independent play 2 & 3 year olds/ juggling toddler & baby - how do you do it?!

Hi everyone, I'm just wondering how everyone else manages limiting TV while juggling a baby & a toddler?

Our day goes like this:
Get up, nappy changes, breakfast, get dressed, etc
about 45 mins later I get baby back to sleep..
40 mins later baby wakes up.
Between 45 mins and 90 mins later I get baby back to sleep.
30-40 mins later baby wakes up.
Repeat x 6 or 7 times until it's time for bed (around 9pm).

My toddler (2 years 9 months) seems to need constant attention and/or stimulation. If he's not watching TV he wants me to play in his room, play outside, play play-doh, do puzzles, do art, read books, etc. He won't play alone or independently. The only things he will do independently is play the computer or play iPhone games (which I don't like and I limit because I don't want his face in electronic devices all day).

I usually allow him to watch sesame street or playschool in morning, and then a DVD or ABC kids in the afternoon around 2-3pm, as that's when he gets tired and grumpy. He refuses naps but may occasionally fall asleep in this 'quiet time'.

I have tried starting him on activities and them leaving him to it after 20 minutes, but he loses interest as soon as I'm not involved... then he starts nagging me to do something else with him or asking for the computer or tv. Sometimes if this co-incides with getting the baby to sleep I allow it because otherwise he will keep coming to find me and makes noise which wakes the baby up.

Other times, after we've had both time playing and time watching tv, I flat out refuse either more tv or continued entertainment from myself, and then he whinges and whinges at me and I end up cranky and annoyed! Occasionally he will eventually start playing by himself given no other options, but as I said, it needs to happen in the short window of baby being awake and preferrably in the morning as he's too tired & cranky in the afternoon.

In between getting the baby to sleep 6-8 times a day and the toddler wanting constant attention I feel like I just want to be able to sit down and do nothing for 10 minutes. Putting on the TV or the computer for the toddler seems to be the only way to get some quiet time - but he already does these things more than I would ideally like him to.

Any suggestions? Is this normal at his age? What are some good ways to encourage independent play? Does anyone have children this age who will go outside/in their room and play independently or is this an urban myth?

How does everyone else manage with a catnapping baby and a toddler?

In between all this I also feel like a big meanie telling him to play by himself, but I think he needs to learn the skill of self-amusement. Or is this just too much to expect at this age? Will it come with time?

I've tried looking up what's 'normal' at this age (regarding stimulation/company/independent activity) as I like my parenting to be guided by what is developmentally appropriate.. but I can't find much info on independent play for 2 -3 year olds. Anyone got any info? All I've found is forums with parents asking the same question (lol).

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read and reply.. It's a long one so :clap: if you got through it.

Oh my goodness!!! Although I don't have a baby in the mix (and I can't imagine how much harder that would be) I am going through many of the same things you are! My DD is just over 2 and a half and I would desperately love her to play on her own, even for a tiny bit. I have no advice to offer you, but will be waiting keenly to hear what else comes up in this thread and when to expect a little independent play!

Thanks for posting and hope you get some good answers and manage to get DS to entertain himself a little!

I have a similar situation to you, but I have a preschooler thrown in the mix.

I have found it helps to have my rocking chair right next to the play mat. I am about to go through all the toys and make boxes of "Noisy Toys" "Quiet Toys" and "Baby Toys" so that I can cycle the toys through the day fairly easily to suit what needs to happen. Nothing worse than JUST getting baby's eyes closed and someone either shouts or bangs something :wall:

I also try to have baby in a rocker or on her playmat for some of her awake time so I can play with the older 2, and I try to do some craft with them while she is asleep. As DD3 gets older it does seem to be getting easier because she entertains herself crawling around on the floor, but there are still times when she really needs me.

Your baby will get used to noise and fall asleep and stay asleep with it, but it does make it harder to focus on your toddler while baby learns to go to sleep.

Star - I hope you get a few answers too.

