i need to be told its okay.....

H has never, ever slept more than 3 hrs since birth.....today, he is 5 months old. Im still up 4 times a night - 15 mins a time to feed him. 2 outta those 4 times i reckon hes not hungry. The other two times, im ok with.
Last night i think was 5 times....
I cant do controlled crying...(as much as a little part of me wants too). He wakes the 3 other children up, and besides that, i cant last more than 2 mins hearing him cry. I just cant.
I am literally buggered by 4am...i dont have the patience to pat him....DH is usually out on the lounge by this stage. I have to get up at 7am to get DD#1 ready for school. So a quick breastfeed, then into bed, and thats how we've been doing things...

Today im feeling its just not right....hes waking for comfort, not milk.....do i need to go to a sleep school (as 3 girlfriends have already told me......:rolleyes:), do i just plough on (im praying the magical 6 mth mark is going to change things around...i dunno why).
Hes great in the day - i can put him into cot wide awake, and by time i shut the door, get to the kitchen, his stirring/crying has stopped and he sometimes will sleep for 2hrs. He can self settle.....ive watched him do it. 9/10 times he will do this....
Im surviving the day. Im generally happy....i was at DD swim school today and everyone commenting on 'oh goodness, how do you do it and look so great'....mmm great ??? i dont feel so great....so is it ok what hes doing ???? I just need someone to say what i wanna hear i guess....:pray:

How exhausting! You must be doing something right though if you people are commenting on how well you look!

mbear, there might not be an easy answer to this one. Firstly, the 4 -6 month mark is often a bad sleeping time for babies. They go through such a huge development spurt at around that age, and even babies that were sleeping through often start waking multiple times in the night. Often this does settle down around the 6 -7 month mark, so hopefully it will for you too.

The thing with sleep school is that they nearly always do CIO. If you are not really comfortable with that, it could be a very stressful time for you. It also makes it harder to maintain when you get home.

You mention that you generally co-sleep after the last feed - is co-sleeping all night something that you would consider (following the safe co-sleeping guidelines of course!)? Many mums find that is a way to get more sleep during this difficult time.

Other than that, the only thing I can suggest is to wait and see if it does improve over the next month. But I know that a month probably seems like a very long time for you now!

TOTALLY OKAY!!!

some kids at night just need that little bit extra comfort i suppouse. DD used to also go to sleep really well during the day, but at night would find it difficult. we just ploughed on...with tears and fatigue and dreams of pina coladas on a deserted island LOL!

for us, (and this could be different for you guys) we found that it was the silence of nighttime that spooked her. for example DD has just gone 2, and at 10.30 SPOT ON she rouses ever so slightly...it's the usual time that we haul ourselves to bed and all goes quiet. about a year ago DH and I had the revelation that her unsettled behaviour was due to this and in a way, psychologically speaking, it made the night get ups a bit easier ITMS (and we realised that it was nothing dire or serious).

If milky juice is what it takes to get him (and you!) back to sleep at night, then i reckon just follow that lead! we did and it didnt 'ruin' DD...

Not much time but totally ok!!!! :D Although I know it doesn't feel it, LOL.

you are doing great and as long as you follow your heart you can't go wrong.

xxx

big hugs,
maybe try a soft toy etc?? so have the toy with you whne you feed and jsut put it in his bed and leave it with him if you kleave the room etc

this worked my my son

It feels like forever at the time... but know it will end. My first was a terrible sleeper (well I guess she was just her, I was terrible at coping with it!!) but she'd sleep for 20-40 mins during the day, in my arms... day sleeps stopped at 12 months. Night was bad too, but cosleeping saved my sanity, it was the easiest way for me to deal with it on very little sleep, and it's a very natural thing to do anyway... just know this... my two kids are the BEST sleepers now. They sleep for 11 hours overnight without waking and have done for a while. Controlled crying will just break your soul, when you're already tired and stressed, hearing your bubba cry for you will make things worse and it teaches your bubba learned helplessness, cos crying for help doesn't make help come.

Get some good books - makes a huge difference when science backs up what's going on and how you feel. Also I find around 5-6 months is VERY fussy, they are going through major changes developmentally, close to crawling etc... its notoriously a growth/fussy time!

Check out What Every Parent Needs to Know (formerly The Science of Parenting), The Wonder Weeks and Pinky McKays Sleeping Like a Baby. Good luck!!! :)

:hug:
I remember my DH exclaiming in exasperation one night "But he just wants company!"

