Creditors- why are they so cruel (long)

Some of you may know we're pretty badly off after DF being amde redundant several times in the last year. Anyhow our biggest debt is a $20,000 loan that has been sent to the creditors. Now at the moment we are trying to catch up the rental arrears on out house so that they will give us another lease.

I've just had the creditor ring me and accuse me of lying- they're saying I'm married because I have reffered to DF as 'my husband' (we've been engaged for 2 years who hasn't) they are also saying that I am lying about how many children we have as the person who served us with legal documents recorded 'children' instead of 'child'.

This woman on the phone was so bloody cruel she actually yelled at me when I said that we would try to make payments starting in 3 weeks, saying "WELL YOU HAVEN'T DONE THAT UP TILL NOW HAVE YOU?" How unprofessional.

I ended up saying to her at one point, if you could just stop for a second, we are trying really hard to get our debts in order and I understand that you have money to collect but we are people."

She didn't care, she threatened forcing us into bankruptcy, told me that the legal advice I have been given is false (just to scare me) and tried to force me to agree to paying $150 a week starting today.

I am left crying my freaking eyes out. I feel so broken, I manage every week to stretch our money as far as it will go and we are trying so hard. I don't know what to do. We don't want ot go bankrupt because we know how long that will affect us for and DF is trying to get as much work as he can at the moment.

Sorry and thanks for listening, don't need anything back, just feel hurt.

I couldn't read and not say anything. Unfortunately I don't have any advice, just big :hug:. I really hope you can find a way out of this.

Thanks Jodi big hugs is what I need and I'm home alone :(

Wow that's rude, if i were in your position (and i have been) i would ask for a copy of that phone conversation. They are required to tape every call. i would also be asking for all contact to be made via letter from now on.

Big :hug: to you

Oh hun :hug: I am sorry that the woman was so nasty to you.

I know you probably dont want to speak to them again but is it worth calling up again and speaking to someone else and telling them how the phonecall went down?

:hug:

Aw hun :hug:

Try not to let them get to you. Debt collectors do their job by getting nasty as it is usually how people respond best for them (ie pay up)

Take a written note of every contact that you have with them. Don't make rude comments in your note, but if someone is agressive then note that they were and ifyou can remember what they said write that down too. The best policy is to always be honest with them and never agree to do something that you know you won't be able to.

Just remember that debt colectors only get paid if they get the money so they try any method that they think they will work. Interestingly they usually try intimidation first on women whereas they usually try negotiation first with men.

So if you are getting really stressed about it tell them that you can't speak to them right now because you have a distressed baby but if you can have their number you would be happy to have yourself or your DF ring them back. That way you (or DF) are prepared for the conversation and they aren't quite so much - probably have to get yoru file out etc - so it gives you the upper hand.

Good luck. I commend anyone who trys to work through their debt rather than taking the seemingly "easier" options.

Alibaby- It probably is worth it but I don't think I have it in me, have just spoken to DF who is alot more laid back about it than I am, which has made me eve more upset because I feel like he is ignoring the fact that it is going to take us 5 years to pay this off and these people won't be happy till the debt is gone...

That's disgraceful! I would be contacting her superior about that - you may be in debt, but you're still a human being. You could possibly even contact the relevant ombudsman, it's not a question of whether or not you're gonna pay, but you should absolutely not be treated that way.

Also, have you thought of contacting someone like Fox Symes? Their ads are always on here - they use their contacts and experience to roll all your debts into one payment, and bring the repayments down far lower than the normal person can. One girl on here actually ended up paying less out each fortnight, but got a better credit rating!

Good luck Hun - I know what it's like to be abused by creditors, and trust me, once you speak to the right person, you'd be amazed at how much easier it can get :)

Muppity- exactly unfortunately they don't commend us, she told me " you have to go to you parents and they have to pay it otherwise you will be bankrupt" She ended up making me agree to $100 a week payments starting in 4 weeks, but I don't know how we will do that and it's going to mean even less food and my dreams of buying some new underwear will be out the window lol

God I must have asked to be taught some very harsh lessons this lifetime...