Alioops - thanks for your reply. Wow you've got a full plate, sounds like you're handling it well though! Sorting through the toys is a great idea, I'll try that one. The problem is toddler wont play with things by himself, he wants me there to play WITH him... I think I will try something like colouring while I stay in the room and rock bubs to sleep (I usually walk the hall/bedroom with him until she falls asleep).

I think the noise is part of the reason bubs is so unsettled and such a catnapper. She never gets a full sleep, wakes up grumpy and still tired, cries and whinges until she's tired enough to sleep again. Gets back to sleep, gets woken up, repeat. She's 5 months now though, I thought she might've gotten used to the noise by now. When did you find your bubs settled into sleeping despite the noise?

I usually have the tv or a radio on so I have found that helps her to sleep, because she is now so used to noise in general. do everything you can to avoid making it quiet when bubs is falling asleep and that should help with the sleep cycles. Catnappers wake at the light phase of the sleep cycle so if nothing has changed when they enter that light phase they find it easier to get back into a deep sleep. I can't remember when she started finding it easier, but if you spend a little while with constant background noise, like a radio it wont take long, maybe a week or 2?

just wanted to ask how old your baby is? the reason i ask is, my nearly 3 year old has gotten remarkably better at entertaining herself now that we have a new baby, he is 5 weeks old... in the beginning she was always asking me to do things for her, or play etc, but i was always feeding the baby, so she has sort of adjusted... she does watch more tv than i would like, but i am recovering physically from the birth and am meant to be on 4 hours bed rest a day (yeah right), so i am not beating myself up too much about the tv watching...

also with our new baby, initially i was spending time trying to get him to sleep, but now i have given up on that as i just don't have the luxury of spending time doing that, so i put him down in his vibrating chair/rocker with his dummy and he will sometimes drift off, sometimes i put him in the cot and leave him to it, and other times when nothing will work he goes in the baby swing, or in the pram... if he doesn't sleep he doesn't sleep, i provide the opportunity for him, but i just can't spend lots of time trying to get him to do it, if that makes sense...

also perhaps instead of your baby sleeping at home, you could go out for a walk to the park etc, and baby has the opportunity to sleep in the pram... i know that doesn't help much with you getting some quiet time.... perhaps build a cubby with a sheet and let him take toys in... sorry i'm pretty hopeless... i usually sit on the couch and ask her to do things, like set the train set up, or get a book for me to read while i feed..... another thing to do is take away half his toys and put them away for a few weeks, then slowly reintroduce them, and hopefully he has a renewed interest in them.... or put them away and get one out the next time you have to feed etc....

good luck xx

I'll try the background noise too, thanks Alioop :)

Anyone got ideas about encouraging independent play? Or is it too much to ask of a 2y9mo old?

crap i just read your baby is 5 months.... i sleep our baby in the loungeroom during the day so he is very used to noise, as our toddler is always yelling/screaming/singing etc.... with our first born who was very highly strung and would wake if we flushed the toilet at the other end of the house (no joke), i put music on in her room to try to drown out the other household noises....

Hi there

I got Julia involved in the process of changing nappies, grabbing things for the baby etc which is loved doing. Also made sure she had something to do while I was feeding Tara. Also having snacks available is a good idea, make sure you put them near the toddler beforehand and they have them while you are feeding the baby. Reading a book to the toddler at the same timeas feeding sometimes works. Mind you I did revert to the TV too. Also Alioops idea of noisy and quiet toys are great. I also had a box that just came out while I was feeding the baby, which had craft, quiet toys etc. I also assured Julia if she was good while mummy was feeding the baby when the baby went to bed, we would have special time together just us.

Its not easy! definately challenging!

Hi Emma, Congrats on your bubs. Whoever told you that you need 4 hours bedrest has obviously never been a SAHP of a baby and a toddler! My baby is 5 months old. I was the same as you early days re: tv but now he seems to have developed a preference for passive entertainment over any kind of independent play, hence the reason I'm concerned about changing things.