We did the up-down all night hell for a while, then changed the rules - ie, forgot about the cot. If co-sleeping works for part of the night, maybe it'd work for the whole night. And it doesn't have to be a permanent thing - You may find that once he's happier and sleeping better for a while, you can try again to move him out.

They go through phases and things like separation anxiety can mean they just can't sleep on their own and yes, they need comfort during the night. Having to get up to them and then back to your own bed only makes things harder on you - sometimes rather than trying to 'fix' our babies, changing our circumstances around them works better.

The other book I'd recommend is The No-Cry Sleep Solution.

My DS was very similar. I think he tended to go 3.5 to 4hourly overnight though so not quite as frequent a waker as your DS but we did have nights like you've described. He was the same during the day too - could self settle after going into his basinette/cot awake and could sometimes self settle mid-sleep and roll into the next cycle but not often. He tended to do an initial long sleep in the morning and then a series of 40mins naps all afternoon/evening. By bedtime he was usually overtired from not having a decent nap. We didn't co-sleep.

About a month ago I was tearing my hair out and seriously considering sleep school etc. I tried 'comforted crying' a couple of times during the day to try and help him extend his afternoon naps - staying with him etc. but he got very upset and I couldn't continue doing it. It wasn't working, even with me holding, rocking, singing etc he was awake and he wanted to get up.

In the last fortnight, he has just started to sleep longer both during the day and at night. I am still feeding twice a night but he is going closer to 5 hours between feeds, sometimes a bit longer and sleeping 1.5 to 3 hours for his day naps too. I have no idea why - I'm not doing anything differently to when he was younger except that he is older now. For him, 7 months was the turning point.

I know how hard it is to be in that place where you're trying to decide what the best thing to do is. You want to do the best thing for him, but also for your other kids, DH and of course yourself! Sometimes what's best for one family member isn't always best for others. I used to swing between thinking that he'd sleep longer in his own time and that if he needed comforting at night that was ok (his needs come before mine etc) to thinking "what if he's struggling to learn how to sleep/nap and he needs my help?" and thinking that I couldn't cope for too much longer with the broken sleep. It's really tough to know what to do. In the end I just kept getting him when he woke during the day and feeding him back to sleep at night. Now that we seem to be out the other side and I can see definite improvement, I'm really glad I waited him out and let him do it in his own time.

Just trust your instincts hun. You're an awesome mum and sound like you're doing a great job. Based on my experience (and I am probably biased!) I think you're doing the right thing. As long as you feel you're coping with the broken sleep and the demands on you during the day with your other kids that is. He will get there eventually. I hope it's sooner rather than later. xx

ETA - I found No Cry Sleep Solution, Sleeping Like a Baby and The Wonder Weeks books great for ideas and information.

MR - i didnt know that about sleep schools...well, there defn out then. Thanks.

He is still in our room (although its more mine and H's room now...DH is often out on the lounge !!!:rolleyes:). His cot is at the foot of our bed, so i dont have far to travel......i have tried him in with me....and it worked when he was very little, but now, he wriggles and moves and it does my head in, so once ive finished feeding him, i move him back into his cot.

:

---

with tears and fatigue and dreams of pina coladas on a deserted island LOL!

---

..oh stop it...you mean theres a world outside these 4 walls of mine with pina coladas ???sounds bliss. I will get there......one day.;).

Those books sound great. I think above all what im looking for is reassurance....and if some of those authors can provide it....well yeah, its worth looking into....

:

---

Sometimes what's best for one family member isn't always best for others. I

---

...OMG...so true.

Kaz thank u for your post....i could relate to a lot of what you were saying.....;)

Margot Sunderland has based her book on something ridiculous like 600 studies. So you not only get reassurance about the job you're doing, but science overwhelmingly proves it for you too. I found the explainations on how the brain works and how we interact with them at an early age can affect that to be really motivating too.

Those books always help me when i'm feeling tired and over it. I'm still getting up about 3 times a night. Sometimes 2 but other times 4. Just reading back over a bit of 'the science of parenting' is enough for me to know my sleep deprivation is worth it. My first DD sleeps 12 hours solid and never wakes up, looking forward to when #2 is doing that! But take comfort in the fact you are not alone. I try to co-sleep but we both seem to get less sleep. Guess it's not for everyone, i wish it was!

Hey mbear :hug: hang in there mate. In the scheme of H's life it's but a whisper....says she who still gets up sometimes 45minutely....I just know how crap you feel, and how frustrated.

