no father on birth cert. Centrelink wont pay until someone is on there help

hi not sure if this is the right place. Mods please feel free to move. Ok so i have a question. My brothers girlfriend has just had a lil boy and for legal reasons he cannot go on the birth cert or be named in anyway. Another thread has all the reasons why. But centrelink are not going to pay her a cent until she tells them who the father is. She has told them she has no idea who it is and they kept saying to her that even someone drunk would know at least a first name. She was luckily with her mum but was in tears from the drilling. Does anyone know if they can refuse payment if the girl doesnt know who the father is? Briggsys girl i hope you see this and can help xx B

I wouldn't think so - in rape cases you wouldn't know the fathers name, KWIM?

Hey!

Im not 100% sure how but my sister had a little boy 16 months ago and she doesnt have the fathers name on his birth certificate and she still gets her full PPS. She did have to have an appointment with a social worker but i dont know if she had to do anything else.
i will ask her and get back to you!

I hope BG comes in first!!!

Good luck

Im sure BG will be in to explain but I think that she will need to have a meeting with them to "prove" she doesn't know who he is. So she will need to be confident in her denials of who he is otherwise they can refuse payments until she gives an honest answer.

I sort of know the background why - but I don't think the guy shouldn't be listed. I would get legal advice on that one first. Have you already done that? Aren't DHS already aware of the situation? If they know, they would be the ones to report it to the police anyway.

It's a crappy thing to have "father unknown' on the birth certificate. It's embarrassing and humiliating later in life. I know this because I've seen a few working a Clink.

They will pay her money - only at the base rate of the FTB A. She will still get Parenting Payment no worries.

ask for an appointment with a social worker. explain the situation. from the perspective of c'link (and the government in general) the father has to be named as, accepting father unknown means it is negating the fathers responsibility to pay child support. it's only accepted in situations where it is truly unknown (like in rape cases - though some women will lie and say unknown one night stand to get out of naming a father)

given the fact that DHS are involved, my guess is that he is going to be named at some point anyway - so it's definitely something that needs to go through social workers.

if there is a concern re statutory rape charges, you'd need to contact legal aide about what happens if he is named.

with regards to the consultant that gave them a hard time about paternity - tell them to put in a complaint. it's not a consultants job to make someone "confess" - if paternity is "unknown" it is to be referred to a social worker. someone was on a power trip due to the age of the mother - it's a crock - it should be referred immediately

I do think a certain amount of pressure is warranted. It IS a rare case that they truly don't know - and to deny the name when you DO know (no matter what the situation) is not on.

They do it for lots of reasons - lots of times because a friend did it and then goes and tells everyone else how they lied about it. OR they may be being threatened by the father that doesn't want to pay CS OR they are told by 'well meaning' friends that lying about it is fine.
You can't change paternity for personal convenience.

I have to fullheartedly agree wiht Lulu. Having father unknown is a terrible thing to see on a birth cerficate.
eg
one of my besties eldest and her boyfriend spanked the monkey, split and found out later that she was pg. She knew who it was but still put father un known on DS' birth certificate. Then her and boyfriend patched things up and ended up getting married.....having 2 more children with fathers name on all certificates. Friends eldest son discovered his birth certificate and was an emotional wreak cause he thought his dad wasnt his dad and that he didnt love him. HE then had to 'adopted' his own son.

It might not be easier now as you put it...but why not but up with the crap now when there are no children envolved rather then hurt their souls later in life.

thanks so much everyone and bg. Just to make it clear my brother and his girlfriend both want him on the birth cert. Just worried that the police can press charges without the parents request. It is a very horrible situation but they are both in it together and want to be a family. The law just wont let them. Bg i will def speak to legal aide today and get sil to put in a complaint about the worker. She has already seen the social worker who has said its ok if she doesnt know who the dad is. It is hurting her so much by not putting my brother on there cause they truley do love each other. Thanks again so so much xx

You really need to find out the exact legalities of the Stat Rape laws here in WA. Im not sure if they are dramarically different from vic or not.
From my personal experience with them, which was 10 years ago now, Statutory Rape charges can ONLY be brought by the parents of the minor child involved.

I will have a chat to a friend of mine today and get back to you about this.

Clarify the law - I don't think there is anything stopping them. Don't make these decisions on assumptions ok? Put him on the birth cert - nothing is stopping them doing that either.

Thanks so much Limeslice I really appreciate it.

Lulu - We will def find out the facts first. :) We thought that you could just change the Birth Cert in 2 years time when she is 16. We didnt know about all the rigmoral about adopting and things.
I just hope it all works out for them and that my brother will not go to jail.

Bee - the birth certificate is a legal document designed to be very difficult to change and to record all the particulars required for identifying someone through out their life.
It is never as simple as "oh we will just change it" - that would defeat the purpose of the document in the first place.
I understand your fears, but be aware that this one document will follow this child and indeed your family long after you are dead and gone...It is a document intended to still identify this person long after their own death and establish family connections etc.

It is unusual for a statutory rape offender i these circumstances to actually go to jail. He will be registered as a sex offender though - that would be my main concern. They don't discriminate about that. (If the parents press charges)
Like I said though, I will find out some details for you and get back to you.

I think they should go to Legal Aid. It looks like trying to avoid one problem may create a bigger one.

• If your brother is not on the birth certificates, he has no legal rights to the child
• They are currently lying to a government department. If someone dobbed them in (I imagine friends and family know), then they can be charged with breaking the law.
• A child deserves to know who his legal parent are. As pp have said, denying paternity can have nasty consequences.
• The basic fact is he has already broken the law by having sex with a child. There's a reason for the age of consent. If they get legal advice, fess up now, he can cop the consequences and then they can get on with their lives.
• Harsh as this sounds, but I'd like to know that the parents of a child are taking financial responsibility for them, rather than expecting the tax payer to foot the bill. By avoiding having his name on the cert, he can get away with avoiding his financial responsibility, which the rest of us then pick up.

I realise it's stressful and you don't want your brother to get into trouble. But he's a father and an adult. He needs to man up and face the consequences. Lying to one authority to avoid getting into trouble with another authority is child-like behaviour. He's just going to have to grow up so he can be an example to his child.

Hey LS,
I agree with you 100% and that is why he wants to be on the birth cert. He is my brothers lil boy and he is perfect.
We all want to be a part of his life.
I am petrified he will go to jail because he would not last a minute. He has the mentality of a 15 year old.
He has gone out and got a job so he can support his GF (He is not allowed to see her anymore only the baby) and his lil boy.
He is doing the right thing. Bought her everything she needs, ie capsule so her mum can drive them around, cot, matress, clothes, bottles, nappies, formula you name it he has bought it. He got a loan from my dad so he could make sure she has all she needed.

If you could get back to me from talking to whoever you need to that would be so great.
Thanks again

B

Tash there are alot of underlying circumstances.
Thanks for your input though

:hug: Hopefully this works out for everyone and I would be very proud of your brother providing for his son regardless the circumstances.

B - sorry if I was too harsh

I hope it all works out for them

They have 60 days to register his birth, so they have a bit of time up their sleeve to seek the proper legal advice before registering it because it will be much easier in the long run to get it right the first time than to change it later and I think they owe it to their son to do the right thing and not hide it like it is something to be ashamed of. If it takes a little time to get all the legal advice sorted out before they can apply for centrelink money she will still be back paid so she wont lose out, but she will just have to wait for it. I assume that her parents were supporting her up to this point anyway considering her age so surely they can support both of them now just for that litle bit longer till this is all sorted. Plus your brother is making every effort to help too which is great.

And yes, like Tashybabe said you just can't run the risk of doing it that way and then being dobbed in because the penalities are quite harsh and that's the last thing they need to deal with.

But most of all just make sure that they know you have their back and will help them sort it out because I can only imagine how she must be feeling to have copped what she did from the staffer at c'link and be told all sorts of things that would make her feel like she's done something really terrible kwim?

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He has the mentality of a 15 year old.

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OK - if this is the case and it has been documented by properly qualified people then it isn't an issue. Even if someone did decide to get involved and press charges then he would probably be found not liable. I would think that the whole not telling anyone would also work to his advantage in this situation - he clearly isn't thinking like an adult.

I am more concerned about why he isn't allowed to see his GF anymore. Who has put this ban in place and why did they do it?

Also, seriously, in this day and age not putting his name on the birth certificate will not actually mean to anything and I think it would count against him. All it would take is a DNA test to show paternity and if he is then asked why he wasn't listed as the father and he said it was so he didn't get into trouble then it isn't going to sit well with a judge.

