Is this ectopic????

Hi ladies.
Well, I am devastated to think that I am over here again. I longed for a BFP and got this just before Xmas, was a fantastic Xmas pressie for my DH.
Well unfortunately it doesn't seem like we are going to be lucky this time around either.
To shorten up the journey, started brown and pink spotting on and off around 6 weeks, the specialist centre was closed so couldn't get hold of them until last week. I have had very low HCG levels and they have been slowly rising, so after a blood test last Friday it showed my levels at 1350 whcih is still very very low for 7.5 weeks.
Still being concerned they booked me in for a u/s yesterday hoping to be able to give me answer as my scan last friday showed absolutley nothing.
Well the u/s yesterday also showed nothing anywhere, not the ovaries, womb, uterus, tubes, it doesn't even look like I am pregnant.
I had another blood test this morning and levels have risen still to 2381.
I have been given the option to wait until next Monday for another BT or book in for a laparoscopy to get it cleaned up.
Ladies, I don't know what to do, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Just wanted to wish you the best of luck with your next scan and b/t. Praying you see a gorgeous little bubba

My borderline ectopic back in 2005 ended with a D&C, not because it was ectopic, but for other reasons involving development. If they have been unable to find anything in the tubes or on the ovaries, I'd seek a second and third opinion via u/s if you have to, it may be that your bubba is just hiding.

Are you sure you have the dates right? I know they usually go by gestational age (date of last menstrual period onwards) but is it possible that implantation was a half a week to a week out? I have just found my sheet from my local hospital which has normal HCG ranges.

Gestational Age HCG Range
3wks 6-71
4wks 10-750
5wks 217-7,138
6wks 158-31,795
7wks 3,697-163,563
8wks 32,065-149,571
9wks 63,803-151,410
10wks 46,509-186,977

But then the levels at 6.5 weeks for my borderline ectopic were a little over 1,900, which is within normal limits.

I suppose it would also depend on the normal length of your cycle, normal luteal phase, and how quickly your kidney's process the hormones too.

I hope that helps a bit :)

Thanks for your thoughts Liviam. :pray:
JennaJayen - Thank you for sending that info. I am pretty sure of the dates, we did IUI on day of ovulation and I have pretty accurate cycles. BFP turned up 12dpo. I wish I could maybe think the dates were wrong, but I would very much doubt it.
I guess this whole m/c is always hard and trying and we never seem to get the answers we want when we want them.
I am banging my head up against a wall :wall: DH is not sure of the right thing to do either, but supports me 100% in which way I choose.
If I hold off until Monday for bt, I think I am putting off the inevitable. I just don't know the percentage of danger that I might be putting myself at for waiting. But at the same time, what if bubba is actually there somewhere?
thanks for listening girls. I am sure someone upstairs will look after me one way or the other. :pray:

I was a little confused with your post! So it isn't an eptopic but they can't see anything either but your levels are still rising so is it possible as Jenna said your dates may be out?? I know with myself i have the argument with the doc about my dates when i have been pregnant, i have long cycles and the doc always says from 1st day of LMP but i have to fast forward 2 weeks at least and i prove them wrong!

Stay positive and maybe seek another opinion.... can't hurt anyway!

Thinking of u GL

Ooooops ignore me about dates! Thinking positive for you still :hug:

That's okay Danniim :)
They are definitley suspecting ectopic but they just don't know where it mgiht be.
I am not bleeding and have no pain so they don't really have any answers for me.
Part of me just wants to get it over and done with so we can start trying again asap, but then the other part is thinking to hold on as long as I can, but I don't know why.
I am kind of hoping for some miracle stories where bub will just appear, but at 8 weeks, we should see something now, but not even a sac, so it is definitley not viable hey.
I am thinking to wait until Monday and keep an eye out for any symptoms.
Thanks for the kind words ladies.

Babyjo I am really sorry for posting this and I don't want to sound insensitive or upset you more then the nightmare I am sure you are already going through. But I just wanted to let you know what happened to me and how I wish things were different.