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Alibaby- It probably is worth it but I don't think I have it in me, have just spoken to DF who is alot more laid back about it than I am, which has made me eve more upset because I feel like he is ignoring the fact that it is going to take us 5 years to pay this off and these people won't be happy till the debt is gone...

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Hun if you are in a position to agree to repaying a certain amount every week/fortnight and they agree to it and you stick with your repayment schedule they shouldn't continue to hound you or come chasing you. So long as you stick to your side of the bargain they should be happy.

I have dealt with creditors before and have felt bullied in a way. I had a GE debt that got passed to creditors. In a way I was happy that it did so that I wasnt paying the interest anymore as I couldnt get ahead paying 27% interest on the card. The first person I spoke to was so rude and upset me so much - wanted me to ask friends or my boss for money to pay the debt in full right away (WTF!!!) and I was quite upset at that. Rang back the next day and spoke to someone else and worked out a payment plan that I could afford (just).

Just giving you an example as there are some really nasty ones out there and some that are more underestanding in a very stressful situation :hug:

In the past it has helped if I have written down in front of me what I need to tell them so that I dont get flustered by them and can get my points across.

Maybe when you feel like you can talk to them again, give them a call. Even if its tomorrow. :hug:

Some good advice from Muppity as well.

Yes, if you can request a copy of the phone call that would be great.

To answer your question: my guess is that they are paid commission or something... or that they themselves are on the receiving end of some pretty foul language. I know that doesn't mean they should be so mean to you... just a possible explanation.

And yes. That is very unprofessional. Don't subscribe to it. Maybe tell them that YOU are recording the call. And do what government agencies do if the client becomes aggressive... tell them that the degree of aggression is unacceptable and that you are going to terminate this call (never hang up without warning). Remain calm. Maybe their strategy is to frazzle you so much that you won't be able to keep your "story" straight :dunno: But try not to take their accusations personally... they most likely do it to everyone.

The only creditor I have had is the school where I send my DD (late school fees)... but they are always polite so i can't say I have had any negative experience... but my DH works in the finance industry and tells me some horror stories of people's attitudes.

you WILL get through to the other side of all this darl. Hold tight. Retain your dignity. it sounds like you are doing really well. Speak ultra respectfully to them and tell them that "it must be really difficult doing your job" empathy always gets people on side. But don't lower yourself. When something they say hurts visualise water sliding off a ducks back... don't you dare absorb it ;)

:hug:

ETA: excellent advice Muppity! :thumbsup:

How completely horrible! I don't have any advice, but what an awful thing for you to have to go through. You're right, you should not be treated like that. Sorry, I don't have any other advice, just wanted to show my support.

Thanks everyone for your responses, I'm feeling a little better now after giving DS a big cuddle. I have has some nice people that I've spoken to but this was just horrible. You're right we WILL get through this sometimes it just seems a long way away and I jsut want to be able to enjoy our lives, not worry about some stupid loan we got when we were being naive and stupid 2 years ago!

Don't expect them to be very professional - Muppity is right about how they are. However NO ONE has the right to speak to you that way. Give them heaps back and tell them what you can pay and to stop the threats xoxoxo

The way Debt Collection agencies work is they buy the debt from the original company at a lower rate and then attempt to get you to pay the whole thing (which is where they earn their money).

You've bought yourself 4 weeks by agreeing to a payment plan.

What you now need to do is put in writing your income and outgoings as well as what you can realistically afford to repay on a regular basis.

In the letter let them know that you are happy to agree to a 6 monthly review to see if you can afford to increase those payments should your situation change and you will be happy to include any lump sums should they become available (tax etc).

No company wants to see you go bankrupt purely because it means that they lose money in a big way.

Your other option is to wait until they send a sheriff (which is the next step if you ignore it) and go into a Court Ordered Payment Arrangement. Very similar to you going into a direct arrangement with the Debt Collector EXCEPT if you default, the court can order repossession of goods to the value of the debt.

PLUS - dealing with the Debt Collector, if you pay your loan for say 6 months they may offer you a reduced settlement amount in a few months time. If you and your DF are in a better position then, you may be able to afford a lump sum (personal loan, consolidation loan etc) to get rid of it for a lower cost than the original debt.

Also, ask if they have frozen the interest. They should do that if they've bought the debt - in which case even if it takes you 5 years of a payment plan, you may find that after 2 years you can offer a lump sum to completely finalise the debt.

I hope that's helped - don't stress hun - you just got a mega ***** the other day and she had no business speaking to you the way she did and threatening you with things that are not right. It'll get better mate - I promise. Money problems are evil but it does go away and with time, planning and a STRICT budget you'll be smiling back on this in a few years time :hug:

oh sweet:hug::hug: i am sorry for you, i cant make it better and i wish i could. vent away that person sounded very disrespectful and rude. BTW hubbie didn't get that job :( but maybe your hubbie might get some over time ? i dunno but one can hope. Mind you he can only do so much hey. maybe you need to cut back some where where i dunno from our convo's your cutting it very slim. can u cut back on meat? we eat red meat not that often to save money mind u neither of us are big meat fans but im craving loads of beef recently. Do you have energy efficient globes? when we went through a real tough bit i served backed beans 3 times a week and porridge everyday.

Squidipa- yeah I thought about cutting back meat, but I get anaemic if I don't eat meat 6 out of 7 days a week- it sucks! Really sorry to hear that he didn't get he job, is there anything else coming up on the horizon for him?

Mummato2- thanks darl, it feels really good to have someone be so constructive the way you were, jsut hearing 'it will be ok' sometimes makes all the difference!

Waiting till DF gets home from work tonight and we're going to have a big talk about it cause it's getting me down alot.

Thank you all again for your support don't know what I would do without all the BB girls!

Awww hun, that just sux. It really is worth finding someone to help you budget, the Salvos I think are able to assist with this else I think I know someone who can.

Are all your other debts consolidated?

Good luck *hugs* and definately call them back, it makes things easier.

No debts aren't consolidated as I know that means getting a permanent record on your credit file which is what we're trying to avoid. We're super good with budgets, have a different one for each week of the month depending on direct debits and the only thing we could cut out is DF's pack a day habit, but that is easier said than done apparently! lol

Just at a bit of a stand still as I feel like I've explored all the options and just keep hitting brick walls...

ella would it be cheaper to take iron tablets coles sells them cheap, or maybe u and bub eat meat those days and hubbie misses out... he defenetly should quit smoking as thats money you could put towards re payments easy for em to say i know.

Ella- i don't mean to sound rude here, and i do appologise that it will sound rude. but is ttc #2 really a good idea atm? while trying to get a head on finances?
Also loan consolidation doesn't leave a record, it just combines your loans (assuming you do it through a bank) over a longer period so you pay less for a longer time.
What about smaller serves of meat? and def get df to give up/cut down/go to rollies.
all the best.

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The only thing we could cut out is DF's pack a day habit, but that is easier said than done apparently! lol

Just at a bit of a stand still as I feel like I've explored all the options and just keep hitting brick walls...

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Get your DF to speak with his GP about a tablet called Champix. My DH was a pack a day smoker as well and couldn't for the life of him quit.

He tried everything! All your Nicobate products are just substitute nicotine - whereas Champix is a drug that works on the neuro-transmitters in the brain that crave nicotine.

You are encouraged to smoke for the first 14 days while taking the tablets and then your DF will find that the cigarettes won't give him that satisfaction they used to and he should be able to drop it.

My DH did it in 10 days and hasn't had a cigarette since.

He'll need a 2 month script, so he'll go in (and HAS to tell the Dr all other attempts have failed) get his first 4 weeks, then in week 3 go back for the next 4 weeks.

The script is about $25 per month - but the catch is you're allowed it once only. After that, it goes to full price at $450 per script - so it's worth giving it a decent go!!

As for feeling like you've exhausted all options and hitting a brick wall - it does get like that especially when your outgoings are a lot more than your incoming.

To that, I would suggest you do anything at all work wise. If you can manage a job throughout the day or night, then your DF can babysit - even better if you both find work try alternatives in Daycare like Family Daycare. It's a lot cheaper than the Long Daycare Centres and the CCB rebate in FDC is higher (33% more in fact) - so both of you working should be profitable. Don't be too proud to give anything a shot - just remember, $20k really isn't that much debt (even though it can feel like that) and with your heads down and bums up - you'll be on the good end of it sooner rather than later :hug: It does get better - I promise

By consolidating your debt, what I mean is looking for a loan (personal) and rolling all your other debts into that.

So effectively, if your total debts are $20,000 and that includes credit cards, then instead of paying 15% interest (or whatever) then you pay all accounts in full with the loan money, and then only pay the 11% on the whole amount. And as it's a new loan, you can fix up the payments to the minimum from day dot and not have the stress as to what you pay on which day in which month.

Good luck!

Ella, I am sorry love, HUGS!!

Filling Bankrupsy is not as bad as what you think it is! Have a look online.. Its sometimes the best way out!!

ONly affects you for 5 years but 3 on borrowing monies etc.. and during that time you can save money to do what you choose in 5 years if you want to borrow money then.. youwill have a bigger deposit.

Hang in there darling!

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Ella- i don't mean to sound rude here, and i do appologise that it will sound rude. but is ttc #2 really a good idea atm? while trying to get a head on finances?
Also loan consolidation doesn't leave a record, it just combines your loans (assuming you do it through a bank) over a longer period so you pay less for a longer time.
What about smaller serves of meat? and def get df to give up/cut down/go to rollies.
all the best.

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I agree with that and don't think it's rude - Orlando is still young, so even if you put it off for another year or so, that could be a year to get everything under control and even get a bit of money behind you without a massive age gap between them.

FTB and the baby bonus only go so far and don't help to cover all costs of a new bubba long term.

However, this is a personal decision that only you and DF can make xxx

As for debt consolidation, the other ladies are right, it's an enquiry on your CRAA but you are allowed 5 per year (an average) and it is considered acceptable. The only time I wouldn't go for it is if you have been defaulted, because you won't get the finance AND you are adding further enquiries on an already rocky file....

Lastly, stay away from the companies that promise debt consolidation to bad credit - they are sharks and will leave you in a worse position than you are already in PLUS they will take everything you own to get their money.

Fox Symes etc are similar. You'll go into a Part X arrangement (which is one step lower than bankruptcy), give them what you can afford each week and they pay your creditors. What you don't know is they negotiate a lower rate to settle those debts, still get you to pay the full amount AND that's how they make their money. What Fox Symes can negotiate on your behalf is something YOU can do yourself directly with your creditors AND you keep what you save without going into Part X....

I was a Business Consultant for 10 years prior to having my son, so if there is anything that you'd like to know off the forum, please feel free to PM me :hug:

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Ella, I am sorry love, HUGS!!

Filling Bankrupsy is not as bad as what you think it is! Have a look online.. Its sometimes the best way out!!

ONly affects you for 5 years but 3 on borrowing monies etc.. and during that time you can save money to do what you choose in 5 years if you want to borrow money then.. youwill have a bigger deposit.

Hang in there darling!

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You still need to pay the money back though - bankruptcy doesn't mean getting out of your debt scot free plus you can't own assets over a particular value etc......it's not just as simple as not borrowing for 3 years - I'd recommend a serious talk with a Financial Councillor to go through ALL the pros and cons for Bankruptcy before doing it.

Plus you'll find on some finance applications (mortgages etc) the question is "Have you EVER been declared Bankrupt".......even if it isn't on you CRAA it is logged in another database and you will always be a bigger risk to creditors.

I'd recommend it for major financial issues - but honey, $20k really isn't major!

Thanks everyone for your replys.

As for TTC#2 we're doing it now as I'm doing university this year and looking after Orlando therefore it will be difficult for us to do work for me around that, we figured that having #2 this year is a good idea as it means that once I finish my degree at the end of next year I will be fine to go back to full time work , rather than starting work and taking time off again to have more bubbas. Does that make sense?

We've spoken with a financial counselor and also explored bankruptcy alot and simply cant' see the logic in it. As someone said, you do have to pay back some of the debt anyhow and there is a lifetime mark on your file that will come up everytime a loan is applied for. My in laws were bankrupt 10 years ago and even though they own a huge property, they can't get finance...

DF smokes the cheapest smokes he can, they're tailoreds but are actually cheaper than buying tobacco. He's tried quitting heaps of times, but I think the stress we are under and the pressure he feels to quit makes it too much for him and it always ends in tears.

I thought about buying less meat, but we actually spend very little on meat at all, I go to the butchers and spend $40 for a fortnight and that gets us through...

Mummato2- you're right it's not a huge amount of money, but just feels that way at the moment because financial freedom looks so far away.

Trying to get DF to talk about it today as its his day off, but we are both so stressed we jsut seem to snap at each other at the moment.

Wish me luck

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Thanks everyone for your replys.

As for TTC#2 we're doing it now as I'm doing university this year and looking after Orlando therefore it will be difficult for us to do work for me around that, we figured that having #2 this year is a good idea as it means that once I finish my degree at the end of next year I will be fine to go back to full time work , rather than starting work and taking time off again to have more bubbas. Does that make sense?

We've spoken with a financial counselor and also explored bankruptcy alot and simply cant' see the logic in it. As someone said, you do have to pay back some of the debt anyhow and there is a lifetime mark on your file that will come up everytime a loan is applied for. My in laws were bankrupt 10 years ago and even though they own a huge property, they can't get finance...

DF smokes the cheapest smokes he can, they're tailoreds but are actually cheaper than buying tobacco. He's tried quitting heaps of times, but I think the stress we are under and the pressure he feels to quit makes it too much for him and it always ends in tears.

I thought about buying less meat, but we actually spend very little on meat at all, I go to the butchers and spend $40 for a fortnight and that gets us through...

Mummato2- you're right it's not a huge amount of money, but just feels that way at the moment because financial freedom looks so far away.

Trying to get DF to talk about it today as its his day off, but we are both so stressed we jsut seem to snap at each other at the moment.

Wish me luck

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Just remember tho, once you finish uni and get a job MOST places have a maternity leave scheme, so putting ttc off until you finish uni and do a year or 2 in your new profession you can have money and leave and a lot less stress.
I just did 2nd yr (part time tho) while struggling with horrible horrible morning sickness (which i still have at 38 weeks), fatigue and generally feeling like crap as well as working full time. I will be doing 2 subjects distance this semester and on paid maternity leave, but next semester i will work part time (maybe 2 days a week)and study 1 or 2 subjects aswell as looking after bub. There are always ways around things.
Have you looked into night time jobs such as shelf stacking 2 or 3 evenings a week or if DF works evenings you do mornings in like a bakery or something?
I am just worried about teh financial and emotional stress of a second child with the financial issues you already have.

Filing Bankrupsy cleans your plate all together.. You can own a car up to 5000$ there are certain things you can own.. BUt ya 20,000 is not much at all!!

When you file bank.. you don't have to pay back the monies at all, its given you a paper that says this will affect you for XYZ years etc. And you have a clean slate. That is the idea of bankrupsy or people wouldnt be doing it if they would still have to pay the monies back, why would you file bank as well?

PM me if you want a few government sites that tell you exactly what your position is and the creditors.

Sorry, I don't want to be argumentative, just want to make sure people have the right information about a serious decision like Bankruptcy.

You DO have to pay back money and it doesn't just disappear once you've been discharged. There is a PUBLIC database where this record is kept permanently. This is why some creditors (especially for big assets like home loans) ask the question if you've EVER been bankrupt. You are a risk if you ever have been. This isn't to say gaining credit is impossible, but it will be damn difficult!

Consumer Credit Legal Centre NSW - Bankruptcy : General information

What is bankruptcy?

Bankruptcy involves an exchange. You hand over control of your property and finances to a Trustee (the person who takes control over your property) in exchange for protection from legal action by your creditors (the people/companies you owe money to). You do not have to have a minimum amount of debts or property to enter bankruptcy.

Some of your assets (property you own) may be sold to pay your debts. If your annual income is over a certain amount you must make payments to your Trustee, which go towards paying your debts.

Disadvantages of bankruptcy

Your assets that vest in your Trustee might be taken and sold to pay your debts. The following assets do not vest and so they cannot be taken:

* A car up to the value of about $6700*
* Necessary household property and clothes
* Tools of trade up to $3350*
* Money or property bought with compensation payments for personal injuries
* Superannuation and life insurance may be protected. Check with your insurer.

Warning: Your home may be taken and sold by the Trustee even after you have been discharged from bankruptcy.

* You cannot borrow more than $4739* without informing the lender that you are an undischarged bankrupt.
* Your bankruptcy will be recorded on your credit record for 7 years from the date you become bankrupt. After you have been discharged from the bankruptcy you can have this fact noted on your credit report. See Fact Sheet: Your Credit Report for more information. The listing may cause you problems with borrowing money.
* Your bankruptcy will be recorded permanently on the National Personal Insolvency Index which is a public record (this is where if a credit provider asks if you've EVER been bankrupt, they have a way of knowing and checking - it will follow you FOREVER)
* You may have to surrender your passport to your Trustee. You will need the permission of the Trustee to travel overseas. (Note: Travelling overseas without the Trustee's permission is an offence under the Bankruptcy Act for which you can be prosecuted.)
* You may not be able to continue working in some professions and you cannot be a company director or manager while you are bankrupt.

Ella - as you are studying law you might want to check with the QLS as to whether bankruptcy may prevent you from being admitted once you have finished your law degree and PLT course...just a thought.

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Ella - as you are studying law you might want to check with the QLS as to whether bankruptcy may prevent you from being admitted once you have finished your law degree and PLT course...just a thought.

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Yep I thought about that also, we are definitely not doing bankruptcy, mummato2, thanks for putting that info up, that's what I was talking about. Everyone thinks that it goes away, but it never does!

Not studying law anymore though, gone back to nursing to finish my BN and then do Midwifery postgrad...

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Yep I thought about that also, we are definitely not doing bankruptcy, mummato2, thanks for putting that info up, that's what I was talking about. Everyone thinks that it goes away, but it never does!

Not studying law anymore though, gone back to nursing to finish my BN and then do Midwifery postgrad...

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Oh I am so glad to hear that hun!

You know, it's a really big misconception that people can just bankrupt and then have a clean slate after 3 years (5 to 7 to completely discharge).

What would stop me financing a buttload of personal unsecured debt, bankrupting and then in 3-7 years starting all over again financing, bankrupting etc?.....if there wasn't a permanent database there would be more bad debt than there already is and people like you and I that qualify for personal finance would be paying higher interest rates to pay for all the people that would bankrupt their finances without a worry in the world! (think of it as a shoplifting analogy - the more a store owner gets stolen from them, the higher their prices go in order to still make a margin on their business)

Sorry for the rant - it's just that a lot of people don't realise what bankruptcy entails and I'd hate to see someone in debt only $20k have that follow them for the rest of their lives.

Like I said before, your situation WILL get better and in a couple of years you'll be looking back at this time and think "wow, look how far we've come and WE did it!"

Good on you for looking at an education - that will in itself reward you better financially as well......what does your fiance do? How's his job hunting going?

oh if your studying nursing, why not join an agency for short shifts will DF is home?? AIns are never out of work!

Fiance is working doing a managers traineeship at liquorland so that's a good career move for him. As for me working as an AIN, the only shifts I could do are night shifts, and if I'm going to be studying this year and DF is at work all day every day I dont' think it will work as I will get 2-3 hours sleep max and I can't study with that little sleep lol