Anyone done a Tweedle day stay??

Hi,

Been meaning the post my sleeping drama's here for a long time, and will hopefully get time to writing it all down tonight (i'm sure its going to be a long one), but quickly, Our problem isn't settling, i can normally get him down no worries, but he wakes up on que every time after 40 mins, and i can't get him back down even though he is still tired, he is very awake cos its the end of a sleep cycle...


Anyway, my MCHN recommended I call Tweedle to talk to them about sleep problems, and today i got my call back from them (after 3 weeks waiting!), and instead of really addressing my problems, told me to come in for a day stay instead...

Anyway, i tried asking her lots of qns, but she seemed like a bit of an idiot, and instead was telling my not to use a hammock (which is the only place i can get him to sleep properally) as it doesn;t train him how to go to sleep on his own, and to start not wrapping him (if we don't wrap him we might as well not bother trying to put him down as he wakes himself up after 2 mins)....

If this is the kinda advice they give, i'm not sure if its worth going or not?? And if they do controlled crying (or torturing!) then i'm seriously walking out in the middle!

Just wondering if anyone has been, and was it any use??

Thanks!
Yael

Hi Yael,

Milo and I have been to a tweddle day stay, a couple of weeks ago.

It was good, and bad.

Good in recognising tired signs, and telling me to try to put him back to sleep when he wakes at 40 mins, bad in most other ways.

It was really hard having to pat him to sleep and watch (and listen to) him scream, I was in tears most of the day, and eventually I picked him up cos he was obviously very distressed, and was told I was doing th wrong thing.

They also said not to use his hammock, which we do sometimes, but he's getting too long for it anyway.

In saying this, his sleeping has improved 100% since we went, aminly as I'm recognising his sleep signs better, and getting him down to bed earlier (the trick for us here was bathing him earlier, and doing bath, feed, bed instead of feed bath bed)

I do the shush-patting that the showed me, but only for 3 lots of 5 minutes if he's really crying, after that I pick him up and give him a cuddle/massage or put him in a sling.

After a while of the shush/pat, I can tell whether he's going to go to sleep or not, so know whether to persist with it.

i am actually booked in for next friday and must say that i am abit nervous but i dont feel i have too many other choices and i really do need to address this as it is causing us real probs at home,she wakes every 2 hours or hourly throughout the night.
i took my first son when he was 2 and it was awful but they have assured me that they will not be doing alot of cc at this age as they did with my son,i will let you know how it goes
nikki

Im having real probs with Jays sleeping lately but I dont know where to find this type of contact info, Any chance someone could pm me the number to call?

Whats the process of being able to attend?

Moving this to General Baby & Toddler, might get more replies there...

Tallon's a bit like this sometimes. Wakes after about 30mins or so. I've just been picking him up and sitting straight down in the rocking chair with him up on my chest. Sometimes he goes straight back to sleep, othertimes I need to walk a bit with him. Once he's drifted off I give him a few minutes there to make sure he's asleep.. then he goes back down, and will usually finish his sleep until the next feed.

I was worried it was going to become a habit with him crying and wanting me all the time, but he seems to have gotten out of it for most of his sleeps, so now if he does keep waking, I just pick him up and comfort him. I'm not so scared of it ruining good sleeping habits now :)

Some people like them Yael, some don't as Tweedle seem to promote controlled crying which IMO is the worst thing you can do for a bubs.

I know that they are other gentle sleep schools out there. Babies and sleep just don't seem to go together especially in the first year. There is a misconception about babies sleeping all the night and during the day. Soo many things happen to babies in those first 12 months, I can realise why they don't sleep/settle very well!

Yael - personally I think a hammock is a wonderful idea. The hospital I had my bubs in actually had them for hire or sale! Not everyone doesn't like them. If your baby is happy wrapped then keep them wrapped. A mum from MG stopped wrapping her baby at 14 months old - as he had enough!

I know all this is confusing and heart breaking.. but learning to know your babies sleep signals, having a nap and night time ritual will get you through. That and coffee - you will have sleepless nights regardless of how 'good' your baby sleeps.

Also be aware that according to a study, around 50% of mums tried controlled crying and only 5% or something found it effective... and this was only after a short space in time. So it may not work. Not sure of the exact figures but it was around these numbers.

I have been to a sleep centre twice. Now as I would like to acknowledge that there are gentle sleep schools around in Australia, the majority aren't. I'll give a run down of what happened for us. We went for a 4 night stay. The first time was when Matilda was 12 weeks old, we were co-sleeping at that time and she was waking every 2 hours for feeds during the night, and did not sleep during the day. I was an emotional mess due to birth trauma and Matilda had reflux as well which was very painful for both her & us. Our GP worked on the reflux from the time she was 6 weeks old and recommended we go to the sleep centre to help "train" Matilda to sleep better. I was looking for anything that could help us.

The first thing they did was put her in a cot & tell us to walk away. She went hysterical, and promptly vomitted everywhere. They told us to removed the sheets around her, leaving her in the cot & remake the bed without looking at her. I said "no". If I were to have vomitted in bed, I would want a cuddle and someone to nurture me, I would not want to be ignored & pushed aside while someone cleans around me. I then said I would go home... I didn't agree with what they wanted and I didn't want to stay for a week of CC. They then adjusted what they do to fit with me & what I was willing to do.

I also decided at that point that I would go ahead with the program and hey if I disagreed with it, at least we would have a go and when we got home we could always modify it more to suit us.

So we did a modified version of CC. I hated it, because it still meant Matilda screamed & was upset... even when I was in the room with her. BUT one thing I did learn there, was Matilda would not go to sleep if I was with her.... her independant streak came out. She settled 50% quicker if I was away from her. It didn't mean she had to scream & do it all herself. I could hold her and rock her and get her into a sleepy place and then gently put her down and walk out. IF she got upset I would go back. That was the deal. If she stirred I stayed outside.

It wasn't what I wanted but I learned more about Matilda there. BUT the majority of the mums around me were stuck with CC because they didn't know how to say what they wanted & went along with what the nurses recommended. I learned from Kelly who told me to stick up for us when we walked in and that made our stay more beneficial for us all. HTH!

I have no experience of sleep-schools at all, but Yael, I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth re the wrapping & particularly the hammock.

As most members will know I am a HUGE fan of the hammock and I honestly believe that they DO really really help babies learn how to self settle and sleep by themselves in a peaceful way.

Charlie is, by nature, a great sleeper, so I won't use him as an example, but Olivia was a shocker, and the hammock, once she was big enough (4 months) to get that she could bounce herself to sleep, was the tool that "broke" the 40 minute nap habit for her.............(huge sigh of relief in our household, let me tell you!!)

My personal opinion is that from birth to 4 months, most babies have no idea how to sleep, regardless of bed (cot, bassinett, hammock) so it makes no odds and most babies need cuddles and patting and rocking.

But once babies adjust to the world, a hammock can be a wonderful gentle tool in helping babies learn how to sleep by themselves.

JMO, but I would honestly stick with the hammock...........

oh I meant to say that too Lucy! I'm buying a hammock for our next child as we thing it is a fantastic gentle way to help babies sleep.

Oooh Christy I am glad to hear that....hopefully it'll mean you have some blissfully easy sleep patterns with your #2! Our hammock is still going strong, although we plan on moving Charlie out of it into a cot sometime this week (he is getting too big and wriggly for it!) but it will get laundered and packed away all ready for #3 in October............

Hi Yael,

I am really suprised that they said to stop wrapping!! I was told to wrap as long as they need it and Kaitlyn has only been unwrapped for about 2weeks. I think wrapping is very helpful as a settling technique if they like it.