I am surprised the Dr or hospital or where ever you went would not want to follow this up more quickly then they are if they suspect ectopic pregnancy is the most likely. I am praying you have lost a twin and thats why you had some bleeding and lower BHCG levels to begin with and bub is safe and sound just hiding from the sonographer.

Have you been to the ED department? I would insist on a repeat scan today if possible or tomorrow as after the BHCG over 2000 they can generally pick it up but not before. Or even another BT to see what the BHCG is doing. If its still rising, if so is it doubling within 48hrs. If its not rising accordingly but rising it would sent alarm bells ringing. Even if it was a fraction under 20000 when they did the initial scan they wouldn't have seen anything. If bub is ectopic then you can have the option to have methotrexate before the BHCG hits 4000 generally if there is no bleeding inside and no heartbeat. I had an ectopic pregnancy which was picked up too late which resulted in me loosing my whole tube and almost my life which still is very hard to deal with when we already had so much trouble ttc. The loosing my tube bit I am talking about. My chances of concieving again are reduced because of the damage that was done, then having my tube removed in an emergency situation and I wished I was treated with methotrexate instead of the surgery. It was never an option for me due to the level my BHCG was and the rate it was rising (which was every 2.5days so close to a uterine pregnancy)

If you do have an ectopic pregnancy then the methotrexate is certainly not something without risks but if it saves the area where bub is then thats a good thing for future ttc. Most common place of course is the tube and if used early enough then its a very effective way of treating you over surgery.

When I had my ectopic my bleeding at 6weeks went for 7days. It was pink and very mucosy with slight bits of tissue in it. Apparently with ectopic pregnancy the bleeding often has alot of mucous with it plus pink blood. I know mine certainly wasn't like a m/c and wasn't like a period either. It was no where near as painful as my m/c was a few months earlier and didn't have near the amount of red blood and clots and tissue that my m/c had or even a period for that matter. And apparently what I have described is very typical in an ectopic pregnancy.

I really am sorry to go into the panic mode I am just surprised that they are even leaving it for a few days before trying to determine exactly what is going on. I hope and pray that bub is ok and I am wishing you a speedy diagnosis.

babyjo - don't mean to scare you either but I am with Emmy83 - please please get BT done every 48 hours and get another u/s.. I had early bleeding - just brown blood and went for an u/s and they couldn't find anything and told me to come back in a few weeks.... ok I thought (first pregnancy none the wiser) well a week later my tube ruptured and I lost it and nearly my life ...... not to make you panic but please please follow this up.... I am praying that all is ok :pray:

Emmy83 - hugs to you hun xxx

Forgot to add it took 2 sonographers over an hour to find mine. They scanned me 2weeks earlier with suspected ectopic pregnancy and found nothing and said there was no sign what so ever I was pregnant. Both scans were transvaginal and its only that they knew it had to be ectopic because of the way my BHCG was doubling. If they didn't find it that last scan I had they were going to do exploratory surgery to see where bub was. My BHCG was just under 7000 the night before my surgery. Only 6 hours before that it was 5800 at almost 9weeks.

Thanks Emmy83.
Firstly, I am so so sorry that you have had such an awful and terrifying experience. I apologise whole heartedly if I have raised any emotions. I am truly sorry.
Secondly, I just want to give you a big hug and say thank you, finally I feel that someone is as concerned about this as me.
I have done a fair bit of research and have called my doc back this afternoon. They still don't know where bubba is living but because I am not showing any signs of danger (bleeding, no more spotting, pain etc), they think that waiting till Monday will be fine, but if any of this changes then to get to ER immediately. However if I am concerned they will do a lap for me straight away.

