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:hug: wow huge post!!
firstly i dont think that gentle parenting him has made him the child he is, id say it really is just who he is, what if you didnt gentle parent him? he'd still be the same and you'd probably question yourself more. it sounds like he really needs to see someone, someone who deals with kids and anxiety, they should be able to help you with way inwhich to deal with this, i think the sooner the better, does he have to start kindy next year?? can you ease him in to it??
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i agree, sounds like you may need to seek some outside help. Gp first off to get a referral elsewhere. at the very least a professional will be able to give you some ideas on how to handle specific situations, create short and long term plans and give you some support.
good on you for being such a great mummy, it sounds like you are doing everything right but you just need someone to give you some further ideas and suggestons.
i dont have any advice but read the whoel post and wanted to say what a wonderful and caring mum you are. best of luck... xxx
:hug: Tan, it must be hard seeing this in your son knowing how it has affected your own life. I am not sure if there is much I can say to help but there are a couple of things that come to mind.
First my DD was also not breathing when she was born, and taken away for 20 mins while they worked to get her breathing. After a quick kiss and photo on my chest she was whisked away to NICU where she spent the next 40 or so hours. She is far from anxious, a robust, independent, cheeky girl so I seriously doubt that what happened immediately after L's birth caused him to be this way.
As far as whether you have made him this way through your parenting, I know a member's DD who has been parented in a very similar way to L - cosleeping, almost always in a sling, BF on demand etc and again, she is not anxious, she has a sense of inner security you can see it in her face - she looks like the cat that got the cream :). So I really don't think it is your parenting. I agree with PPs that if you had dealt with him differently if anything his anxiety might if anything be worse.
As for L and A being so different I think they are just inherently very different personalities.
I agree with the PPs - have him properly assessed as it sounds as though he will need support to begin school next year, and hopefully your GP or Paed can point you in the right direction.
You've given it a huge amount of thought and will have heaps to tell your doctor to explain exactly what the problem is, so I hope they can find the right support to help you both.
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I read the whole post and i really feel for you. I don't think your parenting has affected his behaviours, all children are different even those with the same parents.
I don't know where you are but Maquarie Uni in sydney runs special clinics and groups for anxious children, I have had a boy in my class go and it really helped.
I would try to contact a university near you for advice. I have a friend who works at maquarie in that area I can ask her if there are similar things in other states if you like??
I can't write much now, a friend is over, but my daughter has selective mutism, it was diagnosed when she was 3 and it's like she's been that way since birth. She was very high need/clingy/maintainance. It is an anxiety and it is very hard to deal with it as a parent. There is a book called 'Nurturing the Shy Child,' which is apparently a great book. I have bought it but not read it, as I read other books specific to selective mutism, but all were recommendations from the selective mutism org website. I definitely recommend finding a GOOD clinical child psych to help you through. Its good for you as well as the child.
I wrote an article about SM and my journey - which was very tough. My mother thinks I caused her SM. It hurt at the time but I know better and my psychologist reassured me too. My son doesn't have it and I parented him the same way. We all have a tendency to have certain traits and characteristics, anxiety is one of them and runs through my family.... my grandmother, me, and I think more than they realise...
Selective Mutism: When There's More To It Than 'Being Shy'
I think you're being so patient and really doing a fabulous job. Please, please, please don't beat yourself up about this.
I can be a very anxious person myself and I know it must be very distressing to see these traits in your boy because anxiety is a terrible thing. But I agree with the others that I really don't think it's your parenting.
After having DD, I really think they, to a large extent, come out with whatever personality they're meant to have. I barely got out of the house for the first 18 months after DD was born and she really wasn't around many people/other babies and yet, she's very outgoing. My sister and I are like chalk and cheese yet we were parented by the same parents in exactly the same way.
And please don't feel guilty about the separation following the birth. I barely held my daughter for the first two hours after she was born and I really don't see any signs that it has affected her in any way.
I think you've done all you can for the moment and it's time, as the others have said, to seek some more professional help.
As you probably know yourself, when it comes to seeking help it's not really a science. You'll get good advice and bad advice so go with your gut as to what suits your boy the most.
I wish you all the very best and am in total awe of how patiently and gracefully you've handled the situation so far. It seems to me that you've turned out to be a pretty good person and even if your son does have anxiety issues, if he's also inherited your goodness then the world and the people in it will be a better place for having him around.
