Neccessity of internal examinations in labour?

Just looking for info on the medical advantages/need for internal examinations in labour. I understand that they can check how dilated you are- but is this info needed, and what other info are they getting.

i have been reading Ina May's guide to childbirth, which is lovely and makes me want to move to the Farm, but i wonder if it is possible to have this sort of birth in a hospital here.

I have already refused an internal examination at one of my check ups (and felt quite proud for having been able to do so). I have also agreed to one with a caring dr, when there was a need for one- so i am not saying no totally- just i want to know why and when they need to be done.

I was reading an article on birth rape and traumatic births, and how women in this society are often 'groomed' to allow professionals (or feel they have no choice to object) to perform acts they feel uncomfortable with at the time. I am trying to empower myself so that i am comfortable in saying no- or asking for more info.

Even on this site, people post that you won't care what you are wearing- or what you are doing during labour, and in another post talked about 'the humiliation starting early in pregnancy'. This doesn't empower first timers in thinking they can have a safe birthing experience whilst feeling respected and non fearful.

Anyway, i have rambled but back to the original question of what is the purpose of internal exams, and how necessary are they?

ta,

Kate

Sometimes they are helpful...
Mostly an intune care provider can tell with a fair amount of accuracy how far advanced a womans' labour is by: the sounds she is making - when a woman is making high pitched screaming yelling sounds - often that is fear based and often labour is not as far along as perhaps the Mama would expect. Deep low gutteral sounds show me a woman is progressing well and close to dilatation... Grunts show that a woman's urge to push has begun. Usually that is a sign that dilatation has been reached or is nearing...
A woman often gets really restless just prior to second stage. Ofte it's now that a woman says: "I want my undies back I'm going home"... (me! :redface:), or says I can't do this. I want it to stop et etc...

Sometimes a woman has what is called an anterior lip - this happens sometimes with posterior babies a little more frequently than anterior babies.. It happens when woman gets pushy without her body wanting to... A VE can tell us if that is so.

Also if a woman is having a protracted labour it can perhaps help to know how far along she is..
Having said that - Women have perfectly designed bodies & a cervix can go from 2 cm to 9cm in a very short amount of time. I find that helping a woman with her head most often sorts out her body...

Mostly VE;s are not needed - when you have a primary care giver. A midwife that you know and trust & you have developed a relationship with. OR a Doula who you know & trust.
Those that are wise to birth matters listen with their ears & heart , feel with their hands & get a feel for what is happening. This is why the medicalisation of birth has made it so tough. It has taken the intuit out of birth & the primal call of birth for women.

Your job as a Mama preparing for her birth is to seek out good support - so you have a wise woman to listen for you and guide you.

You need to really tune into your body now. Learn to say NO! I am glad you felt you could do that when it didn't feel right for you.

I would care about being stark naked in a room full of people I didn't know. However, I haven't had that so I was fine to be. I think you go with thr flow. If in labour you are asked for a VE - ask why? Why do I need this? If the MW says I am thinking you have an AL - then you can decide if you are ok for her to coax your cervix back during a Cx.

Mostly though I think that your vagina is your sacred space - keep others fingers out during labour unless it is necessary! :hug:

Firstly - good on you for posting this - its something I believe women should think more about. It sounds like you are doing alot of preparation to make your birth an empowering one.

Incase it helps you to read about one persons experience:

There was no mention of a VE at any of my pre labour appointments at the birth centre I attended for my second labour. I didn't have a VE until I was halfway through my labour, and it was at my request. My midwife told me early on that the ball was in my court, and that anytime I wished to know how dialated I was, she would perform a VE for me. I only did so because I had been having consistent contractions for a matter of hours, and thought the outcome may provide further encouragement - plus, I was just curious by that point. She assured me however that if I was not comfortable having one, that would be fine - that my body would tell me when the time was right to start pushing, and she reminded me that many women the world over give birth without having a single hand laid on them!
Having a VE turned out to be a negative for me, as I was not as far dialated as I thought, and this disappointment completely knocked me out of my focused 'birth zone' - iykwim. I immediately started to have destructive thoughts like "Imagine how much further I have to go if its taken me this long to get to this point.." "I don't think I'll be able to make it to the end afterall.." (drug-free, that is). Luckily I was able to force myself to snap out of it and focus inward on coping with the pain again.