My HCG levels started rising slowly from my first bt.
14dpo - 40
16dpo - 70
19dpo - 290
6.5 weeks - 932
7.2 weeks - 1350
7.6 weeks - 2381

I had the scan at 3.30 yesterday afternoon and the sonographer actually asked if I definitely thought I was pregnant as there is no indication of it anywhere?
I am really frustrated about the whole thing to be honest and just want answers.
My problem when I first noticed all of this was that the clinic was closed over the xmas break and last week the scanning places were also closed!
I don't know if having another scan would pick up anything would it? Surely they would have seen signs of it yesterday. It was a pretty professional scanning place and it seemed pretty thorough.
I am scared to go in for surgery "just in case" IFKWIM. Am I trying to hold on to something that might not be there. But then part of me thinks what you mentioned about maybe losing a twin?
I think I am going to wait till Monday. I haven't had any brown spotting as such for almost a week. My CM however is between dark yellow and clear, which might not be right either.
Thank you again Emmy83, I will most certainly take your thoughts into seriousc considretaion.
xx

Chepie, hugs to you hun. And thank you. :hug:
I am scared about the whole thing but they don't want to do another scan, they say to wait until Monday! :wall:

We will be thinking of you hun and you will be in my prays ..... if you are unsure or get any weird pain please go the the emergency or better still the maternity section and explain EVERYTHING ....... take care of yourself babe xxx we are all here if you need anything at all

I think you would be ok to wait longer to see what the BHCG is doing I was just thinking if it was ectopic then if they knew for sure now then you would have more options for treatment over surgery.
Unlike chepie my ectopic pregnancy didn't rupture my tube which was where it was it was the general anaethetic that almost killed me.
I guess another scan maybe still wouldn't pick it up so soon after the last. My BHCG at 15DPO was 71 then it actually went down before going back up again. Because it went down thats why despite my abdominal pain they were sure it wasn't ectopic. They also said I was never pregnant and one Dr said I was barely pregnant. I actually marched myself of to ED and sat in the chair and insisted they re-scan me and thats when they discovered it which all it did was confirm what I had been telling them for 3weeks. At the moment there isn't a day that goes by where I don't think about it so you haven't made any thing resurface.
I am sure they told you if you get any pain including shoulder tip pain to march yourself of to the hospital. Once again I am praying for the best possible outcome.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you Babyjo, and praying for your bubba to be in the right place, but I agree with Emmy & Chepie, even if you have to march up to the ED and demand an u/s for suspected ectopic. Prob not something you want to hear atm, but when I was preg with DS and had what I thought were contractions at 15wks and onwards up to 33.5 weeks (it was later diagnosed as an irritable uterus combined with braxton hick's) I got u/s's straight away to make sure DS was still alive and kicking, so they should be able to do the same for you, even if they have to admit you to maternity or wherever to do it. Also, took then 20 mins to find DS at the first u/s at 7wk6d, he was hiding behind part of my uterus, and they only found him via internal scan.

Did they do an internal scan

I would have thought there would have been some pain by now too if it was ectopic? Or am I wrong about that? I remember hearing it was at about 6-7 weeks that the pain can start if it is in a tube? Not sure if it's right though.

Also, I think I read somewhere that not everyone's HCG levels actually double every day during preg... and still have viable pregnancies that make it to term... I can't remember where I saw it though :wall: I know for sure that DS's HCG definately didn't double. 483 at 5.2 weeks LMP it says on my blood test results, and 5,628 at 7wk6d. Still within limits, but on the lowish side.

Another also, but I just asked my stepmum about bleeding she had early on with my step-sister (around the 6-8 week mark too), and she said that they told her she was having a m/c and to have a D&C. She refused and my stepsister was born almost 7 months later by c-sec. She's 16 now. They now suspect that she was preg with twins and lost one.

And yet another also, the HCG only comes after implantation which can occur approx 5-10 after O, so that could put the numbers out a bit too.

I never had pain with my borderline ectopic, but then they booked me in for the D&C the week after the first scan (which was at 6wk4d). He was right at the back on the edge of my tube, but I was told he could have slipped either way as he grew, but the other problems were what made the D&C the only option.