I thought I had the worst sleeper in history and it was my fault bc she always needs to be rocked or fed to sleep and she never self settled. I tried lots of different things and was at the end of my rope!! I finally took the advice from the trusty BB girls and gave up!! That's the only thing that worked. I just stopped trying to change her and did what she wanted and what worked. And I have seen massive improvements!! It really is just a phase and we are coming out the end of it now! Hang in there :hug:

Yep, it's totally okay hun :hug:. I personally love the No-Cry Sleep Solution for reassurance. Although it has 'plans' that you can try, it also talks alot about what is 'normal' for babies, what they need and why, and helps you to assess whether there really is anything you need to change at all! But any of the other books listed will help you too.

It sucks that there is no easy solution, but know that it will end one day ;). This will all seem a distant memory! In the meantime, just go with whatever works, and I mean whatever. I too found co sleeping difficult, until DS was about 8 months, and I was just soooo sleep deprived that somehow co sleeping became the better option, mostly just because I ALWAYS fell asleep while feeding him. In fact, I often wouldn't really wake up when DS did, even if I was getting him from his cot in the next room!!! But we did move past all of that, and co sleeping when it happens is lovely these days :) and he can also sleep in his own bed :dance:. You know, in a years time you'll probably be saying all these reassuring words back to me :rofl:.

Oh, and MR is right, pretty much all sleep schools will advocate some form of cc. I went to a day stay, and although they didn't force me to do things I wasn't comfortable with, I still wasn't overly happy with their methods. I did keep up with them for a month at home, but it was REALLY hard and I was so much more tired than I'd ever been. DS just could not sleep through at that age. Things were much easier when we went back to what we'd been doing :rolleyes:. You live and learn I guess!

Take care hun, rest when you can, and just close your eyes and dream of those pina coladas ;).

Hang in there hun :hug: you are doing a great job (as you know)....

My DD has never been a very good day sleeper and if she sleeps longer than 45mins/1hr then that's a good sleep for her in the day time!! And night time we are still waking 1-3 times on any given night here too.... sometimes she'll only wake once a night and that's a good night. Occasionally she will sleep 8 or 9hrs straight!! She still feeds once a night (sometimes twice if growth spurt) and we're BF'ing.

She is nearly 9mths now and when she was about 4mths of age I decided I wasn't going to 'try' anymore and just went with the flow of her and if she wanted to feed to sleep, i would let her, if she wanted to be put down and fall asleep on her own, which she does sometimes, i would let her.... and i found doing that... just going with the flow of 'your' particular baby, is the easiest way about it.... and trying not to focus on how tired we are all the time. However I know you must be very tired with 3 young kids :hug: I'll be there one day :lol:

We do a bit of co-sleeping some nights it seems to give me that little bit extra rest I need rather than walking back and forth to her room.

The biggest thing I have learnt since becoming a Mum, is parenting out of instinct.... not what any book tells you... (however Pinky is really good I love her books!!) because at the end of the day it is YOU that has to live with the decisions/consequences/regrets or whatever..... just do what feels right.... i parent out of instinct, its the best way ;)

I was just thinking about you today my dear and wondering if H has settled for you. Truely you need a big hug and thanks for the post too. I don't have any answers except to go with your gut feeling. I don't have the constant waking with Miss E but she is feeding for up 2 hours overnight. I have tried taking her off when I think she is just sucking for comfort but that ends up in a crying mess (both of us), so I just lay in bed with her attached to me and I drift in and out of sleep ( sort of). Whilst I am not getting a deep sleep I figure that a doze is better than nothing.

I really needed this today too! I have just got back from mothers group with my confidence knocked! All their babies are sleeping through, in their own cots for 12 hours! I felt like the sucker with the co-sleeping wriggler whose cot takes up half the room and the total lack of privacy.

But this is exactly what I needed to read today. DD is only little for such a short time, I will get my bed back, I will get my room back and I will get my love life back.

Won't I?? :pray:

I know it's really hard right now mbear, but look around in here: lots of mums that have been there too and we're still going.

I havent read all the responses but my little one 10.5mths is still up 4-5 times a night,and needs a feed to re-settle each time.
So I completely understand what you mean when you say you're tired!
It'll get better, just have to ride it out!

:

---

I really needed this today too! I have just got back from mothers group with my confidence knocked! All their babies are sleeping through, in their own cots for 12 hours! I felt like the sucker with the co-sleeping wriggler whose cot takes up half the room and the total lack of privacy.