I agree that women are groomed for VE's by OB's - and what i essentially think they are grooming them for is intervention - or ultimately - induction.
I have heard and read some deeply disturbing things from women. One woman claimed after her 37 week appointment that "my OB thinks I may need to be induced as dialation wasn't progressing very well" Firstly - why the heck would her cervix be expected to start dialating 3 weeks before her estimated due date? And secondly, how is it that women can be so unempowered and uneducated that they allow this? :wall: Birth rape is not such a radical term - when you think about it logically - in the least it is an abuse of power.

Besides, what is the point of knowing how ripe the cervix is anyway? Its not going to change anything. Ultimately, the body will go into labour and the cervix will start dialating when it is ready to do so. 'Checking' to see how ripe or dialated a woman is only serves to push her toward artificial intervention (gels, drips, stretch and sweeps etc) if her body is found to not be performing as it 'should' according to some arbitrary timetable set by a scanning machine. Its complete nonsense - and dangerous, I believe. Touching a woman unecessarily in the delicate area that holds her baby in her womb is just unwise and invasive - to say the least. Obviously once labour has begun spontaneously a VE cannot disrupt the natural order of things - although some birth activists would beg to differ.

Of course not all OB's are this way inclined, but in my experience midwife-led care is much more women-centred in this respect. The woman's body is viewed as her 'sacred space' as Innana put it, and intervention is only performed when deemed absolutely necessary, or if desired.

He he - Obviously you can see I'm quite passionate about this issue and about empowering women to take control of their bodies and their birthing experience!! I have had 2 very different birthing experiences - the invasive and the empowering, so I'd like to think I can help prevent others from having a negative birth experience.

Thanks for starting this dialogue... I wish you an empowering labour. Trust in your body, your baby and mother nature. Combined they are infinitely wiser than any machine or person standing by in a white coat. Request a VE during labour if you wish - but don't forget that you are in control, and it won't change anything physically - but perhaps mentally, for better or worse!!

XX

Vaginal Exams - When Are They Really Necessary?

Ahhh Inanna I so wish you could have flown to Tassie to be with me a week ago - I needed you to make my fear go away!!!!!!

My midwife told me that they don't do VE's because of everything that Inanna said in her post.

However, I was running on fear and I requested one. She agreed to do it because I was fairly insistent, and luckily I was 7-8 cm. I am glad that I DID get it, because before then I was pretty sure that I was still in prelabour - and having a hard time dealing with the pain because of the "prelabour" and freaking out about what was to come - so it helped me get my head straight, and realise that my body WAS working, it WAS doing what it was supposed to.

So I think depending on your personal circumstances (I had never laboured before, so didn't have a clue if my body could dilate nicely) they can be a good thing.

In my personal experience in both labour 1 and 2, VE's were performed to determine how ripe my cervix was as both bubs 'needed' to be induced due to IUGR. I was okay with that (well, not really okay about being induced but it was certainly a better option than a c/s). I wasn't given a VE after being induced and had a relatively quick 4.5hr labour. The MW was wonderful and watched me, asked a few questions and could see what stage I was at.

2nd labour (also induced) I had many VE's (and I WISH I had said 'NO'), very frustrating.....no progress. Synto turned on and off and 1 midwife who lived in the dark ages and couldnt even read the CTG machine (DH found a ruler and 'taught' her how to read it....I mean 'COME ON!)

Anyway, as JB said, it was disappointing and really does your head in. 33 hours after initial synto induction I convinced myself that I was heading towards a c/s. I had refused all drugs (as I had laboured without it with my first) and I thought my time was up. Luckily Dr was FABULOUS and so was MW who had just come on duty and talked me into believing in my ability again.

VE's are really uncomfortable normally, but during labour they are horrendous. Personally I think they hurt more than labour itself.

BUT sometimes they are necesary. It's up to you to decide what you want and how you are treated before and during labour.

There are some valid reasons for VE's, however most experienced midwives don't NEED to do one to check progress. They can tell from the behaviour of the woman in labour. The thing with a VE is that it's only as accurate as the person who gives in. Say you're looking at a piece of string, and I ask you to estimate how long it is, and I ask 5 other people to estimate as well. Chances are that everyone will have a different estimation.

