"you are just lucky... my milk dried up at 4 weeks! nothing i could do!" VENT

Hi everyone,
First before i upset anyone, I don't know your personal situation and this is not personal!

But Hello?... After the report that a some health professionals what to make formula a prescription item, which i think would be a good step to make it obvious that formula is a REPLACEMENT and needs some control by health professionals, i ve been having lots of discussions about milk never coming in and milk just drying off, plus i've been called lucky more than once for still being able to bf after 8 months.
The comments are that if you run out you couldn't just run down to the supermarket to get some more, just needs planning and i'm not saying you should see a doctor And also I have a friend who's bub is getting special (lactose free) formula from the pharmacy and she just gets a new one when its half empty... we are in the bush so the formula needs a couple of days to get here!

So am I just lucky ... NO! :wall:
I didnt have an easy start neither ... with flat nipples and a baby that was loosing weight the first week, was sleepy and not one bit interested in the boob.
But i trusted the process, had my mum ( who bf four kids for over 12 months each) to call on and the LLL book "the womenly art of breastfeeding" as my companion. but i was amazed when the midwife suggested giving bub some ebm in a bottle ... never heard of nipple confusion ... no a lot never have... the fact that a dummy could be a problem ... which i banned she was supposed to do her sucking pulling out flat nipple...

but I had to do all that myself, reading lots and asking questions... I have the feeling that as the main thing the trust is gone ... because you dont know how many ml bub had, because it takes some pain and knowledge how to deal with it (to get rid of it) ... knowledge how milk is made ... ( and that you cant just run out like the supermarket)

I would so love getting this trust that it works back into the community... no you dont have to be lucky that your milk comes in ... if bub is sucking milk is comin, no milk doesnt just dry up (bub just getting hungrier and is making more milk) and the best thing of all if it all just gets too hard find the most compfy spot it the house take a cuppa and a good book and your bub and feed and feed... oh and sore nipples heal just get back to basics and lanolin :)

Sorry it got a bit long

what do you think?
Sonja

I actually think sometimes milk does dry up for no reason and there are things that happen people can't control, like some people can't get pg with no reason you wouldn't say well if your having sex you can get pg so just get back to basics, breastfeeding as more to it and sometimes it doesn't work, so yes I think I am very lucky to be able to breast feed because I have a few friends that no matter how much they tried they couldn't continue

Point is,

We are loosing trust in ourseleves as women and our ability to feed and satisfy our babys. For some reason we believe a 'professional' that says bubs is 'hungry' and 'needs' formula!

We need EDUCATION while we're pg, so we go into parenting, all bases covered and with full knowlegde and trust in what we're capable of. Also very scary when I have had mothers swear black and blue that ff and bm is all the same. Eduction is the key;)

If mummy 'cant' feed, breastmilk should be sold. If there was enough bm for sale formula wouldn't be needed. Dont tell me thats 'disturbing', like some other moron has.


I do think evey bodys situation is different. But I do think all babies deserve the ultimate and the best, so why not sell/buy bm:) That way if mummy/baby cant BOOBY it, at least they still get the best, even in a bottle....

I'm glad you've had a positive breastfeeding journey. I too had a wonderful experience with my DS who has very recently self weaned.

But I do consider myself lucky. Not every women has the same experience, I imagine reading things like this would make them feel inferior.

Sorry yeah I should have made it clearer that, I'm very grateful, that in our day and age we do have the very safe alternative to breastfeeding and that there is definitely a group of women that either choose to bottle feed or have tried everything and are just at the end of the road and their nerves, I agree that there is not much sense in persisting past this point.
The point i was trying to make is that with formula and a lack of knowledge about bf and support with problems, the impression that successful bf is purely luck seems to becomes the general opinion...
... and to your comment yes it is this basic ... baby sucks on boob enough = milk .... never said it was easy :)

This is my experience of 8 months which weren't always easy ... but totally worth it ...

uumm, I dont think you've worded it quiet like I would of!!!! ;);)

But I do get your point of being told, "Well you had it easy!".. um, hello?? Did I now? Really, and you know this HOW???

It does peeve me to no end... I have struggled to feed 6, yes 6 babies, including almost a year of round the clock pumping, and be told, "Your lucky, its so easy for you" does make my blood boil a little.. I worked BLOODY hard to do it.

But I dont think I agree with the rest of it, sorry....

:

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... and to your comment yes it is this basic ... baby sucks on boob enough = milk .... never said it was easy :)

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I don't agree.

Sonny i can see where your coming from, i am all for BFing and wanting women in the community to trust in their body and realise it is natural and it's NOT easy to BF. and it's totally worth the effort to keep trying to do it. BUT....

In saying that your post did come across a little judgmental and not everyone has the assistance or the strength to push through sore nipples or a bub loosing weight to be able to continue to BF.
Sometimes things are out of our control and we DO NOT get to continue BFing when we wish we could.

DD1 was BF'd until just before 6mths, i had gallstones and required an op as i was in sooo much pain, we tried giving her EBM and she wouldn't take it, we resorted to formula while i was in hosp and on the mend as BFing was very painful at the time.
A week later i was back in hosp for 6 days on IV fluids and on pain killers, i tried expressing to keep up my supply and it didn't work, by the time i got out i literally no had milk.. i tried letting her feed to get my supply going again and it didn't work.. i was shattered and if i had someone tell me back then i should get back to basics, and just try and feed feed feed i would have burst into tears and felt like cr@p.. i did what i thought best for my daughter at the time.

Knowledge is power, we have a wonderful community here on BB to offer us support and ways to get through things, but i don't think telling someone to get back to basics and lanolin is helping the cause, we need to be supportive of each other no matter our choices to BF, FF, co-sleep or CC.
Theres no harm in pointing our opinion forward but every situation is different and there is no easy 'fix' for issues like this.

And you know what i do think your LUCKY and i would be pleased if people in my life saw it that way, a lot of people ask WHY am i still BFing DD2... i consider myself lucky to get that opportunity every day!
It's not easy and if someone says oh you've got it easy i am actually quite happy to say no not really, BFing is hard work but we got there and now i quite enjoy it.

thank you for the support dedicated mum... :) i dont mean to make formula feeding mums feel bad, but do you feel you know the reason why you had to stop breastfeeding and had the support of health professionals that had more to say than just give bub the bottle ...bad luck maybe next time...?
We spend so much time setting up nurseries and picking out names... but there is no real education about breastfeeding ...

And falling pregnant is so much more a combination of lucky incidents, that i wouldnt put this on the same step as breastfeedin...

Honestly as mummys we know that breast milk is best. The thing is, its not always achieveable. With the right education and support then the % of bf bubs would be much higher. Also the alternative is formula atm, hopefully one day there will be enough bm to go around:)

I dont think its as clean cut as you have worded it to be.

But I do believe more needs to be done to up the % of breastfed babies.

Please remember that the OP has posted in the Breastfeeding Problems and Support section of our forum. Responses should therefore be appropriate in terms of breastfeeding support. This is not the place for a breastfeeding vs formula feeding argument. If you wish to start another thread in this vein, please go to a more appropriate section of BB.

Sonya, I agree with you in part. Certainly many women do not receive the right information and/or support to breastfeed, and it is frustrating to hear myths such as milk just drying up being perpetuated. However, I think the situation is more complex than your post suggests. IMO, the issue is more with the system that lets so many mums down, rather than the mums themselves who are trying hard and not getting access to the resources they need to succeed. It is not so much a matter of "sucking it up" but more a matter of having more support and information available for pregnant and breastfeeding mums.

Clearly you have overcome plenty of your own issues, and your hard work has paid off. Good on you for that. But I think there is a luck component in there too. Certainly I overcame my own issues, and I don't undervalue the contribution of my own hardwork to my breastfeeding success. However I certainly was lucky that I came across the right resources at the right time. I can definitely see why so many reason are unable to continue and end up FFing.

Sorry for posting this in the wrong forum ... and sorry for bein upsetting... didnt mean to be!
Guess i was too generalizing...

Sonny, you have posted in exactly the right area and there is no need to apologise for feeling frustrated with what someone has said to you.

Breastfeeding problems and support is about providing support to those mothers for any breastfeeding issues, and being publicly judged is one of them.

I would have found this kind of thing very frustrating when I was going through my first nipple damage issues when my DD was nearly two and bfing. It took months of persistence, well beyond what most people would consider is a necessary age to be bfing, to overcome those issues, and there was no luck involved in our case, unfortunately.

I also had a lot of bad luck when it came to multiple bouts of mastitis for no real reason either. Guess I'm lucky antibiotics are around though. ;)

I have breastfed all three of my kids until between 10months - 1.5yrs. My milk has never come in until at least day 6 after having bubs. Apparently that is unusual. Even the very pro-breastfeeding midwives suggested I might want to stop trying b/f and give f/f a go after my first, because they didn't think it was going to come in. I WAS lucky. Aside from the late arrival of milk and the occaisionally sore nipples, I have never had a problem b/f.

But you know what? I reserve the right to feed my children whatever I WANT to feed them. I chose breastmilk, first and foremost. BUT my kids also had formula. After the first three months I have never been able to express more then a drop. My supply was there, but I just cannot express anything. This means that unless I keep my babies on my 24/7, then they would go hungry. Being a SAHM this is almost the case anyway, but by ruling out formula I would not be able to have ANY ME time.

Breast is best. Yeah OK. BUT Formula isn't chocolate mud cake. If I CHOSE to fed my babies formula, for no better reason then I didn't want to breastfeed (breastfeeding is alot of tiring non-stop work; I don't blame anyone for not wanting to do it!) then that is my choice. Not yours. Not the government. Not anyone else. If I were unable to buy formula and I wished to make that choice; you know what I would do? It wouldn't be breastfeeding. I would feed my babies plain old cows milk, just like my nanna did her babies. Of course it is not anywhere near as good for babies as breastmilk, not even close to formula - but that is the last resort, and it was happening a LONG time before formula was around.

I think the healthcare professionals have a duty to provide information and encourage and support mothers, not dictate choices. Everyone has a reason(s) why the either choose to breastfeed or formula feed. Some of those reasons are going to be flawed, but not all of them. And even those with flawed reasoning are entitled to their choices. IT is called 'free will'. It is a human right. So long as a persons child is being nurished, and is growing strong and healthy and cared for, then no-one has the right to imposed their beliefs and values about how a child should be raised on another.

You do have a right to be annoyed with others passing judgement on you that it must have been 'easy'. But you are being just as judgemental is saying that just because most women CAN breastfeed (and I beleive this too) that means they SHOULD breastfeed. You have made your decision - obviously you feel it is the best decision. But that doesn't mean it is the Right decision for everyone.

Look, you obviously have passion and believe in breastfeeding! Thats awesome! But to get your message accross and maybe even potentially help someone else, just watch how you word it;)

It can make or break what your message is. And sometimes instead of seeing an intelligent and passionate woman speaking about her belief, people just see a 'another aknow it all', shut down and dont want to have a discussion about something that is quite a big 'issue' atm

To be honest I find a previous post quite upsetting.

To say that lack of education is "generalising" I just dont think is true.

There is a MASSIVE lack of education and help available.. MASSIVE.

Isnt that what we have ALL been saying?
More help?
More Lc's?
Better education?


But now thats not true?? I dont understand??


eta.. previous post gone, now I look like an idiot!!!! ;)

I've been able to bf, but it's been an incredible amount of hard work - and other ladies I know who have wored JUST as hard as me have not been able to produce enough milk for their little ones, and so have either done various combinations of BF, EBM and FF.

In fact, from my mothers group (or 14 mums and 1 dad) I am the *only*one still breastfeeding - some by choice, one because of tongue tie and then nipple rejection, and the rest because they just haven't had enough milk.

And I cannot possibly judge them at all, because if I knew I was doing anything I could do, and my DS still wasn't getting enough to keep him healthy, I would absolutely be looking for more options.

a longish example:

One good friend of mine was demand bf, and her DD was losing weight consistently, and the Drs, midwives etc encouraged her to express between feeds, but still not enough milk (expressing for up to an hour was producing 5-15ml, by which time her DD was hungry again) and demand feeding up to 15 times per day ...

The Drs ended up recommending that my friend do FF "top ups" but she refused, because other women in her life were very judgmental about FF, or using EBM from other mothers, etc, and had her convinced that if she just tried harder, she would get there.

A few times, I said to her that (while I also wanted - and plan - to exclusively BF for the first six months) if I was in her shoes and my baby was still losing weight after a week or so, I think I would do what the Dr said, and do the formula top ups. It wouldn't be my preference, but I don't think I personally could bear to see my LO losing weight when I knew I was already doing everything "right".

She agreed with me, but there were more (and louder) opinions coming from elsewhere, which blasted her into believing that not enough milk was still much preferable to introducing foods other than BM.

By week 9, they finally were in a routine, and her DD was bf, but was terribly underweight, and then had attachment issues and soon after got separation anxiety, because she was not used to being with anyone other than my friend, because they'd spent basically 9 weeks trying to feed ... she would even scream herself blue in the face if left alone with her father.

By week 10, her weight and lethargy was so terrible that my friend's DH put his foot down, and so they started feeding her with formula as well as BF (which was another horrible stage, trying to get her used to both nipple and bottle).

Their Dr has levelled with them, saying that it's unclear what (if any) long term damage may have been suffered by her DD due to not having enough to eat in those first weeks, and the negative effects might not be known for several months yet - leading to my friend having even more guilt, regret, recriminations from friends and family, etc.

Now my friend was absolutely doing what she thought was best - based on unhelpful, critical and/or ignorant "advice" of others.

I just wonder how different the relationship between my friend, her DH and her DD might be (and their current state of mind and emotions, as my poor friend now has suspected PND) if instead of criticism and judgment, she had a lot of lovely women around her cheering her on to do her best, and encouraging to do whatever her baby needed, when she was in such a tough position.

Having never walked in her shoes, why would I dare judge her, instead of crying with her, hugging her, and offering help?

and the point ...

I'm just me, and I only know what I went through, and what I had to do - and what did and didn't work. And I'm incredibly grateful that it did work for me. But I've seen first hand that it's not like that for everyone.

So ... while I don't agree with a lot of your comments, sonny, I hope this thread invites others to be grateful for what they have, and encourage others who have had a different journey.

Dear Jennifer,
is it at all possible to move this post to a more appropriate forum?

I'm reading your stories with great interest and notice that I obviously didnt manage to get my point across very well.:shakehead:
I'm not ignorant, I know that breastfeeding is hard, for some more than others and for some it is not working at all. But what I'm trying to say is that a far Bigger percentage of women could breastfeed if the support, knowledge and trust was better.

So I just wish that the positive stories, the getting over the problems are becoming more in the future.
That women can do what the want to do with support!

Closing this thread as per OP's request to move discussion.