... etc...

Basically our last dog - Rhodesian Ridgeback - bit Jessica's face when she was 11 months old. I did the most awful thing I have done in my life & that was have her put to sleep. I just had to do it, I couldn't live with myself keeping her here in case she did it again, but worse (she had bitten a couple of strangers before, but that was provoked on their parts, once she bit 'one of us' I couldn't chance it happening again). Also, my vet advised they weren't allowed to rehome as she had a history or biting other people & also children.

So all that aside, I am try as best I can to make this experience a much better one & I am trying to act as though this is my first dog.

But JANIE in response to you, YES YES YES obedience is going to be a 'must' for Banjo. I did it with our previous dog (Poppie) & we earned a CD title I think? She was very good at obdedience & I loved going there, but same story with you, I got pregnant & stopped going. I also plan on doing the agility & time trial agility with Banjo. This part is more for MY fitness as I have to fly around the course with him. Do you wanna know my mantra??? 'Banjo is going to make me skinny' :rofl:

You sound like a very responsible dog owner that knows what they're doing. Your SIL must have just been being a SIL!! What you are going to do sounds fine to me! Although is there anyway to maybe drag some of the playpen onto the grass rather than have any wee and poop on bricks? (assuming it's under a paved patio here - just invisaging my house in Perth!)

I kept my OES inside when he was little while I went out to work....I confined him into 1 room and as he got older, I just extended the space so he had free run of the house. He would sleep most of the day away I think.

I show my dog and know how much fun doing activities with dogs can be (although I stopped showing when I got preg...notice a theme happening here!). My sister shows him now and he's living with my Mum while I'm in Singapore, which I'm devastated about!!

I love hearing stories of responsible dog owners that know what they're doing and research what they want. You just know that they will be going into a fantastic home. Good on you and have loads of fun with Banjo :)

Just stopping by to say I agree that you're being very responsible and organised - sounds like Banjo's going to have a wonderful life as part of your family!

And remember, dogs sleep most of the time when you're out. So as long as you give him lots of love and attention (inside, preferably) when you're home, and a long walk each day, he'll be fine.

As the owner of a border collie I think this is a really good idea. As a pup our collie used to eat the reticulation, plants, outdoor furniture etc, when we were out even though he got a lot of attention when we were home plus a long walk each day. Eventually they learn what they can and can't chew so this is a good way to preserve everything in your backyard! Our outdoor setting still has chew holes in it...

And obedience training is a definite for border collies. He will love it and so will you!

Thanks so much guys, I feel so much better now & I forgot to mention that the playpen is on the grass, but under the eave of the house, so it's in sun & shade. I can move it around accordingly, but I didn't fancy hosing doggy-do's off the paving either! ;)

Well he arrives tomorrow night & I'm soooooooo excited. I just put the mat down in the back of the wagon for him & I got him a car harness thingy so he doesn't trip over or jump over the seats while I'm driving & land on the girls or anything.

I may sound a bit OCD, but I really, really, really want to get this 'right'!

I'll let you know how beautiful he is when he gets here, but his pictures tell me he is a total spunk rat! The girl doggies at puppy school will have to be chased away! :lol:

Jayne

PS _ YES! I'm starting to think SIL was just being a SIL :rolleyes:

I think she may have been making things up - I had never come across this sort of RSPCA guideline (and it's certainly not a law!) when I was more actively volunteering there and reading through their literature (guidelines on treatment of dogs, cats, horses, cows, pigs, ducks, chickens...you name it!!).
If you're doing everything else with the dog, it shouldn't give the dog enough time to realise that destruction is a good way to alleviate boredom! And a dog that isn't resented by its owners is going to live a very happy life :)

Jayne you can tell her that you know someone who has studied dog training and works as a vet nurse, who says "confining a puppy is all good"

In face, what do you think they do at the RSPCA? Do all the dogs roam around? They are in small enclosures and are walked 4 times a day. For 15 minutes at a time.... they are not in big yards or handled much at all.

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In face, what do you think they do at the RSPCA? Do all the dogs roam around? They are in small enclosures and are walked 4 times a day.

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That's what I meant to include in my post! I guess I had late night brain fade ;) I've cleaned enclosures and they are NOT backyard size, even by high-density housing standards!

I am a vet nurse (live in NZ but trained on OZ) and it is by no way wrong to do this it is perfectly fine! Ignore your SIL I would say it is very responsible to keep her confined till she is older as puppies get into everything all the time esp border collies. We have a pug puppy and she is still locked away in the laundry at night at 4 months old. At least I know where she is and that she ownt chew anything and end up poisoned etc.

Sounds like you are going to be great responsible owners

One more thing my mum reminded me of, and I'll use my sister's Weimaraner as an example....My sister took her dog with her everywhere, and when it came to the crunch of being left alone, she didn't know how to be left alone IYKWIM? She wasn't taught to be left for long periods (or even shortish periods) because she went everywhere with her (this dog also destroyed all the retic in the garden and did managed to escape her LOCKED crate). So it's important to not only take your dog with you, but also to teach it that it can be left alone. Good luck, I'd love to see photos!

How exciting - is today Doggie Day????

Just wanted to pop in and say that I think your SIL needs to just keep ill informed opinions to herself. It amazes me how small some peoples minds are when it comes to keeping animals.

FWIW - our dogs are tethered all day when we are not home. They have their kennels, fresh water and food or bones but we live on a farm in a rural area and do not have enclosed yards this is the only way we can have them.

As a city chick I always thought this was very mean, until I moved here and know that a bad decision to let the dogs off unsupervised can result very quickly in not having a beloved pet with us anymore.