VE's might show you to be 5cm at one exam, but that doesn't mean that you won't dilate to 10 in the next half hour ... they are shown time and time again to be a very poorly evidence based method of assessing labour progression.

You can hire a midwife and have a homebirth, that's about the closest you'll get to the farm in Australia .... I reckon it's good!

Kate I want the farm too my love... In my early twenties I dreamed of going there...

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Kate I want the farm too my love... In my early twenties I dreamed of going there...

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Your job as a Mama preparing for her birth is to seek out good support - so you have a wise woman to listen for you and guide you.

You need to really tune into your body now. Learn to say NO! I am glad you felt you could do that when it didn't feel right for you.

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Thank you for all your replies, makes me feel less freaky. Getting info on VE from a few different experiences assists in helping me to work out where my comfort level, and preferences are.

I am searching and seeking out people that will guide me in the time leading up to, and the time of the birth, and after. Testing the waters with people who are close to me to see if and how they will support me and my choices.

I am also talking to a student midwife, and another midwife to see if they are the right people to join us (me, DH and bub).

unfortunately there are financial considerations, distance to hospital if required, and pre-existing conditions that i have to also add in, but a homebirth is still on my possibility list.

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Ahhh Inanna I so wish you could have flown to Tassie to be with me a week ago - I needed you to make my fear go away!!!!!!

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If i do decide on hospital, i have some sayings that i want to have written out to remind me if things go alittle array. I think some of Inanna's posts may be printed out and added to my hospital bag, cos you never know when her words will come in handy!

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Mostly though I think that your vagina is your sacred space - keep others fingers out during labour unless it is necessary!

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Well that's a lovely thing to say Kate - but you know what you have that wisdom inside of you - it grew at the same time as your ovaries did.. It is intrinsically printed on your DNA... It just needs to be awakened. :hug:

Maybe we should get Kelly together & we can open a farm... Now there is a thought. I can see me there working with the psychadelic rushes! I love the way Spiritual Midwifery is written... :hug:

Kate - if you don't go for the homebirth perhaps you would like to consider a midwife-led birthing centre attached to a public hospital? I had my very empowering second birth at one and took my doula with me. It was a fantastic experience to be surrounded by wise and gentle women and the great home-like facilities they had there.
Just thought I'd mention it. That way if all goes well (as it should!) you may feel more comfortable about a homebirth 2nd time around.
Best wishes whatever you decide!

Thanks Jellybean

As i am considered 'high risk' due to a rare neurological condition (so there is not alot of info available on women with the condition having babies), i am not eligible for a birthing centre birth. The info that i have acquired says that the condition doesn't greatly affect the birthing process (and i am pretty good at reading my body, and working with it) but the medicos are being 'conservative'.

So, i think my options are birth at home, or at a primary hospital. My partner has doubts about a homebirth for a first birth (even though his siblings were born at home), and i am scared that i won't be able to relax enough in a hospital. So, we still working through the options.

Kate if i were you , and being open to a HB i would go with that for your first. it is much better to have tried everything 1st time and had an empowering birth then go in to the hospital setting not totally sure about it then getting steamrolled into an experience that you didnt want.

i wish i had done it 1st time round.. i have a close friend who was the same and she ended up being forced in to a c/s due to fail to wait. we both went on to have glorious HBs with our 2nd babies and she is pg with #3.. you can guess where that is being born..

Kate, although I am quite comfortable with VEs, having had plenty over the years for a gynae issue, I wasn't wanting to have more than necessary during pg and labour. My Ob never did one while I was pg, and only one when I was in early labour (3cms) as it was preterm labour. My midwife then did two more, one at 7 cms, at my request, and another to check I was fully dilated, because I was feeling pushy for some time, but not excessively so (my posterior, malpositioned baby made the transition to second stage tricky). All my VEs were performed inbetween contractions, which I was most pleased about, and were done in a very calm, gentle, and unobtrusive manner. And they all left me feeling quite pleased with the progress my body was making. In fact, after the one at 7cms that I requested, I felt fantastic, like I could really do this drug free!