I wish your whole family the very best

I have no advice but I just want to send your family some love, warmth and support as your work through this difficult time. :hug:

Thanks muppity,
The girls father has requested they not see each other. My brother can see his baby just not his girlfriend. I understand this completely as he works up north and has not been home to see if his daughter is ok.
My brother wants to go on the birth cert but cries himself to sleep every night, walks around like a zombie and cries at the smallest things cause you can see the fear in him. He has constontly been throwing up every day and is a complete mess.

I have seen his girlfriend and bubs and she is fine (as best as she could be) she is enrolled in the same school her 2 sisters go to ( one is 17 and one is 18 with 2 year olds each). she starts on Monday and cant wait because it is a school for teenage mums, they go to school upstairs then at lunch time come down and have lunch with there babies.
The same day she gave birth she told me and my dp that that was all she wanted to do, go to school with her baby.

i feel so sick at the thought that she wanted to be like her sisters, but i cant help but wonder.

Just needed to get it out sorry.


Thanks for the hugs Epacris :)

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:hug: Hopefully this works out for everyone and I would be very proud of your brother providing for his son regardless the circumstances.

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Sounds like his 15 year old mentality has gone up a bit! Hope everything's going well!

Thanks Rhyab and Charlottesmum :)
he has realised what his actions have done and is doing everything he possible can.

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[*]If your brother is not on the birth certificates, he has no legal rights to the child.

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Can you verify this? I'm not sure it's true. If he is the biological father of the child, those rights remain.

I'd like to clear this up. It's quoted alot and if you get people running about not listing fathers on b/c for their own agendas it does more harm than good.

Oh Bee - I am just so sorry - this story just keeps getting worse. Everyone wants to be like their big sister at some stage - but really!

I can only suggest that your bro follows her father's instructions to the letter - but it sounds like he is doing this anyway.

Hugs to you all.

Thanks muppity, i dont want to think the worst in her but ......................
I cant help but wonder.
She is only a baby herself and wouldnt of realised the impact of this baby that they both made.
It is looking more like a vicious cycle that her family is in. Her mum had her older sister at 14, her sister had her baby at 16, then the next sister had one at 15 and now her at 14.

My brother will not do anything out of line. he is sticking to what her dad says to the letter.

Lulu: My brother wants legal rights to the baby and is happy to support him. he is not trying to run away from this in any way. if you get it confirmed ie

Originally Posted by "tashybabe [*]If your brother is not on the birth certificates, he has no legal rights to the child."

Can you please let me know.
We all (My family) want to be a part of this babies life. We love him. My older sister has just had a lil boy 9 weeks ago and I am due in 10 weeks (a boy as well). They will be cousins and should be in each others life.

It is not fair to punish the innocent child and not let him have the love of his extended family.


xx
B

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Can you verify this? I'm not sure it's true. If he is the biological father of the child, those rights remain.

I'd like to clear this up. It's quoted alot and if you get people running about not listing fathers on b/c for their own agendas it does more harm than good.

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I agree Lulu. I was of the belief (not knowledge) that providing a paternity test comes back that he is in fact the child's father, then he does have legal rights. I must try and find something about this.

bee84 - It is certainly an awful mess that your brother and his gf are in. It sounds like though that they are being mature about it, and looking towards the future, which is fantastic! For the gf to enrol into school is wonderful. I really hope she makes something of it, and has the support behind her. It certainly won't be easy, with a baby and studying, but if she can put her mind to it, I'm sure she can do it.
And your brother does sound like he's doing the right thing, by providing for them. I really hope for your brothers sake that he can see his gf again soon.
I'm praying that this mess gets cleared up soon for you all.

Oh B - I get that loud and clear from your posts xoxoxoxo

On a separate level I want that statement sorted. that's all :hug:

lol Thanks Lulu :) Just making sure :)

Jodi - I agree hopefully this mess is all sorted very soon.

hmmm i find it strange (going back to OP) that centrelink wouldnt pay due to 'father unknown'. this must be a policy change made in the last 12ish years??

for example, on my birth certificate it has 'father unknown' (and yes, father was 'known' but didnt want to be 'known' legally ITMS) and my mother was able to access full parenting payments.

I hope that the girl can find some good support and advice in this matter, as well, anyone that has been on the receiving end of centrelink will know, it can be a hard, cruel and delibrately confusing place to navigate, especially as a child (this is what i found in my own experience anyway).

