Night 353 and I'm about to expire....

This is going to be really disjointed...beware.

We've always have dramas getting DS to sleep and staying asleep.
We co-sleep as since he is awake anywhere up to 15 times a night I would go insane having to actually get up that many times. DH sleeps in the spare bed since he doesn't need that many wakeups and he's scared he'll squash DS. DS doesn't do that cot at all. He goes in and seems to be aware and either wakes instantly screaming like we're pulling his toenails out or lulls me into a false sense of security and sleeps for maybe 10mintues before his eyes spring open and he does the screaming thing. He just will not settle (and this is not through want of trying on my part) in it. I've tried resettling, playtime in it so it's associated with happy times, me being half in it...you name it. So we've just sold it.

He will sleep on our bed, so that's where he sleeps in the day as well.

He is still nursed/cuddled/fed to sleep. I've tried all the techniques we used with DD without success. Since he was born I've been really aware of just going with him and knowing he will get there eventually. I remeber how stressed I got with DD and then when I figured out to chill out so did she, but not DS. I know all kids are different, and that it's only an issue if it's one for me...but that's just it....it is becoming an issue.

DS is SO combative. When you're putting him to sleep, when he's feeding, even when he is asleep. He's always flailing his arms around, kicking, rolling and tossing. Many many times I've thought he's broken my nose and I have more bruises than I care to even count. It's like he just cannot keep still.

You know when you already find something annoying (for me it's fidgeting) and then it happens over and over and over.....and it's akin to water torture every time it happens.

He doesn't sleep for longer than an hour at a time. He does go straight back to sleep with some resettling, but not before he's crawled over me.

I've tried a matress on the floor but that's as bad as the cot....he has to be able to touch me at all times.

The other thing is that he's weaned himself back to one sleep most days - fair enough it's the right age, but then he's exhausted at 'bedtime' (6-7.30ish) and wants to go to sleep. If you don't let him go he just puts his head on your shoulder and sleeps anyway. However, he treats this like a nap! No amount of resettling gets him to go back to sleep after his 45minutes is up. Then he's awake until AT LEAST 10.30, but usually nearly midnight. And it's not a nice awake either. It's a needy, whining, whingy, crying walk around with me time. I have nursed and danced and rocked and swayed and sung etc for hours...all to no avail. He just will not go to sleep.

When He finally goes to sleep, I just want some time on my own so often don't crawl into bed unti after 1am...partly because of the time out factor, partly to do stuff I want to do and partly becasue I know he's only going to wake up in a short time so why bother?

DD then is an early riser (thank goodness she goes to bed at 7.30) and gets up at 6 so add in a million wakeups and I'm seriously getting by on about an hour's sleep. If he's not awake, he's rolling, kicking, tossing and belting into me.

It's causing issues between DH and I. We had a domestic at 4am this morning after i :redface: yelled at DS. Instead of pacing the floor to try and calm him, he took him to the spare room and put him on the bed and let him cry.....yeah I'm going to be able to chillout and calm down with that.... For those of who have read some of my past posts, DH and I don't share a true kinship on the whole parenting thing. We have totally opposing views but he's not home enough to make a difference and hasn't really had much to do with the kids until he went on LSL 4months ago - now he thinks he knows best :wall:
He thinks we should let DS CIO and when I am defiant he won't listen to reason and thinks all my reasons why are just made up (no he won't read anything to support the theory but that's a vent for another day).

He has shocking separation anxiety. He will not stay with anyone else. Not even DH. I thought he would grow out of it, but no. He has been like this since birth and DH reckons I have made him like that.

I am so desperately unhappy and dread the evenings. Sometimes I just want to put the screaming child down and walk away. I feel so bad for feeling bad thoughts towards him.

I don't really know what I wanted out of this post. Just a vent i guess. If you got this far you are a legend and I should be offering you a hug I think :lol:

eta: we have a very strong routine in the arfternoons too. He does know what comes next.

I'm so sorry I don't have any advice but wanted to give you a great big squishy :hug:

Thanks hun. Think that's what I need the most.

That sounds pretty full on hun.
I don't have any advice cause it sounds like you are doing everything you can. Is it worth you looking into Tresillian or similar??? I'm not sure the age thing but worth a try maybe??
Sending you lots of :hug: xx

DD1 was a horrid sleeper, I spend most of my evenings trying to get her to go to sleep. I worked out that she was intolerant to some food additives and maybe even some food types. Would have loved to have worked out exactly what, but DH was not supportive of us following Failsafe and it was one of those things that I did need his support on. The main one I did work out with her was annatto 160b, a natural food colouring.