We do set up cubbies, but he won't play in it if I don't join him.. Likewise with his trainset... he's not interested if I'm not doing it with him.. It's the same with just about anything. Which I don't mind, of course, but I think he needs to be able to play by himself *sometimes*.

I did rotate some of his toys out a couple of weeks ago so I might have to reintroduce them and see if he's interested!

What other sorts of things does your 3 yo do to entertain herself? Was she good at independent play before bubs came along?

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crap i just read your baby is 5 months.... i sleep our baby in the loungeroom during the day so he is very used to noise, as our toddler is always yelling/screaming/singing etc.... with our first born who was very highly strung and would wake if we flushed the toilet at the other end of the house (no joke), i put music on in her room to try to drown out the other household noises....

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I used to do the same - sleep bubs in the loungeroom, and he wasn't too bad then. But now he's the same as your firstborn, in that he wakes at the slightest noise. We sleep him in our room now but any time he's sleeping, I can't flush the toilet (or go in or out of the front door, or use the kitchen, or turn on a tap, or risk getting toddler upset & argumentative, etc etc - the noise just travels right down the hallway and wakes him).. so the white noise might help with that. I've been thinking I need it for a while but haven't got my butt into gear to go out and buy a CD player (is it just me or is taking a baby & toddler to the shops a royal nightmare?) I'm going to start that tomorrow.. thanks for motivating me!

Good thread...I have a feeling I'll be dealing with the same kind of thing once my #2 comes along. My DS always wants me to be involved and doesn't really have the concept of indpendant play either....I'm hoping it comes along before May!!

I have a feeling I'll be at a lot of parks with bubs in a pram while DS plays!

My DD is 2.5 and my baby is 5 months so similar ages. DD is also really bad at independant play. Particulary if that idependant play means I am doing stuff with the baby.

My 5 month old only has 2-3 day sleeps (mostly only for 40 mins). Occasionally I get the odd 1.5 hour sleep out of him. Most mornings of the week I have something on with the toddler so baby sleeps in car or pram. If I am having a bad day he just goes into a sling and I wear him while he sleeps - DD doesn't really like that very much though and tends to get a bit cranky. Whenever the baby is sleeping I make a big thing of doing stuff with her and letting her now it is special time cause the baby is asleep. That way she is happier for me to spend the time putting him to sleep.

I don't do housework during the day and try to find games that I can involve both kids in. Reading books, playing outside, paddle pool, blocks, etc. I also involve her in everything to do with baby. So its her job to get the clean nappy, spew rag, toy. Somedays it works really well other days nothing is in sync and its a nightmare :)

Sorry not really any great tips there. I am sure it will get easier as the baby gets older and more interactive and able to play with the toddler. That way they can play together (fingers crossed).

My initial thoughts are to change your baby's routine to reduce the number of sleeps but to sleep for longer. My 6month old is a catnapper too and she would only sleep for 20 mins or so at a time. When she wasn't sleeping I was either feeding or occupying her as she's a bit of a velcro baby. Have you tried resettling when the baby wakes up after the first sleep cycle?

I have started being really strict with DD in enforcing a sleep routine. Its still a work in progress but already I'm noticing she is starting to get into a routine and also sleeping for longer. I am lucky that my 2 year old is at daycare 4 days a week so I have had the luxury of being able to focus on getting DD into a routine which has been time consuming.

I agree that as the baby gets older the two of them can start to occupy each other and you will be less in demand.

I know this wasn't what you asked but IMO getting #2 sorted will benefit #1 and you too.

I think it is an age thing too, but what you are describing, while frustrating does sound normal. :hug: hun. I remember how hard it was. It's like you have to prove you love them.

My DD wasn't great either at first and it has probably taken her the better part of 10months to get better.

