baby spiral fracture feel so bad

I really dont know how to start this,ive been wanting to post but i feel so worried of what people would think but I feel I need to.We have found out our 10 and a half month old has a spiral fracture in her leg.Its so heartbreaking and because of what happened i'm finding it really hard to not be angry and to concentrate on her getting better.It was Sunday afternoon and my family were over for lunch,my sister has 2 kids one is a boy 9 the other is a girl 7 the 9 year old boy is horrible,you just mention his name and people groan,hes nasty,very sneaky etc,ive caught him doing things before to our baby but thought they were accidents but nothing bad came of them like this.So they were playing in the lounge on the floor and asked if my ten month old could sit with them and play,so i thought how much trouble could they get into on the floor??also the way our house is,the dining is right next to the lounge like the same room and there were 4 adults sitting there,so me and my sister got up to make hot drinks and we'd only just put the kettle on when i heard screaming,so i ran into the lounge and straight away the boy says that he thinks shes rolled and hit her head,well im thinking how can she do that much damamge and be that upset by just that??so here we are for about half hour trying to calm her down and not worrying about anything but her head as thats what my nephew said,then we notice she had a red and hot leg but still concentrated on the head,so she calms down then sleeps,and then seemed fine,next morning i could see her favouring the leg and things so i rang my doctor who did an xray and found out its fractured and so is now in a cast.I just dont know how i feel,for the last few days ive been soooo angry and im trying not too be,whats done is done and we will never know what happened as the kids wont say so its just an accident but because my nephew is such a horror i secretly wonder??also my sister is being terrible about it,trying to blame me and do anything to shift the blame from her kids,point is if they werent here it wouldnt have happened,she couldnt of done it to herself!!Its just awful the looks we get with a baby in a cast,i just cant seem to move on from being upset about it,my little baby is fine she doesnt seem bothered by the cast but i just feel so bad for her and cant seem to get over being a little mad at my sister not just for what happened fair enough rule it out as an accident but not taking any blame at all like trying to blame me?im trying to move on from the "blame" thing but finidng it really hard.Has anyone here known of such a young baby to have something happen like this?Im trying to work out what happened,i thought there bones were quite flexible?The doctor couldnt really say.

Firstly I'm sorry your little girl has fractured her leg. Hope it heals really quickly and she'll be back on her feet in no time at all. Please don't feel bad about not noticing that she had hurt her leg. It is so hard to guess what is wrong with our little ones until they can start talking and tell us what's wrong it really is a guessing game. You did the best you could with the info you had and that was gave her heaps of TLC and settled her.
The issue over working out what to do I don't think is ever going to be solved I'm sorry. Unless the boy will tell his mum/you what happened you will never know. It must be causing friction between you and your sister. I really don't have any idea how to move on becuase I'm a big act first then later and usually just yell (trying not to) so I would have just yelled at him and demanded to know what happened so I probably would have caused a fight. I think it is wrong that your sister is trying to shift the blame onto you. Maybe you could talk to her and ask her to stop. Sorry not much help at all. Hopefully someone else will give you some helpful advice.

:hug: poor little poppet. I don't know anything about how breaks happen but I do know they heal very quickly. I hope she gets better really soon.

As for your sister and her children, I would suggest sitting down with her and expressing your concerns and see how it goes. Hopefully she is aware of their temprement and understands why you are so worried. She may be blaming you as she doesn't want to admit how naughty her own son is. Alternatively don't let your lo play alone with her children. always keep them supervised and watch their behaviours very carefully.

HTH

No time to write a proper post, but I just wanted to give you a big, big :hug:!

I hope your little girls leg heals really quick. It's a terrible feeling when our babies are sick or hurt and we can't fix them.

Regards,
Dianne

Awww poor bubba girl :( I personally would be pushing the point with your nephew, he has lied to your face (& his mother's) by saying she rolled & hit her head when clearly it wasn't her head that was injured. At this point his mother isn't going to discpline him, so maybe broach it from the direction of "you aren't going to be in trouble, we just need to tell the doctor what happened so we can get DD better." As for your sister, that makes me so cross. SHE should have pushed the point with her DS & she most definitely shouldn't be trying to place the blame on you.

:hug: it's such a horrible situation & I know I would be feeling the same way.

Oh PJ that is so awful for you and Bub :( I dont have much advice except I would be feeling the same way as you I reckon. Maybe best to wait to talk to your sister untill your not as angry then its less likely to turn into a blame-shifting argument??

