Sleep time at our house goes like this...

Ok this might be a bit jumbled and long, but please bare (sp??) with me, we need :help:!!!

Ok so....where to start? Well, I have put htis here because I would rather use gentle methods than any kind of crying or ignoring techniques, but at the moment, DH and I are starting to get a bit desperate.

Alright, well lets just say that I haven't had a full nights sleep in over 2 1/2yrs....and I haven't had any less than 2 wakings in more than 14mths. I am tired, DH is tired. We are both over the sleeping issues in our house and are going to try to do something about it, but don't really have any kind of plan.

Some of the issues we want to address are.....
We live in a 2br unit, which most likely won't be changing anytime soon. DS sleeps in our room full time. He sleeps in his cot in our room part time, then come into my bed. DD goes to sleep in her big girl bed, then comes into our room part way through the night. DH sleeps on a double mattress on the floor in our room most of the time. He sleeps in our bed if DS isn't in it, or if DD isn't in on the mattress with him. DS will wake 1-2 times a night for a bf, then dummy. DD will wake 1-2 times a night for a drink, her blankie or dummy. At least. DH deals with DD, I deal with DS.

When DH is on a night shift it is inevitable that I end up being up at least 4-5 times cause both the kids want to have me sleep with them but when I move from one to the other they both wake up and cry. They don't seem to really wake each other except in the morning. I hate nightshifts with a passion because I end up being sooooo much more tired than I usually am. The other night I was awake 7 times within 6hrs. Can anyone say ZOMBIE....

So this arrangement isn't working for us any more. DH and I get very little time to be together. Intimacy is rare in our house. I know it isn't just for the bedroom, but at the moment, that's about the only place we can seem to manage and it is likely to happen without too much effort. At least in bed we can just snuggle and touch each other. We are both sooo tired too.

DH's job isn't easy. He needs sleep. He works 12hr+ shifts he works full time. I work part time, usually about 40ish hours a fortnight. I am not coping emotionally with the lack of sleep. He lets me sleep in often, but then he misses out. And I feel guilty. The kids are fine and seem to have enough sleep. THey are happy and energetic when they wake. Unlike me who is often snappy and grumpy. I also fall asleep on the couch in the mornings and I just so don't feel like I'm being the mum I want to be at all. I also don't feel like DH's and my relationship is getting anywhere. Not that it is deteriorating or anything, but there's just no time for us. I sooo miss just 'us'.

So, after all of that, the plan is at chrissy time when both DH and I have 2 weeks off together we are going to try to get the kids into their own beds full time. In the same bedroom. And to take the dummies away because we think that might be contributing to the wakings sometimes. And to night wean DS. At this time, we will be able to support each other in doing it. We had thought to just do it all cold turkey. They go into their beds with no dummies or booby at night and that's just that. But as it gets nearer, I am starting to stress about it. I know DD will have a really tough time with it. Especially the no dummy. And DS will definately protest big time about no boo through the night.

So does anyone have any wonderful suggestions?? I am starting to really get stressed about it, cause I really do want my bed back, my hubby back and some more sleep, but I'm not sure what extent I will be able to go to?!!?? Please help me!

Sorry this is so long and thanks to anyone who has actually read and understood any of it!

Oh wow hun, I feel so bad for you! Lack of sleep truly is torture.

I think it makes a LOT of sense to get them into their own beds and get your own room/ space back and to do all that while you have one another to support. It won't be an easy time, I am sure, and I guess you need to be quite clear about what you are going to do when they wake up, so that at 3am when you are beside yourselves with tiredness, you stick to the plan and don't cave and just drag them into bed with you! I suspect consistenct will be key to cracking this one. DH and I have a big thing taped to the wall of DS's room about what to do when he cries, so we're both on the same page and you don't have to think too much in the middle of the night.

Just one thing about the dummies/ blankie. I personally would be hesitant to take these away as well, all at once. I am sure others will say differently, and perhaps they are right, I guess I would just feel that its all a bit much of a shock all at once. I understand what you are saying about them contributing to waking, though. What we do with DS is put about 8 dummies into his cot with him, and when he wakes without one, he can easily find another- took a little training, but we're not up for dummies any longer, yay! Just something to consider!

