Help......don't know what else to do!

Hello,

I am not sure what I am after here, advice…stories of success, anything really at this point so that I know I am not alone.

I will try and keep this short, but I don’t think it will be.

A bit of background info first.

About 2 ½ months ago I realised that DS#2 had lost weight…….he had lost 1kg in about 4 weeks, he was screaming at the breast after every feed and feeding every 1 or so. He was also only having 2 slightly wet nappies is a day (disposable). When I went to the doctors they did some tests on me and discovered that I had an over active thyroid, which in turn was affecting my milk supply. So I was given motilium, 3 tabs a day to see if that helped. They wanted to wait and see what was happening with my thyroid before doing anything (see post here https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...tml?highlight=). After about 3 weeks my thyroid levels went back to normal and my milk supply re-established and it was a dream for about 3 weeks. More tests revealed that my thyroid was now underactive and again my milk supply was affected. I was put back on the Motilium and it was a wait and see game. After about 2 weeks my thyroid stabilised and I started weaning myself off the motilium at 1 tab a week. As soon as I dropped the first tablet (middle of the day one) I noticed a huge drop in my supply.

I am now on 2 tablets 3 times a day but I still need to comp feed DS#2. It took 5 weeks for him to put on the weight he lost and then he simply maintained for about 4 weeks. He has put on 500gm in the last 2 weeks after I increased his comp feeds.

I am at a point where I am looking at simply continuing with the breastfeeding and a top up for as long as I can, but in the end believe that eventually he will be FF. This is not what I want but feel that my body has made the decision for me. I got the ABA booklet “Increasing Your Supply” and I have been doing everything it suggests to help boost my supply over the last 2 and more months, but it has not made any difference. I have tried lactation cookies, fenugrek, and traditional Chinese medicine, next week I am going to see an acupuncturist. I am also trying to find a LC on my area, but I don’t know that they can do to help to be honest :crying:

I am wondering if I am fighting a never-ending battle here. I know that it is only a decision that I can make as to whether not to continue but some advice would be fantastic. I am finding this difficult as I BF DS#1 for 19 months with no problems at all!

I can say that his sucking and attachment is perfect, the problem is not at his end but mine.

Thanks,

Tracey, that sounds very frustrating for you. After such a successful breastfeeding experiences the first time you would never have expected this :hug:

For some mums, breastfeeding isn't an all or nothing thing. Combining ff and bfing can be a really good option when full bfing isn't possible. While I know this isn't what you wanted, the fact that you are still providing bm to your DS is a great thing, and is doing him good every single day. Whatever happens you have done the best you can and will continue to do so.

How would you feel about calling 1800 mum 2 mum? You have done your research, so they might not be able to help you with any extra information, but sometimes is can be a big help just talking it through with someone who understands.

You are doing a fantastic job.

hi mantaray,

Thanks for your words of support, I remember your kind words when I posted about this issue last time :)
I have been putting off calling the ABA to be honest, I don't know why...I guess I don't want to hear that there really is nothing else I can do...am still in a bit of denial I guess:redface:

Will call them next week I think, then I can say that I have done everything I possible could.

I would like to continue with combining the BF with the comp feed for as long as possible because I agree that he is still getting some of the good stuff.

Have tried introducing solids, but he spits it out (quite forcibly) or blows bubbles with it, the look in his face is priceless, you would think I had out the most disgusting thing in the world in his mouth :lol: DS#1 was the opposite, loved all the textures and tastes, goes to prove that no 2 children are the same :D Will try again next week.

Thanks again,

Hi Traceyvon

Firstly so sorry that you are having to go through this - I think feeding your new baby and making sure they are getting enough nutrition is one of the biggest challenges any new mum must face.

While I didn't have your issues with thyroid or actually my baby losing weight we also had a lot of issues with supply and lower weight gains. We went through topping up and expressing to increase supply and dealing with supply being effected by his lack of feeding. I was also put on motillium starting off on the 2 tabs x 3 times per day. After about 3 months I eventually accepted tops ups as being part of my breast feeding experience. Rather than doing top ups after each feed I offered two larger tops ups, one after his late afternoon (say 4pm) feed and the 2nd at the dream feed that I did at about 10pm. I felt this did two things. It gave me the confidence that if he wasn't getting enough from the breast feeds he had two opportunities to have two much bigger feeds - fairly certain that even at 3 months I was offering him 120ml top ups but may have just built up to this. Also meant that he was only having BFs on the majority of his feeds. I also found that doing it this way meant that over a number of weeks he reduced down the amount of those two top ups considerably. (for example 10pm started at offering 120ml in the end he was only taking 10mls). Maybe this is a structure that you could consider?

In relation to the motillium my doctor was happy for me to continue on motillium as long as I needed to - I stayed on the 2 tab x 2 times per week for months and months before I moved down to 1 x 2 times per day. My doctor who is also a qualified lactation consultation wasn't in any hurry to get me to stop taking the motillium. In fact I am still taking 10.5 months later in 1 tab once per day - as I am still bfing (though am slowly weaning at this stage).

I also echo MRs advice about ringing the ABA - I phoned them often when going through my hurdles and sometimes just being able to speak to someone who wanted you to succeed really really helped.

I guess what I am trying in a long winded way to say is that as MR said combining both is 100% okay. It doesn't have to be a case of either or. The times you get to breast feed are special and the times you have to top up you know its what is best for your LO. Hopefully your thyroid issue will be resolved and you can continue
to BF as long as possible. The best of luck for both of you. Would love to hear how you both go.

Hi Tracey.
What's your thryoid situation now? Are you on medication or has any further testing been advised? The most important thing is that you stay on top of that obviously :hug: It must be extremely frustrating that your thyroid is first doing one thing then another!

Please do call the ABA, or even go along to your local group meeting. They're wonderful, supportive people! And MR is completely right - it doesn't have to be all or nothing, anything at all is good, truly!
Take care

Thanks Now we're 3 and marcellus for your replies,

Now we're 3 - thanks for sharing your story with me, it is nice to know that I am not they only one out there struggling with supply issues, it can feel like I am the only one in the world at times. :redface: As much as I would love to restrict his top ups he really does need them after every feed, otherwise I end up with a screaming baby because he is starving...having said that I could start giving him less formula when topping up and see how that goes.....something to think about...thanks. On average he is having 60ml after each feed, sometimes more and sometimes less. He tends to have more before bed and when waking up in the morning.

marcellus - my thyroid is now stable. The Drs did not want me on any meds due to breastfeeding so it sorted itself out for now, I am still undergoing tests to ensure nothing else happens. I have contacted my local ABA and will be going along to suss it out...thanks for reminding me if them!

One of the great things all of you lovely ladies have given me is the support and reassurance that doing both is OK :lol: Silly that I needed it I know, but I felt as though I had to make a decision as to what I was going to do about giving up the breastfeeding....perspective is what you have helped me to gain and I cannot thank you enough for that.

:hug:

I haven't had any issues with breastfeeding (I'm one of the boring success stories) but I do believe in taking the option of least stress so you save your sanity. Breastfeeding alone isn't that path for you.

If you have to top up, you have to top up, its not the end of the world. If you don't want the risk of bubs preferring the bottle to boob and dropping the boob completely too early, why not get one of those feed line things where you have a tube next to your nipple and bubs gets formula and breastmilk at once? That might stop the screaming after feeds and make everyone happier.

hi rumpledelf,

I have used a supply line with some success, but at the moment he either hates the feel of the line in his mouth, or he just sucks on the line without the nipple, cheeky monkey that he is :doh:
I am not stressed about nipple confusion, he is 6 months old and loves having boobie first, still likes to stroke and cuddle it and is happy to take a bottle to top up. We have been doing it this way for a few weeks now with no problems.

Thanks for reminding me it is not the end of the world. At the moment it feels like it and I think it is because I feed DS#1 for 19 months with no problems at all, I just assumed that I would have no problems this time, but that was not the way it was meant to be:)

Hi, there,
Manta makes some good points. Breastfeeding isn't *all or nothing*, Thee's much more to breastfeeding than the quantity of milk you make.
First up, I would head back to the doctor for a review. If your thyroid is under-active, you are not making enoough thyroxin- you can supplement the amount of thyroxin your body is making with with tablets - and this is compatible with breastfeeding. (a call to Rodney Whyte at the Monash Medical Centre drug information line will be very helpful - som-one will post the phone number I hope!)
There are a number of hormones needed for a full milk supply. Like a cake, you need all of them - but different quantities of each. A good explanation of this can be found at Low Milk Supply -- Providing Information and Support to Breastfeeding Mothers. It is likely that the motilium is not effective,because it boosts prolactin levels - but your prolactin levels are probably fine - it's your thyroxin that's the problem.
As your baby is able to take more solids, gradually you will be able to replace the formula in his diet. There is no need to stop breastfeeding. Hanging out at ABA meetings is great - so often we encounter people that just don't kno why we do it - why we don't *just put them on the bottle* It;s good to feel understood and supported. You are doing a great job - it's tough when you have fed so long and so well, and then face these sort of problems.

Thanks barb, I have been told that my thyroid has stablised but I have a doctors appointment tomorrow and I will ask for another blood test just to check. I am lucky that I have an extremely supportive sister who is my sounding board for everything, having breastfeed for 7 years continuously through 3 children. I have going to go my local ABA meeting and check it out as well. I am glad that I can start introducing soilds, unfortunalty not having much luck with the few attemts I have tried, he hates it LOL, unlike DS#1 who loved it.

Will go and check out that website now,

Thanks!

thought I would give a quick up date.

Just got back from the doctors who said that my TSH levels where 6. So while I am slight above "normal" she does not want to treat it at this point. She said that my body was obviously sensitive to being slightly above 'normal' hence the supply issues. Don't know if this is true or not. Having another blood test tomorrow and will be monitored over the next 6 months or so to see how it goes.

So still in limbo land at the moment.......getting sick and tired of it to be honest!

Sorry to hear that you are still in limbo land with regards to the thyroid problem and your supply. Hope the topping up continues to work and you can continue breastfeeding. Had a little chuckle when you said that he would just suck on the supply line and not bother with the nipple when you used that. You're right they are cheeky little monkies and I bet you he would have had a smile on his face doing so as well! I know all babies are different but if its worth anything we never had issues swapping between boob and bottle and we did it for a long time. He would quite happily go from one to the other. Hope it is the same for you.

woah, 6 is too high. I depends on the reference range for your lab, but that sounds well over normal to me. Do you know your T4 levels?
Is this an endocrynologist or GP? It is very tricky if you're going hyper and hypo, though. Definitely see a specialist if you haven't already - sometimes there are treatment options. Thyroxine is fine while breastfeeding, but you doc's concern may be if you switch to overdrive again. Treatment for Hyperthyroidism I think might not be ok when breastfeeding.

marcellus - the lab reference was 3.5 to 5.0 mIU/L for normal, hence my GP said that I am slightly above. I have not seen a specialist as she is is regular contact with one who wants to do the wait and see approach. While I would also love to be on meds to get this under control she is reluctant as I was hyper and now hypo, all over the place really, so they want to wait and see if it settles on its own. T4 and T3 levels are back to normal.

Now we're 3 - yes he did have a smile on his face LOL. I have decided to make the most of doing top ups and will be going to the hairdressers and leaving bubs with mum....there has to be some positives to all of this :)

Yeah, bloody nuisance that your thyroid is so naughty! It should at least pick a direction :rolleyes:
I hope it does sort itself out soon

Thats the attitude - a silver lining in every cloud :-)

Hope it all works out for you!

Tracey, are you feeling a bit more positive? I'm sure a trip to the hairdresser helps most things seem better for a while at least!

It must be frustrating to still not have answers, but it does sound like you are getting closer. Hang in there hun - you are doing a really great job in a difficult situation. I hope the next bloods get you even closer to knowing what's going on and a way forward :hug:

hi mantaray,

Don't know if positive is the right word, more accepting of the situation I think. Am taking it one day at a time at the moment. I noticed there seemed to be more breast milk today and I thought this was wonderful until I also noticed that he was taking more formula. Growth spurt or due to his cold I don't know. I have never paid so much attention to every suck....maybe that is it too?!

Am hanging in there. Looking forward to see in the acupuncturist next week, he is also a traditional Chinese herbalist and spent many years in China learning his skills and often returns to update himself, can't wait to see what he can do to help. I also have POCS and am overweight so hoping he can help out with that as well.

Now we're 3 - yes, I do try to find the silver lining, the other thing I want to do is go and see a movie, have not done that for about 7 months! Gold class seats here I come :dance: if I am going to do it may as well in in style!

a quick up date,

DS#2 has only had 30ml of formula all day :dance: he usually has between 70-100ml after every feed for the last few weeks. I am impressed especially as he had his needles yesterday and had a slight temp and really clingy and upset all day today. He just wanted boobie all day and was still getting lots of wet nappies :clap:

I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but I am hoping this progress continues. It has been 1 week since we increased the motilium to 2 tabs 3x a day and I have read that it takes 3 weeks to see the full effect of this. So my plan is to continue with the motilium for another 2 weeks and then start weaning myself off it at 1 tablet at week and seeing what happens. I was going to do this anyway regardless of that happened today, just to see if I can get myself off them. Any drop in my supply will see me go back to what I am doing now.

I feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel :pray:

Yeah thats great news. I continued on the 2 x twice a day tabs for ages and ages - well longer than normal and my doctor (who is also LC) was perfectly happy with that and then dropped to the 2 x once a day. I did find that my supply seemed to drop slightly when I reduced the tabs I was taking but then stablised as my body got used to the new number of tabs.

Hope the good news continues.

thanks for the info about your supply dropping then stabilising, will keep that in the back of my head should the same happen here!

That's great news, well done!

Wow Tracey, that certainly sounds positive. I'm so glad you've had a win - I hope it's the first of many :hug: