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Via Facebook, he has answered a not so nice quiz about DS. It is not real nasty but just the fact that he has done this proves my initial point about the promise his mother wanted me to accept. An Undertaking is a promise to the Court so how would he keep a promise to me? I will bring this up in Court.
Regards,
Dianne
hugs hun
this is just stupid, obvious the boys mum doesn't ahve any influence over him.
if i was his mum id be cutting out any temptation
Totally uncool! :hug:
But what on earth is he still doing unblocked from yours or your sons facebook???
Totally uncool! :hug:
But what on earth is he still doing unblocked from yours or your sons facebook???
Very sucky, but LS has a good point there ...:
hun what you are doing is facebook stalking...
and is wrong, I know you are only doing it to be protective but it can and will be used against you. Cyber stalking is a big deal now.
You really need to block him
hope this issue is sorted soon
DS has him blocked, a mutual friend of theirs has seen it and told DS.
Regards,
Dianne
If it's the application I'm thinking of- you answer random questions about random friends and then the friend the question was about gets a post on thier wall.
Hope that makes sense....
So she wouldn't have had to look at his profile to see it. But her DS would have to be friends with the boy.
Dianne- I agree with the others in that you need to block him from yours and DS's accounts though :hug:
ETA- guess it's not the one I thought then...
Also, why not go one further and delete him, not just block. I mean, I can't see all of this blowing over one day and your DS and him will want to be friends again. If your DS isn't on his friends list (blocked or not) the application cannot access your DS profile to put him in the random questions in the first place, problem solved. If this boy has such an issue with being a decent person, may as well take away all temptation for him to hurt you or your DS.
This is why i dont think teenagers should be using these sorts of websites.
My 14 yo niece is having issues with girls hacking into her FB, bebo and other networking sites and saying hideous horrible things about her and sending messages pretending to be her to other people which caused a huge fight at school.
Some parents just dont care what their kids get up to online.
:hug: hope it blows over soon.
I'm not sure how it works, DS has this boy blocked but obviously the boy still has DS on his friends list. I will get DS to delete him altogether when he gets home.
Regards,
Dianne
Yep definately get DS to simply delete him, like I said, I can't see the point in keeping any form of contact with him, this boy will clearly just abuse it. :hug:
If DS deletes him will he be removed from the boys friends list or would the boy have to also delete DS?
Regards,
Dianne
Nope, as soon as your DS deletes him, your DS will be removed from this kids FB also. Combine that with being blocked, and make sure your DS does not share any mutual friends on FB (it says whether he does or not if you go to this kids FB page when logged in as your DS, there will be a box above the normal friends box with 'mutual friends'), and there is no way he can get to him, learn anything about your DS life or anything via FB.
If he is blocked from your DS's facebook he is automatically deleted as his friend. It is not strictly true that once someone is blocked they can't access you at all
and:
Blocking allows you to prevent most interactions with someone on Facebook. People you block won't be able to find you in searches, view your profile, or contact you with pokes, Wall posts, or personal messages. In addition, they will not be able to see your Wall posts, comments on mutual friends’ Walls, or that you are a member of the same group as them.
They will, however, see your comments on content that is posted by a mutual friend. You will see their comments as well.
I would say that if you want to use that kind of thing in court, you may need to get a signed statement from the friend that saw it on FB with info about the kind of quiz it is and the date the quiz was done. If the quiz was done before your son blocked this person, then it may just be automatically generated and it might not be an issue. Do you have a lawyer or a legal advisor because I would probably talk to them about it.:
If you block a user, some content that they posted before you blocked them will remain on your profile and on other areas of the site. This content includes:
■Messages in your Inbox (You will not be able to click to view the blocked user’s profile).
■Wall posts the user had previously made on your Wall.
■Stories about the blocked user that are posted on your mutual friends’ Walls (e.g., If the blocked friend tagged one of your mutual friends in a photo).
■Photos that both the blocked user and one or more mutual friends are tagged in.
■Groups that the blocked user has created. (You can still request to join these groups. The name of the blocked user will appear as a "Creator" and will show up in black, but the user will not show up in the list of officers).
■Photos previously tagged of you by the blocked user.
■Messages that the blocked user sends to a thread that you are both a part of.