Big hugs to you and Summer :hug:

i really hope your bubbas leg heals quick and it sounds like your sister is probably ashamed and is directing her anger at you. not that she should be at all. no advice just huge hugs to you and your angel xxx

What a horrible situation. So sorry your little bubba has broken her leg, fortunately at this age it should heal up really quickly.

I have no doubt that whatever happened was an accident - in the sense of even if your nephew did something he wasn't supposed to (and knew he shouldn't) there is no way he could've anticipated that the outcome would be a broken leg, kwim? So I think the helpful strategy here is to try to shift away from blaming - accept that is HAS happened and you can't turn back time - and you can't peer into the room and find out exactly what happened either - and now start to think about what you need to do from here on in, kwim?

For starters, you are going to have to supervise your DD 100% whenever those children are there. Don't make a big deal about it but make sure your DH and any other adults are on the same page. This can be done discretely without being in your sister's face if you want to avoid conflict, or deliberately in her face so she realises there is a consensus of concern by other adults in your child's life (grandparents, mutual friends) if you choose to go that way.

I think the issue of concern is that this is part of a larger pattern of behaviour. Hard to say without knowing what he was doing in the previous incidents. Have you talked to her or her partner in the past about the things you have caught him doing? If not, leave it be for a bit and then have a conversation with her - not just about this latest incident - but about everything and why you are concerned about him. Wilfully causing hurt to small children and animals etc can be an early sign of sociopathic tendencies - I do so hope that's not the case here - but in any case it's a set of behaviours that he needs to learn is unacceptable. Esp if he is doing it to get his mother's attention, kwim?

I wouldn't let your nephew near your baby again. A spiral fracture is caused by a twisting motion of the limb. Like a skiing accident (leg locked in a boot) or stepping in a hole and twisting at the same time.

Is she walking? no? Because it's not like she tripped and fell then is it? (sorry about my tone I think the dr should have a little more idea about this).

It appears that someone twisted your childs leg till it broke hun :hug:

Look up spiral fractures and see how they are caused. Your nephew needs help and now - for all his behaviours xoxoxoxo

Oh honey, the poor little poppet, I hope you are both okay. FWIW my niece broke her arm at about the same age, falling off of her big sisters bed. It's all healed fine, so try not to worry too much.

As for your nephew, I think it would be worth having a look into what Lulu said about spiral fractures. If that is the only way that they can occur then your really need to have a serious chat with your sister because by the sound of things her little boy needs some professional help. If he did do it then he is only likely to get worse as he gets older, not to be overly dramatic but you know what they say about children/people who start off hurting animals and small children.

PJ - Just wanted to drop in and give you a big :hug: My 18 month old broke his leg last year too. It was very distressing so I understand how you feel. Different circumstances, he basically fell onto the grass, it was the simplest thing, but ended the same way.

I understand the constant looks and questions, we got the same thing. It was a looooong 6 weeks. The number of people who asked if DOCS were called made me want to punch something and cry.

Rest assured that it will heal just fine and she shouldn't have any lasting issues. You'd never know my little man had broken his. He was in a cast for 6 weeks and it healed beautifully.

As for your nephew...if you feel that you can't confront your sister about it, I would definitely make sure you don't leave her unsupervised with him again.

:hug: I hope your little girl is feeling better soon.

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I wouldn't let your nephew near your baby again. A spiral fracture is caused by a twisting motion of the limb. Like a skiing accident (leg locked in a boot) or stepping in a hole and twisting at the same time.

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Sorry Lulu but I'm going to disagree with you. I had a spiral fracture on my toe by stubbing it hard against a wall while I was walking. No twisting involved - just movement & impact. 1pj If you are worried about this by all means discuss it with your doctor but i don't think you can jump to the conclusion that Lulu has. :hug:

MD, it's alot easier for an adult to sustain a spiral fracture. We have the weight and velocity behind our movements as well as the range of motion iykwim?

The bone has to be twisted to break like that, if she was a baby sitting on the floor it is alot harder to do so - although not impossible. (and it can be a trigger for further follow up because children that are deliberately hurt often present with these types of fractures).

It is just as possible that it wasn't an accident and I think it needs to be addressed ie - not allowing the kids to be in that situation again at the least. It's worth further investigation don't you think?