In some ways you are right to be stressed about it, simply because you will be prepared for it being difficult- changing sleep patterns is never particularly fun in my experience. But as long as you have a plan and commit to it, there is nothing more you can do, so try to just think about the wonderful sleep which will hopefully follow!

Kell, I understand mate. About it all, the sleeplessness, the separate beds, the dummies, the jobs - everything.
I am just subscribing so I can come back and write a cohesive post.
:hug: and offer support.

Wow! You poor thing...I understand the 'not human' feeling you get from sleep deprivation. It is hell.

I would be inclined to agree with amberj, and perhaps try to take things in steps. Why not start now, or this week with putting them in the same room together. Perhaps you could put a mattress on the floor between their beds and you and DH alternate who sleeps in their room, so at least one of you gets a full nights sleep every other night. The person in the kids bedroom is going to have a rough time of it, but it should get better with time.

Night weaning scares the bejeebers outta me, so I don't even know how to help with that one. Maybe that could be your first step? Perhaps you could get DH to help with DS for a week and you deal with DD until the night weaning is successful?

:hug: to you. It sounds tough. We're all here to support you though!

GL

So sorry to hear you are having such a hard time! sounds so difficult, but you and DH sound like you atleast have each other support, which i think will be the main thing thats gets you through!
I dont really have any advice as i havent been through that situation. My DD is 15 months old and comes in with us in the night, so might learn a thing or two from you post for the future!
I did read somewhere on here about weaning kids from night feed, and that if the dad deals with that child in the night it helps, so if you swap, maybe you look after DD in the night and DH looks after DS. that might make it abit easier.
Hope you find some good advice and manage to get it all sorted and are able to enjoy some quality time with DH after its done!! good luck

Ok here goes.

I think your 2 week plan is a good one.
solidarity and unity are a must.
I think Amber’s plan up on the wall is a good one too. Talk about it and then have the plan printed as a backup.
When DH was on deployment up in the NT was when I chose to get Darcy out of our bed. She was already in her big bed so I didn’t have to worry about that, but I just had to be consistent. When she got up, I took her back and sat with her until she was asleep. I showed her how the monitor worked so she knew I could hear her if she spoke. You won’t need a monitor, but show them how you can hear them without them coming in to you. Get DH to sit in their room and call quietly maybe?
I spent many hours over a few weeks sitting next to Darcy. I read books/magazines (I had a stash in her bedside drawer lol), meditated, sang. At first I held her hand, then just sat on the bed, then on the floor then a bit away then at the door.
I second the not taking the baby’s dummy away. Maybe DD because she is old enough to be complicit, but not DS’s - especially if you are going to night wean. I have just recently gotten rid of Darcy’s via the Dummy Fairy and it was uncomplicated and non stressful for all involved.
Do you think they might be good in a bed together? We’re thinking of getting a bunk with a double bottom for Darcy’s room for when Nate is a bit older as they both like to ‘share’.
As I think of more I will get back to you - but I really think what you’ve already got is a great idea.
oooh and Anna has some top ideas too.

Thanks girls :)

I re read that now and it sounds so...difficult! Gosh how did we get into this mess, lol!

Jessica, I am really dreading doing it. I so hate to hear them crying, and to think that it will kinda be at my hand that they will be miserable will kill me. But I need to do it. We just can't go on the same way anymore. We really thought that it might resolve itself by now, particularly DD's waking. I thought at 2 1/2 she'd be sleeping through. And if she were, we would be able to handle DS's waking. But not both.
And this is why I have asked for suggestions, because although we have a lose plan, there are no details to it, just 'we HAVE to do this!'. So any suggestions are more than welcome! Writing down our goals somwhere we can see them is a great start I think. Thanks :D
I don't want to get rid of the dummies too, but DH does. Maybe we could do that now....or we could just get rid of them for day times. They will only be for sleeping. The blankies are staying, we don't mind the blankies, they aren't so much of a problem.
At least being so stressed, if it all goes more smoothly than I expect, then at least I won't have any expectations that might be dashed! And yes, consistency will be the key. That is the problem. DH will be able to do it. But me....I hate the sounds of them crying (as every mum does!), to the point I get anxiety...eeek!!!