Best of luck hun, as a BC owner they really are wonderful wonderful dogs, highly intelligent, good herding instincts and can be very protective. They also are great jumpers so if your keen endurance training things ( you know where they do those circuit things) are great. Ours just loves jumping up onto the hay bails and into the water troughs .

Nae x x

I just wanted to add my bit :)

I have two beautiful chocolate tricoloured border collies (so brown adn fawn and white) and they are the loves of my life. When they were little I would put them in the laundry occasionally when I was going out for a few hours and they would just sleep. I could come home and open the door and they would still be asleep. Now they still love going in there to lay down whenever they get the chance.

Enjoy your Banjo - and yes - if it is anything like my two boys then he will make you very fit!

We have two high-energy Jack Russells (although you wouldn't always know it from the amount of time they spend lying around sleeping) and they are shut in during the day when we are not at home. One of them has an amazing ability to get himself out of fully-fenced backyards (generally under) and it is much more dangerous for him/them to be running around the neighbourhood than to enjoy a few sedate hours lying on the couch. Knowing Border Collies, your pup will probably figure out how to build an extension ladder from the playpen parts and take himself on an excursion! Keeping him safe and secure is very important.

The only proviso on enclosing or limiting a dog's space while you are not at home is ensuring they have plenty of exercise and space at other times.

How exciting that you get your pup this evening!!

I misread one of the previous posts and it made me laugh at how it COULD be read...had to share it:
Put your SiL and her opinions in a pen!!
Could she be jealous that you're getting a dog?
I have a GF who wants a puppy when she get back from an OS trip but doesn't want to put fences up and has looked into an 'invisible' fence (a nice way of saying 'electric shock collar') and said the sales person (or wherever she got the info) said it was a very low shock so that it wasn't cruel. Ummm, yeah. But I held my tongue and suggested some other things they could do - cos the RSPCA ISN'T down with these methods and I'm not quite sure how to phrase it. That's called putting on my 'filter'. So your SiL needs a filter, when she's let out of the pen ;)

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One more thing my mum reminded me of, and I'll use my sister's Weimaraner as an example....My sister took her dog with her everywhere, and when it came to the crunch of being left alone, she didn't know how to be left alone IYKWIM? She wasn't taught to be left for long periods (or even shortish periods) because she went everywhere with her (this dog also destroyed all the retic in the garden and did managed to escape her LOCKED crate). So it's important to not only take your dog with you, but also to teach it that it can be left alone. Good luck, I'd love to see photos!

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:yeahthat:

My aunty has a ****aspanual (sp?) that she treats like a baby, and, well yeah... she's ruined him. He's so evil!
Irgnore your SIL, I think you have quite a good little set up for your new family member! and in no way would the RSPCA come down on you. If the area is clean, pup has water and food when it's needed then there is no reason, and they're wasting there time (and yours)

And good on you for thinking ahead!!

Guess what??? :lol: Our baby is here!!! He is sooooooooo freaking cute & we just LOVE him to bits. I have been making the girls push him down & say 'NO!' when he jumps up at them & he is now 'sometimes' just coming & sitting at their feet, but he gets very excited & sometimes forgets. All in all it's been really great & I am putting him in my ensuite at night & he slept last night til 4am without a peep then I put him outside & he wanted to stay out there!!! So I left him out there, but I put the lights on cos he won't go onto the grass if it's dark & he was asleep in his kennel at 7:30am when we got up!! :dance:

Today is the first day I am leaving him alone, so he is going in the 'dreaded SIL pen' heehehe

I haven't mentioned the pen anymore to her but I did ask her last night to stop roughing him up, she was doing that push him away so he would come back at her thingy & I asked her to stop because I didn't want him to learn that behaviour around the girls. You know they get all excited & start growling & stuff - I know it's only playing, but my girls don't like that & so I asked her to stop doing it & she was miffed but she can suck it up. He's OUR dog.

But sure enough, this morning he tried playing that with Jessica & she didn't like it so I made her stand up & take him to the door & put him outside.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE her playing with him, but I don't like the jumping all over her type of play & neither does she.

Oooh MUPPITY the tri-colours are JUST beautiful! We tried for one of those, but none came in the litter, even though Mummy dog is a Tri Colour, but he does have tiny little fawn eyebrows! LOL

Ok, when I get a chance tonight I will try & upload some photo's!

Love Jayne

PS _ I can totally see already how they need firm training right from the word go!!!

She so was NOT trying to push him away - everyone surely knows this is the way to engage a dog?? And it's certainly not appropriate to encourage that reaction in a dog when it lives with small children...what is WRONG with your SiL, who apparently knows stuff about dogs? He might be better off outside when she comes round :rolleyes:
Definitely set the parameters from the start - we knew our big dog was going to grow huge, so he was never allowed on the couch or the bed (except when I was watching the Athens Olympics and I was getting up to a cold house in the mornings, when he was about 12 weeks old and we'd had him 3 weeks and he'd survived his pneumonia near-death experience ;) ) and we asked visitors not to lift him up to the chairs.
Well, I hope her actions with your new addition have alleviated any kind of guilt she may have been trying to induce, because, clearly, she has NO clue!

Yeah she was doing that whole push away thingy to get him to come running back to her & then pushing him away again, you know what I mean, & then he got really excited & wanted to do it over & over again?? But I am teaching the girls to push him down when he jumps so I want him to NOT come back if he is pushed away - for him to realise that pushing him down means 'no' & that he has done something inappropriate.

I like how you look that the longevity of the puppy's life, that it will only be a pup for a very short time & a BIG dog for the majority of it!