I'm sorry I have to say it

Why do people that dare mention the word c-section get an absolute pasting. As a former c-section pregnancy (scheduled too!) I'm glad I wasnt a member when making my decision, that was made on "facts" by my obstetric provider one of the leading obstetricians in the country. Forgive me for thinking that he did more years of medical study that I care to mention.
For all those that are going to jump on me and tell me the joys of natural birth...you don't know me nor my history...yes I have done natural childbirth..yes I did no drugs and yes I was in labour for 48 hrs before I was given the choice to intervene and no I didn't let them.
There is nothing about my chidbearing life that is gentle (years of IVF and stillbirth) only my "parenting aspects" but does that make us less of a member.
I believe in most cases c-sections are a higher risk to mother and baby, BUT I live with a husband that has problems due to being in fetal distress and born blue only to be resussed 10 minutes later...I often ask him whether he would like to live a normal life with a c-section or be born natural with no drugs and have all these problems.
There is always 2 sides of a coin.

This is not a debate nor do I really need anyone to reply, I know what this site stands for I just needed to say it "for me"
Love to everyone
Bec
xxx

Bec, good for you! We live in such a media frenzy now that along with unemotional factual information there is also overwhelming emotive doctrines being pushed such that the difference between the two is becoming blurred.

Statistics are the most abused scientific tool! They are good to give a broad picture but ignore the individual. As well, they can be selectively offered to skew a picture in a way that suits the statistics giver.

The unarguable fact is that intervention is increasing in the first worlds, but at the same time birth complications and foetal/mother deaths are decreasing. The big question is whether there is too much intervention...and the jury is out on that still.

I don't mean to stir up a debate, I just point out that statistics ARE abused and misunderstood and used for political ends.

Here Here Bec.
My first was a c-section and I'm booked in for another one (elective). Nothing wrong with it. Each to their own. Anyway it doesn't matter how the baby comes into the world, just how you parent the baby for the rest of your life! O:)

Im with you Bec....

Im a bit sick of everyone trying to talk people out of having c-sections when they dont know the history or the facts behind the decision....

Bec & Sheree
I have to agree how a parent /OB choses for a baby to enter this world matters not in the long run - it is how you love and parent the child ever after.

I too have been through an emotionally distressing VB after our daughter was stillborn. Though her death had nothing to do with VB -sadly through a few pregnancy loss groups/websites I have heard several tragic stories of loss during VB that convinced me even before I knew these babies were twins to consider a CS for my next birth.

I know mine is an emotional decision and I know that many twins are born safely - vaginally but I refuse to take the risk or any chances.

I respect everyone has their own opinions and reasons for chosing the level of intervention they do.

Yes millions of babies are born everyday over the world (as they have for thousands of years) with no medical intervention at all. But who records the statistics of maternal/infant deaths in third world countries.The rates are still high in comparsion.

Birth is a natural process but some of us have more reason to make the choices we do and each to their own.

:flower: I come bearing gifts & waving a white flag... As I have never had a C/section... So can only speak from reading on here & discussions with my friends whom have had C/s...

From what I can read & hear when talking to my friends & on here & other various birth websites, it is the judgement on oneself... Noone is passing judgement on anyone or anyway that babies are birthed... The outcome in the end is the same & as long as the baby/ies & Mother are safe that's all that matters!

But in speaking to friends whom have had emergency C/s's... They seem to be really down about their own birthing experience, sure it wasnt what they had gone to the hospital hoping to have, but they still came home with a Wonderfully beautiful new life/lives in their arms... Isnt that what matters, I think anyone whom had any birthing experience in which they werent happy with should try to work toward having a positive birthing experience if they choose to have another child. People can & have had horrendous experiences with no/limited intervention, I have an aunty that had elective C/S's because she had a phobia of birthing vaginally & being incontinent for the rest of her life... She is hugely impressed with both her C/s experiences...

So I think everyone should take a DEEEEEEP breath..... Release their own demons & be happy they have more info for any consecutive pregnancies thay have & accept the way in future children are birthed...
I seriously would love it if a stork had dropped mine off, imagine no gentle, gentle fairy steps to the toilet for the first time!!! Aaaah, now that'd be bliss!!!!

Bec, I'm so sorry you feel like this. No-one should be given a pasting for thier birth choices either here or IRL.
Having had a vaginal birth and a c-section I would say that my recovery from the vaginal birth was a great deal faster and I would encourage any woman who was unsure to opt for a vaginal birth.
That said, I found the vaginal birth alot more traumatic than the c-section. I've thought about it a bit over the last few weeks and I have concluded that the reasons I feel more happy about Imran's birth despite the unexpected outcome are firsty that I was better educated about birth and therefor more empowered in the descions I made and secondly that my midwife was more supportive of my choices and tried her best to faciltate them.
I think that my own experience demonstrates something that I believe quite firmly; that birth/labour choices should be made by women for thier own benefit and that of thier child not dicatated by obs, hospitals and midwives for thier own convenience. I am aware that many women feel a great deal of trust in thier care providers and assume that they will make the best desicions on thier behalf but I personally don't have the same faith in the medical profession. When women are empowered and educated they are more likely to demand a higher standard of care from thier care providers and far more likely to feel happy about the outcome of thier childbirth experience regardless of how they give birth.