Also, just read a story in one of my magazines about a woman who took ages to find her bubba on the ultrasound because there was no or little amniotic fluid around it. That could also be a possibility.

Sorry for the long post, I'm probably just getting you more worried here, and offering conflicting opinions, but I'm trying to help, really.

Emmy - BIIIIIG HUGS darl! Thank you for sharing your story.

Chepie - BIIIIIG HUGS to you too darl, and also thank you for sharing your story as well.

JennaJayen, I can't thank you enough for that, no it hasn't scared me at all.
There is a little part of my mind that is saying hold on to it as long as you can, and I guess we all get that when we get our BFP so don't want to rush in for surgery just in case I can be one of those incredible mircales as in your post. I don't think I am but hey fingers crossed.

Yes, I had both an external scan and an internal scan. They checked uterus, ovaries, tubes, womb, everywhere. Everything seemed perfectly normal, no abnormalities at all.

I am at a lost as to what to think. All symptoms have gone, no more sore boobs etc but I am still seeing the odd brown mucus when I wipe (sorry tmi).
DH and I are thinking that we might just wait it out until Monday and see what that shows. We aren't sure either if the pain should have kicked in by now? Not that I am wishing for it! Actually I don't really know what pain to look out for, I guess I will know if it happens. Now that I am aware of it, every tinge is having me stop and think. Mind can play awful mind games once a seed is planted.

I have to say a big thank you again to all you ladies, you have provided me with so much support with this. I don't feel that support from the FS but I guess at the end of the day it is a job to them and we are just a number and that is disappointing in its own right.

A big hug to everyone and pray that one day we will ALL be holding our darlings in our arms.

Oh darl, any time you need to talk, just pm me. And if you want my phone number if you want to txt, just ask me any time.

I think the pain is supposed to be on the side that the ectopic is on, inside the hip, but I think it can radiate outwards too... Also (sorry tmi) another symptom of ectopic is pressure in or around the rectum, not related to doing #2's... not really a conversation starter, but just thought I add that too in case it helps as well.

I so hope you get good news though. Or, at the very least that it gets sorted out quickly so that you can start ttc again and get your darling sticky bubba (in the right place!) soon!

More BIIIIG HUGS for you!

hun i am so sorry for this confusing time.I hope you get your answers very soon
and for what its worth i hope you are one of the miricles!!!

Working as an ED nurse in the past most people do not get pain from an ectopic until it bursts or is about to. My pain was in the opposite side to were the ectopic was and I had pain in my shoulder. Apparently my symptoms were very unusual and they said it was refered pain. I never had pain in my right side which was where it was. Even once removed I continued to have pain in my left side. They also said my pain wasn't bad enough to think it was ectopic and it shouldn't have gone on for weeks as its usually a sudden onset of severe pain. Also my surgeoen said he was surprised I got as far as I did as alot of tubal ectopic pregnancy burst at around the 7week mark. In saying that most people I know have been further along then that.

babyjo I hope in a few days we are laughing this of and celebrating happy news that they have found bub safe and well.

I'm subscribing to this thread because I wanna know what happens. Your in my thoughts and prayers :hug::pray:

Hoping all is going ok for you Babyjo... been thinking of you :pray:

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Hoping all is going ok for you Babyjo... been thinking of you :pray:

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As have I - Hoping that we hear something soon :hug:

Me too hun... hope all is ok and you are in our thoughts and :pray:

Hi there.
I'm just another lady who's had an ectopic, mine ruptured. I'm sure they're all different, and i'm sure there's times where there's a healthy pregnancy that stays hidden for awhile... but to be safe I hope you are able to keep the testing up until you find it! Hopefully VERY SOON.

What I wanted to tell you is that I know ectopic's aren't always in the tube. When I had my most recent m/c in December, I was having a scan done and the sonographer told me that her sister in law had an ectopic and they couldn't find it for ages so she took her for a scan and hours later revealed that the ectopic was attached to her bowel. It just not the average area they check so it was easily missed... and how often do you think they've found a baby attached to a bowel? I'm sure not often.