:hug: to you and your family and the girl going through this. you'll all get through it i'm sure xx

Parenting payments are fine - it's about the ftb and chasing child support and the actual parents paying not the taxpayers

Thanks so much Cassius2.
I have just spoken to a legal representative and I feel alot better now, well as much as I can.
Aparently anyone can make a complaint to the police and the police have to investigate.
If charges are laid, it can take years for it to go through the courts and jail is not likely due to the circumstances. The lawyer said that it is possible that he will be put on the sex offender registry and that is permanent, however it may not come to that.
She will get back to me about the birth cert issue and what we should do about that.

Thanks so much for everyones support, I really appreciate it

xx
B

good to see you are getting legal advice. I hope they also mentioned to you that even if you could 'hide' the paternity for a couple of years, he 'could' still be charged with statutory rape later on (even if she is then older then 16, because she was younger then this at the time it occurred).

yep they sure did Misty, Thanks for the heads up though
:)

the birth certificate doesn't come into it re paternal rights if it's proven via DNA testing. i've come across more than one case where this has been proven and the fathers have had the same legal rights (and obligations) as one listed. it's simply the fact that the father isn't initially listed.

it seriously messes with the kids head when it comes out - so do all you can to make sure your bro is listed. no matter what is going to happen re legal side of things, he IS the father, he KNOWS he is the father - and he should be listed on that certificate. not listing him to avoid prosecution isn't smart - it will come out (just look at how many of your friends and family know of this situation)

she can make a claim for parenting payment and ftb as a single prson - she isnt living in a marriage like relationship with him! she will have to claim chiild support though... make sure your bro keeps rexord of all non-cash support he gives (like the stuff you mentioned) - it can come off his liability. also look at arranging mediation to draw up a parenting plan for his access, if he has more than 14% access it will reduce his cs liability as well as he will have to have somewhere fofr bubba to sleep etc

Not meaning to be cruel, but has his parternity been tested and proven? I would be seriously thinking of having this checked before worrying about him being in trouble. I am not suggesting the girl is deliberately duping him, but they are young and both not necessarily responsible enough to have made great decisions here.

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Can you verify this? I'm not sure it's true. If he is the biological father of the child, those rights remain.

I'd like to clear this up. It's quoted alot and if you get people running about not listing fathers on b/c for their own agendas it does more harm than good.

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Actually, I found I made an assumption. Like most assumptions, turns out I?m wrong (or at least not 100% right) :redface:, so I apologise for that. He does have legal rights, but he may find it difficult to prove his paternity legally. If he tries to prove he?s the father, then various government agencies will know the mother lied about not knowing who the father is and there?ll be further consequences.

It seems, to be legally deemed to be the father, he needs:

• to named on the birth certificate, or
• get a court order
• fill out a stat dec based on DNA testing result - this is for CSA

I'm not 100% on this - I can't find a whole lot of information about establishing paternity in WA. There's a lot about people denying paternity, but not establishing it.

Research I?ve found includes:
The Births, Deaths and Marriages Registration Act 1998 requires that a child?s birth is registered within 60 days of the birth and that both parents complete and sign a Birth Registration Form provided to them by the hospital or midwife.
Adding father's details

Both parents are jointly responsible for having the child?s birth registered.
BIRTHS, DEATHS AND MARRIAGES REGISTRATION ACT 1998 - SECT 15
BIRTHS, DEATHS AND MARRIAGES REGISTRATION ACT 1998 - SECT 18

False representation can lead to a fine of $10,000.

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BIRTHS, DEATHS AND MARRIAGES REGISTRATION ACT 1998 - SECT 59
59 . False representation
A person must not make a false or misleading representation in an application or document under this Act, knowing it to be false or misleading.
Penalty: $10 000

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Other research:

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There are two ways of establishing paternity. The first is under the Family Law Act. The second is under the Status of Children Act 1974 (Vic.)
The Family Law Act establishes certain presumptions of parentage. Like all legal presumptions, they may be counteracted by proof to the contrary on the balance of probabilities.
In other words, the Family Law Act presumes that the man is the father of any child arising from the following:
? Marriage
? Cohabitation (or the child being born within 20 weeks of the party separating)
? Acknowledging paternity by an instrument such as a birth certificate

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I haven't been able to find the WA equivalent to the Victorian Status of Children Act.