Tracy, I like the stork idea too. Personally I've always thought it would be nice if we could just lay an egg (not a baby sized one) and sit on it for 9 months.

=D> =D> well said Bec! I have to agree that people opt for c-sections for varied reasons & no one has the right to spray anyone for their choices.

I have felt the 'ohhh it wasn't natural then' brunt after my labour was induced...well sorry but my life was at risk as was my child's (ex high bp) if I didn't give birth soon.

So tell me...where can I get a stork :)

Bec, sorry you feel like you've been lambasted (I may have made that word up 8-[ ). I think it is your choice how you get bubs from the inside to the outside (and I think we're all grown up enough to at least try to make an informed choice). I also personally think that sometimes we'd all be better off physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually if we considered the actualy emergence of the baby more as part of the bigger picture, rather than the supreme culmination, icing on the cake, fireworks going off finish of a pregnancy. (How disappointing, if that was the piece-de-resistance of raising a child).

Birthing a baby takes a lot more than 1 hr on a surgery table or 20 hours in a birthing suite. Just as our babies are preparing for life in the outside world from the moment they're conceived, our bodies are preparing to help them come out and look after them once they're breathing oxygen. If we can prepare our minds, emotions and spirit during this time too, I think we'd all be better prepared for the "emerging", whether that be without drugs in your lounge room, in a birthing suite or in an operating theatre.

I just think sometimes we, as women, place so much importance on the actual "birth" that we miss the special big picture mystery of a new life created, developed, birthed and raised.

Mistifying wrote:

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I just think sometimes we, as women, place so much importance on the actual "birth" that we miss the special big picture mystery of a new life created, developed, birthed and raised.

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=D> =D> =D>

ABSOLUTELY! =D> =D> =D>
I agree so much that theres almost tears in my eyes... you have reassured me of the great people we have here on BB

I have read a few things where the forbidden c-section was brought up and I have to say that most of the responses are about "have you thought about this" "vaginal birth is best" etc etc and I have to say that if they are willing to chat about it, they have more than likely thought about it quite well

Birth is just the process of the child getting here and as it was mentioned, Id much rather celebrate my child than worry about the way it got here?

Again its not to slam pro 'natural' birth people but its kind of like a religion, each to their own and theres no need to push your beliefs onto someone else

Hope I havent stood on any toes. I havent meant to - just my opinion!

I've had an absolute ****ter of a day so I probably shouldn't reply, but I will because I don't want to have this compounding with the crap I already am dealing with here...

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Why do people that dare mention the word c-section get an absolute pasting.

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Can you show me an example?

I have NEVER said that any birth is superior. I firmly believe that no matter how your baby is born, it is a birth, in any shape or fashion. I have supported many different births from natural to emergency caesar and do you know what? All were just as good and successful as the other, because we did everything we possibly could, the couples were informed and that's all that mattered.

I think all of these feelings are coming up because the birth of those commenting hasn't properly been de-briefed or dealt with. If you feel bad about angry about things which are not even directed at you or said in poor taste, that's an emotion you are creating in yourself about something - it would not bother you if you had dealt with it. Feelings happen for a reason.

I understand how you feel in that I get the ****s on here trying to post how I like to birth and parent, even pass on knowledge which I feel lucky enough to know about, yet I get the third degree from others saying things like, nah epidurals rock, or some horror vaginal birth so I needed a caesar - it seems people are trying to make themselves feel better about things at other peoples cost. It's not a friggen competition. I see others post too about wanting natural births or gentle parenting yet of course there's always a hoard to talk about routines and experts books. Why???? If someone is after tips on how they can best manage without epidurals etc WHY can I not talk about BOTH the pros and cons without having to read my post a million times and worry about offending people?

Yes this is a gentle site, I find things that I like to read or interest me like the poem the other day and I posted it - you see it as an attack on caesars, doctors, the medical profession - yet I see it as a poem beautifully illustrating the power and strength of woman and it made me feel good about myself. I thought this would be nice to share.

I am excited about what I have learnt over the last year and a bit, I wish I had known it before so I go nuts wanting to share it with everyone else in the hope I can excite them too with something new, more knowledge or more options.

I can't seem to make all of you happy which is impossible anyway, gees I have even posted caesarean articles on the main site which are non biased and I am writing more to help people understand what it's like to have to choose a caesarean.

So if you have a problem with how I run this site, email me privately - I don't appreciate public 'discussions' clearly aimed at me and how I run the place. I think there has been a great deal of over reaction. If you prefer a site where you can all run wild and I will offer no suggestions or guidance, then just say the word and I will keep my opinions to myself. Will be much easier for me time wise so it doesn't bother me.

My comments were not directly aimed at anyone , Sorry that you have taken offence personally.

I will leave it at that, as some of it may get taken the wrong way.

I agree with Kelly. I haven't seen anyone get a pasting when they have mentioned caesarians. People ask others for their opinions on their situations when they are considering c/s and they are given them, if they don't want them they they shouldn't ask for them. And for some people they may be gaining information that they haven't thought of before. People get support here no matter what they choose for their birth, people who have had terminations, gone through IVF and losses also have support. Everyone here is supported, if they weren't then there wouldn't be so many people that come here everyday. It's very rare that someone gets shot down or someone has a go at them for something that they have said or for their beliefs, and when that has happened they have been dealt with and the post removed.

Kelly does a wonderful job and spends lots of time in making this site what it is. I have seen some awful, awful sites out there and if this site went the same way I would be severly disappointed. I think that if anyone has an issue that they feel should be dealt with it should not be done on the public forum and should be for Kelly's eyes only in a private e-mail, which I'm sure she would be only glad to discuss with you privately.

The thing is though, its not a personal attack. Not on my behalf anyway. I guess I shouldnt speak for other people.

again, i will leave it at that, just wanted to reconfirm that in no way was it a personal attack on how the site is run or anything or even towards Kelly.

I tend to stay clear of c-sec vs vaginal birth conversations for reasons like the debate it can cause.

Thats all im going to say. :)

I want to add that I was contacted by members in the form of email in the past about one member coming on too strong with the anti-intervention message (which I agreed with) and it was dealt with quickly, she no longer posts - a decision she made. I asked her to tone it down but she chose not to come back.

If you can tell me where you find any posts of mine to be "unacceptable" to those who have had a caesarean and why, then I will rectify that.

I just think it's all being seen/interpreted the wrong way.

Colleen - a bit of healthy debate is fine. I haven't seen any discussion get out of control and I always make sure they end on a good note. I don;t think anything has gone off the rails and stayed there. I think it's great for women to see this even if they don't comment - they can see both sides of the debate and form their own views. It's healthy. Nothing nasty.

Again, can anyone point out a specific post they are referring to?

I have yet to see anything that I find 'unacceptable'. People can interpret things anyway they want and that is fine, but I feel it's unfair that people are seen as attaking others when they are simply giving their opinion on something or sharing something that they think is interesting.

Sorry you had a $hitty day Kel :hugs:

Kelly, I'm sorry you had a cr@ppy day yesterday. :flower: I for one did not post aiming at you and how this site is run, rather I was making a general statement about media etc and this was how I read Bec's original post (hope I'm not being presumptuous, Bec).

How sad for all us women that something as beautiful as giving birth has become a contentious issue...again, I'm talking about the media in general and how women now feel that their birth choices can be harshly judged by others.

This site stands out from all the others that I've seen in that it won't allow obnoxious posts and that is something special. It is nice to know that even when feelings run high posts are always gentle and well-intentioned.

The thing is, every aspect of parenting, from the pregnancy right through to when kids grow up into adults, is subject to some form of 'debate'. All parents, I would say mothers more so, are judged in some form by others - whether it be family and friends, strangers, the media, their partner or even themselves. And the worst judges of women are other women. It's sad but it's true. I really feel that BellyBelly is one place where that does not happen. Kelly has worked hard to make this a place that supports parents, particularly women, without judgement.

We all make our own choices with regard to childbirth (and all the issues that come after), and we make these choices with our babies, and our own, best interests at heart. I am a huge believer in infomed choice - it doesn't matter how you give birth as long as you know all the facts and have all the information you need to make the choice that is right for you - if you do this and a c/s is the way to go for you - then more power to you. We should all be comfortable with our own birthing choices.

Bon

To begin with, I didn't have a problem with having an emerg c/sec. What started to really wear me down was all the comments to both myseld and my family wondering if I was disappointed with my birth. At the time I had much more pressing issues to deal with - getting my daughter well enough to leave SCN and come home.

I now have days where I am disappointed I didn't get to experience any kind of labour but one look at my precious daughter and the possibility that she wouldn't have been here otherwise put paid to that pretty quickly.

I guess I really wish that people would think before they open their mouths, probably a bit too wishful really. In the end, it doesn't matter how our children entered this world, what matters is that they are here and need our focus on them.

Bek,

It is hard for those around us to know what to say, especially friends and family who haven't been around birth for ages or at all.

Our mothers birthed in a really bad time and many have bad or upsetting memories of a controlled, medicated process frought with rules and regulations and felt like a passive 'patient' (in that I mean women are not sick when they give birth, so they are a woman and not patient), not an almighty powerful woman giving birth with choices and information.

We can discuss these things on BB and all come out more knowledgable and informed about it, but the fact is that most of those around us don't have a forum like this to post on, on a day to day basis and don't have insight and know what we go through, how we feel etc. All we can do is learn how to better deal with it ourselves and accept that they didn't mean it with malice, but they probably just were trying to show a canny way of caring or asking you about the birth when they don't know what else to say or do. It's like miscarriage - you don't know what to say to someone and what they need until you have been there - we all know that saying to someone, 'you'll get over it with time' or 'there's always another time' doesn't help, but for some people, this is all they know how to be supportive or show interest in your situation.