My point is, although it may not even be ectopic, please urge the sonographer to check even the unexpected areas just like that lady with the bowel.

All the very best of luck for your scan! I have heard many stories of babies staying hidden til 1 or 13 weeks on scans and then BOOM! they appear. Apparently this happend if you have a tilted uterus??

Good luck

Babyjo I am thinking of you and hoping things are going ok and you have some answers.

Me too hun xxx

Hi hun,

Just wondering how are you? xx

Hi gals, first of all I must apologise for not posting for some time. thank you so much for everyone's support, it has truly helped. I haven't meant to be a slacker. Just been a bit bed ridden. :doh:
Well, this post may be a little long. It has been a bit of an ordeal since last posting.

We decided to wait for the Mon for the BTs, but we knew we were putting off the inevitable. So after a pretty stressful weekend the BT's showed the levels were still rising - increased to 3800.:shakehead: Finally the docs took the situation seriously and wanted to rush me in for surgery ASAP. I met with an ob/gyn who is very good at laps on the Tuesday and he confirmed that he could not see anyting on the u/s but maybe a very very feint patch of possibly blood in the uterus. he is the only one that has picked this up!!!!:wall: He was a little concerned also because of my previous miscarriage being a partial molar pregnancy. Although the chances of them regrowing is 4% he didn't want to rule the seriousness of it out.

I went for surgery on the Thurs and the lap showed absolutley nothing. he did a d&c as well and sent that to the path lab. when I made it to recovery and finally came too, apparently the doc spoke with me but I don't remember.:rolleyes: They decided to rush me off to have CT scan. Made it back to the recovery ward pretty much exhausted, dehydrated and very hungry. Spoke with DH for about 1/2 hour then I was wisked away again for 3 hours to have a PET scan. The nurse was very blunt in telling me that she was looking for cancer or tumors.:cry:

anyway, after a very long day and a lot of emotions running rampant we made it back home around 7pm that night. Spoke to the doc the next day and he was still waiting for the path results but we got the all clear on the scans and a bt which he also did showed the levels were dropping - 2300

i had yet another bt on the Sat and went to see doc on Mon just gone. He has confirmed that the pregnancy was not ectopic afterall and it was about 2cmx2cmx8cm in my uterus and they put it down to chromosonal issues. If this has been picked up in my previous two scans it may have saved us doing a Lap, but it's done now.

My levels are dropping quite quickly (550 as of Mon) and he is confident to say that we are now on the road to recovery and that we can start ttc with the next cycle, whenever that may be. I will be doing two more bt's next week just to ensure we get to zero.
I have taken this week off to digest it all and take it all in.

girls, thank you thank you thank you for all of your input. it is so comforting to speak to others that have heard or experienced these types of scenarios first hand.

lets not give up hope. My prayers and thoughts go out to everyone and I can't wait to see us all in a different forum someday soon not too far down the track. I believe that we can get there, when our time is right.

Big hugs to you all. I will continue to stalk the forums and try to provide help and comfort where i can.

Love to you all.

xx

babyjo what an ordeal you have been through. I am pleased to hear your pregnancy was not ectopic or molar but I am truely sorry that the outcome didn't end with a baby this time. Praying for you and have everything crossed that you will conceieve a sticky bub soon. Thanks for updating us.

Babyjo - BIIIIG HUGS darl!!!!!!!!! While I'm glad it wasn't an ectopic, I'm so sorry you went through all that hassle and pain and didn't end up with a baby :( I'm crying just reading what you went through, so similar and yet so different to my experience with my first angel, and on the same date too, though 5 years apart. I'm praying that you get your healthy, sticky bfp when you start TTC again, you deserve to have it after all the heartbreak you've been through.
I'm thinking of you darl, and if you ever need to talk, don't hesitate to PM me, I always have a willing ear :)

oh hun I am ever so sorry for the loss of your angel...... really I am...... hope you and dh are ok.... I too am here if you ever need anything xxxx