1pj - I hope I'm not making you uncomfortable, it's not a nice situation and I don't want to cause you further stress :hug:

xoxoxo

P.S Zinc can help bones heal faster and some arnica cream would help too xoxoxo

Your poor DD. Don't beat yourself up over it, it has happened and she will heal quickly. :hug:

In light of 'other accidents' happening while he is around, it doesn't sound like it was an accident to me and I wouldn't be having the kids around eachother either. I also tend to think that the other kids aren't telling you how it happened because they're scared of what he might do to them if they did. From my own knowledge of kids, if it was a pure accident they would've told you exactly how it happened when you raced into the room, they'd probably even act out the scene lol.

Sounds to me like the boy needs some form of counselling.

I got a spiral fracture on my leg when I was 4 by falling down a firemans pole in a playground. I fell about 5 metres or so, so I would hate to think of the force it would have taken for your DD's leg to break like that.

i agree with tinks that they wouldnt lie about it if it was an accident

I just wanted to thank everyone so much for all there kind posts and supporrt!You dont know how much it means to me!

Lulu - I agree with MD. DS was treated at the Children's Hospital and we were told by the paediatric ortho specialists there that spiral fractures occur very easily and are the most common fracture with toddlers.

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It appears that someone twisted your childs leg till it broke hun

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I've been thinking about this statement since I read it yesterday, and yep... still makes me feel sick to my stomach when I read it and it's not even my child. You don't have any evidence at all that this is what happened. Children break bones very, very easily. A lot more easily than most of us would suspect. It may have occurred with a lot less force than you are implying.

I am not saying that the nephew was not responsible for what happened, but I just think that statement is out of line.

PJ - I hope you're feeling better about things today and enjoying Christmas with your baby girl :hug:

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It was Sunday afternoon and my family were over for lunch,my sister has 2 kids one is a boy 9 the other is a girl 7 the 9 year old boy is horrible,you just mention his name and people groan,hes nasty,very sneaky etc,ive caught him doing things before to our baby but thought they were accidents but nothing bad came of them like this.So they were playing in the lounge on the floor and asked if my ten month old could sit with them and play,so i thought how much trouble could they get into on the floor??

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I'm sorry you don't feel too good about my statement Willow, but I'd like to re-iterate these points. Made by 1pj, the mother. I think her feelings about the situation are important - regardless of the 'evidence' (which in the light of the above statement should send red flags up to anyone.)

She feels something untoward may have happened. The boy has been involved in previous 'accidents' with the baby. They were playing on the floor.

Of course spiral fractures do occur in children. If they fall off a bed, or chair and there is enough force to fracture it can and does happen. Even if they trip over when they are walking. We have a baby sitting on the floor and a spiral fracture.

I didn't set out to upset 1pj any more that she already has been, I believe it's worth some sort of action (even if it's not leaving them alone again).

Although spiral fractures can occur with an impact, Lulu is right, they are commonly caused by twisting and are a common presentation for children with 'non accidental injury' (NAI)
I'm not saying that this was a not an accident, i wasn't there and i don't know the ins and outs, but most children that turn up with a spiral fracture and an unknown cause to a radiology department would be assessed for NAI.

But like i say, i wasn't there, and i wouldn't like to comment really except to say;

You poor baby girl and poor you. Hope she mends quickly. :hug:

It sounds quite suspicious to me that your nephew was involved in some way, 1pj. I agree with the others, and I wouldn't be subtle - I would be simly telling the child's mother that you know he lied, that he has been caught lying and being rough before, that this time there has been a serious consequence, and that unless she is willing to constantly supervise his behaviour while he is there, that he is not welcome. That is a drastic move, but for a seven year old who is so undisciplined that he cannot even manage to play gently with a 10 month old, I think drastic action needs to be taken.

We had something similar happen to us when DD2 was 9 months old. We accidentally dropped her in our back garden, and she sustained a spiral fracture to her femur. I can assure you there were no twisting forces involved! Children's bones spiral fracture because they are more pliable and therefore tend to bend and buckle before they break completely. That said, one possible scenario comnes to mind in your case - you mention that your nephew said she "rolled and hit her head" - if she rolled while her leg was trapped, possibly under him if he was lying on her or being rough with her, then there would be some twisting force involved.

Children's bones heal fast. DD2 is three now and has absolutely no deficit after her injury.

:hug: I hope she recovers really soon!

I agree with others that you should definitely confront your sister and tell her your concerns. I find it very suspicious that she sustained a spiral fracture from just sitting on the floor and not being on the move... I'm sorry and I hope I don't offend, but from what you've said about your nephew, his past behaviour, the fact that he lied about the situation, this would be the last straw for me and he would not be welcome around my child until his mother acted upon my concerns and I saw improvement in his behaviour.