Kim, thankyou hun, I know you have your own issues with sleeping at your house! :hug:

Anna, yes sleep deprivation is torturous. I am pretty sure it is a big contributing factor in why I feel so crappy and overly emotional all the time...
Weaning scares me too. I do love feeding my little man, but he's still feeding 5 or so times a day (as in 24hrs). And I really need sleep. If I can night wean him, then maybe he won't wake at night. It would mean 1-2 less times I have to wake up! And when I feed him at night I tend to stay awake for those 10-15mins til he's finished, unless I'm absolutely, horrifically dog tired, then I just fall asleep with him suckling away. So I just need to stop night feeds I think. Day time is ok!

Ok gotta go, the little man is awake :rolleyes:

No suggestions. Just hugs. You can do it, mate. :hug:

Great idea to do it when DH will be off work and you'll have all hands on deck. I think 2 weeks is definitely long enough to crack the worst of it.

We successfully nightweaned our DS by having DH get up with him. He would just cuddle him and rock him until he fell back asleep. He cried for about 45 mins the first night for each waking (2? can't remember) and it reduced progressively each night. It took about 5 nights before he stopped crying altogether and it was about 2 weeks before he started consistently sleeping through. He was about 22 months old though, so a little older than your DS. At about 25 months or so he started nightwaking frequently again, and so ended back up in our bed. However, as soon as he was back with us he started sleeping through (11 hours) without fail, and has done for the last 6 months. For me, even though we didn't get our bed back, getting my body back and a full night's sleep made the world of difference to my own sanity and therefore the time and energy I had for our relationship. I think the reason DS started waking is that we also moved him from a mattress in our room into his own room at the same time.

If you do decide to stick with getting rid of the dummies at the same time, but then find that one/both are really not coping with all the changes, maybe you could bring them back into the picture while sticking with the rest of the plan. I don't really know because I have no dummy experience, but I'm just thinking that they might adjust quite well if they've still got their dummies but be absolute nightmares without them and make the whole thing really difficult to stick to, IYKWIM. You can always tackle the dummies at a later point once they've settled into the new status quo.

It'll be hard, but well worth it. Great idea to write your plan down. Maybe it'd help to have a couple of back-up compromises written into the plan so that if you're both at your wits end and about to cave, you can implement those rather than breaking from the plan altogether (like bringing the dummies back in). Maybe have a defined point when you'll implement compromises, like 'on the third night if the crying hasn't reduced in duration' or whatever you think you and your little ones can cope with. You probably wont even need these compromises coz it'll be getting progressively better each night, but if you've thought about the details, it'll help to keep you on track and know what to do if any hiccups arise.

When it gets hard, stick to your plan and just think of the blissful sleep that is in store when it's all over!!!!! I really hope it goes well for you.

It sounds like you are really struggling. I haven't been in such a difficult situation myself, but thought I would offer some support.

Whenever I have made changes it has taken me a long time to work up to it, but I think half the battle is making up your mind and sticking with it. My DD usually doesn't take long to adjust to changes, but consistency is the key.

Sounds like a great idea to tackle things when you both have some time. I was just thinking, is there anyone who could support you and look after the kids while you make these changes. Especially during the day if it has been a long night?

Good luck!

oh.. another thought..

I think it'd help if you talk and fuss about the new room leading up too. Take them on a shopping trip for new doona covers and decorations for the room (let them choose) and then get them involved in putting it all together. Then you could have a countdown to the 'big-move' and talk about how great it is going to be having their own room. You could also do some playtime in there each day so they start using and liking the space, etc.

I just wanted to wish you loads of luck....and your right, sleep depo reall does play with your moods...it does effect everything in your day to day life, and i can sooo understand what you are saying i.e not feeling much like being a good mummy. I think we all have those days - but to be having very little sleep every night, i can understand why yo ufeel like you do.
My only advice...for the first 3-4 nights you will want to chuck it all in, at 2am when DS wants booby, or DD wants the dummy, you will be sooooooo tempted to give it to them. Stick to your rules. I read something somewhere where it said kids only need a new routine done 2-3 nights in a row, and they will adapt to the new habit......:dance:..i dunno if it bears any truth - hoping it does for you.
Hoping the plan goes well....