■Messages that the blocked user sends to a group of which they are an admin and you are a member.
■Invitations to an event that is affiliated with a group in which the blocked user is an admin and you are a member.
■Comments made by the blocked user on a photo that was added by a mutual friend.
■Photos the blocked user adds to a group you are both in.
I think the relevance of what the boy posted on FB would also have to do with whether the behaviour is seen as bullying or inciting bullying. If it is stirring up trouble then it might be relevant, but the courts may not have any jurisdiction to stop this boy from ever mentioning your son or talking about him to others. There is only a certain amount they can do and they can't completely control all the actions of another person - they need to give him reasonable freedom as well.
Sorry, I am not actually sure what has gone on between your son and this boy so some of this might be irrelevant.
If abusive behaviour over FB continues, FB recommends the following:
:
■Report Abusive Behavior Directly to Facebook
The most efficient way to report abuse is to do it in the same place it occurs on Facebook. For example, if you receive a harassing message in your Inbox, you can report the message by clicking on the "Report" link next to the sender's name as you are reading the message. If you receive a harassing message from a person who is a Facebook friend of yours, you should remove the person as a friend and report the message. Reporting the message as harassing will automatically add this person to your Block list. You can also use the "Report/Block person" link that appears at the bottom of the abusive user's profile. If you learn that someone is continuing to make abusive comments about you even after you've blocked them, you can ask a friend to report that person on your behalf. Reports are confidential and the user being reported does not know that they have been reported. After a report is submitted, we will investigate the issue and make a determination as to whether or not the content should remain on the site based on our Statement of Rights and Responsibilities. A Facebook administrator looks into each report thoroughly before taking action. Please note that our team makes it a priority to respond to reports of harassing messages on the site.
■Restrict Privacy Settings
To restrict the amount of information that potential bullies may have access to, customize your privacy settings so that certain people can't access information like your Wall, photos, or profile. You can also change your privacy settings if you are uncomfortable being found in searches or having your profile viewed publicly. Privacy on Facebook is controlled primarily from the Privacy Settings page. This page is always available by navigating to the "Privacy Settings" option in the Account drop-down menu available from the top of every page. Please note that minors do not have public search listings created for them, so they do not appear in outside search engines until they have turned 18.
DO NOT DELETE OR BLOCK HIM YET.
You want all the evidence you can on him. You need to get some screen prints done of what this boy has been saying. Try and get the friend to do it if your son cant. :hug:
The more chance this kid has to stuff up the better it is for you guys IYKWIM. Kind of like keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
After this has all gone through court then do all of the above with blocking, etc.
In a way in cases like this you really want this boy to say something incriminating himself and then have evidence of it.
It isn't bullying if your son can't see it, hear it, or be bothered by it.
So as long as he is deleted and blocked, the boy can say whatever he likes about whomever he likes.
I really don't get why people do this - block him, delete him, and move on to the important things - like protecting your home and your son physically from this kid.
:
yep, agreed 100% And fwiw, deletung him does in fact get rid of all interaction, and keeping him blocked ensures he cannot find or contact your ds.
I get what you girls are saying but seeming this boy and his mother have now put in to the courts about Dianne and her DS I would want as much evidence to get a restraining order against him. I dont think any teenage boy or any person wants someone saying **** about them and defaming them around people that are common peers. Bullying is on of those things that even with Dianne's DS blocking and deleting him, this kid is still going to find a way to get to him unless something is done by the court. From Dianne's other threads, this kid is definitely no angel and needs to be dealt with by the courts. The only way to do this is to have evidence. Written evidence is alot clearer and harder to argue against that a he said, she said conversations. Just my opinion
Again though BB, he can say whatever he likes about any one he pleases on his own page, so long as it is not inciting violence.
So given that this 'quiz' was not postd on Diane's wall, her DS's wall or sent to him, then it can't be used as anything other than someone expressing an opinion - it isn't bullying because someone says something nasty about you - it has to be directed TO you.
So long as Diane and her DS have not said or done anything to warrant an intervention order that the woman is seeking, it doesn't matter. Diane has evidence against the boy already, and if Diane's DS has in fact not done anything to inflame the situation or said anything in retaliation, then there is no need for her to be able to disprove anything.
Your opinion is totally valid :hug: I just do not see the point in keeping him as a 'friend' on fb; to me it seems illogical and akin to adding gas to the flame. I'm no legal expert so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure fb lurking is not evidence. I am familiar with the application in question, (at least I believe I am) and it asks generic questions about people on your friends list which you answer in any way you please. This kid does need to be dealt with, I agree, but I'm not sure the court would look all that favourably at evidence that suggest the boy is using a randomized fb application...I'd also think they'd question why you could bother staying 'friends' with him, it just seems more detrimental to all of this than 'useful' or helpful. If the boy is saying mean things about DS, well, he is allowed to, to a certain point. Answering a quizz in a not so nice wayy still seems to me to be within his rights to freedom of speech, unfortunately, as although it was about DS, it was not directed towards him. As LS said, if you cannot see what he is saying, and it is not getting back to DS, it won't affect him.
I have recently just recently attended a course about school children, social networking & bullying and this information may surprise you.
It is a very common misconception that people can say whatever they like on their own page about someone else. Defamation does not happen to someones face. If this boy thinks that he can say whatever he likes about someone else on the internt than it’s simply an ignorance of the law. It goes beyond bullying.
Defamation occurs when someone publishes (this isn't just a printed publication but really means saying something in some medium ie. Facebook, my space, twitter, blogs, comments, to two or more people) something that tends to demean another person in the estimation of their peers.
Generally speaking, you are heading for trouble if you publish or otherwise speak about another person in such a way that your expression offends, demeans and generally undermines that person's dignity.
The social web has brought with it a sense that the Internet is a lawless free for all where anyone can say or do anything and so many people (esp teenagers) believe that they are untouchable.
There have been quite a number of cases that have been submisable in court. I will try and find some examples as I dont have my course notes at home with me.
Dianne's DS doesnt have to have him as a friend but it would be helpful to them if they have access to this boys page to see what he is writing about DS while all of this stuff with the courts is going.
I understand what you are saying, but you won't win a defamation case against me simply because I say to someone you know "BB is a crap mum and is ugly" iykwim. Defamation is a civil case, not a criminal offence.
Diane isn't bringing a defamation case, she is seeking an Intervention Order, and simply being unsavoury in answering a quiz on Facebook, unless it is threatening, is not really going to help that case as far as I can see, someone correct me if I am wrong, but unless he threatens him or performs some sort of illegal act, it is irrelevant
ETA: What it does prove is that he is not sincere, not trustworthy and Diane made the right decision in not accepting the offer posed during mediation, so any further offers of such promises should be dismissed without too much more thought.
There is nothing threating about what he posted but one of the conditions of the Undertaking is:
Publishing on the internet, by email or other electronic communication any material about the affected person(s).
To me he has breached this clause.
Regards,
Dianne
I think it is relevant if it shows the boys character and I am not saying the quiz itself, more that you want to be able to see what he is doing and saying about DS so that if he does say soemthing threatening or confesses to doing something to Dianne or DS or their home then they will have evidence for this case.
I dont think this boy is going to go away in a hurry. Teenagers can not simply 'block out' what someone is saying about them because they arent reading it or hearing it and it can cause them more harm than good if people say to them 'just ignore it'. Its not something that they are capable or mature enough to do. I would be keeping a file on this kid and including anything and everything relevent to this particular case or not because if it does get worse than Dianne has more ground to stand on.
As for what is admissable in a court, it is considered to be defaming if it falls under one of the below statements:
-An imputation which may tend to cause a person to be hated or despised, or cause them to be treated with contempt by their peers;
-The publication of material that renders a person to ridicule, even if involving humour. The publication of a photograph that contained an optical illusion giving the appearance that someone was guilty of indecent exposure is defamatory;
-Certain caricatures have been held to be defamatory. Determining what is defamatory is notoriously difficult in these matters. The distinction between artistic freedom and defamation will no doubt remain the subject of litigation."
For a defamation action to be successful, it must be established that the communication:-was published to a third person, i.e. to at least one person other than the plaintiff (person/entity defamed).
-identifies the plaintiff, for example, by name or by a reference to a small group of people, etc.
-contains a defamatory statement or imputation (whether intentionally published or not).
Oh, absolutely Diane, it certainly does breach that clause.:
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Sorry, but that statement may be true of some but the blanket statement is just plain wrong. They can block it out, and do it everyday. And those that can't shoudl be taught how to. It is a skill you will need throughout life, not just in high school.
Hun, if you were targeted by the same person - being hassled at school, at your home and then through the web and all of your friends and peers hear about it and see it (and at times let it influence their opinion of you or actions towards you), then how can you possibly block it out?
As a teacher, the worst thing that you can say to a child is 'just ignore it'. They cant. It does not solve the problem. In fact, it makes it worse as the person causing the problems gains power knowing they can get away with what they are doing without implication.
I am not saying the only path you take is ignoring it.
I was bullyed badly through primary school and high school, and you HAVE to learn to ignore it - you can't change everything, nor everyone, and the best way to not let it affect you negatively is to learn how to ignore it and box it as what it is - crap from someone who isn't important in your life, and won't be there in a few years anyway.
Been there, done that, so don't condescend to me about bullying and what it is like to be harrassed and targeted.
And they CAN ignore it, and DO ignore it. But it is not the ONLY action you have to take, but it is a huge part of how to deal with bullies. You give them power every time you cry about it, every time you get angry about it, every time you give voice to it. The only way someone can not hurt you is by you not allowing yourself to be hurt (emotionally, mentally - obviously physical assault is different) and the best way to not let yourself get hurt is to learn how to ignore the idiots in the crowd. Wish I had have had someone tell me HOW to ignore it and fight it when I was much younger than what I was when I finally figured it out.
:hug: by no means was I trying to condescend you :hug: Sorry if it came across that way. Not my intention at all.
What I am meaning to say is that as a child being victimised by another child, it is helpful to know that something is going to be done about it. That someone is there to help you and you are not on your own. This helps the child not to be consumed by what is happening in their life that shouldnt be. Yes a child needs to learn how to ignore it but this is a skill that is gradually learnt.
Dianne - It does sound like a breach of that clause and you do have a point there. If you can, seek legal advice on how to approach it with the court.
This is probably a bit off topic, but ignoring a bully doesn't always stop them and bullying comes in different forms. Bullying that is overt is easy to identify and easy to ignore, but there are other forms of bullying that are more difficult to ignore because they can't be quantified and leave you wondering if what is happening is real. This kind of bullying is much more common in the workplace but it is a valid form of bullying none the less and it is terrible because it messes with your head. It is the subtle put downs in front of work colleagues, being left off group emails, not being invited to crucial meetings, being stripped of duties or even set up to fail - all of which leave the person feeling like they are incompetent and wondering if they are underperforming. The answer may seem simple - to just get out, but because it happens slowly over time, and because it is so hard to identify what is going on, it messes with your self esteem and leaves you feeling like a failure. This form of bullying also makes you look bad in the eyes of other people, which is really hard to ignore when it is people that you are accountable to. I think that a certain element of it does also take place in schools. It is fair more sophisticated than the playground push and shove and name calling, it is psychological bullying and it messes with your self esteem. It takes a pretty strong person to not only identify that it is happening, but to come through it unscathed.
I do think kids need to learn resilience and that there are some things they can ignore, but I also think that all kids are entitled to go to school without fear. They are entitled to go each day knowing that they will be safe and that they are not going to be targetted. Ignoring is not a great strategy because even if they leave you alone, a bully will find another target and the issue has never really been dealt with. Schools need to be safe places and there is a place for identifying bullies and targetting their behaviour. That is only done through kids speaking up and saying it isn't okay.
Having said all that, I think that internet friendships with bullies are not a good idea but I think this is where the more psychological forms of bulling come into it. I don't think teenagers always have the capacity to identify what is going on and as I said earlier, it can be really hard to quanitify some of these behaviours if they aren't overt. If they are lowering other's opinions of you, then it is a form of bullying and it is not okay. I think as much as possible, try not to read stuff that others publish about you, but it does affect other people when they start to see you differently and treat you differently. Not all of those people will be bullying you, but it can mess with your self esteem and it is very dangerous. If bullying was always overtly violent, it would be much easier for people to identify it and the police could lay charges. This is all fairly new ground and there is some research going into it to try and help the laws keep up with the changing trends. They are recognising more and more that there is a lot more to bullying than most people think.