So yeah, I would agree with all of Inanna's words, but if necessary, and done nicely, VEs can be useful :)

I actually requested a VE during DD5's labour.... My M/W knew I wasn't into the idea & when she said: "are you sure?" I growled YES! It was hideous - mainly as I had to recline and that was just awful after being on all fours in the tub... She estimated I was 7cms which deflated me no end...
I then said outloud: "I just have to do this don't I"... (:lol: what the hell else choice did I have!") My SIL (who has never birthed but has been at my births - nodded dutifully "well.. yes?) With the next contraction I felt an overwhelming urge to push and out she came into the birthing tub... Because the room was only candle lit (my request) & I had meconium in my amniotic fluid the water was murky... I said "it's out"... Very unceremonious I know... With that my M/w began fishing around in the water - as I bought her out to breath her first breath...

So, I too had the experience with that birth that the VE actually promted me to get on with the job of birhting. (I was having such a good time labouring - savouring my children, breastfeeding, meditating that I put the whole birth on the back burner!).

With my first child I had a VE after 24 hours of labour & I was only 2-3 vcms. You can imagine the devastation... My cx were 2minutes lasting 40-50secs... However, that was due to a very mal positioned baby & a high fear factor. (my M/W was a very evangelistic Christian - when I was shouting: "Oh God"... She kept saying Praise the Lord - which would be fine if that was my leaning - but I was bought up by a very very evangelistic mother & it took me places I didn't want to go in labour!) So labour was stopped for me... When I got to hospital I was actually 8cms with an anterior lip - she wasn't born until 7.16am the next morning after a 33 hour labour.

So, it's important to choose your midwife very very well. If you are a Christian and your midwife is a Buddhist & starts chanting - you will likely lose the plot... (not that a professional would do that anyway) If your midwife doesn't understand your triggers the same will happen.

I moved to Brisbane heavily pregnant & took the only midwife that I could get to attend myhome birth so I am responsible for not really looking into that well. I trusted my body & the birthing process implicitly. I didn't factor in the need to be in sync.

That's all a bit off topic - but kinda related...

I too thank you Kate for bringing this topic up, it is such a reasonable question to ask and one that all too often gets lost among the other important questions surrounding childbirth. It is so fantastic that you are thinking all of these realities through as I think it will really help you feel empowered when you give birth.

I am also so with you on the Ina May Bandwagon and I am moving with you girls to the farm!! I loooved Spiritual Midwifery and Ina May's guide to childbirth when I was pg the first time and I was so thankful to have found the books. I used so much of her philosophy when in Labour and it really helped me get as far as I did without drugs. I really enjoyed my "rushes" and had wonderful visualisations of opening up. It was so feminine and so empowering.

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned to you before as I know how as a pg woman you can receive so much well meaning advice (so feel free to disregard ;)) But I would recommend another book to read which I have found really helpful this time around and I wish I had it first time around. Henci Goer's Thinking woman's guide to a better birth. It is full of information about what the research says about all sorts of things like fetal monitoring, episiotomy, C/S and VEs. Henci is very pro natural labour and is not shy about letting you know that is her viewpoint but it is really refreshing to have all of the research at your fingertips should you need it (and need to convince a husband who is not so sure... ) (Like mine ;)) - I found Henci's book in the Belly Belly shop and it was at my door within a few days.

Another great book is Men at Birth by David Vernon. It is a collection of stories about labour from the man's perspective, written by the husband. It is very readable - especially for men who shy away from all of the 'technical' chick books! Once again, it does come across as very pro natural labour and even very pro homebirth so it may be helpful for your DH to read. Personally, I really loved reading it!

I was also struck by a comment you made in the OP

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Even on this site, people post that you won't care what you are wearing- or what you are doing during labour, and in another post talked about 'the humiliation starting early in pregnancy'. This doesn't empower first timers in thinking they can have a safe birthing experience whilst feeling respected and non fearful.

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Once again you are so right. Childbirth should be about being empowered and if you are someone who does not feel comfortable in the nude around others, it can me disempowering to read that it is not a worry for women. FWIW, I was absolutely one of those women who whipped all of my clothes off as soon as I entered the birth room, I never would have guessed I would be though! I did have something to wear that was easy to labour in but, nope, it was starkers for me. Everyone is different though and it is important to do what you need to do to feel comfy and be ok about that. I think you are well on your way to having an empowered birth given the sorts of things you are talking about, you are miles ahead of me when I was at your stage. Go the Ina May philosophy and channel that farm! x

I only had one VE and it was during labour when I was quite advanced.... I would have refused any other VE's if they'd been offered to me but luckily they weren't.
They aren't very comfortable anyway, mine hurt!