Your sister sounds as though she knows her son is in the wrong as she is acting very defencively, not questioning her children, blaming you and not taking one bit of responsibility. Appalling!

Good luck and please speak to your sister and don't let your nephew go near your daughter without YOU there, because unfortunately, it doesn't seem like you can even trust your sister to own up if her children do do something wrong.

xox

When I first read the above, my immediate thought was he'd given her a Chinese burn (obviously I may well be wrong)

Based on the history, I would be seriously concerned. It sounds like he may well be a nasty little brat whose mother thinks he can do no wrong. A great way to raise a sociopath. Early markers of sociopathy/psychopathy include wetting the bed and playing with fire, as well as harming animals/ young children. I know I might be jumping the gun, but I would not leave her with her cousins unsupervised again.

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Made by 1pj, the mother. I think her feelings about the situation are important

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Um, obviously. It was her feelings I was considering when I posted, not my own.

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We had something similar happen to us when DD2 was 9 months old. We accidentally dropped her in our back garden, and she sustained a spiral fracture to her femur. I can assure you there were no twisting forces involved! Children's bones spiral fracture because they are more pliable and therefore tend to bend and buckle before they break completely. That said, one possible scenario comes to mind in your case - you mention that your nephew said she "rolled and hit her head" - if she rolled while her leg was trapped, possibly under him if he was lying on her or being rough with her, then there would be some twisting force involved.

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Thank you Michael, this is exactly what I mean.

I understand PJ suspects something untoward has happened and I am not disputing that at all. I agree that he should not be left alone with her child again. Nor am I saying she shouldn't confront her sister about the incident. I am disputing the fact that you have implied her nephew 'twisted her leg until it broke'. You have absolutely no evidence to support that statement Lulu. As Michael has suggested, there are other ways it may have happened.

*sigh. I understand you objected to the language I used.
I understand accidents can happen, I am trying to get across that the child did not fall from a height so a fracture would not be so easily sustained.
However I'm not the only one here implying the nephew may have had something to do with it.

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However I'm not the only one here implying the nephew may have had something to do with it.

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**Sigh**

I understand that AND agree with you, as I have clearly stated.

Anyway, I have nothing more to add other than I hope PJs little girl's leg heals beautifully without too much discomfort for her and that she sorts the situation with her nephew. Best of luck hun.

Hi Pj,
I hope the little miss is feeling better, her leg will be out of that cast in no time.

Dont feel bad about not realising for so long. My daughter fractured her leg falling off a swing, it took 12 hrs of screaming and vomitting before I realised what was wrong with her. By that point she had been checked over by about 4 medical professionals who also could not figure out what was wrong at first.
It is very hard to guess what the problem is when kids cant communicate.

Any way, good luck with her leg, I hope it heals quickly.

Sjl

I hope your bubby girl is ok and healing nicely and i hope that you can find some peace with yourself. it's one of those split second things and we just can't humanly be there to 'protect' our kidlets 100% of the time.

I also hope that you can find some resolution in how to cope and deal with your sister and her son (what a nightmarish situation to be place in). I am sorry that she got defensive, sometimes it is the first and immediate reaction when we feel bad - i am sure that she is privvy to her son's behaviour, but maybe is just completely overwhelmed by the situation with him and has tried to block it out ITMS.

In all honesty when i read your OP i thought that maybe he might of (even accidently!) stepped on her leg. she might of just been in the wrong place at the right time while the bigger kids were in a deep state of play iykwim and she just got underfoot...but i guess we can hypothesise til the cows come home unless the little boy feels ok enough to explain what happened.

:hug: to you and your bubba girl xx

My ds broken his collarbone from softly rolling off our bed (he's 2.5yrs and rolled on purpose) but as a leg I would highly doubt you could roll and break it! If so it is something that surely would require further investigation. I think the fact of the matter is a eg doesn't break when a baby rolls over, they are obviously lying. It is very sad that your sister is pushing the blame towards you when it is obvious your kids are lying I would be very intent on finding out the truth if I was her. Why are her kids lying etc etc

Perhaps your nephew is just badly behaved maybe it comnes from a lack of discipline or a form of disorder or learnign difficulty or perhaps something more serious as has been suggested. I guess the best you can do is nicley talk to your sister about your concerns and hope she does something about it.

I hope you dd heals really quickly, I am so sorry I know how horrible it feels to have a child with a broken arm. xo :hug: