sleep 4mth old

Hi there

Sorry if this is the wrong area I couldn't seem to find one on sleep!
Just wanted to post to get some help/ideas/sanity on what to do about my little girl
I'll give you the history first
Sleeping was going really well but we had a hanging bassinet and had to rock her to sleep each time, except in the mornings as she would usually just play and fall asleep on her own. We were also wrapping, which she would fight like crazy but then it seemed to work by lately she had been out of the wrap by morning.

When she got to 16 weeks all of a sudden over one night everything stopped working. She got hysterical, would punch her way out of the wrap and as soon as we would start rocking she would start screaming more. In the end we put her into a sleeping bag which she hadn't used before as we were just unable to wrap and finally after 3 hours she went to sleep exhausted. This has now been going on for over a week. We do have a rough evening routine involving a shower with dad and quiet time. She used to go to sleep for the night any time between about 8:30 and 10:30 and would sleep usually til 5-7am which was great. We also would use shhhhing as well.

Anyway over this week we have been trying everything. We have now moved put her in the cot instead as it seemed every time her head hit the bassinet she would know we wanted her to sleep so would go nuts (she is in our room).
Now I have discovered that she does tend to have a cry before she goes to sleep as she started doing it in the pram so during the day sleeps I have found I can leave her to have a cry and usually she falls asleep on her own, this doesn't appear to work at night as she gets hysterical and we aren't comfortable with leaving her for long as this stage.
The other thing is I have started doing a basic Tizzie Hall routine as DD was following this roughly anyway during the day. Discovered that she does need a pram nap at the 4:30 mark whereas before we would try and keep her up so we could do all her night time routines like shower etc. So yesterday we took her out, she had a good 30 min sleep in the pram and then we got her down (with some struggles) by 7pm. But she is awake again within the hour and then we had to bring her to the lounge to calm down (she wouldn't calm in the bedroom) have a feed and then take her back to bed when she was tired. Then I shhhh'd and patted (which didn't used to work) and she calmed but stayed awake - I ended up doing this for an hour and a half and then she started crying again and it was time for another feed.
So you know her naps are usually good, she wakes a 7am then goes back to sleep an hour later (we have been trying to extend this to 9am and are just about there) then up for two hours and back down for about an hour and a half and now we do the walk at 4:30. Sorry this is so long, I am just completely lost as to what is going on and how to deal with this. thanks for your time

sorry forgot to mention, I am breast feeding at this stage still. I have had so many problems with thrush, mastitis and vasospasm and was aiming to make it to four months which I have done and was going to try for another few weeks but I'm really struggling.

btw, happy to hear if anyone has similar issues and no solution! always helps to know you aren't in it on your own

if you had a similar issue and it went away thats the best news I could hear!!

this has been happening now for one and a half weeks

:(

Hi there and Welcome to BB

You might not get a lot of positivity by using the TH routine, but, if that is what you want to do, then go for it.

I just wanted to ask, how are you feeding her? My DD is about the same age as yours and is breastfed, whenever she is unsettled I just latch her on to comfort her. I don't really follow a routine, I am just going with the flow. I feed my DD to sleep on the spare bed, and when she is asleep, I go into my own bed. I have not yet had to deal with prolonged crying during the night since she was a newborn, but I wouldn't let her cry anyway....just feed.

Is this your first baby? As time goes on you may realise that nothing is really 'routine' (by the book anyway) so perhaps having a bit more of an open mind and just dealing with things as they change might work better for you. There are always going to be good times and bad ones with littlies.

So really, what I am saying is, what do you want to happen with her? Do you want her to sleep through the night and stay there? If that is the case, it just may or may not happen, you just have to try everything you can you think is right for you and your DD. They are all different. Everyone will be going through it at different stages....Trust me!

HI there

Thanks for your reply
I may not have come across correctly sorry! My main concern is my DDs wellbeing, and having her so upset about going to sleep is really hard on us. Especially when she was getting so hysterical for so long and taking ages to calm down. I feed her all the time she gets upset but sometimes she won't latch on because she's too upset. So we have made a bit of progress in that I now have been able to calm her, firstly I was using my finger to suck on as she doesn't like dummies (this is after I have literally just fed her til full and put her in bed). But as soon as I take the finger out she starts balling again. Last night patting and shhhhing seemed to finally work but she didn't go to sleep at the end of it. When I say we leave her to cry its for no longer than 2-3 mins as we just stand outside the door and if she starts to get more upset rather than calm down we go straight in. I also think the TH routine is not good but as I had the routine and realised that DD was actually only wanting to eat every four hours at the start of the day and her sleeping was quite similar to the routine I thought it was worth a try (as of yesterday only!) but only lightly ie; she usually wakes around 7ish so I just go with her there - the only thing I am enforcing is a slightly longer wake time after that first feed as i'm worried that thats why she can't get to sleep until really late. Please don't think that I am wanting this to suit my lifestyle, if she was happy to go to bed late that would be fine but she is so over tired by the time it gets later and really grizzly and upset so she definitely seems to need to go to sleep earlier. In the end I think she only falls asleep from shear exhaustion.

Hope that makes sense :)

:hug: she is only still so young...the "recomend" control cryiong for babies over 6 months...can I suggest you maybe take a look at Pinky Mckays sleeping like a baby it ha some wonderful tips.
Just try to follow your inxtincts and keep her close. Good luck hun it gets better xxxx

Hi there

We haven't intentionally tried controlled crying, I don't even know the process as I'm not interested in doing that especially not at her age. We have only walked out of our room at the start of a sleep and don't continue, I guess the only reason we have done it is that it seems that I might be a distraction to her with patting and shhhing and if I leave for a short time she calms and falls asleep. Mind you this is only day time. I have Pinkys book, in fact I have been so close to calling her many times but can't afford to do it! unfortunately dd doesn't like wrapping anymore and doesn't like been in a sling either but we keep trying! I do end up feeding her quite regularly at night and it ends up being every hour sometimes - if she falls asleep we stay there for awhile and then try and put her in bed, sometimes she wakes and cries but if its really late she will occasionally stay asleep but often wakes shortly after. btw we are still really lucky as she sleeps for a long time when she goes down but its just breaking my heart trying to figure out why she is so tired but not wanting to sleep

There's already been great advice given, and I wish I had a magic answer, but I don't. The 4 - 6 month mark for us was really hard, and apparently around 4 months it's very common for bubs to go through sleep regression. It does pass though, maybe not straight away, but it will all calm down again. We let our DD completely lead the way, have never had a set routine, and it just fell into place a few weeks ago. It takes alot of patience and lack of sleep in some cases though, I struggled too. I found The No Cry Sleep Solution a great book for some tips and pointers, but alot of the time it was simply cuddles and BF that worked, and I love the way that book says that's okay too.
Congrats on keeping up the breastfeeding - it sounds like you've gone through alot so you've done really well there. With your bub unsettled at the moment her main point of comfort and security will be at your breast, so if you feel you can keep going through the rough patch it really could be the best move you could make. Your milk is the one comforting constant at the moment for her, when this wide new world is spinning her out a bit.
It does get easier, it's just sometimes hard to see that when the here and now can be so tough :hug:

btw thanks for all the best wishes
we are really finding it hard and my hubby doesn't handle it well so having a crying baby and a crying hubby feeling like he is a failure is pretty hard to handle
she is a fantastic little girl and happy during the day

thanks for that Human Bean! Yeah the feeding has been really tough but I really wanted to keep going so just keep giving myself short goals which keeps up my sanity. Will keep trying to stick it out :)

It does help to know that its normal for bubs to do this, I guess my fear is that while this is going on we might end up doing all the wrong things and make it worse
I understand at the end of the day only we can know her the best so we will keep trying to help her out and hopefully she calms down soon :) thanks for the book advice too might try and check that one out

In my 3 years (almost) of motherhood I have learned that there are no wrongs. As long as you are doing what feels right for you and you don't take to heart what others say. Your DD will get through this...as will your DH, just keep on keeping on and all will be good. BB is a great place for advice too (and knowing you arent alone) so make sure you stick around ;)

I don't know if you have heard of the wonderweeks. They basically are weeks where babies experience a big developmental leap. This really upsets them because their little world has been turned upside down. Just google 'wonderweek 19' to find out what she is learning and how you can help her make the adjustment. This fussy period can last from week 15 til week 19 (calculated from due date). Hang in there, hopefully she'll calm down for you soon!

Hey,
Just wanted to add that the 4 month mark can be a doozy. If you google "4 month sleep regression" you'll see a rake of stuff on it.

Also, there is a section here on sleep - if you go to Parenting, there are some sub forums in there - loads of us are always posting about our bubby's sleep!! Lots of lovely book reviews and fantastic advice over there on previous threads.

Also, have you thought about co-sleeping? It can really help settle bubby down.

It's hard hey? :hug: Sounds like you're doing a wonderful job though.

Sue

I haven't read the replies, I just wanted to chime in.... 4 month sleep regression, google it! Smack on four months my sleeping angel day and night was hysterical for hours through the night, not even a feed would help her. I feel your pain! Check out the baby sleep site, they have a bit of info on this regression period. But the main thing is to keep the rhythm the same and she will come through, if you start new habits like walking the halls at night it will start a hole new realm of sleep challenges. Our regression period was over pretty quick, and once I realised it was a phase it was easier to see her through the night and know that she will go back to sleeping again. Apparently there is one at eight months too... guh!
Go well

She is not starting to teeth yet is she?
Chewing, drooling, madly sucking things?
Lots of bubbas get their bottom 2 teeth around this age.
Pain relief may be worth a try...

Just a thought, maybe you could try feeding her more often in the day? You say she's feeding every 4 hrs? I think my DD never went more than 3hrs b/w feeds until she was well over one. Obviously all babies are different. But I was thinking maybe if you fed her more during the day she would not want so much at night. Does she have a cluster feed before bed?

How is it you are settling her for sleep? Are you sitting beside her and patting/shhhing?? I found that never worked for my DD either. She was a snuggly little thing and just wanted cuddles. So I had to hold her and rock her and sing to her, then put her down when she was asleep.

I never worried about routines or self-settling or anything like that either. I found, the more I relaxed and just went with it the happier I was. The more we tried to change her sleep habits, the more stressed we were. Cosleeping was great for getting some extra sleep too.

:hug:

Hi there and :comfort: Just wanted to say that DS has been the same. It really hit me for 6 as I didn't know a thing about it! We just kept things as much the same as possible, lots and lots of extra cuddles too and he's through the worst. Day sleeps are still a bit of a struggle sometimes... and there's my cue now!! Gotta go, GL

I just wanted to say that we had heaps of sleep issues that started around the 4 month mark when we stopped wrapping (he had started rolling onto his tummy and I was worried that he might get stuck). I found that tucking his arms into his sleeping bag (ours have little press studs in the arm hole) helped, but when that failed I would give him a little muslin square, I think sometimes just having something to do with their hands makes a big difference. Even now he still sleeps with his little muslin cloth. I hope this helps, mind you, for us DS's sleep was a real problem from between about 4 months through to 8 months, which coincided with lots of changes, not wrapping, teething, learning to crawl etc.

hi all

Thanks so much for your entries! helps a lot to know that others have been there and gotten through it :) Yeah looks like the wonder weeks or 4 mth sleep regression is definitely what we are dealing with! knowing this makes it a little easier thats for sure.
Great advice from everyone as well, we have given her a muslin to sleep with sometimes but i'm not 100% sure whether it gets her more excited or not, I guess we have to choose either way so we aren't doing different things each evening. Teething-wise she seems to have all the symptoms though she has only just learnt to put things in her mouth and so far can't see or feel any teeth on the way. Will keep a check!
Might try the arms tucking into the bag as well, they do flail around a lot but not sure if its accidental as she seems to want them too now.

Heaven - she goes four hours between the two morning feeds but then about every 2.5 hours or so, i guess she does cluster feed in the evenings as I am always giving her more then but i've found she often throws up a lot when she has extra or bigger feeds so not sure if these are the right thing to do but if she wants it she can have it.
Yeah the patting and shhhing has only just started helping her calm, we find she doesn't really like cuddles as such, just being held over our shoulder or arm and rocked - which we are doing loads now :)

Once again thanks for all your help everyone!

oh and also, ladybirdflies - can you please let me know where to find this sleep site you mention, not sure if I'm being a goose (baby brain!) but I can't find it - thanks!!!

Stephbux - I highly recommend the muslin/'blankie' - DS loves his and can find it easily in the night (it rattles too!) and I've gone in to settle him more than once, only to find him grab blankie, put it over his face and go straight to sleep!

I also find he sleeps better at night when he's had at least a couple of day sleeps so if he's really not wanting to sleep in his cot, I let him sleep in his bouncer. And, he's been particularly clingy - I find it hard to turn off to all the other stuff I think I should be doing (housework etc) but if I just give in and enjoy the fact my son wants to be with me all day, we both have a much happier day and he sleeps a little better too!

He also stays in bed with me after his 5:30am ish feed and now will sleep until at least 7:30am (often 8am), whereas when I was trying to put him back down we'd struggle and he'd be lucky to do another 40 mins (and I'd be wide awake and exhausted by then!). We're also working hard at trying to put him to bed awake (sometimes just barely!) as often as we can and not feeding to sleep (except that 5:30am feed!).

The #1 best thing I found out though, is that DS is just a 'normal' bub, there's nothing wrong with him and lots of others are going through it - very reassuring. Oh, and a friend who's little one is going through the same thing thinks "Oh, he's going through a developmental thing, he's getting ready to do something new he's never done before" and gets excited, waiting to see what he'll be able to do! Nice attitude I think!;)

Hey JLeigh29

thanks for that! I have been trialling a muslin in the cot, it seems to work sometimes but other times I think it gets her too excited. Once she's asleep I sneak it out again. Do you think from 4 months is OK to be using this? and could I just cut up a muslin to a smaller size? :) sorry for all the questions!

:)