Just a question about tearing

I'm just wondering if not tearing means that your birthing technique was better than normal? I don't mean this thread to be antagonistic or anything. I just want to understand the different ideas and attitudes towards tearing.
I needed an episiotomy with DD1 as her HR had dropped and then with DD2 I tore. When it happened, I didn't really think about it and didn't really care that it had happened. As far as I was concerned there was nothing I could have done to prevent it. I was so focussed on pushing her out that I didn't even think about trying to prevent tearing. Some of the posts I've read on BB talk about labour and not tearing in the tone that it's something to be proud of, as of not tearing is a big achievement. I never thought of not tearing in that light as something that was an achievement. It's not that I don't think it's an achievement. I guess it's because I never really gave much thought to the issue. I was prepared that if it happened, it happened. I did do some preparation but maybe it was because of the episiotomy that I tore. I don't know. I'd just really like to hear how people feel about tearing or not tearing and what their head space is in regards to it. I just never thought of it as something that was worth mentioning (in my situation only). Please don't take this thread personally or in a negative way. It's a hard one to get across over a thread but I'm really interested in other people's thoughts......

I tore because my labour was very fast dd was born 40 minutes after my waters broke so the midwife thought my body didn't have time to be prepared when I had to push. My ob and midwife thought I had hours to but I just had to push.

with DD i didnt tear at all. i didnt really think of it at the time till they told me i hadnt and i was so happy lol. i didnt do anythign to prepare but when i was pushign the midwife held a hot washer on me between pushes so i dunno if that done anything. i had a epi so i coudlnt even feel the pushing part at the start and wasnt pushing prop but as soon as i got the push right she was out on 2 pushes. in saying that though i was stuck at 5cm dialated for hrs so i dunno if the slowly dialating helped stretch everything too.

thats a good question, i have thought that before too. in my situation i had epi and internal tears with first birth and then had an episiotomy with second (due to scar tissue from first) i dont think i would have torn second time because the pushing stage (and whole labour really) was so different. i WISH i hadnt have torn. i guess i see it as an achievement when i hear other people saying they didnt, i am like wow good on ya. but having said that i dont feel bad about myself or my 'labouring skills' that i did. when people talk to me about not tearing i think some people see it as just a good thing, one less pain they had to go through. some others who put in a lot of effort to avoid tearing during pregnancy would see it as an achievment i think.

i think it can be a combo of many things, i had epi with DD1 and a labial tear, with DD2 i started pushing on all fours but had to turn over because i was starting to tear internally as her head decended, i also torn along part of my old epi site and had another labial tear, i also swell quiet badly too, i was reviewed the next day by a OB and he said im just unlucky that i tear and that i probably have lots of stretch marks due to lack of stretchy skin, i has NO stretch marks so that baffled him :lol: i was just unlucky and i think no matter how i birth, i will tear :(

I think there is much you can do to help prevent tearing so I do think that not tearing can have a lot to do with a more optimum birth. I tore last time and getting stitches was such a traumatising experience for me that I will be working with my midwife to prevent tearing this time.

I had a few factors that contributed to my tearing:
- no perineum preparation
- birthed on a birthing stool
- coached to push very hard, though reminded to stop during crowning it's a bit hard to slow down after all that pressure to push
- midwife supported my perineum during crowning
- baby was on a slight angle
- baby was over 4kgs
- dry birth on land

Obviously not all of those could have been prevented and not all are guaranteed contributors to tearing but I'm aware that tearing isn't just a 'chance' thing and I hope to be in a more optimum position next time and we'll see what happens.

Interesting question Nik. I kinda liken it to getting stretch marks, in some people it's destined to happen (coming from someone who got tons of stretchmarks and also tore ;) ) I think that there are lots of different factors involved and in my situation it was a case of crappy skin and the 10pd baby

For me it was a big fear, so I was really happy I didn't tear. I did lots of things to help:
-perenial massage from 36 weeks
-hot washer on perenium during pushing
-breathing the baby out at crowning
-a medium sized baby lol (she was born at 38 weeks)

I think the 'achievement' idea is really more relief and surprise/joy for those fearful of tearing.

It's silly to compare births though, because there are so many variables.

Good question! I don't see it as an achievement that is to be gloated about, but for me, it is all about post-birth healing. Of course if you have a bad tear there is a risk of poor repair which may lead to further problems down the track. Some women tear so badly that they need surgical repair and that is something that you would never wish on anyone! Of my 4, I have had an epi, two 2nd deg tears and a small graze which required no stitches, so technically while I have never not-torn, I have experienced post birth without stitches and it was awesome!!!! When I was pg with my first, I read a book that said some Drs will do an epi as routine for first time Mums, so I asked my Dr about it and he said that he only ever did it if it needed to be done. He explained that he preferred women to tear so he didn't have to cut. Obviously he was happier still if women didn't tear at all. So while I did end up with an epi with my first birth because I was starting to tear straight down and my Dr wanted to avoid having a tear going down towards the rectum, I don't regret that, because as DH said at the time, there was 'no way known he was going to come out unless it was done' and he had spectacular head moulding at birth. I just think that being post birth without stitches is wonderful because when you have to do the first poo after giving birth you don't have to worry about popping a stitch ROFL! But after the first 3 births when I had stitches I was terrified of having to do a poo and took laxatives and painkillers before I needed to go so it didn't hurt as much plus I also had to support the area while I did it by holding a pad against my perenium - TMI possibly that is the reality of it.

So no, I don't think that by not tearing a woman has in some way had a better birth than one who did tear. You may have a woman tear that had a completely drug-free hands-off birth from start to finish and used every birth position known to mankind that would help reduce tearing, but a woman who didn't tear may have had given birth completely loaded on pain relief and flat on her back. It is all about perspective. If you think you had a great birth whether you tore or not is fantastic and no one can take that away from you simply because they didn't tear themselves. :)

Thank you all for your answers. I guess I just wanted to know whether it was a major thing, because as far as I'm concerned, tearing was one of the things I thought least about and it doesn't affect how I think about my births at all. It's just how different people talk about it too. And on the other hand, there are people who see tearing as some sort of badge too....hence the often asked question "How many stitches did you get?" as if the number of stitches indicates anything. I never knew how many stitches I had. All I know is that it took a really long time to stitch me up and it was actually worse than giving birth, headspace wise. If I had the choice I would tear over an episiotomy. The healing from the tear was a breeze compared to the episiotomy as I couldn't stand or walk properly for over a week after being cut.

Again, thanks so much for your insights. I'm so glad I got my question across without offending! :) It's so nice to get so many open and honest answers on, what I think, quite an interesting topic :) x

Yeah, I don't understand that mindset about having a particular number of stitches either. I guess it is seen as a 'measure' as to how bad it was? And that is why I much preferred to tear as opposed to being cut as well. I didn't have a problem with walking, but with sitting and moving my left leg in a certain way was dreadful for about 2weeks until the stitches were gone. I do think it is a very individual thing though. For some women the measure of a great birth is not having stitches, for others it might be having a drug/intervention free birth and for others it might be something else entirely.

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For some women the measure of a great birth is not having stitches, for others it might be having a drug/intervention free birth and for others it might be something else entirely.

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Exactly. I love that the whole topic of pregnancy, birth and child rearing is so varied when it comes to perceptions, opinions and actions. Even if someone's ideas are polar opposite to my ideas, I love discovering the reasoning behind it and having an open mind.

That is a good question. I think as the others have said there a lots of different factors that all bear some weight on whether you tear or not. Some you can try to influence (birthing position, technique - for want of a better word - when crowning etc.), and some that are just luck of the draw (shape and position of the baby, shape and position of your 'equipment' etc.)

I think I am a bit with you, it is just something that happens sometimes and not others and you roll with what you are given. When I was doing prenatal aquarobics there was some discussion on preparation for labour to try and avoid tearing and our instructor who is a mother and spends a lot of time with pregnant women said much the same, if it happens it happens and you deal with it and then you get on with it. I mean tearing and the recovery is not fantastic but it is part and parcel of what I signed up for!

On not tearing being an achievement, you know I had never thought about it that way but now you mention it when I hear or read other peoples birth stories I do get a sense of either a) achievement OR b) just pretty darn happy. I guess sometimes it is hard to tell the difference (especially in the written word) between the former and the latter!

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I do think it is a very individual thing though. For some women the measure of a great birth is not having stitches, for others it might be having a drug/intervention free birth and for others it might be something else entirely.

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Exactly what Trillian said. Because the tearing wasn't really that important to me I have no idea how many stitches I had or even what degree tear it was. All I know is that it did take a while for it to be stitched and it hurt way way way worse than actually birthing my baby and one of my midwives commented that the other midwife did a good job stitching it up. I saw my midwife a few times in the week after the birth and she kept asking about my stitches but the pain was insignificant compared to the pain from my dislodged coccyx

I don't have any idea how many stitches I had, and only knew I had a second degree tear because that was what was on the sheet when I was discharged from hospital LOL But I do hear of others speaking about tears and stitches like it is a 'badge of honor' as to how difficult their labour was. I personally don't see it as a badge of honor but at the same time don't have an issues with those that do. There are a lot worse things you could try to measure yourself or your labour by.

Yeah, I don't have an issue with it, but I just don't understand it.

I think some people use tearing and stitches to make the horror story worse and others feel proud of their body for not tearing.
I had an episiotomy with my first and it brokedown and had a very long complicated recovery. This time I had 2nd degree tearing which was pretty messy but healed SOOO much better than the episi.
They were just giving me local for another episi when out came my 4.8kg boys head, so i felt really proud that I didn't need one, but its definitely not something I think you have much control over.

My ultimate labour and birth wish would be to just have a graze but besides labouring in water which I think will help stretching, I think there is a lot of luck and due to scar tissue I will probably always tear.

I think its like bringing on labour when you are overdue, you can try lots of things and ultimately who knows if they worked or it would have happened like that anyway.

I think there's different things that contribute, and for sure there are things you can do to help avoid tearing, positioning and breathing etc. Having said that , sometimes you will just tear. I've had 3 VBs and with my first I grazed, second didn't tear or graze,at all and with my fourth had a second degree tear - so all different.

As for being proud about it, or competitive - some women just are :dunno: I found the midwives made a big deal out of it & I was thinking 'well, I didn't really have much to do with it ' lol. But if you have worked to try & avoid it I guess you might feel a bit chuffed with yourself for achieving it.

Yeah, I think the "yay I didn't tear" thing is more about relief that it dodn't happen (and they're ont having to deal with recovery) than anything else. I had an episiotomy and that really sucked. I didn't care at the time (honestly) but it sure had an impact on me afterwards. I hope I'll be able to say "I didn't tear" next time and it'll be all about me and my non-stichted perenium and nothing more than that.

Satistically, there are things shown to reduce the likelihood, but as with all things there's a good dose of luck in there also.

I've been wondering this myself! With DD, the midwife told me to lie on the bed to start pushing. I argued that standing would be better to prevent tearing and she assured me that I wouldn't tear on the bed.
She told me to push hard, then soft, then hard, etc, and voila I didn't tear.
My labour was about 10 hrs (from 3cm - 10cm) and I spent most of it lying down. Also, I had no pain relief.. no perineum preparation either.

I definitely think that a fast labour is likely to result in tearing, as well as bad coaching, baby's head size, and possibly epidural might increase the chances..

DD had a small head! (Just as well coz I am a tiny person!)