Help our CC is now banning cloth nappies as of March

Not happy at all!!!

This afternoon when I went to pick up DD one fo the carers was changing DD's bot and said that she had heard the the CC is going to ban "these types of nappies - aka Cloth Nappies" in the new year :angry:, with the reason being... OHS :o

I am just in shock, there are only a handful of us using cloth, and this is a centre that used to offer a full cloth service but they stopped it as people weren't taking it up.

So why the complete turn around :wall:

So now I need to get my ammunition together should this rumour become more than just a rumour, does anyone have the stats on how much landfill is created by using one nappy a day, and other insanely awesome reasons as to why they should let us still use cloth PLEASE!!!!!!!

TIA

OHS? Are you serious? What bs! the daycare that I was going to send ds to said no to cloth coz "it's too much work and dangerous"... what? you take the nappy off, put it in the dry pail - so NO soaking put the lid back on... With sposies, you take the nappy off and put it in the bin. The only difference is that cloth is going into a dry bucket that I take home.

Def find out more and ask LOTS of questions of management!

Good luck!

I heard this too!!! Whats going on?!?!?! Isn't everyone about been eco friendly these days??/ I don't understand why they think it's an OHS issue:rolleyes:

I think it would come down to a contaminated waste/health and safety issue?

You could ask them what they used to do back before disposables were more common...GL

Beema,

I think Gigi has done a fair bit of research into cloth nappies at CC so maybe PM her or see if she pops in?

Good luck, that's poor form on the part of the CC.

Thankyou for your feedback so far girls, keep it coming :D

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OHS? Are you serious? What bs! the daycare that I was going to send ds to said no to cloth coz "it's too much work and dangerous"... what? you take the nappy off, put it in the dry pail - so NO soaking put the lid back on... With sposies, you take the nappy off and put it in the bin. The only difference is that cloth is going into a dry bucket that I take home.

Def find out more and ask LOTS of questions of management!

Good luck!

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Definitely hardly any more effort at all, I provide a wet bag for the nappies and as requested each dirty nappy goes into it's own bag in the wet bag, so there is no "contamination" putting additional soiled nappies in the wet bag.

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I heard this too!!! Whats going on?!?!?! Isn't everyone about been eco friendly these days??/ I don't understand why they think it's an OHS issue:rolleyes:

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Really, which state in the Centre in that you have heard about it, I am wondering where this decision is coming from....

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I think it would come down to a contaminated waste/health and safety issue?

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I think I have that covered with the wet bags/and additional bags for each nappy?

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You could ask them what they used to do back before disposables were more common...GL

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Exactly, they used to offer a full cloth service but only stopped it as not enough people were using it, I would have if it was running when DD started.

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Beema,

I think Gigi has done a fair bit of research into cloth nappies at CC so maybe PM her or see if she pops in?

Good luck, that's poor form on the part of the CC.

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Thankyou for that lb, Gigi has helped me other with some cloth nappy suggestions int he past and has ben thoroughly helpful, I will track her down and see what info she has, thankyou for the suggestion :D

I think it is pretty poor form too on the CCC :shakehead:

I work in OHS and being a cloth user i would find it diffficult to believe that there would be a different OHS implication to that of a sposie... they are still removing the nappy and still cleaning the bum of the child... its just what is done with it afterwards... and TBH i cant find a difference.
one you chuck in a bin, the other you chuck in a plastic bag. Fair enoough if they are having an issue with the poo - as in cleaning it off, but t should be put down the toilet anyway, cloth or sposie, so there is no difference.

In hospital if a patient has beeing incontinent, we (nurses) have to clean them up - we use a face washer and change the linen... there is NO difference, infact it is possibly more of an issue in hospital as many have VRE... there OHS implication in that

Would like to hear their rationale - actually i will bring it up with my boss tomorrow and see what she has to say about it...

I live in Sydney and heard this when talking to other mums too

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I work in OHS and being a cloth user i would find it diffficult to believe that there would be a different OHS implication to that of a sposie... they are still removing the nappy and still cleaning the bum of the child... its just what is done with it afterwards... and TBH i cant find a difference.
one you chuck in a bin, the other you chuck in a plastic bag. Fair enoough if they are having an issue with the poo - as in cleaning it off, but t should be put down the toilet anyway, cloth or sposie, so there is no difference.

Would like to hear their rationale

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Thanks SJ Only the firm poo's are put in the loo, the others come home and I clean them as soon as they get home., as soona s I get more information I will have a chat if they bring up the OHS.

When we started FDC for my DS they said no to cloth for "health reasons". So I questioned "what health reasons?" Like others have said, there is absolutely no difference between MCN and sposies, except MCNs goes in a wet bag, not in the bin. They couldn't come up with anything, any real reason :dunno: so I just insisted that we were going to use cloth. I was quite prepared to walk away and find another care option but luckily they backed down and it's never been a problem. And why would it be anyway? :D

I stumbled acrooss this thread with interest (as a profesional bum wiper).

What is the set up of the 'wet bag'? How are things done. Are the 'contributions' gotten rid of first ie dow the loo and then the cloth nappies put in the wet bag.

Wrapping up a disposable and into a bag straight up may be perceived as a risk reduction method.

I can see how the child care staff (if the above is the way) can cite OH&S reasons.

More concern exists with rotavirus spread now. Similarly, fecal matter isn't exactly clean waste, so handling it more than required can be perceived as a risk. If stools aren't formed for example, this is a hazard as well with droplet spread.

If this facility is making a decision based on risk then it should have done a risk assessment and have that available. It might not be to your liking however if it is sound then in some ways you may find your choices limited.

I remember after having handled all sorts of body fluids that the enrolled (Dvision 2 nurses) used to get Nausea Allowance for cleaning up exactly the same as me as a Division 1 nurse! Hard to get my head around, but thats just the way it fell!

Hi Stretcher Bearer,

Our FDC (Family Day Care) lady puts the MCN (Modern Cloth Nappy) any wipes she uses, and if there is a poo, a disposable glove, all wrapped inside the nappy in one of those small plastic bags that are often used with disposable nappies. They then go in the wetbag. A wetbag is just a waterproof bag with a zipper, I put a tissue with some lavender oil on it inside to keep it smelling nice-ish. The MCN nappies we use, Green Kids Pockets, are functionally exactly like a disposable. They are the same shape, with velcro tabs, you use them exactly like you would use a disposable.

At the end of the day I pull everything apart (yuckko!!!) I put the wipes and glove in the bin, the poo in the toilet and the nappies in the wash.

I think this is much more healthy and hygienic because the poo ends up in the toilet, where it should be and not (illegally?) in the bin.

I think all of the resistance to cloth at daycare is because people just don't know about MCN and how they work. They think when you say "cloth nappies" you mean terry toweling flats with pins and plastic pilchards. I just can't see how anyone could argue that they can't use cloth (MCN) for "health reasons" or any other reasons either for that matter.

I'm not 100% sure, but if you look through Quality Assurance standards, you may be able to use "continuation of care from home to centre", ie, using cloth at home to the centre would form part of their QA standards. I haven't time now, but I'll have a look later and see what I can find.

I'm a FDC provider, and would happily use cloth. I don't see the difference with cloth or disposable. I put on gloves whichever "style" of nappy it is, the gloves are removed once the nappy has been dealt with (and I use both cloth and disposable). The change mat is disinfected after each use, so no chance of cross contaimination there.
I have also in the past when I've had a lot of children in disposables sent the dirty ones home at the end of the day, to me, a bag of dirty disposables poses more risk then a wet bag/bucket full of cloth nappies.

It will be interesting to see what is said from our scheme manager when she realises I have my baby in cloth nappies next year when I return to work.

:help:

It has happened I received a letter this morning when I dropped of DD at CC, the cloth nappy ban will be as of March. What has made me more angy is that DD came home yesterday wearing a disposible nappy, from which she now has a horrendous nappy rash, and two completely clean dry fressh MCNs :(

I was sooo upset when I saw her bum last night it is horrible! Yet she went in the morning and it was fine :cry:

So now I have to write a letter as to why we should be allowed to use cloth, I am happy to take a bucket for it and separate bags for each nappy (eco biodegradable ones) so it would be the exact same thingas putting them in the bin, no extra handling or touching of the nappies, but I really don't know if I will have a chance or not. So I amd having to reasearch and see if there are alternative CC centres who do allow/encourage cloth nappies :pray:

If anyone has any suggestions on items to include in my letter please post or if you have encountered this before and let me know :D I really really don't want to move her as she is settled within the centre, but FT we haven't used FT disposibles on her for a very long time.... It is a cost implication as I have bought cloth to see her through for TT.... :(

Can you protest and say it is due to allergy reasons to the disposable nappies? They make provision for sunscreen allergies so this could come under a similar thing. It's just not fair that your DD ends up with a sore rash from being put in a disposable nappy :(

I would be asking your care centre to provide reference to the relevant legislation that has prompted their decision - because to my knowledge it is not legal for a centre to refuse to use cloth.

I believe CCCs have a dispensation from any Council requirements to dispose of solid waste in the toilet, for contamination/excessive handling reasons (change & nappy disposal areas are not always immediately convenient to toilet facilities, which are part of the accessible area of the facility, as they have to be separate from the areas accessible to children, so if the carer has to travel through the accessible area in order to dispose of waste this presents a contamination risk).

So long as their handling of cloth is consistent with their handling of sposies, which it is if they roll the nappy up without disposing of waste, deposit in a sealable container consistent with that used for sposies which is removed by the parent at the end of the day for cleaning - they have no legal grounds for refusing to use cloth.

I think that is one of the stances I wil have to take, I am just really dissappointed at this centre used to provide a FULL cloth service, and now a complete turn around :wall: and there are only a couple of us who use cloth...

That's terrible :( I hope you can sort it out!

Thankyou so much for that information Suse, that is really going to help me out a lot :hug: so as long as I can demonstrate that it is possible to achieve the same hygeine levels in relationto disposables there can't be an argument there, the other arguement they have this is direct from the letter:

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"For OH&S reasons for both staff and children it is not acceptable for children to arrive in our centre in a cloth nappy and for infants to wear them throughout the day.
Cloth nappies, even with plastic pants can leak faeces and urine and therefore germs from the bowel being transferred to surfaces within the centre. It is not acceptable for cloth nappies with urine and/orfaeces to site in a plastic bag in a childs bag all day.

We appreciate that clothe nappies are more environmentally friendly than disposible nappies, however due to the health and safety of all concerned we adopted the policy to not allow the use of them. Management has followed health and hygeine proceedures in nappy changing in accordance with recommendations from recognised health authorities - particularly "staying healthy in chaildcare". The amendment to this policy will be found in the reprint of the parent handbook after March 2010"

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Thanks Heaven I really hope so too :hug:

sorry havent read all the post but think this is so stupid! I worked in an occasonal care once and they send home all nappies, they place them back in the childs bag after changing, i would think this more of a health hazard. However when working in LDC some parents would use cloth even though we provided spossie through the day. we would just bag it up and leave it in a empty bucket for them to collect at the end of the day. easy.

I cant believ this! and CC is menat to be part of the comunity and continuing what you do at home??

They raise some points that need to be responded to I think -

Yes, cloth nappies leak at times, but so do sposies. Leaks are prevented by regular changing so the general way cloth nappies would leak is if the babies aren't changed regularly enough. I think it could be asserted that they are NOT changed regularly enough if your DD is coming home with nappy rash even in sposies.

So we have gathered that all nappies leak from time to time - that's why you provide a clean change of clothes. If all nappies leak from time to time and babies need their clothes changed then dirty, wet clothes need to be stored in the babies bags all day until home time. How is this different from storing a nappy in a proper, sealed wet bag?

Many babies have reactions to sposies (especially cheap ones that I presume the centre uses for cost reduction reasons) so what is their policy on how to deal with children who have reactions to disposable nappies? If they don't accept children into care who can't use disposable nappies then that is discrimination. What is their policy around that?

I would be contacting the other clothie users and combining forces to put together a response. Is this a private centre or a community centre? If it is a community or council centre then lobby your councillor as well.

My guess, and it's only a guess as it's not something that has come up in my centre, is that it is due to contamination and health issues.
It is a dept rule here in Qld that any soiled items, from any age group must be kept in sealed containers and out of the reach of children to avoid infection.
Perhaps it is a limited space to keep enough nappy pails for your centre - potentially they may have to have up to 10 (depending on what state your in) buckets in each room.

We;ve have parents use cloth in our centre and never really had an issue with it - other than parents who don't supply enough covers and we once had the issue of a bub leaving a wet spot on the floor every time she wee'd.

If you have a centre with a young staff, they will be less likely to be accommodating as they just don't know what to do with cloth!


You also must consider the other point of view from the parent who is anti cloth - there are some out there who find them disgusting, a centre may find itself in a difficult situation where parents have complained about the hygeine involved with cloth use - sounds ridiculous but there are some very pedantic people around.

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Management has followed health and hygeine proceedures in nappy changing in accordance with recommendations from recognised health authorities - particularly "staying healthy in chaildcare".

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Went and looked that up for you... this is what it has to say...

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Disposable nappies may reduce the risk of infections as disposable nappies do not ‘leak’as easily as cloth nappies and are able to be disposed of immediately.

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Also

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Cloth napp ies
If a parent provides cloth nappies for their child’s use, ensure the parent also provides ‘plastic pants’ to help prevent faeces, and therefore germs, from leaking. Wearing clothing over plastic pants also reduces the number of germs from the bowel being transferred to surfaces in the centre. It is a good idea for the nappy and the plastic pants to be covered with clothing at all times. Parents need to be aware that cloth nappies with urine and/or faeces will not be rinsed or washed at the centre. They are to be placed into a plastic bag and laundered at home.

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Interestingly, its due to be reviewed this year.

A search of the NHMRC shows that the only mention of cloth nappies is in the aforementioned publication - and only the parts pasted here refer to cloth nappies.

One heck of a policy they have developed from one sentence O.o

I think there's a "cloth nappy" definition problem here. There is a huuuuuuge difference between traditional cloth nappies, i.e. terry toweling flats with pins and plastic pilchards, and modern cloth nappies. In my experience disposables leak just as much as MCNs and so the argument is null and void. :dunno:

:goodluck: Goodluck Beema, geez, I'm mad for you too. :protest:

I agree, its the definition of a cloth nappy that seems to be questionable.
Do the recommendations define what an cloth nappy is? I bet its not an AIO MCN.

I want to now what research has been done that shows disposable nappies leak less than MCNs?
There's no reason they cant treat the cloth nappy exactly as the disposible one, wrap it in a nappysack etc, just put it in your wetbag not the bin.

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Cloth nappies, even with plastic pants can leak faeces and urine and therefore germs from the bowel being transferred to surfaces within the centre.

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A flawed logic because disposable nappies can leak also. There is just as much chance of a child walking into the bathroom area and possibly onto a floor that hasn't been cleaned properly (or the staff hasn't had a chance to clean it as I witnessed in my childs centre once) after another child has peed on it, then walking that through other surfaces in the centre.

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It is not acceptable for cloth nappies with urine and/or faeces to sit in a plastic bag in a childs bag all day.

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So by that rationale they would need to dispose of all clothing that gets soiled too, not place them in a plastic bag to be taken home and laundered :o

Thankyou all so much for your information, I am preparing the letter shortly and hope to post something up tonight or tomorrow morning. :hug:

Beema - I forgot to add, the publication they are referring to was published in 06... so its extremely likely that MCNs were not considered in the 4th edition review.

Thankyou Inertia :hug:

I have prepared a response but popped it into a new thread here so that I can keep the feedback on the letter and this thread separate, so it is easy to get through, if anyone is not happy with a reference I have made or if you have some constructive criticism I really appreciate it.
TIA xxoo

No they are supposed to put in seperate plastic bags, named, in a soiled items container which is sealed and out of the reach of children, for parents to collect in the afternoon.

It is quite yuck really, as parents have to dig through the other bags to find theirs!