I had a wonderful labour and birth in a public hospital and I feel it's because I prepared myself and empowered myself with knowledge so that I could birth my baby in the way that I wanted to birth her and knew my rights. (also it is a good, small public hospital with baby friendly MW's) You are doing the right thing by doing your research and knowing your rights and that you can say no if you don't want something done to you or your baby.

All the best :hug:

Kate, have you considered setting up a no-obligation meeting with a midwife or two so your partner can hear/ask any questions about how they work? Often it's all so unknown to them and they are unsure so default to the status quo. There are some gorgeous midwives around I am sure they could help him feel at ease :)

I had a meeting organised with a student midwife (to have as a support person) but she has just pulled out due to distance. Bit annoyed as i told her where i lived in the first phone call, and i have provided her with info about myself. On with the search...

This article might interest you How to know how dilated you are without VE & Self-checking of dilation & descent

i had three VE during the last few weeks of pregnancy, thinking about it now i wasnt very educated in the process and thought they were all needed. One was at 40 weeks when i went in to talk about induction, which i was saying no to and the OB did a VE and found i was not atall dilated and there for she was even keener for me to be induced. The second was at 41 weeks and was in to talk induction againa nd check baby was ok. Found i was 2c dilated and the midwife did a S&S. And the third was after 9 hours of labour and i really wish i hadnt had it i was 'only' 5cms dilated and i just crumbled, that was it, i lost it and ended up having an epi a few hours later :( :( if i hadnt had it i think i could of gone on much longer, but the thought if going through all that for 'nothing'!
Next time (if we are that lucky) i will say...NO thanks!! Unless it is really needed! not doing it again to satify an OBs curiosity as to whats going on.
Interesting to read others experiances and comments. Its deffinatly wise to go into labour with the ability to question and if you want to say no! GL

Hi Kate, you have gotten so much info and, as always beautiful responses but I just wanted to let you know of my experiences.

Both my births were at hospitals - love the idea of homebirths but just not in my case
with DS 1 I had no VE in preg until I developed pre-eclampsia at 36wks. Had one VE found to be 4cm and induced with AROM. My midwives were amzing gorgeous woman who laboured on the floor with me and when I started asking for drugs suggested a VE if I felt comfortable to see if maybe I was in transition. She did it while I was on all floors on the floor and I barely even noticed it was being done. As it turned out yes it was transition which gave me the boost to keep going without med.

DD birth had one VE at my last appointment as I was overdue and found to be dilated already again. This time I was induced with AROM a few days later. The midwife at this birth, bless her heart had a lot to learn about birthing. She insisted on checking me about half way through as my contractions were coming very fast - she was also quite rude about me being on the bed on my back and I wasn't very accomm odating - didn't want to get out of the shower. turned out I was only 6 cm which threw me for a six I had been labouring for about 2 hours and my last labour was only 5 so I assumed I would be further along. Within 30min I had the urge to push and told DH to go and get her. She said I couldn't push, I was only 6 cm - we had another argument. She called the OB - thank goodness. He walked in and she starts telling him I'm only 6cm blah blah at which time another urge to push came over me and I was screaming I have to push - like you can actually fight that urge to push. He responded with "why the hell are you telling this woman not to push" and that is the last I remember seeing of her.

So the moral of my story is :D it is possible to have a beautiful birth in a hospital however I do understand thatthe homebirth option would be amazing if it suits your circumstances and you don't need to be forced to have them.

Also not all VE's hurt - I was so worried as I had been told horror stories about how uncomfortable they were

Are they necessary - I go with the other wise women and say not really as you can go from 6cm to fully dilated in 30 min :;-):and it is clear to me that midwives and dr who are on their game can, as Inanna said know more about your labour progress from watching and listening then someone who's not and just feeling around.