She was 2 and 10months when DS was born and was a great help - but some kids just aren't into that.
What helped was me giving DD some time on her own away from the house and away from the baby.
Playing with other kids helped as well. Do you go to playgroup? Does he go to CC?
DD really looked forward to her daycare days. I found that she was more independent the day after CC...and then it went downhill until the next week.
DOes he choose what to do? Do you reward him when he does play on his own? Are his communication skills good enough for you to explain to him that you need some timeout?

Saffi - I think you are right in that if I could get the baby into a better routine then managing the toddler would be easier. But! How to do!? Got any tips? I've just tried the white noise today and she's currently having one of her longest sleeps in a very long time (70 mins so far!), so hopefully that will be the key. I have tried resettling after she wakes, but most of the time she wont resettle.

Kim - DS wanting interactive play isn't so much an attention thing - he'd happily play computer/iPhone or watch TV by himself for hours if I would let him. It's more that he doesn't want to play with ordinary toys and activities without someone playing alongside him. He's really quite good in terms of jealousy/understanding when I need to take care fo the baby. He understands what I mean when I say he needs to play alone and I need a rest, but he just doesn't *like* it.

We go to playgroup once a week, childcare once a week and grandparents once a week. Sometimes a playdate with friends/cousins thrown in too. He is good at interacting with other kids although he had a patch there where he didn't want to go to childcare because there's no computer there! So I stopped letting him use the computer shortly after that happened which remedied his disinclination and he's happy to go again.

oooh - copy. Hmmm he's a tough little nut isn't he?

Yup, I gots me a stubborn one! To answer your other Q's.. He does choose what activities he wants to do, but I probably don't praise him enough when he plays independently (because it rarely happens lol) so I'll have to remember to do that. Thanks.

Thanks everyone for your help & input. Any other ideas will be warmly welcomed. xx

I wish I had some ideas- my DS is 20 months, so a bit younger than yours, but he is not very good at independent play. I find that hard enough now, with just him- I can't imagine how you do it with a bubs as well.

I don't entirely know how to encourage independent play. A little while ago I found it particularly frustrating that I was unable to get a thing done as DS needed me to play with him all the time, so I did a bit of research and asked some questions on here. The answers I found were a bit frustrating- in general terms, it seems like some kids play well on their own, and others don't. And others start off not playing well on their own and then seem to learn that skill as a part of their development, but not by anything their parents did- it just happened. It seems to be largely a factor of personality.

I do try to do what I can, as its a skill that I do want DS to develop in whatever measure his personality allows, simply for his own development. When he is playing on his own, I let him go for it and encourage him when he comes back to me. My DS is also quite task oriented, so I can ask him to do or get things for me and he will go off and do it then come back to me- this is very small things at the moment due to his age, but I hope to extend this out as he gets older and praise him when he come back to me to 'show off'. I kind of hope this might empower him to do things on his own and give him a sense of accomplishment or achievement. Its a theory anyhow! Does anything like this work on your little man?

Best of luck...watching this thread with interest.

Skeeta - What is working for me is to be really observant of DD's tired signs and then getting her down either by feeding or rocking. I find rocking her she gets very worked up and she cries and after a while I can then pat her asleep. With resettling I can just tell that she wants more sleep as she is whingy and I can just rock/pat her back for another cycle.

Just thought I'd update... Have been doing a lot of the things suggested, and they seem to be working.

I have implemented white noise and keeping the baby up longer between naps (even if she's tired), and have been getting a few longer naps out of her as a result. She still is woken easily and is fussy and difficult when that happens but it's less often now that we're using white noise. So a win there. Thanks for that idea alioops.

I have also stopped walking her to sleep, which means I'm no longer spending hours a day pacing the hallway. I'll feed her to sleep or put her in her rocker and bounce her to sleep, but that's it. I have found that if she's not tired enough for either of those to work, she's not likey to sleep very long anyway. She's adjusted quite well and it has made her million naps a day a lot easier to cope with. Toddler copes better too because I'm not always off in another room trying to get the baby asleep.