I really have no advice but have read your post and wanted to offer :comfort: you are a wonderful mother and dont forget that. It is very easy to judge and blame ourselves when something isnt the norm with our children.
THe girls have offered you fantastic advice...and I think I might even get the book that Kelly suggested for my eldest.
again
:comfort: hon
Tan, hun, I don't have any advice, but I did real the whole thing i wanted to let you know I am here, listening. As you know, i've suffered anxiety on and off for most of my life,and my ds seems to be turning out to be a bit of a stressed, highly strung kind of kid (I could have written the paragraph about the shoes), so i empathise. A huge :hug:
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A clinical child psychologist... I would also HIGHLY recommend doing the PET course or at least reading the book. Its been brilliant - for the first time my daughter is being really open about her feelings and even thanks me for asking her about her day cos she really wanted to talk about it! My jaw hit the floor LOL :) Its been brilliant.
:hug: :comfort:
I can see why you want to 'blame' something. I do agree with PP that your DS would be much worse if you weren't so gentle.
DS was born via emergency c/section and due to breathing problems was in a humidicrib for 12 hrs... I got to hold his hand for about an hour (cause it was midnight) but didn't cuddle or feed him until he was over 12 hrs old. I am still bf and while DS starts off the night in his own bed we co-sleep from the first wakeup and feed a few times overnight still. So while I wouldn't say I parent exactly the same as you did for L I do feel it is similar to how you parent. DS is a very social and independant child (we don't go to playgroup and he has never been in childcare) I think his personality has as much to do with it as my parenting.
No words of wisdom on how to guide your sensitive boy but hope the options already suggested help.
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I, like everyone else don't think it has anything to do with your parenting.
My DS has some similar traits, doesn't really talk unless he is comfortable first, doesn't want to do anything on his own...I have to sit there and do it with him. I was also told that I needed to 'let him go' when he was younger, but I didn't think it was right due to the way HE was....and I don't think it was ME that made him that way, it is his personality, and I was strong enough to not let people convince me otherwise.
My DH has anxiety issues too....and I don't think he was parented in a way that nurtured that in him, which I find sad. DS is just like DH and I just make sure that I don't parent DS the same as MIL did to DH! MIL is not a bad mother though, just didn't handle things the way that I would of.
You sound like you are doing everything in your power to make sure that your DS is OK with the world and what more can you do? You can take him to see someone and that will perhaps clarify things for you that the way he is is not because of the way you parent him. To me, you sound like an absolute wonderful Mother.
:hug:
My DD1 is really clingy exhibiting many of the behaviours you described also, I had wondered if it was because she was weaned at 9months (when I caved to pressure from family etc) and because I had let her cry etc where as DD2 (who is pretty chilled out and self sufficient) was BF until she self weaned and coslept until she needed her own space. So almost the complete opposite scenario - apart for the looking for a reason,lol.
I think a huge proportion is innate personality as well as the influence of environment!
I would certainly look at getting your DS assessed as other have suggested but do keep in mind all kids are different and this may be his personality to a degree. Seeking advice on methods to support him and help him develop a good internal dialogue to assist him will make a massive difference to your confidence (FWIW sounds like you are doing a fab job).
DD has just finished her first term of kinder and it has made a massive difference - I cannot describe how much her behaviour and confidence has improved. I have to remind myself she is still really young too.
I can also second Lulu's recommendation of the Bach remedies - has worked wonders here for everyone, from DH down to the stressed out pooch ;)
Tan, I could have written the bit about the fluff and the screeching as well.
:hug: well done asking for help.
:hug: it's hard when you recognise traits from yourself that you wouldn't wish your child to have. I recently went through something similar (noticed my DS was socially withdrawn, and this is something I do myself). Noticing this in my DS pushed me to address the issues within myself that caused me to isolate myself, be withdrawn, be disengaged and push people away. The process has forced me to work on my "issews", be more mindful, live in the present, and reach out to my loved ones and people around me. Since I did this, about six months ago, I've been much happier. Funnily enough, DS has come out of his shell socially, is no longer withdrawn, and his personality is now really blossoming. Even his day-carer has asked what has happened because he was the shyest boy in her group and is now the most outgoing and boisterous!? Maybe some of that was timing and he would have developed socially anyway, but what I want to share is that I think modelling and environment both have a great deal of influence over which inborn traits are magnified and which are minimised. Of course temperament is a huge factor in anxious traits, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think that some of his anxious thoughts could have been learned ... and therefore can be unlearned! Which is great news! Your DS's fate is not sealed and you have taken the first important step. ETA - reading over that it sounds like I'm blaming you for your DS anxieties, so I just want to clarify that I don't think his anxieties are your fault at all - you have clearly done a great job and are a very dedicated mum! :hug:
Anxiety doesn't have to be a life sentence and there are fantastic strategies that a professional can teach you and him to prevent fears (thoughts) from ruling his mind and his behaviour. We can choose to listen to anxious and worring thoughts or we can choose not to. It takes a lot of time and effort to choose not to listen if you always have, but the great news is that he only new to all this and his thoughts and behaviour can be changed a lot more easily than an adult who has been living with anxiety for 2 or 3 decades.
What might have helped you reduce your anxieties as a youngster? What did you need your mum to do for you that she didn't? Perhaps you could spend some time thinking about that as it will probably help guide you in parenting your DS.
It sounds like your anxieties have been quite crippling since you became pregnant with him. I think another thing that will really help him, is for you to get some intensive help. What more powerful way to show him that anxiety does not have to rule his life than to live free of anxiety yourself?
I think the most important thing to remember is to have HOPE. It can and will get better - especially given that you're such a thoughtful mummy who is concerned about this issue and not afraid to ask for help. He will eventually learn to separate from you. He will eventually be less clingy, cope better with change, be able to go to school (I do think it is a good idea to hold him back if he isn't ready. Social and emotional readiness for school is more important than just intellectual readiness).
PS, I also wanted to say that my DS, who isn't an anxious child, also does some of the things you've listed: he demands I (or his dad) do activities with him, resists playing/doing things by himself; wants us to be with him until he falls asleep; hates mess, eg spilt milk when he's eating breakfast, that kind of thing; he also takes a while to warm up to strangers and until recently felt too shy to say hello or goodbye to people. Just saying that to let you know some of those behaviours aren't uncommon, they're developmental and to some degree, also temperamental in that some kids don't 'grow out of' these behaviours as quickly or easily as others.
Yup thats the one... check out Selective Mutism Group ~ Childhood Anxiety Network — Selective Mutism Group to see if you think it might be that. Has loads of great resources, books and info.
My DS does this too sometimes (usually when tired). I have just been reading "self esteem: a family affair" by Jean Illsley Clarke. Jean calls this way of responding "marshmallowing", and she doesn't recommend it for building self esteem. The response she recommends is being nurturing, but matter of fact or structuring and protecting, ie "Yes, there is some fluff on your toe, but it won't hurt you" (nurturing) or "There is fluff on your foot. It won't hurt you, but if it is bothering you, I know you can think of a way to get it off" (structuring and protecting). Jean argues that marshmallowing sounds supportive but actually fosters dependence and suggests the person (child) can't solve the problem themself. It's quite a good book, highly recommend it.:
Since reading it I tell DS "If you want me to help you, please dont ask like this <mimic his request using the same tone/whinging/screeching>, ask me in a nice voice like this <same request in pleasant voice>". That has helped immensely with communication when he gets upset like that. I have also stopped doing anything for him that he can do himself. This has been fantastic. Sometimes now, halfway through a screeching demand, he'll stop, think about what he needs to do to fix the problem, and go do it.
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Reading about some of his traits like the fluff thing sounds like he may have some sensory issues, I am no expert but DS has them and I have been reading an awesome book called "The Out of sync child" which Christy lent me and a a lot of it has lightbulb moments for me.
I think you are a great mother, if you weren't yu would be ignoring this not working your butt off to help him.
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Sweetheart you know him best, you have seen all the behaviour you described in so much detail in your original post. You're his mum, in your heart you know something isn't right, and you believe that someone must be able to help him, and you.
Maybe you can say you just want to have him checked out and if nothing is wrong they will be proved right and it can all be forgotten. If he does need some kind of early intervention then at least he is on that pathway. I know that they are family but you and DH are his parents it's up to you to make the decisions that you believe are in his best interests. It doesn't mean you don't respect them, it just means you agree to disagree. Don't doubt yourself.
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HUGE HUGE :hug: hun.
I don't know that I will have much useful advice, but I will give you some of my experience/observations. I am a childcare worker. I worked with a little boy, D (who was 3 when I first started with him) who as diagnosed with a variety of anxiety and OCD issues. When I first started at this centre I was not aware he had issues with anything. Sure, he seemed a bit hypervigilant with things like his bag and people/children sitting too close, he stood back from play with his peers but would sit and play with things with me or another carer, he was very touchy-feely with myself and the other carer (I later found out because he liked us and felt safe with us, so wanted to be close, though to the point of invading our 'space'). There were other things I can't think of now, but he had some very similar issues as your son with anxiety.
D was very settled int he environment of our centre when I started there. He had been attending 3days a week for about 8mths by then. When I later read his personal file and doctors reports, I got the bigger picture. He had been seeing a therapist for a while, his father had severe anxiety and depression. His mum was overly protective because she wanted him to be happy and he was mostly happy with her. But now he was happy with us too. After lots of work and nurturing he was able to happily say goodbye to his mum and then tell her about his great day when he went home. Before he left last year, he had made a niche for himslef with 3 of his peers. He interacted with the group relatively well, he was able sit in the group at story time, have children sit close to him even if they weren't his 'best' friends. He could be away from me and the other carer for the majority of the time.
What I am trying to say is that with some help and time, this little boy was dealing with his anxiety. He was having fun, he had friends, he looked forward to coming to childcare.
I think YOU are the best judge of your son. You and your DH. Not your MIL. She may know him, but she doesn't know him inside out like you do. You also know the signs of anxiety. I think you know what is the right thing to do. And you know what even if you do take him to a therapist of some sort, they can tell you yes or no. Yes he needs more help from a professional, or no he doesn't need help, you're doing a great job! As you said these people are professionals, they won't make matters worse and they can ease your worries, either way.
Oh sweety :hug: :hug: :hug:
MILs seem to always have a way of making silly comments :hug: Be strong honey, and like thepixie says don't doubt yourself..you have no reason to hun. You are a beautiful caring mummy x
If it is SM, you should never pressure, bribe or force them to talk. It only makes the anxiety to perform worse.
If you can get to a library or get a copy of the selective mutism book sooner to have a read and see if that might be it, sounds like there are some signs there. I didn't go to a psychiatrist at all, just a child psychologist. Be wary of the push for meds. They don't need it. Unfortunately sometimes they need time to get through this, now my daughter is 8 she is starting to initiate conversations with confidence to people she knows, family friends and family members. The best thing I did was work on how I was coping with it as it made it worse. You dont want them to see their behaviour causing you more anxiety... acceptance of what is, is so important. Ignore the others. I had loads of family and friends tell me SM was a joke, just shyness or I should push her to get on with it. I'd much rather help my child develop comfortably and well, than push when I shouldn't and mess them up or drag it out.
I agree with thepixie.. you know him best and you've described in detail some behaviors that are causing concern. There is NO harm in seeking out professional advice about how to help him through it! (I agree with Bellybelly that it's wise to be wary of meds. I think this is a learning curve rather than a chemical one). Maybe your MIL is a bit defensive - that seems like a "there's nothing wrong with MY genes, it must be YOUR parenting!" kind of reaction.
My mum is a wonderful support person, always helping out with the children etc. Often we don't see eye to eye on things and she makes sly comments, so there are some things that I just don't share with her any more. That works well for me. What she doesn't know, she can't get offended about, hehe!! Maybe that could work for you too since MIL is one of your only support persons.
:hug: it sounds like you've had a real battle with PND. I'm sure as you climb up out of it, you'll see some changes in your son too. It probably has been a bit difficult for him (which is in NO WAY YOUR FAULT), but things will get better. Is the support/treatment you're getting for your PND helping you? How are you going with it now?
Don't take her comments on board. They're not helpful and therefore best ignored. :)
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Well done, Tan it sounds like you have handled the MIL situation perfectly. I can see that it was a knee jerk reaction on her part, not wanting to believe anything is wrong with her grandson! Completely understandable. And as far as how you're managing his behaviour, well you are just doing the best you can with everything you know about it. Hopefully the doctors can help you get to the bottom of it, so that you can find strategies that are really tailored to what he is going through - once you know what that is.
As for why he doesn't trust you - I really don't think that is it. I think he does trust you - look at how he relates to others and then compare it to the way he relates to you, you are probably the ONLY person in the world he does trust. It's just that his base level of trust is very different from the norm.
I really hope you can get some answers so that you can stop doubting yourself and see that you really are doing a great job in a very difficult situation :hug:
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