Some of what you are describing sounds a fair bit like DD1, so that is why I am thinking that there is a food connection. Another thing to consider is maybe seeing an Osteo to see if anything is out of whack. With DD1 she suffered a lot of birth trauma and had trouble moving her neck properly, which caused many issues down the track.

Huge :hug: I remember what it was like to dread the evenings and not getting enough sleep just due to needing some me time. Hope it improves for you soon.

Oh Kim big hugs hun :hug: You sound really stressed out, you poor thing.

We have issues with sleep here too, though I am pretty sure my issues would be heaven to you, lol! Liam sleeps with me and Lily sleeps with DH. We haven't slept in the same bed for almost 2yrs. It is stressful. DH doesn't mind so much though. I mean he would love to be in the same bed, but he's of the thinking that it's only temporary. And it is, but it is taking longer than we would like for them to go to their own room!

I want to do things gently, but have no idea how to get DS out of my bed. Its all he's ever known. DH can't even get him to sleep at night. I can't be out at sleep time at night or he will not sleep. I have been out once at a meeting for work, and Liam stayed awake til 9.30pm. His bed time is usually 6.30. As soon as his booby was in his mouth and I was laying next to him he was out like a light. I don't know how to break this habbit. He is quite happy to sleep in the bed alone, even with DH putting him to sleep, during the day, but come night fall and it HAS to be me. He will wake 2-4 times between 6.30 and when I get to bed, usually at 11ish. Then he will wake usually 1-2 times or so. But the last few weeks he's teething and he's been up for 30mins-1 1/2hrs through the night some nights (can't wait for all his teeth to cut!) Though before the teething, we had been getting more sleep throughs after I go to bed, but I still wake because he sleeps literally on top of me, or kicks me or hits his head on the wall/bedframe and wakes me in a panic that he's fallen off the bed!

I have no advice for you hun, sorry, but you're not alone. I don't so much mind the cosleeping. Or even not sleeping with DH (well, not TOO much!) it's the sleeplessness that kills me. I'm just such a grumpy b itch these days. I hate being like this. More :hug::hug::hug: sorry it's making you feel so crappy.

big huge massive hugs....i cant imagine how hard it must be for you! Sounds like some good advice from Astrid, maybe that may show a solution for you guys!!!!! Hugs to you and all

Jenn, Tresillian gave me a panic attck with Darcy, and it's 600km away, but thanks for the thought, it is appreciated.

Astrid, I will look into that. We have been cutting out on preservatives and colours but I think i might try that bit harder. Will see if there is an osteo out here, but sadly that might have to wait until we get to Darwin.

Kell, thanks mate. I will have to tell DH he isn't alone. You have made me feel better.

Bec, thanks hun. Sadly i think I just needed some justification for feeling so bad.

:hug: Kim. Seriously I could have written that exact post. The sleeping and the separation anxiety/clingyness to mummy.

We have also given up on the cot and DS sleeps with us and still wakes up very often. Usually he just wants another nurse and cuddle and drifts back off to sleep, but nonetheless, it wakes me up! He can quite often wake up every 5-10 minutes for the first hour or two and then he may sleep for a decent hour or so block, but he will then start waking every 5-10 minutes again and the cycle continues. He isn't fully awake, but he is wimpering, tossing and turning and wanting to nurse which keeps me awake. The sleep deprivation I endure is definitly torturous so I understand what you're going through. This morning I yelled at him to shut up :redface: after hours of constant 5 minutely waking/wimpering/rolling around. It was 7am and he had been been doing this since DP left for work at 3am. I swear I got no decent sleep last night at all, only that really light sleep/half awake type sleep :wall: Needless to say, my outburst definitely woke him up so I had to get up and start the day...lol

Like you, I can't relax with him screaming so I continue doing what I'm doing. I just keep telling myself that he will grow out of it...and I really hope he does. He also does not want a bar of DP so it's only me (or bbs really) that can settle him. If I leave the room or walk away from him he starts wailing.

You can vent away all you like to me - we can vent together! I have no idea what to do but just keep hoping that it's going to change soon :(

With the waking after 45 mins at night, thinking it's just a nap, maybe he needs another nap in the afternoon?