As for the sleep times , Kailtyn only slept for 45mins during the day for the first 5 months or so . Karitane tried to talk me through getting her to sleep for longer stints but she just wouldnt and I think that is just who she is. She started sleeping for 2 x 2hour sleeps a day at about 5months and she got to this on her own. Now she is kinda doing 1 x 45min and 1 x 1hour a day . I think as long as bubs is happy and is sleeping differently at night so you can rest you should not worry to much. Sometimes all the "routines" can really stress you out...I have worked out Kaitlyn is really not text book baby...I wonder how many are :-k

Cass

I have recently returned from a week at Tresillian (i guess it's NSW's equilivant). They recommended wrapping which works really well for Chloe.

They also use CC but you must listen to the 'quality' of the cry and use this as more as a guide for when you go in and settle. Now I know here cries and know when she is just annoyed, bored, really upset etc.

Chloe was only having very short 20 or 40 min catnaps during the day and therefore was not going down well at night - even though she did sleep well at night. Now she is having nearly 2 x 2 hour sleeps during the day. Goes down well between 6 and 7 pm and sleeps to 9 - 9.30am with 2 bottles in between (and goes straight back to sleep after them). We have an unsettled time here and there during the day on some days but they can't be perfect all the time!

I really can't recommend them enough - plus they seem to be happy to adapt a little to you and your concerns but I was happy for them to tell me what to do!

okay guys we did our day stay today and you can read it on page 7 in the babies born oct 2005 forum,hope it will shed some light on the topic for you
nikki

Hey guys,


Thanks for all the reply's! Now i'm really worried about going! We are really against cc, and although i don't think i will have a problem standing up for us, i'm worried then with us just fighting with them about their techniques, we might not get so much out of being there? Wondering if i should cancel instead?


At first i just though i would go there and take away whatever i felt was useful and worked for us, and ignore the stuff we didn't agree with...


We are really happy with the hammock, he seems to find it comforting, although i do see their point in a way about it not teaching him to sleep so much as he gets used to the rocking motion. But on the other hand he does sleep other places (occasionally i co-sleep with him when DH isn't ere (he has sleep apnoea and i think he sleeps too deeply for it to be safe to have a baby in the bed)), and in his bassinette part from his stroller etc... So i'm not giving it up just cos they say so...


And we are happy wrapping him.. He still has the startle reflex, and really can't stay asleep so well without it (he can fall asleep but then wakes himself up)... My friend said they wrapped until like 8 months, and then taught the baby slowly by wrapping 1 arm out, then the other than kind thing?

And i would think its more helpful to fix the sleeping pattern, and then try and wean him off these things gradually anyway???

Can somebody please PM me with some places that are gentle sleep schools??? I would be so much more happy going there instead!

Rachel - are you glad you went anyway if Milo's sleep improved??

Nicole - I read about your experiences... Sounds exactly like cc to me! Do you know if they did the same thing for the younger babies also? Has it helped you?

Christy - it sounds horrible... I get a bit frustrated with the not sleeping thing, but if they told me to do that, i would end up in tears putting my son through that.. I know he needs help sleeping, but i think he needs help through comfort not through us being cold towards him, IMO! Did you find them accomodating in modyifing the program to something you were comfortable with, or did u have to fight with them? I just have visions of fighting with them the way i had to with my first midwife during labour about not going on the oxytocin drip!

At the moment we are trying to get him sleepy, then putting him down and getting him to go to sleep, and coming back in and giving him a rock when he starts to get worked up (he kinda squeaks a lot), but before he actually starts crying, and then leaving again.. I figure it will take a while, but if i come in before he cries than that way its not horrible... But is that still modified cc?? What would gentle sleep techniques be instead??


Anyway, DA is playing atm, so i might try and describe our sleeping problems!


Ok, generally we don't have much trouble getting him down during the day, he goes down pretty easily, rock him until he is sleepy, put him in his hammock, and thn rock the hammock and he goes off to sleep (being wrapped with a dummy).. but every time on cue he will wake up after 40 mins, and be so very awake then, but i know he is still tired.. If i catch him early enough i might be able to get him back down after 20-30mins or rocking and patting, but other times i give up and get him up..