I've also been getting out of the house more, which is great for us all. Baby sleeps in the pram, I get some fresh air, toddler gets out, plays with other kids, runs around, and (usually) gives me some window of peace and quiet in the afternoon.

I have been really strict with the phone/tv/dvds and computer, which provides toddler with much more opportunity to engage in imaginative play. He whinged and protested at first (still does sometimes), but after 5 mins of nothing to do, he'll go to his toy box and create his own entertainment. I have been playing with him more too, and praising him when he does play independently. Also just talking to him about how it's good to play on your own sometimes because you can play whatever you feel like, make up your own games, imagine whatever you want to, don't have to share, etc.

ETA: the other thing I've done is modelled imaginative play for him by acting out a scenario, giving him a role, and letting him see how fun it can be! After I did this a few times he started doing it a lot too.

Interestingly, he's started recognising his own signs of tiredness now that he's having less passive entertainment from electronic things (not that he'll nap for me though!!). I've also noticed that it's when he's tired that he reaches for the passive entertainment. So I'm working with that and plan a DVD or iPhone game time when he needs to have some quiet time or after we've been out for the day. He's quickly gotten used to the tighter limits and is coping fine. A few times I've even found myself thinking "where's he gone?" and go find him out in the backyard running around, or down in his room turning his bed into a "bus", or hosting a party with his teddies.

He still loves company and for us to join in his play (which of course we do), but no longer expects constant entertainment.

So! If you made it through that, well done. Thanks for your suggestions and ideas. I hope you all find similar success.

what used to be my saving grace (I had a NB and a 14 month old) was playgroups. Even now, Ashton is 18 months and when bubs arrives he will be 21 months. I do so many activities, even those days where you can't be bothered, go! Gets them out of the house and out of your hair, and there will be other mums to talk to.

Monday I have playgroup
Tuesday I have chat and munch which is like playgroup where we cook something healthy for lunch
Wednesday I have kindagym, then 'Reading Together' at the library, then we go to the park for lunch, then another playgroup at a school up the road.
Thursday I have rhythm and rhyme
Friday at present we do nothing, though the boys school is about to start a playgroup which we will go to.

Most of these activities only run for 2 hours each. Trust me though, those 2 hours out of the house make a big difference. You will also probably find he will learn to play on his own quickly.

Ashton has only just started playing on his own. Before he would need me or the boys to play with him, but the last couple of months he barely needs my attention and will happily lay on the floor playing with his cars or farm sets or whatever.

I believe our activities have a lot to do with that.

Remember it's just a stage and will be over soon :)

Also wanted to add a few things that we have at home that keep my toddler very entertained while i'm dealing with the baby- a sandpit full of sand toys, a trampoline and a bike in a safe bike riding area. we also have one of those tennis balls tied to a pole kinda things iykwim? that he loves playing with by himself.

My DD is 2.5 and is pretty good with independent play if I get her started with something. I have a 10 week old DS now so am realy encouraging as much of it as possible right now...! Our most popular "toys" at the moment are plasticine, and making pasta necklaces! She also loves play dough. She doesn't really do independent play with toys as such, but occasionally puts all her dolls to bed. Plasticine is great! Much easier to clean up that playdough so good for a quick 'feed time' activity. Our DD loves to make sausages and balls and things out of it. If I start her off and make a face, then she will make a face too... or I ask her to make me a flower, or whatever. I often sit there feeding DS with a ball of plasticine in my hands "warming it up" for her.. its quite therapeutic! Even if I get 10 minutes of happy silence out of her, that's great. The plasticine then gets put away on the top shelf til next time. Pasta necklaces are similar - I just tie some wool to a toothpick and give her a bowl of penne pasta to thread - she loves that, and its easy for me to help her with while BF. Yesterday she made a necklace for Daddy to wear to work!! lol.

Good luck with it, sounds like you are getting some improvement, so hope it continues!