I need some help and suggestions with 3yr old....

HELP.

I am feeling so deflated and the thoughts of "where did I go wrong" are constantly going around my head.

We are having some issues with DD who is nearly 3 1/2yrs old.
We have tried a multitude of things,
time out
praise
time in with us
going to her room
smacking :(
rewards charts
talking about behaviours we expect prior to them happening

and nothing seems to work. Today we went to look at new child care centres and she refused to get off the swing and basically just says NO.
She refused to say good bye to the lady at the centre or say hello (SO embarrassing :()
She will yell while I am on the phone in the car or at home because she wants attention.

I know alot of this is age based developmental pushing the buttons but I just don't know where to go next. Discussing things with her and explaining why it is nice to say sorry/hello/goodybe doesn't seem to have any effect. :(

Please send me some reassurance this will pass or some ideas of how to handle this challenging behaviour because I am tearing my hair out and hating the way I am yelling and parenting right now.

ETA: She is generally the most gorgeous little girl, amazing imagination and plays really well with James and by herself, but it's just when she digs her heels in on stuff like this that I don't know what to do. :(

:hug: 3 is a frustrating age!!!

We went through a very similar thing with ds1. I ended up doing a parenting course, Behaviour Magic 123. Not sure if it's Australia wide but I found it fantastic. They focussed more on emotion control rather than telling the kids off.

Eg:
They do something you don't want them to, count to 1. Then stop. Give them the chance to rectify the situation.
Ask them again. Give a few seconds for them to follow the instructions. If still no, then count to 2.
Repeat step above but count 3.
Once you get to 3 it's time out.

The first day was hard, ds1 ended up in time out about 15times! But he got it. Time out can be anywhere, it was out the front of Glora Jeans one day! Some times he only made it out of time out for about 2mins before going back again!

Once the time out has finished go to them, and keep it quite matter of fact. "you can come out now" and that's it. There's no big deal about the behaviour, no re-hash of events. The time has passed, they have moved on and so should you. They are only little people who in the big scheme of things are very new to the world.

We had problems with him not following instructions and screaming at me. I mean as loud as you can, as angry as you can, screaming at me! Once he realised it wasn't going to get a reaction out of me, I was only going to count as calmly as I could then he was going to be removed from the situation it stopped.

This phase will pass, you can get through it and your dd loves you dearly.

Thanks for your reply.:hug: What do you do when they won't go to time out though? or you have to physically put them there and they flail around and hit and scream and then when they are there she just sits and cries wanting a hug the whole time ( I can't not hug when she's like that and have to hug her)???

:hug: Oh hun I hear you.
I have found that I have to have a day with just DS1 and myself and make him number one since Ds2 came along.
But really dont have any advice! Good luck hun! :hug: xx

:hug: I don't have a 3 year old, but I am hearing your anguish. It sounds like you're struggling with your own expectations too.

I think the only thing that kids really understand is who is in control. If you're yelling etc, then you're clearly not in control. That idea of 123 Magic sounds like it plays on the idea of calmness, and maintaining composure...NOT easy when you have a serious public tantrum or one child is hurting another.

I am at the start of all this toddler assertiveness, so i feel a bit useless...but just know you're not alone and you're doing the best job you can. :hug: Have a bubble bath or something tonight to unwind...

I am going through the same thing. I have worked out triggers for us are being tired, hungry and the biggest one was that she was having weak almost completely watered down and it still sets her right off.

As for strategies we try the talking and time out then if that doesn't work we ignore her until we can talk and explain the boundaries, not good when it happens at midnight over wanting milk like last night.

My boy has just turned 3 and we are just coming out the other side of this. It drove me nuts and I tried everything. Some days I felt like all I did was yell and I didn't want to be that kind of mum. What worked? Nothing really, TBH it was just the passage of time. Be consistent but also choose your battles. Often if he was just getting out if control I'd just defuse the situation by pulling a funny face or laughing. Sure probably not the best solution but it stopped me wanting to explode.

It will pass, hang in there.

definatly try 1-2-3 magic you can borrow the book or better still the DVD from the library, we do it with DD1

We count to 3 and sit on the naughty step for about a minute, it works brilliantly. We take her and sit her down and explain why she has to sit on the naughty step in a couple of words (usually for not listening!) and then move away and do something else so she can hear us but not see us. The naughty step can be anywhere, its just a name for sitting down in a quiet spot. When her time is up we explain again while she is sitting there and then we do a kiss, cuddle and forget about it. Some days i spend what feels like ALL DAY counting! But, she very rarely actually sits on it anymore and i only have to count to 1. People are often amazed at how quickly i can get her to stop doing what she is doing, and its so simple that DF actually does it too (amazing feat really, as he never agrees with me on anything!). She knows that if she gets off the naughty step then she goes without her 'armie' that night (she plays with my arm to go to sleep, and is her most valued thing at the moment). As for actually getting her there, yes, sometimes i do have to put her there, and sometimes she does cry about it. But, do you want 1 minute of anguish and not hugging her and holding her, or do you want whole days were you feel like all you do is yell and yell at her? When the minute is up then you go and give her a big cuddle and you can both forget about it and let go of the bad feelings.

I think the biggest key has been remaining consistent, and like BR i do my best to recognise if the behaviour is from tiredness, boredom or hunger first. Good luck, i know how hard it can be with kids this age!

Oh Tan sweety it's these damn May babies!!! DD is exactly the same. I could have written your post word for word. Just the other day I was in tears sobbing about the type of mum I am being. I absolutely hated it and hated the way I was talking to DD. I'm a horrible mum and if Olivia won't go to time out I put her there. She does the same as Iz and throws a tantrum/cries/wants a cuddle but I stick to my guns and make her sit there for the three mintues.
I'm so sorry but I'm of no help with suggestions as I'm as lost as you are. I am going to look into the Magic 123.

PS - you need to change your ticker because there is no way our little girls are four soon!!!!

I hear you hun! DD does very similar.

Firstly with the refusing to get off the swing etc. When DD does that I just walk off lol! Maybe not the best approach but it works. I only have to turn my back and take two steps before she comes yelling 'wait mum I'm coming'. Someone will probably tell me that is negligent but meh, its not like I'd really leave her ;) It is just an attention thing to her and when she realises she's not going to get my attention then she quickly does as she's told.

She also went through a phase of not saying 'hello/goodbye' (mostly to my parents) and also completely ignoring people when they came over. OMG she can act like a right royal biatch when she wants to! I have sat her down a few times and explained how her behaviour makes other people feel (ie Grandma is sad and she might go home and cry because you didn't say goodbye etc). It did seem to help and although she still does it sometimes, her behaviour in this regard has improved a lot.

She doesn't do the screaming/yelling in the car etc so can't help with that except to say that this will pass, this will pass, this will pass :pray:

The 1-2-3 magic sounds interesting and I've been meaning to check it out.

Just want to say that I have a 3yo and she's very similar. Delightful sometimes and downright frustrating at others.
I don't like the kind of parent I am at times either, but I think it helps when my 'well' is not empty... KWIM? I think how I respond to a situation is very much about me rather than her. She is the same mischievous little bugger day to day, some days I chuckle and think, 'golly, what a minx!' others I tear my hair out and wish she was someone different :( So I really need to make sure I get time to replenish whatever it is that I need to keep me positive. Often I need to demand that (from DH). It pays off.
I struggle with her interactions with her sister - she is too overzealous most of the time, and this is my particular battle. I tend not to worry about saying hello and goodbye (even though it's embarrassing when they don't, IMO at three, social situations like that can still be a little beyond their grasp... saying 'goodbye' means that something fun is going to end. Kind of understandable to refuse to assent to that!)
I don't have a failsafe method. Bribery usually works, or distraction, withdrawing attention. Not particularly 'gentle' methods but they are all I have in my limited toolbox.
I am really hoping it's a phase. I am trying to enjoy the good stuff as much as I can.
I hope you find some sort of resolution soon. xx

'No' VERY firmly works here. Quite often needs to be repeated until she realises we're serious, but it does work. The other day I said 'no' so loudly I scared her and made her cry - she was about to investigate an open bottle of turps while I was siliconing in the bathroom :o

That said, we don't have any major issues here, Miss-almost-3 is just in an extremely independant stage where she has to do everything by herself, and thus is more likely to tell *us* 'NO, I do it myself'. Today she took a poop in the potty to tip into the toilet, got onto the change table to wipe her own bottom, and the only thing I was allowed to do was rinse the potty and press the flush button. When she is strong enough to turn on the taps and press the button I'm going to be redundant ...

We get most of our tantrums when she argues with her big sister.

I hear ya. I have one determined little girl who thinks she's King of the Castle. The other day she stood in the middle of the zebra crossing with her hand up at the cars shouting "stop". Thinks she's invincible.

I can't do time out. She simply wouldn't go and because of my dodgy pelvis, I can't lift her and force her to go. Nor can I carry her out of the playground when she refuses to go. I would if I could.

So what works? Leave now and you'll get a spoonful of ice cream when you get home. If you don't leave now, I'm putting your bike in the shed. Those two absolutely work.

I've also stopped trying so hard to negotiate. I think I was trying to be too gentle. One day at the playground there was a mum who had three young kids and she was just very matter of fact and it was absolutely clear who was in charge. So I often think of her and try to adopt the same no-nonsense voice and say, "come on, we're going." Not so much faffing about and trying to persuade IYKWIM.

I have noticed that DD has been slowly getting better so I live in hope :)

Thanks for your replies everyone. I have placed a hold for 123 magic at my local library. In the meantime I am finding list of ways to praise, picking my battles and going back to giving her 2 choices with a positive outcome for me. Seems to be working most of the time and now that its the weekend I should be able to rest up and kick this cough. Definitely all related to how tired I am right now as well. Thanks again xox

Tan - after a particually difficult time with DS, I sat down and wrote a list of things he needed to do and behave. It was more out of frustration and a need to see for myself what was going on but turned into a list for DS. I wrote it in simple dot points - things like 'Eating your breakfast/lunch/dinner" "Helping tidy up your toys" to "Talking politely" and "Listening when Mummy/Daddy talk to you" and then the biggies "No spitting" (yes, I don't know where he picked it up from!) etc. He absolutely loves it, surprisingly and we've seen a big turn around in his behaviour. I started out by reading it to him a few times and having a few consequences at the bottom - such as not getting to go to the park or going to his bedroom if he didn't behave. He often asks to have 'his list' read to him and he will really proudly say "I don't do that anymore" - spitting (hooray!) or "I can do that all by myself" - going to the potty and wearing knickers etc. He'll have occasional time where he will act up but I find asking "Is that on your list of things not to do?" will often snap him out of it.

I tried reward charts with him but they never worked. He is a cluely little thing and often worked out how to get the reward and still continue the bad behaviour soon afterwards. I have found - for him anyway - that the clear list of inappropiate behaviours and the possible consequences is a better deterrent for him. DH likes it because he doesn't believe in being rewarded 'for being good'. It should be something that is natural. (Don't get me started on the discussions we had about the fact that DS is only 3 but I do see his point). The list also worked with DS because he is the type of child who questions everything and his eyes the list gives a bit of meaning to everything, rather than just being told "Don't do that" if that makes sense.

Good luck with everything!

that's great mrscricket! I might try that too.

I think whatever you do, stick to it - and make sure your DH does too so your DD doesn't get mixed messages.

I offer praise (and get DH to) at every chance and watch for triggers (like hunger, tiredness etc) and curtail them before they really kick in ;).

Good luck hun!

123 Magic and a List. (think the list will really work with Charlotte)

Hazzah! I have some hope! Thanks for posting this thread and Tanstar - EXACTLY what I needed to read today :)