Well he's crying so I better run...he has woken up umpteen times while trying to type all this :wall:

No advice Kim just a big hug from me too!!

:hug: hun, i was going to suggest much the same as Astrid and look into food issues and or osteo, thats what im looking into with DD2, though she isnt as bad, we also have shocking seperation anxiety and i swear in over the whinging alllllllllllll day, its driving me bonkers, so im not much help but also wanted to give you a hug

:hug: kim, i can't believe how tough you've been doing it & for how long as well.

my DS is similar in many ways & DP is sleeping in the spare bed so i can co-sleep with DS as well. the pragmatic part of me says the co-sleeping makes sense because it means i don't have to actually get out of bed, even if i am get woken up 6-10 times a night. but then i wonder whether he would actually sleep better in his cot & i wasn't so close? but i've been a bit chicken to find out cos i hate the thought of getting in & out of bed all night.

i think astrid's suggestions sound good - i've been thinking about seeing an osteo for a while now. and additives just seem to get nastier & nastier the more i read!

anyway, just wanted to let you have another person here who understands but who is also anti-CIO methods & wants very much to believe that things will improve on their own. vent away i say, you're very much justified in doing so!

:hug:

You're all a help to my fragile self tonight. Thankyou.

H....yes that's what keeps me going. It can't go on forever.

Olive, did you start the failsafe diet? I did look into that, but that is a seriously restrictive (and not particularly nurticious) diet.

i did look into it but sort of didnt make it past that!! i did change to nuttalex and sometimes get A2 milk but that was it, im going to take DD2 to a nautropath near me that checks for allergies to milk/soy/wheat

:hug: More enormous hugs from me darling. :hug: :hug: :hug:

Kim, sorry you are having such a difficult time with Nate hun xx What is it with these terrible boys?

My first thought while I read your OP was food intolerances. Taking him to the Chiro or Osteo surely cant hurt either.

As for you and DH not being on the same page when it comes to parenting, I am in the same boat with DH too, sucks big time. We are atm trying to get DS to sleep in his own room but he is coming into our bed several times a night anyway, persistent little beggar! If it were just up to me I would have done the whole gentle/attatched parenting thing the whole way since birth, but its hard when you know your DH doesnt agree with it and is quite miserable sharing your bed with anyone but you. Its a bit like having 2 kids that each want you to themselves really?!!

I hope you are feeling a little less stressed about it all tonight xxxx

Thankyou my friend Rach.

Woops snap Elissa. Yes that's exactly what it's like.

Massive hugs! Sleep deprivation is nasty! And cosleeping can be a pain when they're unsettled. I have said some mean things to dd and dh in that half awake half asleep state, when dd is clawing at my top and pinching my face. Urgh. I woke up this morning because dd head butted me and it left a lump!
You are an amazing mummy and when your ds is a grown man, you will know this tough time was worth it, and your love and committment will shine through in him.

It sounds like some more regular breaks would help you. Can you try and get a regular afternoon off, perhaps look at occasional care? A nurtured, well rested mummy is more equipped to deal with a needy bub.

Hugs to you!!

Amen Anna, that's so true.

Oh hun :hug: :hug: HUGE HUGS...... the first part of your post I can definitely relate with!!! DD is a shocking sleeper too at night (her day sleeps are pretty good these days but never used to be!).....

DD also HATES her cot and rarely sleeps in it. Day and night she is in our bed... we put pillows all around the bed and on the floor incase she decides to crawl/roll off the bed.... but we don't have the choice not to leave her there because she hates her cot too. (I always worry she'll fall out of bed but i guess thats a risk we have to take to get her some sleep!)
'Sometimes' she will have a day sleep in the cot, but rarely. It's a miracle when she does!!
DD wakes every 2hrs on average every night and we haven't had more than 3hrs sleep in a row in probably 4mths so I know exactly how you feel......
If she wakes during the night she needs boob to get her back to sleep and screams at me if I don't give it to her.... I try water but she just wants boob. Comfort sucking mainly.
Not actually drinking milk. I am looking at starting her on night weaning soon as I've had enough of no sleep at night time.
DD is generally an unsettled bub too and teething makes her even more extreme!

