DS losing weight & EBM solution offered by clinic nurse

Our DS is 4 mths + 5 days and although he is 3cm longer than he was at 2.5 months he is 20 grams lighter. According to the nurse he should have put on approx. 500g in this period. He is in 50th percentile for length & now 10th percentile for weight.

DS is fully breastfed. The solution she suggested we try to increase his weight was to breastfeed & then offer a bottle with EBM immediately after the feed. Try this for a week and weigh in again. Trouble is, DS doesn't take a bottle or a sippy cup. We have tried the bottle four times now & no luck. Sippy cup only once so I will continue to try...my goodness it is stressful.

We are currently in the Sleep, Feed, Play routine & I asked if we changed to Sleep, Feed, Play, Feed, Play (rather than giving EBM) if that would work. She told me that the problem with doing that is that it takes DS energy to breastfeed and he is not likely to get enough milk to cover the energy expended for a second feed. She said drinking from a bottle takes DS much less energy so he will benefit more from giving him a top-up after his breastfeed.

I obviously need to increase my supply and will do anything for DS & anything to save breastfeeding & avoid formula but am wondering if I really need to express rather than feed to do this.

Does anyone have any experience or advice.

I am desperately sad that I have been starving our beautiful DS.

Also, DS has about 5 wet heavy nappies & at least one poo'y nappy per day. He is a 'regular' baby when it comes to poo's & has never had a period where he has gone for a day without a poo. He is also very alert & happy.

What a worry for you :hug:
Is your nurse an LC? If not, I would suggest you find one to get a second opinion, and/or call the ABA and see what they say (they may also be able to recommend an LC in your area if you don't know of one).
Expressing rather than feeding doesn't really make sense to me, I must admit. Babies do much better at getting milk from the breast than a pump. I'm not entirely sure about the energy argument either - is he actually weak? Aside from the weight loss, are there any other signs that he is not getting enough? How have his nappies been? His skin tone, demeanor...? These signs are just as important for determining whether they are getting enough milk. A fuller picture could give you a better idea of just how much of a problem you have here.
I'm no expert, but my first instinct would be to feed more often also. Good luck to you :hug:

It sounds as though your instincts are guiding you in the right direction. Seeing an LC may be useful for you, because by the sounds of your DS's nappies, there might be something else going on, rather than lack of milk intake. In the meantime, adding in some extra feeds certainly won't hurt.

I'm sorry you're faced with this stress, I know how hard it is. Hang in there, and have faith that your body is doing exactly what it is supposed to do :hug:

Just saw the nappy update.
Janie is very wise :)

Hi Renee

Your baby does use a little less energy feeding from a bottle than he would feeding from the breast however, if he will not take a bottle then there is no point in doing this. I think that you should give sleep, feed, play, feed, play a go. Trying to force your baby to take a bottle or a sippy cup will only cause him more stress and thus cause him to burn more energy.

Another thing to consider is:-
Has your baby become more active recently? If so this could explain the reason for the lack of weight gain. I would not be overly concerned at this stage. See how things go over the next month.

Hi,

You won't hear me say this often, but the information you got from your nurse is rubbish - and alan, I have to take you to task about bottle feeding taking less energy than breastfeeding. I have NEVER seen any evidence for that - but you are welcome to send it over. Babies are physiologically designed to breastfeed. when they are breastfeeding their heartrate is lower, the mother regulates their temperature and they use less energy.
Milk supply is boringly simple. The more you feed, the more your baby takes the more you make. Except in rare cases of unusual medical conditions this works every time. I wonder, how many feeds is your little one having in 24 hours? 8-12 feeds at this age and beyond is NORMAL.
Renee, your plan - feed, play, feed sleep is a top one. More feeds = more milk intake. Your baby may never be designed to be on the top percentiles - but more frequent feeding will mean he gets more milk and he grows.
You are NOT starving your baby - this is one of the cruelest things mothers can be told, or that mothers believe of themselves. We are given so much conflicting messages in our society. Are you feeding on cue? When your baby looks like he wants it?
Get back to us and let us know how you are going

DS is a very alert, happy and beautiful boy. People have always & still comment on how alert he is. Nappies are good. He is pale but so are DH & I.