A person caring for a child born outside marriage can claim child support from the other parent in the same manner as for a child of a married relationship. Where the child is in the care of the mother and the father's name is not on the birth certificate, and he does not sign a statutory declaration to formally admit paternity, it will be necessary to first establish paternity in the Family Court.
DE FACTO RELATIONSHIPS

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Failing to have the father?s name on the birth certificate will not prevent them from seeking Family Court Orders in relation to the child should you separate. Even if the individual is proven not to be the father through DNA testing if they have been a father figure to the children a court may decide that it is in the children?s best interests for them to continue having contact with them.

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Media: Backgrounder: Paternity - Child Support Agency (CSA)
CSA - The Guide - 2.1.3: Parentage
Legal Aid - Western Australia
http://www.legalaid.wa.gov.au/page/L...%20Testing.pdf

I know some of the sources above are not WA specific, but as they pertained to the Family Law Act, not a State Act, I included them.

Resources that may be useful:

WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Grandparents Support Group(08) 9332 5469
Men's Confraternity Inc(08) 9470 1734
Men's Equity Network(08) 9246 1102
Perth Lone Fathers Association(08) 9470 1153
Dad's Landing Pad(08) 9403 3217 ORIA
Family Law Reform Party(03) 9387 7044
Grans Victoria(03) 9796 5442
Fathers for Family Equity(03) 9878 6588
Lone Fathers Association (Shepparton)(03) 5824 1425
Parents Without Rights(03) 9568 3349

I haven't been able to find out 100% how he can prove he's the father if he isn't named on the birth certificate. It looks like he'd have to go to Court to prove it. Don't know the process, but seems a very painful way to go about it.

GL

Whoa Tashy! Bea has explained they both want him to be on the certificate - they are only denying it (so to speak) out of fears he will get a icky mark on the record.

xoxoxo

Ok. This is the story as far as the Sexual Assault Squad in Perth is concerned:

1. There is no such thing as "statutory rape" - it is sexual assault/penetration of a minor.

2. His name on the Birth Certificate has nor bearing to Police whatsoever. It is a non-issue.

3. PUT HIS NAME ON THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE - if not, it will create problems down the line.

4. If her parents and the girl are unwilling to press charges or make a complaint, then no charges can be brought, nor will the police investigate without her complaint.

(IE: Are the parents happy? If her parents want to make a formal complaint, he will be investigated.)

5. She will encounter problems from 2 avenues due to MANDATORY REPORTING LAWS:

- A) The hospital where she gave birth - given her age, they should have already reported this to the Department of Child Protection/Police

- B) The school (I am assuming she is returning to Balga High?). As she is 14 with a child, they are REQUIRED to report this under the mandatory reporting laws in WA.

The results of either/both such reports will be the police will approach the girl and her parents. As above however, if neither are willing to make a complaint or talk about it with police, that is the end of the investigation.

HOWEVER - due to the fact that this girl has 2 older sisters with young children, one of whom is still considered a minor (17 year old), the DCP COULD become involved, if there is a suggestion that her PARENTS are not behaivng appropriately to protect their children from harm (IE under age pregnancies and sexual assault)

6. NAME HIM. If she does not, obtaining CS etc later will be made difficult.

7. IF he were to be charged (IE the parents of she makes a formal complaint) it is UNLIKELY (although not impossible) that he could go to jail - his continued responsibility to the child would be taken into account.

8. IF he were charged and found guilty (which he would be) then he would be a PERMANENTLY REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER which requires mandatory reporting to police for the next 15 YEARS at least. This would also prevent him from EVER working with children, the elderly, infirm and possibly prevent him from travelling overseas in the future, among other things.

9. BE OPEN AND HONEST AS POSSIBLE>>>> THIS WILL HELP IN THE FUTURE SHOULD ANY LEGAL ACTION BE TAKEN>>>>ORGANISE A LEGAL CUSTODY AGREEMENT TO PROTECT BOTH HIM, HER AND THE CHILD (from each other AND her parents)


I hope this helps. As I said this is from a senior member of the sexual assault squad in WA.

Her naming him on the birth certificate will not automatically involve the police - they will not even know about it.

Dealing with the mandatory reporting issues such as the school will be a much more important task.
Speak to the principal at Balga though, they have dealt with all of this obviously for some years now and will know what their obligations are.

It seems more than likely that the DCP will become involved to some extent though due to her VERY young age.


HTH :) :hug: