my child keeps getting bitten at daycare ...

. . . Today there was another incident. The incident reports (I have quite a collection now) don't say who the biter is but I already know since I've seen the culprit in action biting another girl (who was just sitting down minding her own business) and DD1 names her anyway. Actually when the carer was saying that "another child bit her" today, DD1 identified her in front of everyone lol.

This has happened more times than I can count, and one of the carers has even tried to insinuate that its my daughters fault, saying she "stands too close to the other children" etc. Yet she's never had any problems with other kids but this girl has bitten other children before! They're in the 2-3 age room and the biter is one of the youngest aparently. These aren't little bites either, we're talking broken skin and bruising that lasts WEEKS. Todays incident report says that it was DD1s fault for "climbing over the other child".

I'm tired of this happening and I'm tired of their victim blaming! The parents handbook states that if a child is being violent towards other children and the problem isn't being resolved that child will be removed from the centre. How many times does my toddler have to come home with bruises before enough is enough? Apart from this problem it's a great centre, she has friends there and I don't really want to move her but they're just not addressing this at all.

The child who did the biting should get an accident report as well.
DS used to bite and we had to sign the reports when it happened.
I would ask the director about it - I would have been horrified if they had not told us that he was doing it, how would we know to do something about it?

I don't know if the parents are notified, only the carer who witnessed the incident and the supervising carer sign. From what I hear her parents are aware that there's a problem but to what extent I have no idea.

ooh i just saw the age group, thats a lot more serious than younger kids (mine was under 2) as they are a lot more aware of what they are doing, and often much more verbal
The bites sound pretty bad to draw blood and leave bruising.
Id take issue with it, tell them even if your child did do something (not that Im suggesting she did) where is their behaviour management policy - biting is not an appropriate reaction and they should be working with the child's parents.

as much as it isnt nice it is fairly common for toddlers to go through a biting stage i doubt it is done as a malisious act. perhaps chat with your DD about it saying that is she sees XYZ coming to go play else where, give your DD some tools to protect her self.
can you change days your dd is in childcare to when the biter isnt there?
Definatley have a talk with the director to see what they are doing as well to protect your child not only from the biting but to ensure there is not transmission of bodily fluids from the biter.

Neenee - that's a really tough one for you. There is biter in my DS's room, and having seen him in action with other kids, I'd have to say he's one of the nastiest 2yo's I've ever met - and I have to kind of disagree with Oorki, with this kid it is totally obvious that he's being malicious at times. And in our case, it's rather sad, as it's also obvious that the carers in the room have to manage him, but they don't particularly like him, he's just a very difficult child all round. Obviously, they can't give up on him, nor would I expect them to, but I also think that as the parent of a generally non-offending child, we at least have the advantage that the problem is being acknowledged, and not blamed on the kids that are the victims. And yes - we too have had bruises from bites that have lasted up to a week, and broken skin. Have no solutions really, although I am happy to help DS learn to stand up for himself - he's very good at saying "no biting Axxxx, that's not nice", or even "go away Axxx" when necessary. This hasn't been prompted per se, it's developed from his conversations, but a bit of assertive role playing maybe doesn't go astray - as an adult, I won't accept bullying behaviour towards me, so can't see why my 2yo should just have to put up with it either.

It's awful isn't it? Biting is such a frustrating thing, we've had our share of serial biters at my centre, thing is they are usually sly, you can watch them like a hawk and the second you turn your back to help someone, bang, there they go again.
It's a really difficult thing to deal with in the childcare situation - our hands are tied as to what we can do, Accreditation now has decided that we aren't even permitted to use time out as a behavioural management strategy - so what are we meant to do? It's so upsetting to the child, the child's parents, the staff and most of the time, the biter's parents are horrified too. I know how sick we all feel when the biter has bitten the same child yet again.
I am not by any means dismissing your feelings, you have every right to feel how you do, and yes, the parent of the biter should be informed every single time that the biting occurs. And behvioural mangement strategies developed, but as discussed above, just what they can be is in question.
Most biting occurs in the toddlers group, so by the 2-3 room, I would think this age should be growing out of the behaviours and really understand right from wrong.

As the parent of a vicious child - I will say that a child of almost 3 knows what he is doing. Only he doesn't know why.

Legally, if another child is getting hurt, it is your DUTY to restrain and remove (if possible) the offender. You can't let a bully's rights infringe another child's right to not be assaulted. You may have to check out local law, but I know that's UK law and Aus law is usually pretty similar.

My son has been a real rotter for two weeks now: Nursery told DH but he reckoned it was DS just being a bit boistrous. Now it's serious. Our nursery are talking about if he doesn't improve with the measures we are taking they will get a behavioural specialist in to see what else we can do.

Quite frankly, if it were my child being attacked all the time I'd be furious if all Nursery did was ask for a fake apology - which often wasn't given. I'd want that child picked up and removed from the area, which is what I've told Nursery to do and am giving them written permission as they're a bit jittery about that. Nursery have never blamed the victim (and I'd be cross if they did): if DS was being attacked then fair enough, but he's not. HE has the problem, not the person who "stood too close" or "thought about a certain toy" or whatever.

Lady -Carers cannot physically restrain a child, no matter what their behaviours and centres cannot legally 'expell' a child from their care, as a child is not deemed to be of an age of understanding. It is also considered discriminatory towards that child and the families needs. In Australia, we must follow the guidelines given by the NCAC (national childcare accreditation council) - previously we used timeout for behavioural management, this meant the offending child was removed from the area to a boring, no toys area still with in supervision, we are no longer allowed to use this practice as accreditation deems it to no longer be best practice - due to it isolating and making the child feel an outcast (how it makes the child they have hurt feel seems irrelevant). While I agree with this to a degree, I believe some behaviours are definitely serious enough to use this practice - but we can't.
It makes it VERY VERY difficult for everyone involved to know just how to deal with these very hard behaviours.

I would definitely be speaking to the carers about how they are making you feel by blaming your child all the time. It doesn't have to be directly, but if it comes up (or there is another incident) ask 'What are the other child's parents doing about it? What is the centre doing about their behaviour?' If they do keep blaming your child, ask if it would be OK for you to bite the carer - obviously not, so at what age does it become unacceptable (frankly it is never acceptable)? Ask to see their relevant policy, is there a head office you can speak with further if you don't feel like the director is addressing your concerns?

We had issues with an ongoing biter - it was in the under 2's room (so a bit different), but he was removed from the situation whenever he did it. There was also a lot of discussion with the parents and they changed his routine around which had quite an impact. Him and DD are now best of friends.

Ausgirl - I would be very interested to hear what NCAC deem to be best practice these days for this sort of behaviour??

Thanks for your imput everyone.

ausgirl, I'm certain that the parents handbook I was given said that if violent behaviour becomes a problem that isn't being resolved the child will have to be removed from the centre. To quote the handbook, it says "If a child is so undisciplined as that other children in the centre are placed in danger of injury or the staff need to devote an unreasonable amount of time to the offending child, we will call in Child Care Support Agencies with the parents consent. If this action is not successful the parents may be asked to remove their child from the centre." So by that I would imagine that they can remove a child if that child is a risk to others, which this hellion seems to be.

The more I think about this the angrier I feel about it actually, particularly the victim blaming. I think I'm going to take DD out of the centre. I've moved out of the area so its not local anymore and it's also the most expensive centre I've come across (as I discovered after I'd already enrolled her lol). My mother is taking DD to daycare tomorrow and is going to discuss this, I'd rather not do it because I just know I'm going to get upset. I'm furious that the cause of the incident was "DD started climbing over the younger child" (well gee, they're in the same age room). If it were me, I would've out under 'cause of incident' that "the children were being poorly supervised". I don't think the centre is well supervised at all actually, DD had an accident once because she was climbing on a toy shelf and it fell on top of her. WHY was this able to happen and WHY was the shelf not bolted into the wall?? But I digress.

The NCAC has a really good fact sheet on biting It should at the least, Neenee, give you some really good ideas to take into the Centre, to find out exactly what they are doing. Don't be concerned about getting upset - it's a horrible thing to have happen.
As far as bringing in support agencies goes, it has to be a really severe issue before anyone will do that. We looked into it when we had 50+ bites in a month in a Centre where I worked.
As for strategies to stop the biting, time out definitely isn't best practice. Why put a child into an understimulating environment, where they are just likely to get bored? (and frustrated, giving them more cause to bite?) It's far more important to draw their attention to the consequences of their actions - get the offending child to go and get the cold pack, and sit with the victim while they are being comforted and treated, drawing attention to the pain and discomfort that the biting causes. This way they are still being removed from play, but more likely to understand why.
If you're not happy with the Centre for other reasons, Neenee, then go for it and pull her out. Make sure you tell them that that's why too. Good luck!

Cally I am still discovering what NCAC have deemed as best practice - I actually rang and asked and the advisor said they recommend one carer sitting beside the child for quiet time, they are not to be removed from the group but the carer is to sit one on one with them until they calm down. My question is in the case of one child being injured by another, one carer is comforting the injured child, the other is supposed to sit with the offender, who cares for the remainder of the group? Also if the behaviour is attention getting, doesn't this get the carers one on one attention?
Neenee, as to the handbook, this would be a last resort situation in most centres and there is usually a procedure in place to follow before agencies are called in. I would think in your case, they should have started to follow this procedure a while ago.
Snuggly, not all biters are out of boredom, many are for no understandable reason - we do make sure the biter sees what they have done, comforts the child etc, this doesn't stop them - it really doesn't - or in my case it hasn't.

Neenee, as for the centre blaming your child, well, that's just wrong.

My eldest was the target of a biter and scratcher. He still has a scar on his face from a deep scratch 6 months ago but it is slowly fading. I made a complaint to the Group Leader as it seemed to be happening too frequently to my son.

I was very impressed with how they handled it. They routinely split the group into 2 (they had 4 carers in the room) and made sure my son was kept separated from the biter. If the biter went in DS's general direction, he was diverted to something else. The carers all kept a slightly better eye on the biter to ensure he was not able to physically hurt the other children. Also, they discussed the issue with his mother. There were other concerns as well about his developmental milestones so they recommended (gently!) that it might be a good idea for him to be assessed by a specialist to see if they could implement programs to assist in improving his development. His mother accepted this as she has an older child with an intellectual disability and had started to get concerned as well. After a while, he improved his behaviour greatly!!

I would recommend you talk to the Group Leader or Director of the centre. If you are still not happy, then definitely look at other centres.

As the parent of a biter, it's horrid. I used to cry when I'd walk in and see a *See Staff note next to my child's name. And if there was a similar message next to another child's name, I had a good idea who he'd bitten.

We tried so, so much. We ignored him and comforted the other person. We'd get him to help the other person. Time-out. No stars on his chart. Thing is, it's a really difficult concept, being good. You get rewarded if nothing happens.

What really frustrated me was not being told who he bit. That's when we learnt to look at the names of other kids for their incident report. We didn't have an incident report to fill in when he bit. We also actually had to ask, every day, did he bite anyone today? That's really weird, it's almost like they couldn't volunteer the bad behaviour to us. We started drawing a picture of a train next to his name - and if he bit or was naughty, it'd be erased and he'd not be allowed to play with trains that night. We learnt to say to him "you were a good boy today, look, your train is still there!" when it happened. Just telling him that he'd not be allowed to play with trains wasn't enough, there was no real consequence of his actions there.

We had weeks where we were collecting his friend from CC as well - I'd collect her, DH would collect DS. I'd sign the incident report where it said she was bitten, and they wouldn't tell me who bit her. DH would tell me he'd bitten someone, but not who. Go figure.

I was in tears as I heard other mothers comparing bites from my son on their children. A little girl changed CCC as a result of my son. That helped my depression, no end. And yet I'd never been told that he targetted that girl more than any other child. I asked the room coordinator to talk to the other mothers, as I thought that maybe play-dates would help. But they couldn't (wouldn't?) do that.

One thing that really helped was my son learning that "STOP IT, I DON'T LIKE IT" means just that. We had to learn to say that to him too - and he to us. So when the whole room was following that, with the "stop hand" sign, we had success. Ask your centre if they are teaching that to the kids.

And if you know the child who's biting her, reach out to her, try to come up with a solution together.

FWiW, I caught the train into town late last year, and chatted to one of the other mums most of the way in. She started the conversation with "You've had a rough year with his biting, haven't you". And we chatted about it. She comforted me. I couldn't stop apologising. But just to hear her acknowledge how difficult having a biting child is helps. And now her little boy & DS are the best of mates.
:comfort: I wish this wasn't happening to you. I know (from the other side of the fence) how helpless you feel. And hope it ends soon.

Kaz - thanks for sharing that, and Lady Z as well. I have been feeling a bit mean for the way that my post may have come across, it was written on a day when we were fresh from an "incident", so touched a bit of a defensive nerve.

I do think it's important to acknowledge that it's difficult for both sides - there would be very few parents who wouldn't wouldn't be worried (and feel a little helpless) if their child was known as "the biter/hitter" etc, just as much as those who are the "Bitees" And as toddlers, they're not the most rational of creatures, plus they move like lightening.

I guess it's just the challenge of finding the best way through all of it for everyone - whilst I don't want to see bad behaviour being tacitly allowed because carers are unable to actively intervene, I certainly don't want to see kids ostracised for their behaviours. I've found some of the stuff that Ausgirl posted eye-opening, and makes me wish that there was a bit more common sense in the world. Also makes me think of the old saying "those who can, do, those who can't teach", which is so so wrong when applied to teachers, but maybe could be changed to "those who can't, go into admin bureaucracy, masquerading as political correctness..."

Sorry I didn't respond earlier, I have shared custody of my laptop at the moment.

After speaking to the daycare, we've been informed that they do tell the parents when the child bites and when she bites, they make her hold the icepack on the bitee so she sees the consequences of her actions. I don't know that seperating her from DD1 would help since she doesn't appear to be too picky about who she bites. My mother spoke to the main carer about the victim-blaming and aparently she didn't really understand the problem? She's a good carer but I've found that she's very set in her ideas, like she was making lots of little comments about DD1 having a dummy when really if i'm happy for her to have it then it's no one elses business. But the manager of the centre was far more empathic I hear. If the problem continues then I'll have to go in myself though aparently this girl has bitten other children on the face. If that happens to DD1 I'll be removing her from the centre immediately and never mind their 2 weeks notice policy!

We had a problem with DS getting bitten at day care.

I turned up to pick him up and he was COVERED in bites one of which was around the eye area, his eye socket was very bruised. He had many bites on his hands and arms which to me seems like he was probably trying to push the biter away.

Needless to say I was less than happy so I asked his carer what had happened, she said DS was bitten on the face then the hands/arms. I also asked why wasn't I called, this got no reply.

I left because if I didn't I was going to start screaming, anyway I called the centre when I got home and asked for a meeting to discuss what had happened.

My husband and I went along and it was a complete turn around, "oh we didn't see it happen" well thats a lie because the carer told us she saw it. Mind you the carer didn't say a word the whole meeting, the manager did the talking for her.

Anyway we basically wanted to know how is it he was bitten SO many times and on the face like that, were they not being supervised? We of course got no answers.

My child was left with no answers, no reassurance it would be prevented in the future, bruised and with a very nasty eye infection.

Personally I'm sick of hearing how hard it must be for the other parents, how hard would it have been for my child if he had lost an eye? All children have the right to be in care that is SAFE, if a child is making that unsafe something should be done about it straight away not after 10, 20, 30 incidents!

Now before I get flamed...DS had a problem in kinder/pre school and as soon as we heard about it we did things to change it, we changed what he ate, his sleeping, I talked to him every morning before school about what was the right way to treat his friends at school, etc. And you know what? We saw a MASSIVE improvement and turn around within a week!

There is a huge problem within Aus will bullying and physical violence in schools and it seems to me it starts early on when they are in day care because nothing is done about it. (not always the case, but I have seen it a lot, way too much)

If i was you I would be pulling my kid out if it happens again, it may be a pain but I wouldn't be waiting around for something more serious to happen.

toomanyshoes, it's always worthwhile to see the viewpoint of others.

At DS's nursery, we're told who has bitten whom. And as parents, we all feel VERY bad if our child has attacked someone else and apologise to the child and the mother. Nursery deals with it quickly and yes, when they told me then we sorted it out within a week: that's how it should be. BUT that doesn't mean that we should reserve sympathy only for bitten children. Parents of biters who actually care about their children feel pretty bad and work to overturn the problem. We shouldn't attack them too.

If the parent or the centre tries to blame the victim, then that is very wrong and needs to be dealt with. But a toddler acting out issues needs help, not denigration. And certainly not validation that their behaviour is going unchallenged. These children need more boundaries, not fewer.

All children have a right to be safe. That is why carers need to be watching what happens and intervening at the appropriate time - after the first attack or, ideally, before. NOT after 30 bites, not after the child has attacked three children... right away. If that isn't happening there is a dereliction of care.

If my child had been attacked as yours was, I'd be getting answers or reporting the care centre to the relevent body. Because letting children do that is very wrong, either through poor supervision or lack of action.

toomanyshoes, that's just horrendous. If I'd found DD in that state at daycare I think I would've started biting the carers! I'd report them for sure as LadyZadee suggested.

I don't see how any centre can explain 30 bites - more than a couple of bites is just horrendous supervision in my opinion.

Lady Zaidie I never said we should only be feeling sorry for the bitten children...

But i honestly believe if a child is being bitten again and again and again (which is what the OP was talking about...) then more than "there, there, it will be ok" needs to be done.

at the end of the day, you care about your child and did something about it but there are plenty of parents who couldn't care less and they tend to be the repeat offenders. If the parents are working with the centre to fix it great! but if the parents don't, the child should be removed from care for the safety of the other kids.. If the child has a history of the behaviour and no one is working on a solution then why does everyone else have to wait around and 'see what happens'?

I just wanted to share my experience on this topic. My DD was in a child care centre where there was a child who was a repeat offender at bitting. He didnt' bite my child that often but she witnessed it. He would also hit, throw things etc. She would often come home and tell me that he had bit, hit, etc one of the children. I also noted a general level of aggression with some of the other children at the centre. After 6 months of my child being in care and not settling in care I pulled her out and put her in a new centre.

She is a different girl now. The improvement was dramatic and only took a couple of weeks. On any occasions where other kids were around she used to cling to me. Now she has faith that other kids can be fun and nice and will happily go off and sit with the kids at library or at playgroup. She wants to go to child care and says they are nice kids.

Do what is best for your child. Bullying had a huge impact on my daughter and the best thing I did was take her to a new centre with a much stricter policy on aggression. IMO 2 year olds do not need to be subjected to bullying.

Toomanyshoes, you should definatly report the centre. At the very least they should have contacted you as soon as the event had happend. I can't imagine how distressing that must have been for you to pick up your child and find them in that state.

So now the biter has started scratching, DD1 has a big red (was bleeding) scratch under her nose. I'm fed the hell up with this!! I'm moving her immediately. I'm going to put in my written notice how there is a huge supervision problem, at the cook is a racist (she referred to one child as "bog irish").

Oh wow, that's so not on. *hugs* Neenee! Is it a council centre? put that in the council or state or governing body mailbox too ...

Kazbah, I think it's a private one.
This isn't the first incident that's happened since I made this thread, but I just got so sick of it I decided to move her. So I called and explained politely that I would be terminating her care as of two weeks (that's the notice I'm required to give) and he argued with me!! Can you believe it!!

him: No one was bitten today!
me: No, she was scratched, but I don't care. Aurelia [my dd1] told me it was the same child who always bites and I don't care how she's injured, I don't want her to be injured at all.
him: this child doesn't have any problems with other children.
me: Yes she does! We've SEEN her bite other children, TWICE just recently!
him: Well we're working with the parents about this
me: well that's good but it doesn't make any difference to me, I'm concerned about MY child and I can't let her be hurt anymore.

Can you believe he tried to LIE to me to get me to keep her in the centre?!!! Then today he called me (he owns the centre with his wife and does maintenance etc. he's not a carer) today and offered to move Aurelia up into the next age group away from the biter. Too little too late! They didn't care enough about her welfare to do that in the first place until I moved her so I have zero confidence in them now. I wrote a long email about their victim-blaming, lack of supervision, and the inconsistencies of what they've told me. So her last day will be this wednesday.

Good for you NeeNee. Can you complain to someone higher up, someone who acredits nursery places?

I should!! I was recieving free daycare through centrelink, he told me that it was totally sorted out and he never applied for it WTF?! So how exactly was he recieving money for DD1 attending?! The whole move has turned into a huge antic. They're losing credibility by the day.

What is it that he says he's never applied for?

my free daycare entitlement. Because my family is experiencing hardship I was granted 13 weeks of paid daycare. He told us he had applied for an extention for another 13 weeks (through family assistance office) and that it was approved...

Well that sounds like a load of bull - special CCB - which is what you would be receiving, can only be approved by the centre once, after that, there has to be very special circumstances to get more, and the centre cannot apply it themselves, you have to go through centrelink and a load of paperwork for anythng above the 13 weeks.

Exactly, and he told us that he had done that and it was approved! Now he's saying he never even applied for it, so who's been paying for my daughters daycare for the past month!? It makes no sense.