lilias I was really worried about night weaning too, I was sure she wouldn't stand for it. But a few weeks ago I just started giving her a dummy and a cuddle back to sleep and it really worked. She fought the dummy initially but once it was in she was ok with it. After a little while she even started to sleep through after waking up 2+ times a night for this whole year. We have had a slight setback this week, I think because she (finally :rolleyes:) had her 12 month shots, but I just wanted you to know that I was absolutely dreading it and it was so much easier than I expected. I couldn't get the Bear to go to her instead of me because she would just howl for me, but she was ok without boobie in the end. If it was me I think I would concentrate on night weaning and get DH to work on keeping DD in her room/ bed. But whatever plan you are most comfortable with go for it, and don't be afraid, it might be easier than you think.
Good luck :goodluck:, I really hope that you guys are all enjoying some well deserved zzzzzzz's very very soon!

I'm sure there are some good books on the subject too - I liked the 'No Cry Sleep Solution' book for setting a routine, but there's Pinky McKay's books too which might help you.

Good luck! :pray:

A big :hug: lilias, you must be exhausted.

I just wanted to kind of repeat what others have said- it will be really tough and you have to be consistent. Don't give in, no matter what. That how I finally got ds to sleep in his bed after over a year of co sleeping. Although he is still waking and calling me in, but I can live with that ;)

Best of luck hun. Keep us posted on how you go.

Thankyou to everyone who has replied and made suggestions! We need them, lol!!

Ok the plan so far is...

We will keep the dummies for now, but have stopped giving them to the kids in the day time.

DS will be going into his big boy bed in the room with DD over shrissy time, but I have started giving him some day sleeps in there to try to get him a bit used to it.

I have stopped all bf's for DS except for the going to bed feed and wake up feed. No more boo during the day for him! I will probably stop the morning feed soon too, before he goes into his new bed.

We will try leaving 100 (lol, exaggerating but I'm sure ykwim!!) dummies in the bed so they can find them by themselves through the night.

If necessary DH or I can sleep in the bed with the kids, but we would rather not start that, so that's only if we're really desperate! (Hmmmm, Maybe we just shouldn't do it....this will be up for discussion I think!)

Our bedroom will be moved back to it's usual way, so it is just not an option to bring the kids into our room. (At the moment we have a mattress on the floor for when DD comes in and she sleeps there with DH. DS is in his cot in our room. Cot will be taken down (*sob*) and the mattress put back under the bed. Then noone will be able to come into our room to sleep except us!

That's all we have at the mo, but I will refine it and put it in writing for when we are taking the plunge....still not for a about 6weeks or so yet until we are both off work.

Again thankyou to every one for your input, I appreciate your help :grouphug:

:hug: i'll be thinking of you!!
remember to come and debrief in here when ever you need to as well!

Maybe instead of planning to sleep with them you could have a comfy chair in their room. That way you have somewhere to rest if you feel they need you in there, but you aren't actually in bed with them. It would make it easier to leave when they are asleep.

So....we have put DS's bed up in DD's room and we have brought a portable aircon for their room because it gets unbelievably HOT in there some days.
The kids love the way their room is and DD know's that the other bed is for DS, even though he's not sleeping in there yet. DS absolutely loves the room and plays in there alot during the day. Tehy especially love jumping on the beds :rolleyes:
So now everything is ready it's just a matter of waiting for the 2 weeks that DH and I have off work so we can do it together. I have stopped bringnig DS into my bed at night. He sleeps in his cot all night and some nights he has started sleeping through. If DD falls asleep in our bedroom, she will also sleep through the night, so she is just waking at night to come into our bedroom, not for any other reason. I am hoping that once they both get used to the fact that they will no longer be coming into our room they will both sleep through more often than not! :crossfingers:
Just counting down the time now......

It sounds like you have made some massive steps in the right direction already, WELL DONE!! We are going to be going through the same thing over christmas as well. There have been heaps of great suggestions already but I wonder if you would me making one too. No matter what you and your DH decide you have to be consistent. Consistency is the key - we learnt this the hard way. Set a night time routine so they know what is happening as bed time approaches. When settling your kids make sure that you and DH do exactly the same thing so that your kids know what you want/expect of them. They say you need to give at least three nights before you see any improvement/change. My kids are so stubborn it took us a week. Wishing you the best of luck. YOU CAN DO IT!!!