I know how you feel when you say you don't like evenings because you know you aren't going to get much sleep and it's going to be a struggle to get your DS to sleep... that's how I feel sometimes. It is hard when you put in the effort and they don't want to sleep time after time after time :hug: when you hear of other people's babies just drifting off to sleep every night and for up to 10hrs or so... doesn't seem fair on us does it??
My DD is asleep at the moment in bed with DH and I should go in too but I know that when i go into bed and start falling asleep she will no doubt wake me so I find it hard going to sleep these days.... I bet you feel that way too??

I find with our bedtime routine, after dinner, bath, boob, books.... I turn off the lights and lie down on our bed with DD in darkness, quietness, no talking and I have to wait til she stops rolling/crawling/kicking/talking/moving etc..... and after about 20-30mins sometimes less she will go to sleep. But then she might wake again few mins later so i'm back in again settling her and sometimes have to go back in again a few times like tonight we did. Other nights she isn't too bad. I'm guessing you've tried lying down to get him to sleep.....

My DD has always been quite clingy too and has had separation anxiety BADLY since 8mths when her sleep went down hill.... she won't settle easily for DH either. She'll scream and scream until I hold her even though i'm right next to her. It's alot of pressure on us Mum's isn't it?

Just letting you know you aren't alone. It must be hard for you though having 2 kids to look after and your DH isn't on the same page as you in terms of parenting styles. That must be very hard. Hoping things turn around for you soon hun..........hang in there.

I've always found with this parenting thing... when i feel like I'm right on the edge like I can't take any more of the sleepless nights etc.... things turn around a bit and I find new ways of coping.... hoping you can do this too my friend.

xoxoxo

Ren you're right about the edge and turning a corner....here's hoping eh?
Tha'ts exactly the way I feel at bedtime (now is a good example).

Funny DS seems to know where the edge of the bed is. He doesn't roll off no matter how precarious he gets lol.
I have tried laying down but for some reason he takes that as a cue to play....even though the only time he's in bed is to be asleep.

Thankyou my love. I hope your DD figures it out soon too.

:

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Ren you're right about the edge and turning a corner....here's hoping eh?
Tha'ts exactly the way I feel at bedtime (now is a good example).

Funny DS seems to know where the edge of the bed is. He doesn't roll off no matter how precarious he gets lol.
I have tried laying down but for some reason he takes that as a cue to play....even though the only time he's in bed is to be asleep.

Thankyou my love. I hope your DD figures it out soon too.

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Have you been consistent every night with the lying down thing? I started doing this when DD turned 11mths as the feeding to sleep thing wasn't happening anymore (for that bedtime period anyway)..... it was either lie down with her until she fell asleep OR leave her to scream cos' I refuse to walk halls rocking or patting as she is too heavy now and she just arches her back and screams anyway and fights me. (she's a fighter too - very strong willed!!). Sooooo every night and most of her day sleeps to, I spend time lying with her.... this seems to work for alot of babies this age I believe.
If she wants to muck around and blow raspberries on my tummy (which is pretty cute) but its sleep time, i let her know after 20mins if she hasnt' calmed down i say "it's time to sleep now im going to leave the room so you can sleep. good night" and she might crack up.... sit up and sit there crying on the edge of the bed (she seems to know its the edge of the bed too and wont move forward either) i leave her for say 1-2mins then i go back in, lie her down, and i dont lie back down with her... instead, i kneel on the floor next to her and put my head on a pillow thats next to her (the pillow is positioned between her and the edge of bed) and close my eyes next to her head and she sees me sleeping (just like when we are asleep together co sleeping) and then she realises 'oh ok mummy is serious' and quite often this seems to work and soon enough she will drift off and i walk out once she is asleep..... lately i've started leaving the room sooner and not going in as much when she calls out and she seems to be getting it.... over the course of a few weeks. its gentle parenting and she is not left to scream or cry it out.
and she knows im there for her.
Try that maybe? I hope it makes sense.

:hug: :hug: :hug: I know the stress and emotional strain of a baby that won't sleep night after night after night, but I really feel for what you are going through. You deserve an award for managing that for nearly an entire year!!! I felt I deserved saint status after 4 months. You are amazing!!!

I have been eliminating food by food from Charlie's diet and I came to the conclusion it was a preservative in BREAD that was the issue....... Don't keep anything but Brumbry's bread in the house now and she's chilled.

Huge hugs to the sleep dep hun... it's like being drunk without the buzz hey?

In many ways, I can totally relate.

Phoebe is an Awesome sleeper at night - unless I am silly enough to do something incredibly inconsiderate like get out of bed. Mummy and the boobie mooks are the only two things in this world that she will go to sleep with. She'll sleep on my chest for hours but only a few minutes if I walk away. When she falls asleep on me, if i try to put her down she wakes up the second her back touches the bed and starts crying. Even my tried and true trick of putting one of my mummy smelling clothes next to or near her doesn't work. She knows the difference.

Basically - I have no answers, but I can feel your pain. :hug:

Seems to be a common thread around here these days though. Think the babies know something we dont? LOL

big :hug: :hug: :hug: Kim, DD wasn't as bad but she went through the worst period between 10-13 months. I was a complete zombie. I think that it's actually a really bad time for sleep, there is so much development and so many milestones going on, and of course by then people think bubba should have been sleeping through from 8 weeks so they are totally unsympathetic :wall:
So no advice from me (the other girls have offered plenty of that) just some hugs and a reminder that it will pass!

Kim, I just wanted to offer you lots of hugs. You sound like you need a whole lot of them, plus a break too :hug: sounds like you've had a really tough first year with your little man.

I don't really have any practical suggestions, it sounds like you've probably tried anything & everything. And I'm sorry to hear that your DH isn't on the same page as you. It makes it even tougher.

You know we're all here for you x

Hi Kim,

Sorry to hear your having a hard time hun! :hug: :hug: :hug:

Neither of my girls sleep through yet. Sometime we have a good night where they will sleep through but most of the time at least 1 of them wakes up. Briley is the worst. She is notorious for chucking tantrums for no apparent reason in the middle of the night. Its very frustrating.

Have you thought about taking the little guy to the Chiro?

I have heard stories of babies becoming a different person after visiting the chiro.

I have often thought of doing this myself but never have. With Briley's tanties at an all time high I might have to take some of my own advice!

I hope you find a solution soon hun. Sleep deprivation is a bad thing!

Sending loads of hugs your way hun!
x

Failsafe is quite nutritious, so don't be scared off about that. I have come across many mum's who have found improvement from it. Even just cutting out dairy and soy has been enough for them to have significant improvement in their child. Also they often feel much better in themselves for it.

From my experience I found that no matter how consistent you are if there is something else going on, it won't really work. I had one time with DD1 that we both got gastro, so really did not eat for quite few days. After that she was such a changed child, she was, for want of a better term, an angel child. She ate more, wanted boobie less, the sleep rituals finally worked! Then we started eating again and then bam, back to what she was. I am sure with her that she could tolerate most foods in small doses, but if she had too much of something, then she was hard to deal with.

Gee that fact that so many of you are suffering from 'acute lack of personal space' as well, makes me feel a bit normal.

Shanti, you are right. I actually used that technique with DD with great success. Thanks for making me remember. I guess in the despeeration my brain just isn't working properly.

Just me, thankyuo hun. This is actually my second one that's this bad. I'm up to nearly four years of it lol. Finally got #1 sleeping and #2 came along.

Astrid, how do you go about figuring out what is the prob? I was actually 'cleaning out' DD's diet (she is such a hyperhead), so I guess I really need to get serious about it for all of us.

If you follow Failsafe or the one that is from one of the Children's hospitals, it should tell you what to do. Basically you cut back to the safe foods for a certain amount of time, then you do challenges where a suspect food or food type is reintroduced and any changes noted. It is always a good idea to do anything like this in conjunction with a Dr, or at least have a chat to an understanding one before hand.

You can pick up the Sue Dengate books, or just go off her website. There is also another book out now to do with Colic and it looks at all the other reasons that a baby could be having problems with crying and sleeping rather than just blaming colic. I think Mother's Direct is now selling it. It maybe helpful as well.

Just remembered have you tried anything like Braurs Calm? I found it helpful on occasions and I know others have found it has helped a lot.

oh it sounds liek your having a tough time..

no advice sorry, but i couldnt read and not send hugs your way..

kim have been thinking, have you had him checked by a Dr?? we;ve had ongoing issues with ear infections and fluid behind the ear drums.

twice before christmas i was sure DD2 had an ear infection so took her to a bulk billing clinic (big big regret) the said no infection, i then took her to my normal dr a few weeks back, she had fluid behind both drums, i think she has had for sometime :( treatment was panadol and dimetapp for 1-2 weeks at night due to pain when laying down and to clear up the fluid, it cleared up and we are finally (as in the past few nights) seeing an improvemnt in sleep, it may be a coincidence but it well worth getting him checked over