But this is exactly what I needed to read today. DD is only little for such a short time, I will get my bed back, I will get my room back and I will get my love life back.

Won't I?? :pray:

---

Winter, I always wonder though, are ALL those mothers telling the truth???? ;)

And yep, I too, constantly remind myself that DD will only be little for such a short time and I will miss these days when they are grown up! (not the lack of sleep but the other stuff!!)

Probably not, Shanti! I'm sure none of them sleep through all the time, but they all parent so differently to me...I really love the women, but I feel like a fish our of water in my parenting choices.

I'm just so thankful that there is a beautiful bunch of women on here who can prop each other up when the doubts creep in.

*Mwah* I love youse all! xox

Mbear - :hug: I truly know how you feel because DS1 was the same. You need to do what works for you and what you're comfortable with.

For ME, we got to 10 months and I hit rock bottom. I just couldn't take the sleep deprivation any more and hated the mum I'd become (cranky, irritable, yelling at the kids constantly etc) We went to sleep school (and didn't use CIO methods) and that's what worked for US. I wish it didn't happen that way but I have no regrets about it.

Before then I just did whatever worked to get the most amount of sleep for both of us. Hang in there, one way or another he WILL eventually get there.

Thanks gorgeous ladies.....

Shanti - your so right. Deep, deep down, i know what im doing is ok...i know its working for us (kinda). I guess like Winter (;)) i get really anxious and uptight when i hear 'oh my god...your still up 4 times a night', or 'maybe you should start solids'. Its then i question myself, its then i start to think 'why isnt my baby sleeping 12 hrs'. It truly does my head in.
Your all right...i know it goes quickly. I remember crying (yet again....) to my DH when DD#3 was 8 months old, saying i cant do this sleep depo anymore...its killing me. Now, she runs to bed at 7pm, gets all juicy under the blankets, says 'nite mumma' and we dont hear from her till 7am next morn. That day...for my little boy seems a zillion galaxies away.....

Marcellus...your right, i know there are a lot of BB gals up at all hours like moi....i guess just having a show of hands that 'hey, ive been there too' is somewhat comforting. Rather than the ' you should call tresillian, he sounds really bad !' :rolleyes:

Bek - no more crying....pulease............;)

Thanks lovies....you think by #4 i kinda would know whats instore...but nope...they are all sooo different.....
XX

Sorry to have hijacked your thread Mbear, it was just that I am feeling the exact same way as you!

Hope you are feeling better, I know these replies have helped me feel better about what I'm doing & what the real goal is. :hug:

:

---

you think by #4 i kinda would know whats instore...but nope...they are all sooo different.....

---

Yep hun, they sure are and DS1 taught me that. It was hard at the time but now I appreciate all the things he taught me about being a mum.

And you know people say those sorts of things to make themselves feel good about what an awesome parent they are becaues their kid sleeps. Most of us know it's just the luck of the draw, some sleep, some don't. So try not to take it on board (and I know that's hard when it feels like the whole world is alseep while you're up for the 4th time that night).

Big :hug: babe, you're doing an awesome job.

**ETA: Mbear the other thing is, he's only 5 months old!!! He's still so little and needs his mummy. I think he sounds like a pretty normal little baby to me.

:yeahthat:

How well your baby sleeps is not a valid metric for evaluating your performance as a parent...

Yep exactly... I agree. Some babies are just better at sleeping than others.... and for those mum's with bubs who sleep 'through' (whatever their definition is of that!) from a young age.... may have troublesome teens when they are older ;) hehe
At least while our bubs are up with us in the middle of the night, 1,2,3 times or whatever, we are getting some lovely warm cuddles even if we do feel like zombies.
We are all doing such a great job as Mum's :clap:

Well there was a study that said sleeping through was on average....... 5 hours!!!

Some babies sleep more during the day than others and make up for it at night and vice versa. Some, like my first, don't like to sleep at all! Just their little personalities shining at an early age. She's a real go-getter, full of beans and ideas. Mum says its karma - I was exactly the same as her, wanted to party at night!

:

---

She's a real go-getter, full of beans and ideas.

---

My little fella is exactly the same, always on the go, never stops!

And mine too LOL! Why sleep, you might miss out on something? Willow, it's a shame we can't get our boys together :lol:

You are doing an amazing job with H, especially since you have three others kids demanding your time and attention as well. I've got no advice for you (you don't want any off me, mine DS is sleeping even less than yours - feel better??) but heaps and heaps of support, hugs and an cyber ear.