Help - I don't want to do 'controlled crying'

Hi.

my gorgeous boy is 4.5 months old. It took me ages to work out his sleep cues and then his general sleep routine. He's never been one to sleep quite as much as he apparently 'should' - tends to have only 45 mins at a time during the day, but that's ok. He used to be quite good at going to sleep - could put him down and he might grizzle a bit, then just turn his head to the side and go to sleep. Then it started getting a bit harder and I started to rock him until he was either asleep or right on the edge and then put him down, and that was working fine.

A few weeks ago he gave some beautiful big night-time sleeps - ten hours!!! - but now he's back to waking every 3-4 hours for a feed. He self- settles quite well during the night, although if he wakes up after 4am often won't go back to sleep...

Anyhow, the big problem now is getting him to sleep during the day, and down for the evening. As soon as I put him in his cot he starts yelling. I pick him up and rock him until he quiets, but as soon as he feels my weight shift to put him down he's yelling and screaming again. He's also started waking about 5 minutes into a sleep looking absolutely terrified and screaming.

I rang the MCHN help line yesterday and was advised to 'let him cry'. I can't do that. I'm ok with letting him grizzle to himself, but not when he's distressed and upset. So what can I do? I know that he *can* put himself to sleep and do it calmly, cos he's done it before. I can't keep going this way tho - sometimes just to ensure he actually gets some sleep during the day I end up with him on my lap. And he's getting bigger quickly - I'm not going to be able to keep up the rocking for much longer :rolleyes:

Sorry, this is a bit garbled - I'm tired and it's all a bit stressful.

I hope somebody has some suggestions!

Cheers,
Catherine

oh, and I'm 99% sure he's not sick - when he's awake, he's happy - gurgling and laughing. Not rubbing his ears, drooling a lot but can't see any other signs of teeth.

90% formula fed with BF 'top up' / comfort (long story, suffice to say not what I would have chosen, but that's the hand we were dealt)

Hayley has started doing the same thing...cries as soon as I put her down even though she is tired. We do use a dummy, but only at sleep time, I think it's becoming a bit of a safety blanket for her and gets her to go to sleep (I think it's the sucking action), I don't want her to get too dependant, but at the same time I'm using the mantra "whatever works"!

Once she is in her cot I tuck her in, pop in her dummy and if she starts crying I'll pat her back, as she has started to roll onto her side to go to sleep and kind of scruffle her face into the mattress. Looks quite cute. Lol. if she gets really distressed then I'll pick her up and when she has stopped crying put her back down, although usually as soon as I pick her up she is bright eyed and chatting away again! She sometimes seems to go to sleep, then will be 'awake' and crying in 5 minutes or so, like she has given herself a fright. I used to be able to stick her dummy back in and she would go off to sleep with no troubles, but now I have to go through the whole re-settling routine again.

Will he settle if you stand there patting the side of his tummy/bottom? I dont know if it does much good but I also make "shhhh" noises while I'm patting her. She used to be such a good self settler, I'd put her down and she would go to sleep pretty much straight away, now it can take 10-15 mins to get her to sleep, unless I give up and take her out to the lounge room for a bit and try again in 15-20 minutes.

We've also started having early mornings...4.30 this morning! Gave her a feed but she didn't go back to sleep until nearly 6am, and then was awake again at 6.50!

Sorry I probably wasn't much help, I just hope it is a phase they are going through and will be back to their old selves in no time! Might be something to do with starting teething??

DD would self settle for a time aswell, but it got harder and harder, now she doesnt self settle atall, i BF her to sleep and when she wakes in the night she comes in with us. I guess if i had gone about it in a different way i could have got her selfe settling again, but i am happy with it this way...might be different if i had #2!!! So...not much help either,sorry...but im sure there are ways to solve it with out CIO! hopefully you will find that magic thing to solve it....till then, big hugs :)

At about 4 mnths they tend to go through some major developmental phases and this can cause problems with sleep. My DS does not a 'normal' sleeper and I always found it hard to read his cues.

I am a big believer in do what works for you, so if that is patting them or shhhing them to sleep or rocking them so be it.

:hug:

DS was exactly the same ever since he was born and up until he was about 5 months, id give him a feed and he'd fall asleep on the boob or bottle, as soon as i put him down into his cradle he'd wake up and start whingeing... to tell you the truth, i dont think there is a right or wrong way to start sleep patterns... DS would only sleep for 30-45min at a time at one stage... i used to stay up until midnight because i knew he'd wake up a couple of times from his bedtime onwards, and then i'd get a 3 hour sleep before he'd wake up around 3am... and then again at 6 and so on :o DS even fell asleep on my chest most nights when he was a newborn because there was no other way either of us would get any sleep... but slowly but surely we worked out a routine for him, (no effort involved on my behalf, exept the hours of lost sleep from midnight feeds) he now has his dummy & blanky, sleeps 10-12 hours a night and another 2-4 during the day, and a bottle before bed, sometimes he still wakes up in the middle of the night demanding a bottle but thats ok :)

people kept telling me to get him into a routine before he was 6 months because apparently it ruins their sleeping patterns for the entire childhood... my theory.. just wing it... it all works out in the end.. and the time will fly by and you won't even remember all those sleepless nights.

i remember the first time DS slept all night, i mean the whole 10 hours! it was awesome! then he woke up three times the next night...
i hope this little ramble helped.

cheers

cate, no real suggestions from me but wanted to offer a big :hug: because we're going through a similar thing here.

i can't bring myself to do controlled crying & i am working on the basis that what melskys says is true - things will work themselves out in their own time. in the meantime, i am doing whatever i need to & this seems to change as we go along as well (i.e. day sleeps in the pram one week, next week being held, rocking to sleep one week, feeding to sleep the next etc!)

you guys rock!

Somehow it's so much more reassuring to hear "do what works" from other people than it is to believe it yourself, iykwim.

I'm so anti the whole CIO approach, even more so after reading "The Science of Parenting" - which basically says that CIO has a permanent, detrimental effect on their psychological development.

We will keep trying to figure out what he needs, and hope that it's 'just a phase' :D

:hug: youre doing a great job! Listen to your mummy instincts, and do whatever you feel comfortable doing. And don't listen to the "should" police! :)

we are having similar issues here - i think it is the age for it
i just repeat the mantra 'this too shall pass' and do what works on any given day..
shhhh and pattting works some of the time, feed to sleep often and sometimes i give up! or let him have a sleep in his swing

That happened with us aswell, everything changed at 4 months. Just do what you need to do to get through this stage. Hope you get some sleep soon!

you're all so wonderfully supportive - and good to see some of my 'baby buddies' here too - not good that you're dealing with the same issue, but reassuring I guess :lol:

After reading the posts this morning I gave myself a little talking to about listening to the 'should police' (love that term sneakysparkle!) When it was time for Z to have a snooze I just got into bed with him and fed him to sleep. Couldn't sleep myself so left him to it once he was in a deep sleep and he went for TWO HOURS!!! It feels so much better to look at it in a more positive light, and to be able to do something which helps him to get to sleep calmly. For some reason he doesn't seem to like it as much to feed to sleep if I'm sitting up, but I can deal with that!

So, 'this too shall pass' will become my new mantra (it used to be 'it is what it is').

BB was my saviour for this exact reason. Everytime I tried to do the 'right' thing by the 'should' police it just stressed me out more. I would get on BB and get the support I needed and I would go with the flow and everyone was much happier :dance:

I know my DS is 2 now, but I remember very well that his sleep went nutso at 4 months too!! I just went with what I thought was right. I couldn't bring myself to do the controlled crying thing although a few people told me I 'should'.

I ended up rocking, patting, then co-sleeping. I also used to sit on the couch with DS asleep on me, just so he would during the day. I never thoughth it would end.....but yes, it did!

DS is now an independant little person who puts himself to sleep with no trouble. It did take till he was 22 months but that is how it went and I wouldn't change a thing.

DD2 (16 weeks) is exactly the same. I was told that once they get the a certain age its stops? So its just a waiting game? Heres hoping hey??

Just wanted to chime in with all the rest - 4 months seems to be the age for it. DS had pretty rough sleep for quite a few months at about the same age, now it's variable but his day sleeps have really improved from 40min naps all day to 1.5-2.5hr sleeps most days. He's still waking overnight but it varies between 1-3 feeds (lately it's been 3 again :rolleyes: ). I just keep reminding myself that sleep is developmental like everything else and that if I ride him out, do what works in the short term, he'll be sleeping through eventually.

There are some good books around if you're interested that use gentle methods to help promote sleep. I found these useful to give me other options and ideas and to educate me about what is a typical sleep pattern for babies (and it's not sleeping 10 hours straight which DS has hardly ever done so that made me feel better :lol: ).

You're doing a great job!

baby hammock (gentle rocking motion)

co-sleeping

breastfeeding to sleep (even if he's not really drinking, just for comfort)

napping with him during the day, co-sleeping

i believe CIO is teaching a baby "learned helplessness" - why cry, no-one will help me, no-one loves me". i've met people who leave their baby for TWELVE HOURS, no checking, nothing. baby could choke, fall, be in a full nappy, anything. :rolleyes:

i'm going to take a wild guess, that your bub is a bit upset to be separated from you, him in the cot, you not in the cot. i wonder if he would calm down, if you slept together.

co-sleeping comes in many different shades.
you might do it ONLY in the daytime
you might do it ONLY at night
set yourself up to feel safe about it.
pillows on edges of bed, or put mattress on the floor
there are special mini cot things you put in the bed too, to avoid the risk of rolling on your bub, or them rolling away.
i put the same anti roll mat i had for the cot (to keep her on her back), in my bed, to keep her on her back also.

Keep some nappychanging stuff in your room if you co-sleep, so you can do wet changes quickly there, avoid having to get up.

Mattress protector mats (used for toilet training) are good to put on YOUR bed, for co-sleeping too. i got a swaddlebees one for about $35. Child has a posset on it, you just chuck whole mat in the wash, no problem.

keep strong, there are many of us who are anti CIO, you are not alone.

i went to a PND clinic, where i had an entire staff of midwives, who all harrassed me to use CIO for the two weeks we were there. Despite their outdated thinking, it's NOT the only method to use.

thanks again everybody. It really helps to get through the rough patches when everybody on this site is so supportive!

We had started co-sleeping, and then suddenly he slept through the night in his cot... but that's all gone out the window now :rolleyes:

looks like we might return to co-sleeping for a while - no skin off my nose! Fed him to sleep in the big bed last night and then transferred him to the cot when I went to bed. Unfortunately he woke up, but gave him a bottle and he went back to sleep for another 3 hours. The rest of the night wasn't so hot and eventually he came into bed with me at 5am. It's silly, but I guess I'm resisting the obvious solution because of the memory of that one week of him sleeping solidly all night in his cot and each night hoping that tonight will be the night he does it again :doh:

I think I will buy the wonder weeks book. Sounds like that might be really helpful.

I am a firm believer of do what works!!! they do grow out of it, although at the time it seems that they might not???:doh: I went the controlled crying with the older kids, but we were'nt very successful because i could'nt stand it. Its just to cruel, with my last DD we kind of co-sleep she has a cot next to our bed and sleeps with us whenever... I would feed her to sleep wait about 10 mins then she is in deep sleep and transfer her to the cot. Some days I slept with her (but that was for me) I got to a stage where I refused to feed her when she woke, perhaps your man is getting around that stage and probablly is after the comfort more??
My DD is 14 months now and sleeps well in her cot and with us, she is relaxed and will happily play in her cot...Thats another suggestion, let him play in his cot, keep something that is really fun just for in there, you could stay intially then leave for brrief periods of time, make sure you say "mummy is going to the toilet" etc before you leave then come back in a few mins, gradually build the time up... also they say boys really benifit from leg wrapping, I beleive it s the security?? Put the fan/ aircon on wrapp his little legs and see if it makes a difference.
Good luck!!!! remember in a few months time you will wonder why you were worried about it all.

Pinky McKay's book 'Sleeping Like a Baby' is a good one too :)

Argh, I sympathise!

I have to say, DS was fabulous at sleeping until exactly 4.5 months when he turned to crapola and I remember it very well!

"this too shall pass" is the best mantra ever...though we need reminding in the midst of sleep deprivation.DS has continued to be up and down depending on whatever is happening for him (and you don't always know at the time. Teeth/discomfort/picking up on emotional stress/growth stuff etc) - this is partly why CC and CIO are rough on kids because they don't tend to take possible factors into consideration.

It IS a phase and it WILL pass. So do what you need to do to get through it and survive :)
And then one night, you'll wake up in a panic because they slept for so long!

LOL

PS I second Pinky's books being tops