Problem is he has a little play for like 15 mins, but as he is still tired
he doesn't enjoy himself and starts getting all kvetchy, and then we end up going through the whole cycle again... And once it gets further on in the day it gets harder to get him down and get him to stay down, even for the 40 min thingy! By nighttime its just terrible, and we can easily be in there in and out for 2 hours... but once we have got him down, at least he stays down!

I'm getting more and more frazzaled as i have no time to myself and is hard just being in and out of there all day long, but i could handle it if at least he was happy this way, but i genuinely believe that this isn't good for him either... He never gets to have proper play times cos he is tired, and when he does sleep (on sunday he had a 3 hr sleep in the afternoon!!!!) he was so happy when he got up and got to have 1hr of happy play, rather than lots of 15mins on unhappy play!

Also, if i try and go out anywhere I have got no chance of getting him to sleep! he has always been such an alert baby, so if i want to go shopping he could easily stay up for like 5 hrs with one 20 min doze... I try covering his pram, but it doesn't help (so i might as well keep it open so he can see out and at least that way he doesn't scream), but by the end i'm holding him to stop him crying cos he's so tired, and pushing the pram 1 handed!

I hardly ever go out because of this, but eventually i need to get out also, and this always happens.... Or if i can get my mum to babysit he doesn't settle for her either, and i feel guilty getting someone to mind him when he acts like this...

This week i've tried getting him up earlier (he normally feeds between 6.30 - 8.30am) and normally wants to go straight back to sleep, but if i unwrap him and change him and try to get him up, he'll have like a 30 min play and the go back down, and then he seems to sleep a bit better during the morning (might have a 1hr to 1.5hr nap instead), but by around 2pm he is back to his usual thing!

I don't want to do cc, i want something more gentle, but i also know that this situation isn't good for him or me, and i want to change it (mainly for him though!!!!)

I'm worried that maybe i should cancel the daystay, but i don't know where else to turn to get some help!


I've already cried so many times tonight because i've had a rough day and for the last 2 nights he has been feeding every 3hrs (Normally goes at least 5.5hrs plus), but he must be having a growth spurt, and i'm so exhausted from lack of sleep!

I feel like a bad parent cos i can't help my son to sleep, and in my tired haze i wonder if leaving him to cry is really such a terrible thing, even though i know if i had more energy i wouldn't even consider it! Better than the other suggestions ppl give me about drugging him to "teach him to sleep" (WTF?? - who drugs a 3 month old baby!)... And i hate to way ppl look at me like i am a bad parent when i tell them we have sleeping issues and they act like they have perfect babies! GRRR....

Does anyone have any more suggestions?? I don't know what else to do!!??

Yael,

Just one thing off the top of my head that could possibly help......with breaking the 40 minute sleep cycle thing.........(you may be doing this already, so please feel free to ignore!)

Do you have any music playing for him? ie Peacebaby or similar? A CD that lasts more than 40 mins? Do you have a little CD player with a repeat function?

Peacebaby, for example, has the sleep assisting 60 beats per minute which is suggested really helps restful deep sleep, and the CD lasts for around 47 mins.....it may help break the 40 minute cycle, especially if you have it on repeat?

(It also has the benefit of keeping YOU calm, which always helps!)

Hi Lucy,

we have the CD "Sounds for Silence", which i put on repeat, but to be honest haven't noticed that its made any difference...

I don't mind trying another one, but if it just does the same thing it might just be a waste of money??

Thanks for the reply though :)

Yael

yeal,yes it has helped but let me point out that we also changed things to suit our needs and what we felt comfortable with,chantelle is doing so much better now,we have not taken her dummy away,that is how she settles and as far as im concerened that would be just to damn cruel,out of all that hppened i have learnt to change only 1 thing,we dont pick her up through the night and offer her a feed every time she wakes,we just pop her dummy back in and she goes straight back to sleep.the waking is getting less evrry night as she is now realising that she doesnt actually need to wake up for a feed cos there isnt one there.she is actually happier that way cos i am not yanking her out of bed every time she makes a noise instead i am just helping her get back to sleep.yes they did do cc on the ypounger babies,but far more modified.
nikki

We do have a sling, which he doesn't seem to mind that much, but isn't a huge fan either! But i find it really uncomfortable as i normally have a sore back at the best of times, and carrying around that extra weight doesn't help!

I normally only do it when i am desperate and have to get things done by a certain time and he is up and crying!

Even if i do put him in a sling, he won't sleep for so long with me moving around, and it wouldn't really teach him to sleep longer than 40 min anyway!

What brand sling do you have? maybe i just need to get a better one? We have an old baby bjorn which somebody gave us, but i find it hard to put on and take off...I think the newer ones are easier

Hi Yael,
Firstly, big hugs for you. It's so hard when your child won't sleep for sooo many reasons. I remember how Gabby's sleep used to consume my life and I was trying lots and lots of different things to get her to sleep better (and longer!).

I went to a Day Stay program here in Geelong when Gab was 8 weeks old (I think?? Something like that, anyway).

My main reason for calling them wasn't really for sleep issues. I really just wanted to see the lactation consultant about feeding but I thought, what the hey, may aswell get some pointers about settling too.

I walked out of there feeling more confused and frazzled than ever!! The LC had tried to tell me that Gabby had finished feeding after 5 minutes - when before she was feeding for up to an hour. She then tried some settling techniques on her when she wasn't even tired... we tried the whole patting her to sleep thing etc. and Gab wasn't having a bar of it. I now know why... she's never been one that has liked movement, rocking etc. to sleep... so patting her just stirred her up.

I really didn't get much out of the experience except to know how not to tackle sleeping issues! I decided to stop trying to find answers through "experts" and start listening to just a few people - my Mum and myself included. I started to really try and focus on what Gabby was trying to tell me through her mannerisms and tired signs. Sometimes I got it right, other times nothing would work... esp. when she got to that 4 month mark... urrgh! Nothing wanted to work then! It only lasted a couple of weeks tho.

I really think sometimes it just takes perseverance. For a while, Gabby slept out in the loungeroom in her bouncer during the day. She only ever slept in her cradle at night time. Over time, she got better and better with sleep - and we did have stages where she would only cat-nap during the day. It was frustrating and exhausting!

I have a hug-a-bub too which was wonderful. She liked sleeping in that when we were out and about (kept her nice and warm too).

I've always had either music or "white noise" (a fan) going in her room to drown out the sounds from us moving around in the loungeroom. We only have a really small house and our dog barks in the middle of the night sometimes. I play "Music for Dreaming" when she sleeps during the day and I have a fan going in her room (not blowing on her.. and not blowing hot air... just making a continual noise). Our bathroom is right next to her room too, so Neil having a shower in the morning used to wake her up.

I also think hammocks sound like a wonderful idea and it's silly of them to suggest that you don't put your bub in one! Gabby was wrapped until she was 10 months old! So... imo, there's nothing wrong with wrapping either!

When Gab started teething, she started wanting a dummy at night too... so I let her. She now has to have a dummy to sleep, but I don't mind. I'll worry about getting rid of it (or using it less) later on.

Every child is different - they have their own little personalities. Some sleep better than others but I really don't think there's any one magical cure (like cc seems to imply).
All you can do is use trial and error (which you are doing) and you will find what works for all of you in time.

I have a friend who went to 3 'sleep schools' until she got her son to sleep (and it didn't happen until he was 2). You may find that tweedles doesn't work for you or you may find bits that are useful and you can try at home. Be true to what you feel as Dovid's mum. You know him better then anyone. He will eventually get into a sleep pattern that is longer then 40 minutes - remember the 'outside' world is all new to him too and he may still be getting use to it. Is her refluxy? Does he feed well? (is he drinking enough at each feed or is he waking because he's hungry?) Is he waking because of wind? You are not a bad parent, he is feed, dry and loved. Sleep when he is sleeping (even if you only get 40 minutes for the whole day yourself). Lack of sleep for you magnifys everything. I know where you are coming from - although Mackenzie is now a dream sleeper - she's nearly 2 but she didn't sleep from 13 months up until 3 weeks ago. I cried because I was so tired but on the really bad days I would have an hours sleep when she slept during the day. If tweedles can't help you in the way you would like them to you may need to try somewhere else. You MCHN will be able to give you other options. Good luck

Ok,

So we did our daystay last Wednesday, and i've been meaning to get on and let you all know how it went, but have been really busy..

So we got there at 8.45am, and then we made up the cot for DA, then we all went and chatted in the main room (there was another baby same age - born the day after him in same hospital, and a 5 month and 6.5 month old).. Then they started talking to us about what our babies sleep patterns were, why we called, who's deicision it was etc, and what they do there..

As soon as the bought up MCC for the 6.5 month old, DH said my body language changed completely and i got really tense and he could tell how angry i was getting...

Anyway, then after that they said to go and try and settle the babies using the technique suggested (will describe it below), but by this time it was 10.30and DA was due for a feed in like 15 mins and was so overtired cos they made us keep him up during the talk... Anyway, i thought it was stupid to sepnd all this time settling him if he was going to feed so soon anyway (even though they said the point of the day was not how much sleep they got, but what we learnt.. but i thought that was a little cruel cos its mean to not let my baby sleep if he does need it)... Anyway, so he was really sleep during that feed, and she like told me/him off, which i thought was unfair, cos what else did she expect from him??? grrr..

So then she told us to get him up to play for 10 mins so he didn't associate feed with sleep..

And then we put him back down, using their technique..

Which was wrapping (which she said should stop after 4 months as it became a SIDS risk - i've never heard of that), using a dummy, which she said was debateable whether to use or not, but i figured i just wanted to get him to sleep and then i would worry about that in like a month or so... And basically making sure he was calm and leaving the room

If/when he started to grissle, she said to wait until it was a proper cry for 30 sec, cos quite often they just need to get it out of trheir system and then they will fall asleep without actually crying... I guess i have always gone in and pick them up straight away so that hopefully he wouldn't get to worked up and would go down easily, but i was suprised by listening to him that he did go to sleep after like 45 sec or grissling, and i just had to wait

But the times we he didn't and would actually cry, to go in, and they said not to make eye contact or talk, but just to place one hand on their chest and the other to pat them while shusshing, and then when they were calm to go out again, and to let them fall asleep by themselves...

If they couldn't stop crying and calm down after a certin period of time (they said when i couldn't handle it anymore, between 5 - 15 mins) then to pick him up and calm him down.. It only happened like once that he cried for that long and needed to be picked up (i think i made it to 4 mins), but most times he just needed to be patted, and then would go to sleep himself - I WAS REALLY IMPRESSED, cos i never really gave him that chance by picking him up all the time..

Anyway, it was very hard on me in the beginning, and i had a fight with the nurse person the first time we left the room after he had his first cry, saying i didn't believe in MCC etc... she denied that what they did there, but still... also, i guess she read my body language and was really snappy and reactive even before i said anything (which i didn't think was so professional cos surely she should be used to dealing with stressed parents and should have been nice and calm about it - her snapping just made me even worse!)

I stood my ground and said i would pick him up when i felt like me patting/shooshing him wasn't calming him, depending on his cries, not the time.. And i also didn't agree with no eye contact/talking... She said it was like DH trying to sleep and me talking to him and waking him back up, but i think that analogy was stupid cos he was crying loudly, so quite frankly he was already hyped up!

Anyway, when i did it our way (more so when we went home that night), he settled a lot quicker that when we were there - so i feel like it just prooved my point that i did know what he needed to calm down...

Anyway, i tired to difuse the situation with the nurse by trying to make my questions more asking so she wouldn't take them as accusing, so it got a little better... But i did ask when they were going on about how great they were what their success rates actually were (they reckon 98% for people who folllow the program properally, but i think that's a little high myself)..

Anyway, it was interesting, and he has been going down so well now that his sleeping is like 300% improved... But we still have issues resettling him (hopefully he is learning!, they said it takes a while. but i managed for the first time to actually get him to ressettle with their method yesterday), and because i feel like i am not doing MCC (at least i hope i'm not!) in anyway cos i am there for him and stay with him and reassure him until he is calm, but he just needs to know that its not the best to always pick him up! And also i learnt that sometimes he just needs to get a grizzle out, but its not always going to turn into crying! (i normally dont wait 30 sec anyway, i can tell at a certain point if his grizzling will patter out, or if its getting worse, and then i go in, regardless of the time)

One thing that annoyed me and i wish i said it (cos i mentioned ppl i know who wrapped babies until 10 months and they got really narky about it saying you can do what you like but ur putting ur babies at risk), i wanted to say well you guys are really into babies being in their own rooms, but you baby is like 4 times less likely to die from SIDS if they are in your room, so don't you guys just use this SIDS thing when it suits you? Why do i always think of all the good stuff like 30 mins later??

We still have him in the hammock as the cot is like 5mm to big to fit through the doorway, and i can't be bothered dismattling it so i can bring in from the study/his room into ours, but i do find it easier to settle him int he cot, and he is sleeping really well in there (had a 2 HOURS NAP SAT AFTERNOON IN HIS COT WITHOUT WAKING UP AT 40 MIN MARK!! YAH!!!), so maybe its the best thing for him??

Although i love the hammock and i want him to sleep in there, but i guess if they cot is easier then i might have to switch to that.. lets hope the next one can use it! Not sure if the hammock has some part to why he doesn't sleep so well during the day, or if everything is coincident? Gosh its confusing! I guess it's just trial and error!

And the Peacebaby cd is really excellent... I think it relaxes hm (and me, i love it!) and helps him to sleep.. I think the Sounds for Silence/White noise stuff is only good when they are a bit younger!

The nurse lady said in the morning talk not tor rely on that stuff as it became sleep aids, but i told her about the cd and him and i liking it, and she said then to use it then.. She said maybe trying not using it every time and then he wont get used to it as a sleep aid..

Anyway, i'll let you all know how it progresses... But is the way i'm settling him still gentle, or are there other things i can use without just picking him up, cos i dont' think its necessarily the best thing for him? as hard as that is for me to say (i guess i just feel me picking him up should be the only thing he needs, but funnily it seems to be the exact opposite)..

Thanks for all your advice/support!

Yael

wow. Sounds like you picked up a few tips there, and glad to here Dovid's starting to sleep better.

I must admit I pick up Tallon. But we learnt even back when he was a few days old that he had 20 sec grizzles in his sleep so we wait for it to become a 'real' cry first. He usually wakes at feed time so its not really a prob, but the last few nights he doesn't go much past an hour without waking, coz he has a cold. But I figure we all want cuddles when we're sick, so I just go with it. (Even Demazin didn't knock him out last night! LOL)

My opinion with whether what you are doing is still gentle or not would be - if he's settling and happy with what you're doing, then it's gentle! I think it's not gentle to let them get distressed. If he knows you're there and is content, then you're doing a great job :)

Hope it continues to work for you!

ETA: I feed Tallon to sleep all the time! I'd be in big trouble if I ever need a sleep school hehe. It works.. so I do it :)

Yael - sounds like you had a productive day-stay and it's great that you have been able to take from it the things that you want to incorporate into your daily routine and chuck out the bits that make you uncomfortable. I really think that's the way to go with any advice. He is your baby, YOU are his mother and you are the one that will be with him day in and day out.

I agree that I think what you are doing is gentle - for sure! Sometimes we can get into habits and stop listening to our baby - which may have been the case when you were picking him up too quickly. Grizzling is far different from full-on crying (which would occur with the rigid CC tequnique) when they need to be comforted. A little bit of inital grizzling won't hurt - it's probably just normal protesting as opposed to being really upset, iykwim?

As for wrapping... Gab was wrapped until 10 months (as you know) but she also didn't start rolling from back to front until then! So, as far as the SIDs risk goes, I knew Gab would be ok because she physically couldn't roll over (and, by that age, they are quite capable of turning their heads to the side to breathe.... but that's beside the point). It depends on the individual baby. I know for a fact that if I didn't keep wrapping, I would have major sleep issues with Gab. My POV was... if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Falling asleep while feeding is normal and natural and, like Shannon said, will not form "bad habits". It's not a bad habit to feel all warm and snuggly and secure in Mum's arms. Gabby did it for a while but grew out of it. Granted, she was bottle-fed at 6 months so it is a little different - but I'm pretty sure she would have grown out of it eventually.

As far as the dummy goes, if it works to get them to sleep, then what's the harm? I wouldn't stress about it. I personally think the dummy has been a God-send for me. Gabby loves it (perhaps a little too much), it's portable and conveinient. I understand if people don't want to use it from the beginning (each to their own) but I really don't think it's a big deal. After all, I've never seen a child at school with a dummy so they must go to heaven eventually! LOL

I don't like the no eye contact thing either. After all, our babies are little human beings!! Eye contact is one of the ways we communicate. I don't think that ignoring your child is a healthy thing to do... so good on you for listening to your instincts!

Urrgh @ the nurse telling you not to rely on the Peace Baby as a sleep aid. Honestly!! Are you allowed to do anything??? Sheesh! Gab has her music on during the day at home (and I have a copy of it at Mum's), but if she has to sleep somewhere else, she's fine! So it's a load of piffle that they come to rely on it. Gab doesn't have it at night. We recently went away for the night and she slept fine in the motel room with us - no music, no white noise etc. So I wouldn't stress too much about it. And, to be honest, most of his sleeps will be at home when you can play the music so I don't think it's a huge issue.

Just so glad to hear that you are going so well and that things are falling into place. That's wonderful!

Hi,
I just read through all your all posts and I am also scared to go to tweedle. I am booked in for July 23rd for my newborn Olivia who is now 10 weeks. I also have a toddler (2 years old) who I had problems with but never really bothered as I had the time to sit there and settle her.
Olivia can be really goo somedays and really badddddddddddddddddd other days. She goes of really well in the evening and may cry for alittle bit but not hysterically. But during the day she will cry until I pat her bottom. Which is fine except that she wakes up after a sleep cycle and its sooooooooooooooo hard to get her beck to sleep. Sometimes I manage but other times I just give up.
I also really focus on getting her in bed when she's tired but I suppose babies get tired so quickly that I must miss it sometimes.
I totoally understand how you are feeling as I felt the same way. I cried so much the 1st 6-7 weeks and really thought that I was going to go crazy. I actually have't put Olivia in her own room yet as It's just been easier to have her in my room and after the 1st or 2nd feed depending on the time I just put her in bed with me and hubby has been sleeping downstairs. One of us needs some sleep............ But this is going to change soon and I'm abit scared as I don't have to physically get up to feed her so it doesn't seems so bad but once she's in her own room I think it may affect me alot more...............
My opinion is to go to the day stay and if you don't like it just leave. You may get something out of it and I suppose thats better than nothing.
The only way I can settle Olivia at the moment is with the patting tech or putting her in the baby bjorn. That has been my blessing. I actually get to cook.
The best advice I have had that has got me through is just do what you can cope with. For me it is sometimes easier to be out than stay at home as Olivia will sleep on in the baby bjorn and thats at least one sleep out of the way.......
Hope I have hekped in some way..... You are not alone........

Take any sleepschool as a guide only! They are great for learning tired signs and some settling techbut if you have a cranky baby who fights sleep chances are he will just have to grow out of it. i took my twin boys there when they where 7wko and had dramas with one of them till around 18months!