I saw a LC last week because I have issues with blocked ducts...no solution to this one but have learned to identify earlier & clear blockage at nipple as soon as it appears

I am going to phone her tomorrow and talk to her about what the best way forward is. This is all very stressful but I am determined to continue with breastfeeding so long as DS is healthy.

You sound like a very on-the-ball mum Renee :) I feel positive for you that you and your son will breastfeed for as long as you mutually desire. It's good that you have an LC that you trust, I hope she can help you tomorrow. Let us know how things go, will you?

:

---

I wonder, how many feeds is your little one having in 24 hours? 8-12 feeds at this age and beyond is NORMAL.
Renee, your plan - feed, play, feed sleep is a top one. More feeds = more milk intake. Your baby may never be designed to be on the top percentiles - but more frequent feeding will mean he gets more milk and he grows.
You are NOT starving your baby - this is one of the cruelest things mothers can be told, or that mothers believe of themselves. We are given so much conflicting messages in our society. Are you feeding on cue? When your baby looks like he wants it?
Get back to us and let us know how you are going

---

He feeds 6 times in a 24 hour period. I feed him when he is hungry....generally when he wakes up he feeds & he wakes up once during the night plus three sleeps in the day and then an additional feed before bed at night. Occassionally I feed him if he wont settle after about half an hour of trying to get him to settle but this is not often.

It may be worth noting that both DH & I are slim people & DH is tall and slim.

I think - and someone correct me if I am wrong - told me that BF babies put on weight slower than bottle fed babies. I know that DD2 who was BF had a much slower weight gain that DD1 who was bottle fed. I also worried about my supply because of this and went by the theory that every time DD2 opened her mouth to cry - I gave her the bb, or if she had the hiccups, or was tired or needed comfort.

I also did baby led solids or baby led weaning and at about 4 months let her play with food. Occasionally she got it into her mouth and tasted it, but she really enjoyed massaging it behind her ear :rolleyes: once she started eating the solids I found her weight finally did start increasing, but that was at about 7 months.

In the meantime, believe in yourself your bb and your LO will be fine :hug:

Barb
When I first read your post my thoughts were “of course it does. We all know that. I remember it from when I worked in SCN”. So I decided to do a search and send you the info. And what did I find? You are right. All the recent research shows that there is no significant difference.
Thank you for correcting me

Hi, Renee,
As my old aunty Daphne said "you won't make rats from mice" - so your baby probably won't be at that top end of the weight scale. But, you will be amazed to find that he will put on more weight if you feed him more. (weightgain is highest in the first 3 mnths - you would expect 150+ g per week - but after 3 mnths 70-100 would be the norm) 6 feeds per day is very minimal - not even I would gain weight on 6 feeds per day. Never be afraid to use the breast as your first line strategy when settling - there is a whole "cult" around not settling a baby by feeding, but breastfeeding is the natural way of baby settling. You will be surprised to find that you can find may opportunities for a feed - let him have a cluster of feeds in the evening if he won't feed. And many mums find the more they feed the more they *want* to feed - and this is a good thing. I see babies like yours at my clinic every day of the week - and it's the simplest problems to overcome. Unfortunately the info your nurse gave you will result in premature weaning if followed.
And Alan....thankyou.

Thank you all!

I spoke to my LC this morning & she said the same as Barb & others...breastfeed! She said if over time he still wasn't gaining weight I might need to go down the expressing route but it really shouldn't be necessary. She said the only way that he would use more energy from an additional feed would be if I kept him up longer to feed him....I told her that was not my intention. She is also keen for me to keep in touch & let her know how we get on which is very kind & generous of her.

My plan is to feed when DS wakes from his sleep and then feed again about an hour later. He currently stays up for around 2 hours so I am not worried about feeding him to sleep as we still have some time after the second feed. We did it this morning and he fed hungrily both times...hooray. After the second feed we played a while & then read a book and then he self settled for his sleep.

When he gets up we will do the same again. In essence this means he will get three more feeds a day making a total of nine feeds.

He did bring up some of the milk from his second feed - I was feeling a bit stressed about that but I guess if his tummy is full it is full. He fed well & now I just have to continue and see what the scales say.

I love breastfeeding, I have had a lot of problems with it (blocked ducts & Mastitis) but I feel I am on top of them now & I love the closeness and naturalness of it. I despair over the thought of not being about to sufficiently nourish my baby & will do whatever I need to to ensure he is healthy.

I will post again on Monday after his weight check.

Renee, it sounds to me like you know exactly what you're doing!
A few extra feeds and that'll probably do the trick. At any rate, your baby is most definitely not starving!

BTW, if you compare the charts in the standard baby books they hand out with teh WHO charts, you'll see that fully breastfed babies tend to put on more weight than ff ones in teh first few months. However the curves seem to level out more later on and they're often lighter at 6-12 months (this is based on my rough comparison).

Do exactly what you are doing. My DD was on the 90th percentile for weight when she was born, it dropped to around the 3rd - 10th percentile for weight by 4 months. She was put down as FTT. I was so worried I started seeing the mchn every 1 - 2 weeks. I thought she must not be getting enough milk and the mchn encouraged me to add formula. At 6 months we added formula by 7 months she was fully on formula because she refused the breast. And I didn't bother expressing cause I thought my milk must of been crap. The things that went through my head, I've been starving my baby, docs are going to come take my girl away, she is going to fade away, I felt like the worst mum in the world. I seen a pediatrician who said she was fine but it was too late. She is now 12 months and still sits around the 3rd - 10th percentile. The formula didn't put extra weight on her. When I took her to her 12 month check, she is still on the same percentile and the nurse (the same one we seen before) said her weight is great. Why it the same but great now and was terrible before. I am so angry about it. She is the size she is meant to be, its her and she is perfect. I cry when I think about it. I missed out on feeding my baby and it shouldn't have happened how it did. With my next baby I will be taking it to see the dr for its checks not the mchn cause she made me feel like crap.

You are doing a great job. Your DS sounds perfect. :hug:

Wow Yowie, that's terrible! :hug:
I'm so sorry you were let down so badly by someone who was supposed to be offering support and guidance.

Yowie, Thank you for sharing with us. I am so sorry that you were made to feel inadequate and not given the support you needed. I know how easy it is to doubt what you are doing is right & I think it is amplified by the fact that you love your baby so much & want to do everything 100% right (although I am not quite sure this is ever possible).

I took DS back to the clinic yesterday for a weight check and he has increased by 40grams since Thursday. The nurse said Ã*t wasn't as much as she would have expected but agreed it was a move in the right direction. She said she was at a real loss as DS is so lively and alert & looks healthy in every way. I have decided to take DS to the Paediatrician to make sure he is okay so I had to go to the Dr today to get a referral. She checked DS over, said he has a good covering of fat, good muscle tone, checked his heart and eyes, head/neck strength and DS had a good chatter with her...she said in her view he is a perfectly healthy baby but did agree that since he has crossed percentiles for weight that it is a good idea to go to the Paediatrician. We have an appt. in three weeks.

She also said that given his father's build (tall & slim) it is not surprising that he is thining out. And she said she didn't think I needed to continue with the additional feeds if he was alert & happy with what he was getting before I started with the additional feeds.

I have also looked at DH's baby book which has some of his weights in it and his weight shows a similar pattern with �H being born in the 75th percentile (based on my blue book charts), by the 3rd month he is between 50-75th percentile, 4th month 50th percentile, 5th month mid-way between 25-50th percentile, 7th month 25th percentile & by the eigth month 10th percentile. The pattern is much the same for DS but it is just happening earlier. I don't know if DH was breast or bottle fed & both of his parents have died so there is noone to ask.

Now...I am a bit confused. He was a happy baby on his old feeding pattern (set by him, not me) and he is regurgitating a lot of what he takes on the additional feeds as soon as the feed is finished. My thoughts are that I will continue the additional feeds until the end of this week which should give my milk supply some time to increase if it is needed...if not I guess it will decrease again according to how DS is feeding. Problem is....I've created a 'milk monster'.....DS now expects this second feed so I need to wait until DH is here to help with taking it away; I need the support.

It is a very tricky situation and I am still not entirely convinced of how I will handle it but I think what I have written is what I will do...not to say I wont change my mind between now & then. I will also be calling the LC tonight just to let her know and see what she thinks.

Renee, that's great news that your boy has put weight on. It sounds like he is just following his own growth pattern.
If he's happy to have the feeds, then perhaps just follow his lead for the time being? Talking to the LC is a good idea.
All the best

Regurgitating or possetting is not something to worry about in itself. Small babies sometimes have a weaker valve at the top of their tummies and it lets a little bit out. It could be from being full, but it could just be from the way he moves, lies, you hold him, etc. My DD possetted until about 7-8 mths. If he is taking the extra feed, by all means keep offering. If he isn't interested, then don't bother. Sometimes a bf is a great way to help him wind down, as well. He probably won't bf if he isn't hungry, but he'll only take what he needs. It might help him settle and he likes it. Who can blame him?!

Sounds like you've done a great job with him. I actually didn't bother taking my DD as a baby to MHCN check-ups after the first couple of months. We saw the GP for all regular vax and I was happy she was thriving. The weight on the scales is only one indicator of a healthy baby and it's notorious for being used to stress mothers out!

Hi,

Great news re the weight. If he wants the extra feed, why not let him have it? He was on a very low number of feeds previously (6) the extra won't hurt him and is pretty normal at that age

I spoke to DH about the extra feeds when he came home & he said the obvious....if he asks then feed him if he doesn't then don't. I read in another Post how sometimes the obvious is not so clear when you are so involved. I spoke to my LC & she agreed.

DS asked for the extra feed once yesterday but we were in the car and by the time we arrived home he was happy & calm & playful, we played a while & then he had his regular 1.5 hour sleep in the middle of the day.

He ended up with one extra feed yesterday as he woke early & slept a bit shorter in the morning (plus without the extra feeds he is staying up 2 hours rather than 2.5 hours). Then, he didn't wake up in the night for a feed. I got him out of bed at 5am and fed him and although he fed he didn't feed like he was a hungry baby but it rather seemed like he was feeding because it was there. I just didn't feel like I wanted to leave him to sleep all the way through without a night feed...I would have fed him earlier but I didn't wake up.

I don't think he was getting a lot out of the additional feeds but I do think now that my milk supply has increased...esp in my right breast. My left breast doesn't seem to fill up as much & I think this has to do with it being blocked for about 4 days a couple of weeks ago.

In terms of comfort for DS....he loves being on the breast but he is not a baby to fall asleep and stay asleep or relaxed...take him off & he gets very upset. Some days he doesn't detach himself & I have to take him off (I usually let him comfort for a few minutes first). In my earlier feeding days when I couldn't tell if he was feeding or not I would be sat feeding him (or what I thought was feeding) for 1.5 hours. He loves being there - doesn't like leaving.

The LC also mentioned last night that if DS is reaching development milestons & his head is maintaining constant growth these are the most important factors; it means his brain is receiving sufficient nutrition. She has met DS so knows he is alert & happy and I checked head growth chart & it has maintained a steady growth & he is meeting milestones according to the information I have.

I now need to trust that we are doing the right thing & not stress about it....need to keep the good milk flowing!!!

We have another weight check/measurement appt on Monday so will see how things are going then.

Often the obvious is only obvious to those with outside perspective :hug:
Don't worry about how your breasts feel - they don't need to fill up. They make more milk when emptied frequently.
Babies love being at the breast - it's a great place to be and no wonder :) Somtimes they'll accept a cuddle instead (do you use a sling or something like that?)
sounds like you're doing just fine

I have been feeding DS additional feeds when I think he wants them and this has increased his total feeds to seven a day on average (some days 6.5, other days 8....today about 11).

We went to the clinic for another weight & measurement and he has only gained 40 grams since last week. That makes him 63cm long, 5.74kg with a head circumference of 41.5cm. The nurse said this is very concerning as he has dropped another percentile for weight so we are very worried.

We have made an appt with the Paediatrician but it is still more than two weeks away & his offices are closed for the next week (school holidays & he has five children). We have a GP appt tomorrow afternoon to ask more questions about what could be causing the very slow weight gain and I am meeting the LC tomorrow at the hospital so we can talk & she is going to lend me a supply line & show me how to use it so we can get more breastmilk into DS as quickly as possible to try and get his weight increasing.

I am so upset & can't help thinking there is something more than not enough milk going on. I have to try & stop thinking this way but it is just so upsetting.

He's still gaining, so this is good news :hug:
I'm a little confused that you're getting such conflicting feedback - one week a small gain is good, and everything else looks fine, and the next everything's wrong again.

I'm sorry that you have this stress - I hope you can get some answers soon

Hi, Renee,

It is really concerning when you see "that" look on the nurses face. (Much more concerning that the actually rather good 40g in a week). You don't need a supply line. They are fabulous in many circumstances - but I don't think it's warranted in your case. Go back to what you were doing a couple of weeks ago - feed, play, feed sleep. I think you have a very easy going and undemanding baby who is happy to fall in with your plans. When you fed him ore, he was happy to go along with that (and it did great things for his growth) but he's not one who will demand it. So, make sure you offer it - frequently. If he feeds frequently your breasts will not feel full - but they are doing their job beautifully. At this age (I think he's over 4 mnths now) you would only expect him to gain 70 or so g per week. It's normal to drop percentiles (up or down) in the first months.

Hello Barb, Thank you for your advice. I will be discussing with the LC when I meet with her today what I actually need. I was thinking the same as you and it is so true about how my breasts feel when I am constantly feeding...constantly 'empty' and I do question whether he is getting milk & then he throws up & I wonder if that was all he got.

The nurses are so concerned because DS has crossed another percentile so he is now in the 50th percentile for head & length but the 3rd percentile for weight. He is around 4 1/2 months now and since 8 weeks he has dropped almost 4 percentiles. We don't know if he gained some since 8 weeks & then dropped or has just not gained any as I didn't have him weighed for about six weeks until the weighing that started this concern. The reason I had him weighed then was because DH thought he was a bit thin.

Since we found out about DS's weight and started increasing the feeds he has been posseting a lot more. He did this as a little baby (approx 1 - 8 weeks) but then it really reduced with just a bit now & again. In the past two weeks he has become a constant possetor again. There are a couple of things can think of that have caused this:

1. Us noticing it more because keeping milk down is paramount - although the milk on the floor & change in clothes throughout the day discredits this in some ways but it is definitely more stressful for us when he does it now.
2. My milk supply has increased plus he is getting more from additional feeds & his stomach is just not big enough (yet) to accomodate. When I feed him in the middle of the night he feeds hungrily off first (very full) breast & then does not feed well on second breast. I try to encourage him to feed but he is not interested....I tickle his chin and burp him and put him back on but the response is the same....I guess he is full. I know he is not getting a full feed because milk still squirts out when I hand express and my breast is softer but not 'empty' soft. He doesn't posset after night feeds.
3. He was getting regular Network Chiropractic treatment & one of the things being addressed was posseting - at his last appt DS was too upset and didn't have a treatment so he hasn't been treated for about one month. I have an appt today which I will go to if it is in DS's uptime but I will give him my appt & see if that helps

I am finding it hard not to think there is something else going on with him & have to stop these thoughts. All other signs are of a healthy baby - he just needs more or the good stuff!

:hug: Renee, possetting is just a sign that the valve at the top of his tummy isn't as strong as it will be soon enough. My DD possetted until around 7mths. It's like the valve lets out a bit of the stomach contents with a change in position, when he's full, rolls over, etc. The amount he brings up will always look like more than it actually is. It isn't anything to be concerned about. It's what's known as 'happy chucking'. Just keep a cloth handy to wipe up! Possetting is not an indication of anything serious. It doesn't mean he hasn't kept a feed down and you need to be concerned about how much he's had. He will take what he needs, what comes back up is much, much less than it looks like. If he is still hungry he'll let you know.

At DS's age weight gain does start to slow down. What are you and your DH like build-wise? Anyone tall and skinny in the family? DS's weight will be correcting somewhat to what he's genetically designed to be, his birth weight is not necessarily the same. What about his health generally? If he's happy, healthy and meeting other milestones then I'd discount the slower weight gain (and a gain is still a gain, btw). If he's grown length wise, then he's obviously still growing. Is he being weighed on the same scales every time?

Please don't panic, if you weren't worried before that magical number on the scales came up, then it's more than likely you have nothing to worry about. MHCNs can be notorious for unnecessarily making mothers worry about their milk supply by tsk-tsking over the scales. If everything else with him is good, then you're doing a wonderful job. Add in a few extra feeds and go with your instincts.

PS FWIW, and I know every baby is different, but my DD was always well ahead on the height charts compared to weight. I rarely had her weighed, mostly just at vax with the GP, because I felt she was doing fine (seriously, what did mothers do before we gave them scales and clinics to go to every other week??). Since her birth weight was also low there was never any %age drop, but the difference you talk about was certainly there - over 50% for height, under 10% for weight. Still is, she's a pre-schooler now and weighs less than children who are inches shorter. It's just her build, and she's just the same as her Dad (and a bit like me, I'm quite light). She eats like a horse and is never sick. Trust your instincts.

Jennifer, Thank you - your words are reassuring. It is just so hard not to worry about it.

DH is tall & slim (6'2" & around 75kg), I am short & slimish (5'4" & around 58kg) but have a solid build whereas DH has a slim build. DH did a similar thing around the 7th - 8th month where his weight dropped back. I have no records for me but my Mum says I doubled my weight in first 3 months - I was bottle fed.

Renee, just for reference, my son started on the 90th percentile for weight at birth, and was on the 25th by 4 months and around 12th by 12 months. He has remained fairly steady for height and HC, however.
Sometimes babies just follow their own growth patterns

Hi,
The spewing is really of no consequence - babies spew and thrive. It always looks a lot more than it is. Better just to fill that little tummy up again. I'm another one here whose babies started out big and quickly progressed to the bottom percentiles. They are all fine. And yes, I worried about it - more than I needed I now realise.

I just wanted to share my experiences.

My DS was BF for 2 weeks then put on formula. He was always on the 5th percentile for weight and 50% for height and 3rd for head circumference.

He is now 2.5 yrs old, 12.5kg (5th percentile) and TALL......clearly healthy, plenty of wees, regular poos, eats well, is happy, sleeps etc.....

My DD is BF and has been since the start. She is on the 5th for weight, 55th for height and 5th for head circumference. Again, she is clearly healthy, well covered, happy etc and again TALL.....

I have no problem with this - percentiles are not telling of the child - the child is ITMS?

I think it's more important how you feel as a mother.....is everything seemingly ok? If you didn't know his percentiles, would you be concerned about something to take him to a Paediatrician??

Go with your gut instinct honey - charts are there to reference......some kids just don't "fit" where the Dr's want them to. It doesn't mean they aren't doing well xxx

I am so upset & confused I don't know what I think. I looked at the growth charts again & if his weight continues to gain at 40grams per week (as per last week) then he will be a long way below any percentile chart by the time he is 5 months & grossly underweight by 6 months. He has a thin body & this would feel okay if he was gaining enough each week to maintain his current stature but he is not.

I tried the supply line yesterday and he took 120ml but we only fed one side because we had an appt to go to & I didn't have time to finish the feed - had to feed him again when we arrived home & he wasn't very interested (too tired I think). We did it again this morning & I put the supply line on the second breast (the one that doesn't have as much milk); he fed an additional 90ml and seemed very happy....he is normally happy but seemed ever more so.

We saw the GP yesterday who said he couldn't see any reason but was very concerned about his weight & arranged an emergency appt with a Paediatrician for tomorrow a.m.

The only things I am certain on (and I may have a battle with DH on these) are that I do NOT want to give DS Formula or start him on solids yet. I feel very strongly that breastmilk is what he needs & if it is the case that he is not getting enough then I will do what I can to increase supply & get more into him. I have read somewhere that acupuncture can help with milk supply - I will contact my acupuncturist to discuss if needed.

I am going to continue to feed him using the supply line today & then see what happens tomorrow. All I have to do now is try not to worry & enjoy my beautiful DS.

I'm just wondering - what happens if you throw away all the "system" and just feed him as often as you possibly can.
At that age my DS had a pattern like this:
feed at 7am, sleep until noon, feed at 2pm, 4pm, 6pm, 7pm , 8pm, 9pm, 10pm, 11pm, midnight, sleep until 7.
I'm not suggesting that you adopt this pattern - just trying to say that they can be so very very different, so maybe trying something wierd would help. Whenever he is awake, offer him a boob!

Also wondering - if he has a dummy then take it away for a few days and you be his dummy instead. That way any sucking he does is contributing to getting fed!

Let us know how you go with the paediatrician. Make sure you reiterate how you are do not want to feed him formula and your preference to bf. TBH if there is anything going on with him, I'm guessing you'd want to know, since he's thrived on your bm up until now, rather than be given a 'quick fix' with formula, which in all likelihood won't make any difference and will definitely affect your bfing relationship.

GL hun. :hug:

We had our appt with the Paediatrician this morning. Thankfully he said that our DS is healthy & that there does not appear to be any underlying condition resulting in his failure to gain weight (or Failure to Thrive).

He did paint a pretty grim picture if we did not get more calories into DS though. He said that it might not be that he is not getting enough but just that he is not keeping enough down...DS made a good display of vomiting when we were there. It seems the more breastmilk I put into him the more he vomits & the more he poos (4 x yesterday, 2 x today so far).

He was pro-breastfeeding which is good BUT he did recommend starting with solids in addition to breastfeeding. I just want my boy to be well & DH is 100% behind this so we are going to try.

Me...I feel upset but mostly angry:
Angry because I cannot adequately nourish my child
Angry because my GP told me to stop additional feeds
Angry because I listened to my GP
Angry because DS is 4.5 months & I am going to shove a spoon into his mouth with something I don't truelly agree with is hopefully going to help him gain some weight
Angry because I am too scarred about what might happen if I don't try what was recommended.
Angry because it has been such a hard struggle (6 yrs TTC, 2 x failed IVF, 2 x babies who didn't make it, 41 wks of morning sickness, 29 hours of labour, mastitis, blocked ducts....now this).

Lucky that we have a healthy DS but it is hard to see the wood for the trees at the moment.

That's great to hear that he's been pronounced so healthy! You are obviously doing a good job of nourishing him. :hug:

What sort of solids is he recommending? I ask as the typical things you start on are not very high calorie (ie, less than breastmilk in fact).

Hey Renee,

I had similar trouble with both mine. Well, DS did lose weight and I did have to comp feed for a few months, but it all came good.

More recently with DD, she just stopped putting on weight at about 3 months and she stayed the same weight for a couple more months. We had a paed check for things and it all came back clear. We determined she was taking the 'right' amount of milk from me (by output and the weigh, feed, weigh again method) so paed was all happy with that and referred us to a dietician. In desperation, I have to say I did try topping her up with EBM and formula for a week but it made no difference whatsoever. After speaking to the dietician, she said that there are just some kids who are small but it was still important to get the calories in her as she'll need the extra energy for moving, crawling, etc.

We stuck with the breastfeeding, ditched the top ups after about a week and started solids at 5.5 months. I wanted to wait until 6 but I figured she obviously needs food so I thought that was better alternative than giving formula since she was only a couple weeks off starting anyway. We dived straight into solids - 3 meals a day, high calorie meals like meats, pastas, casseroles. You'd traditionally start with veggies and fruit but they aren't very high in calories. The dietician also got us to add more fat into her diet by adding olive or canola oil or a teaspoon of salt reduced margarine to her food for the extra calorie content. For us, this worked a treat and she gained 1kg in one month and is still slowly creeping back up to where she started on those graphs. At almost 9 months, she's about 6.8kg, still tiny but healthy and happy. Oh and she is no longer a chucky baby (she did chuck quite a bit in the early days, not huge ones, just frequent ones).

I'm not sure where you're at with your DS and if he's losing weight or just plateaued out. If he's losing weight, then he may need the top ups and there are ways to do this without compromising your supply. If he's just plateaued out has he started moving around a bit? Wriggling on the floor? Rolling over? DD just couldn't keep still when she was on the floor so used lots of energy. No one could explain for sure why she just stopped putting on weight.

Keep perservering, you're doing a great job. Don't be afraid of not doing something you aren't comfortable with. When I took DD to the hospital, all the senior paed said to me was "you don't have enough milk, put her on the bottle" that was that and sent me home with a referral to another paediatrician. I never followed her advice and I'm glad I didn't because DD & I are still breastfeeding perfectly fine. They didn't come and chase me down for not doing it. It was hard not to doubt my supply in those first few months but then I realised the more I try to fill her tiny tummy, it's just not going to fit and she's going to bring out the excess either top or bottom!

The solids might actually make his tummy a bit less runny and help reduce the chucking too.
And remember that many, many "solids" can be around half EBM. Try things like vegies mashed with EBM or cooked rice soaked in it.

We had a different problem - when I went back to work my 9 month old bub would not drink much from a bottle or cup. DH discovered that 1 weetbix can sop up a hundred ml of EBM, and some of his "feeds" were that way!

The Paediatrician said the regular rice cereal which I did for a few days mixed with breastmilk. I figured that rice is not very high in calories so today I have given him mashed up avocado. He seemed to quite like it, I started with a bit on my finger & then on the spoon. Not sure what will come next but avocado it is for the next few days.

DS seems quite keen on eating from a spoon. He opens his mouth & leans forward. He does push about half of what he takes back out again but I figure he is doing very well at 4.5 months to be even taking in half of what I give him. He did vomit up some of the avocado this morning but I guess that is just what he does. I am trying not to stress about that. We have an appt with the Chiropractor today who is trying to help with he vomiting so fingers crossed it will reduce.

I am no longer comp feeding with the supply line for two reasons: 1. it made DS a lazy feeder: because milk was easier to get through the supply line when it was not there he fussed & grizzled & didn't suck properly 2. Even if it had been good for us I can't express enough milk. So far the most I have managed in one day is 120ml. The volume is increasing (70ml today so far) but not enough to comp feed. Just enough to mix with rice cereal or any other foods that may need it.

I am feeding DS twice in every up time where I can and we have started to put him to bed about an hour earlier at night which means he wakes up twice for feeds and my milk supply is good in the early hours when he feeds plus he doesn't vomit at night and he feeds very efficiently. I am just trying to get as much milk into him as I can and build my supply at the same time.

Sometimes it gets a bit much but mostly it is okay and I would do anything for DS.

DH wants me to stop 'killing' myself and put DS on formula but every time he mentions it I think he is sorry he did. He is just worried about me. The thing is, and some of you will appreciate this, most of the time it is good or even great but now & again the thought of DS being underweight or my milk not being enough or just being exhausted makes me breakdown & cry...DH thinks this is terrible & wants to fix it. For me it is just a stress relief..opening the valve to relieve the pressure & half an hour later things are great again.

We have an appt to be weighed & measured again tomorrow so hopefully there will be more good news!

Renee, I think you're doing great and I'm glad you've found a kind of groove with the new 'routine'. I hope the scales validate your efforts :hug: Good luck for tomorrow.