I wish you a safe and happy birth and hope everything goes beautifully for you!

sorry if this sounds a bit off topic i havent had time to read through the replies but after DD2 if i were to have a natural with my next I would refuse an internal whilst in labour my reason being with DD2 labour was progressing nicely i had an epidural my forst 2 labours were natural and for some reason i wanted to compare lol so all happy not feeling a thing pretty much belly down, then i get an internal done by a nurse i didnt know my midwife was on his dinner break and my god it hurt i was in tears by the end of it, it hurt that much and i had an epi i shouldnt have felt it anyway she left and not even 5 mins later my babies heart rate was up to 240bpm and contractions had stopped 15 mins later i was in an operating room with no time to waste

Hi there,

Just wanted to say that I have had similar concerns about vaginal exams with my up coming hospital birth. At the beginning of my pregnancy I was completely distraught as I thought I would be at the mercy of hospital staff and have to let them do what-ever they wanted to do to me but this isn't true. I think comments made by other members about being well informed are really important- you can say no to anything you feel really uncomfortable with- there are lots of tools around like the brand/brain tool (what are the Benefits, Risks, Alternatives, you Intuition, and what will happing if you do Nothing) that you can use in hospital to weigh up those concerns.

The Hypnobabies website has a great affirmations track which has been really helpful in increasing my confidence in saying no when I don't feel that something being proposed is necessary. You can download separate tracks that aren't too expensive. I have already felt much more confident about asserting myself in a hospital context and I put it down to these affirmations (which, by the way, I would usually think was a bit of a crock. Heheh).

One of the big concerns for me was that I would be completely out of it and not be able to use my brain or be able to refuse something that I didn't want to do during labour so the best thing that I have done is make sure I have a good support team who know what my big issues are. I took my partner to a great birthing workshop which really emphasised the role of the birth partner and he was definitely spurred into action by it. I feel so much more at ease now I now he's backing me up. If you don't have the money to do this, get heaps of videos for your partner from the library. Any reading material I passed on was discarded by the loo after about 5 mins so videos are really good. If your library isn't that good, remember you can transfer items from other libraries and from the state library if you need to. There are a couple of good birthing partner books out there that may be able to help too (even if you just read them too your partner!).

Also we have hired a doula with similar perspective on birthing who I feel really comfortable with- perhaps there are doulas that will service your area. I know that doulas starting out don't charge that much either so that might be worth exploring.

Hope this helps.

I had an appt today at 40 weeks + 5 days. Was told by the Ob that she would do my BP, check bub (doppler) and then do a vaginal exam. I said that i was not happy to have a VE at that time, and she got cranky. I said i would get the other exams done and then we could talk about it.

Bub was good but BP was up and so i had to go for monitoring.

Ob said that she had to do a VE, so they could book me in for an induction (which would be somewhere bw 10 and 14 days past 40 weeks). Her reason was that they had to know what type of induction to book me in for. I questioned the need for a VE today, and asked how my cervix today would influence the method potentially used in at least 5 days. I said that if my cervix was closed today, but open in 5 days surely this would change the method of induction used. The Ob said no, because it would be written up now what method to use (??) and the midwife would start the induction and would just follow the written instructions.

The Ob asked why i didn't want a VE, and then tried the 'we don't want to hurt you, we just want a healthy mum and a healthy bub'. I stated that of course that was my aim too, but i still didn't see the need for a VE today. The Ob then told me of a 'woman upstairs...who had refused intervention....and bad stuff had happened to the baby...' puh lease- it was just like 'The business of being born' when as soon as you question them, then they bring out 'you are putting your baby at risk'.....

I had to go for monitoring, and the Ob said that if my BP was still high then i would be induced and i would have to have a VE. I explained again that i was not against a VE if there was a need, but could not see why one was neccessary to book in to an induction 5-9 days away. Appt made for Monday if everything was ok with the monitoring.

So, went to monitoring, everything was ok. BP came down. Had finished all testing (4+ hours later) and asked when i was able to leave. Dodgy head midwife (the rest were all lovely) said waiting for doctor to get back to them (different dr to earlier) because they had to book me in for induction. Fortunately, drs were unable to come down and were happy for me to leave and come back on Monday. (earler if anything goes wrong)

So, Monday i will have appt (if bub doesn't come over weekend) and they will want to book me in for an induction. Will want to do a VE to book me in.

So frustrated. Don't want to fight with them, because it just brings my energy down. Don't want to do something i'm not happy with because i fear i will regret it. I just want my body to do something right for once. In my weak moments, i wish i would be happy to just go along with them, because it's easier. But it's my bub, and my body and i just can't go along with something for the sake of the 'system'.

cheers,

I had an appt today at 40 weeks + 5 days. Was told by the Ob that she would do my BP, check bub (doppler) and then do a vaginal exam. I said that i was not happy to have a VE at that time, and she got cranky. I said i would get the other exams done and then we could talk about it.

Bub was good but BP was up and so i had to go for monitoring.

Ob said that she had to do a VE, so they could book me in for an induction (which would be somewhere bw 10 and 14 days past 40 weeks). Her reason was that they had to know what type of induction to book me in for. I questioned the need for a VE today, and asked how my cervix today would influence the method potentially used in at least 5 days. I said that if my cervix was closed today, but open in 5 days surely this would change the method of induction used. The Ob said no, because it would be written up now what method to use (??) and the midwife would start the induction and would just follow the written instructions.

The Ob asked why i didn't want a VE, and then tried the 'we don't want to hurt you, we just want a healthy mum and a healthy bub'. I stated that of course that was my aim too, but i still didn't see the need for a VE today. The Ob then told me of a 'woman upstairs...who had refused intervention....and bad stuff had happened to the baby...' puh lease- it was just like 'The business of being born' when as soon as you question them, then they bring out 'you are putting your baby at risk'.....

I had to go for monitoring, and the Ob said that if my BP was still high then i would be induced and i would have to have a VE. I explained again that i was not against a VE if there was a need, but could not see why one was neccessary to book in to an induction 5-9 days away. Appt made for Monday if everything was ok with the monitoring.

So, went to monitoring, everything was ok. BP came down. Had finished all testing (4+ hours later) and asked when i was able to leave. Dodgy head midwife (the rest were all lovely) said waiting for doctor to get back to them (different dr to earlier) because they had to book me in for induction. Fortunately, drs were unable to come down and were happy for me to leave and come back on Monday. (earler if anything goes wrong)

So, Monday i will have appt (if bub doesn't come over weekend) and they will want to book me in for an induction. Will want to do a VE to book me in.

So frustrated. Don't want to fight with them, because it just brings my energy down. Don't want to do something i'm not happy with because i fear i will regret it. I just want my body to do something right for once. In my weak moments, i wish i would be happy to just go along with them, because it's easier. But it's my bub, and my body and i just can't go along with something for the sake of the 'system'.

cheers,

Kate

ETA: Add to top off the day, i missed my acupuncture appt this arvo because i was on my way back from the hospital. So, from a 9am appt that was supposed to be a quick one, i wasn't home til 5pm

OH Kate!!!

Good on you for standing your ground, especially in the face of such negativity and emotional blackmail!!

Of course you are 100% right and completely reasonable. Poor Ob obviously was surprised and had no real response for you so had to fall back on the old, we just want a healthy... line. - As if you don't!!

No wonder your BP was up. Mine was up just reading your story!

Keep up the good work, no regrets, you are in control and although it may feel easier to go along with them, ultimately it is easier to have the birth you want You are well educated, not making unnecessary or unsafe requests and not likely to put yourself or your baby in danger.

It is just such a pity that you feel you have to be on the defensive. It's a crazy system.

All the best for this weekend ;)

Hey Kate - hang in there chook! I think you did the right thing for you in asking them to wait. It's a bit of a balancing act. For what it's worth though, not all VE's are bad. I had one when I came in (so already having cx's), which came back showing them that I hadn't dilated at all. Had another one about 4 hours later, because all my "signs" were that things were progressing & that it was all happening, but in actual fact I still hadn't dilated even a cm. And my cx's were nasty & very full on - over a minute long, and every 2 minutes. I was already exhausted. So at that point, in labour, it was really useful information, because had I not had a VE, we may have chosen to just use an epidural to manage the pain, which would only have resulted in several more hours of pointless effort, because the way DS had tangled himself in his cord, there was no way he was coming out naturally.

Anyway, you're going to do fine I reckon - you're well informed, very sensible and in tune with what you want, which is a really good start, even if you haven't done it before. So sending you lots of labour vibes for your weekend :dance:

Kate I just want to say that I appreciate the content of this thread and all the posts that have come since your original. Its been very helpful for me considering my options as well. So thank you.

I also wanted to say how sorry I am that they're starting to pressure you, especially when you're probably feeling over it and vulnerable. But it sounds like you've got it sorted and I say good on you for sticking to your preferences.

Sending you lots of labour vibes for the next few days, I hope everything goes well.

:hug: